test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Official Dilithium Mine Feedback Thread
salamiinferno
Member Posts: 159 Cryptic Developer
The dilithium mine is up and available for testing! Projects have been tweaked for the test server so they only take three seconds to complete to speed up testing.
Leave feedback about progression, unlocks, rewards, bugs, anything!
Leave feedback about progression, unlocks, rewards, bugs, anything!
Post edited by salamiinferno on
0
Comments
Raptr profile
Other than that, love the Mine so far.
The discounts given by this holding are beyond hideous Salami. With the current numbers, a fleet is going to have to build an entire T5 starbase, an full Embassy and another 3-4 holdings priced identically to an Embassy just to recoup the investment they made on the dilithium mine.
How exactly is adding something that actually worsens the starbase grind the "significant improvement" to fleet progression that Stahl has been harping on for months?
I second this question.
For instance:
Unless you patched it since last night, there is no rich dilithium vain mining option that I can see. Where should I be looking for this, or is it not patched yet?
Is it working as intended (not joking this time) that the doff dilithium and EC missions for miner doffs only have one version each, and that version depends on what tier you are one, eg, if you are one tier 1, you only get the tier 1 version, and if you are on tier 3, you only get the tier 3 version? Also, while I wouldn't object to more, 500 dilithium and 33,000 EC at top level for a 20 hour cooldown is probably pretty good.
The top level is really pretty, but is there any point to it? I noticed consoles, but nothing seemed hooked up.
The "death line" for going outside doesn't seem lined up exastly with the forcefield graphic. Actually I think this should stay as is, since it gives you a bit of margin for error.
FYI, doff mining missions are from the Reman on the main floor of the mine, he's a corner near the door outside. He is not the one right at the door to outside.
Nouveau riche LTS member
I am waiting for the rich dilithium vain daily to come out before I hop on this bandwagon. But out of curiousity, what do the numbers say if every day, everyone could earn 5000 dilithium from that mission, for minimal work. Would that plus the discount add up to something useful?
Nouveau riche LTS member
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QFT.
Perhaps the total can be upped to 15-20% for getting through all 3 tiers. Perhaps each tier needs to be 5% as stated here.
But if the numbers show you'd need a completely new set of holdings just to break even, it's not a discount in the end.
Assuming the base project costs for the Dilithium mine stays the same, we would need about a 8%/16%/24% Discount to make an entirely fresh Starbase + Embassy recoup the investment into the mine.
I think a 10%/20%/30% Discount would be nice, healthy, round choice of percentages. It would be nice if those percentages also applied to the Dil Stores (though, Cryptic could still keep the personal store discounts to increaments of 3% if they wanted to; Its the fleet holdings that need massive discounts to be worth the investments).
EDIT: My Own Personal feedback.
7,500 Fleet Credits for a Green Doff, 25,000 FC for a blue Doff, and 125,000 FC for a purple Doff is beyond ridiculous. They're just Single Doffs, in a sea of at least 100. They cost a whole heck of a lot more than they are worth. I think 5,000 , 10,000 , and 20,000 are more reasonable prices.
My math brought the total to complete the mine to 4.5 million or so dilith. That equates to needing a 17% discount, give or take a percent depending on rounding, to break even from a blank fleet holding slate (which I have to stress is absolutely *not* the norm).
That's just breaking even. Not making things easier.
EDIT: Nevermind, I see now the Dil Mine upgrades themselves don't cost Dil. Then yes, at current rates, the 3/6/9 % discounts are recoup investments on an entirely fresh Starbase and Embassy. So 5/10/15 % sounds reasonable.
A 9% discount nets a savings of roughly 2.6 million dilith. You're still losing 1.9 million dilith at that pricing. 15% nets a savings of 4.3 million. That's still a loss.
Agreed. Stahl has said in several interviews that starbase progression would be made easier for small fleets, then said that change would come with this holding. It doesn't seem to me that this holding helps small fleets at all.
I agree, the discount should be at least 15%, if not more. Also I think dilithium costs for the following projects should be removed:
Here is my feedback:
The discount really isn't a discount, especially at this stage in the game. This is a discount in wolf's clothing.
I'm not sure if you guys are intentionally trying to build a "noob" trap with this angle, or if you are simply so focused on whatever data/spreadsheets you have that tell you this makes sense.
We're all going to be grinding our little faces off for the gear anyway, but if this is the "compromise" for smaller fleets and is actually intended to help them.
Either
A: The discount is too small for where most fleets are now to have any meaning.
B: You have a bunch of future addons planned makes this discount both a blessing and a curse.
The art of the mine itself looks great.
The DOFFs, especially the higher tier ones, seem exorbitantly priced.
Really, 125,000 fleet credits for 1 purple DOFF + Dilithium on top of that?
Yeah, I just don't get the rationale here.
Of course, if all dilithium costs were removed from the mine, and not replaced with something else, then even 9% is good, since you didn't spend anything getting it. But if they do that, it means that Cryptic can't charge us for it.
Nouveau riche LTS member
QFT again.
The point is to build up a Dilithium Mine. If we use Dilithium to build it...what's the point of a Dilithium Mine?
Probably something similar here: the Dilithilum mine itself requires Dilithium to build/maintain the equipment that mines it in the first place, not to mention the refining process.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I'm really looking forward to reading the Dev Blog about the Mine. I hope it explains the thinking behind some of the mine features. As others have said, this "next holding" was supposed to be relief for smaller fleets, and the existing discounts don't seem to be fulfilling that "promise" when compared to the investment required to build the mine.
That being said, there are other things to consider besides just the discount on other fleet holdings and stores. I haven't seen the specific numbers yet, but I understand the mine will allow players to ("easily") earn extra ore and refine more than 8k dil per day.
Just making-up the numbers to make the point: Say you're fleet members are able to make/donate 10% more refined dilithium per day, then that 9% discount is closer to having a 19% discount. That beats the break-even point, I think.
Then there's also the freedom for players to use that extra Dil in-pocket for all sorts of other things in the game (including Zen). Not to mention access to special Warp Cores, Consoles, DOffs, etc.
Yes, there's more grind. No question. The whole point of the Fleet (and Rep) systems are to keep players playing. Getting players in game, every day. Playing players are more likely to spend money. They are trying to make money. Grind ain't going away.
So my pre-blog take on things is that they are trying to meet "near the middle" (closer to their side, naturally). They'll grant access to a flat-out discount (ie them coming to you), and they'll also grant access to a method to make more currency (you coming to them). Sort of a "God Helps Those Who Help Themselves" type of thing.
Still, I hate the 3/6/9% discount. I'd rather 5/10/15%. Not only is it higher, it makes for easier to read/calculate numbers post-discount.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Accelerating the payment of a cost doesn't make that cost cheaper.
I need $200 to buy a widget, and can set aside $20 a week, I'll get that widget in 10 weeks. If I can set aside $25 a week, I get it in 8 weeks.
Do I still have to work for the widget? Yes, but there's something to be said in getting to enjoy it two weeks earlier.
Part of the Fleet-System complaints were not just the costs, but also the time it took to accumulate that payment.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
And if Cryptic were actually serious about addressing those complaints they would adjust the costs and time-gates directly, not hide behind a "discount" that is anything but.
However, I'm not sure how this brings small fleets more in-line with large fleets. Won't large fleets still have the advantage because they can still level up their mines faster?
Raptr profile
Perhaps all the discounts should be 5/10/15 or 10/20/30.
Alas, the truth is they want to make money. Lots of it. Enough to pay the bills and have plenty left over so their execs and stockholders can swim in heaping piles of gold dubloons, Scrooge McDuck-style.
:rolleyes:
It's all free to play, but nothing is given away. You have to grind for it. I don't really have any consolation to offer. It's the nature of the Beast. You can play all the great story missions with common-level gear, ships, etc. No cost. Log-in. Play. Enjoy.
You wanna fly the latest sparkly pimped-out ride. Ah. That, my friend, is gonna cost ya.
Now quit yet yappin' and dance monkey, dance!
:P
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Hi havelock,
I think this concept is both correct but erroneous at its foundation.
Creating something like a Starbase that requires X, Y, Z inputs to complete to "keep players playing" is fine as a design thought.
The problem is the implementation.
The problem is that you can't just "play the game" and play what you want to play.
You have to play a very limited content set, repeatedly, with content locked rewards as opposed to having these rewards broadly distributed throughout all content in a fair manner.
Where we had all of these currencies removed, to make room for the big (real money connected) dilithium currency - now we have Fleet marks, Doffs, and a host of other inputs on top of that.
Further exasperating this are all of the rep systems that also require their own separate currencies.
So what happens is, players are inundated with "things they must do for reward X" and "things they must do for reward Y" instead of "things they want to do for universally usable reward Z".
That's the real crux of the matter.