I say give this game the Definance treatment, that will end the canon vs non-canon over night. Definance has a game, that is also a scifi show. The events in the show mirror what happens in the game. To a point, but still the two are linked together.
So if CBS really wants to max out STO, they could let someone make a TV show based around events of STO, and we as players would play out major events that happen on TV, and help shape other events that a key markers on the series.
I don't see who this can't work. After all you get everyone on the same page, you can make a great interactive MMO, that is part of Star Trek canon.
Gene Roddenberry never saw one episode of DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise and yet its canon.
Gene Roddenberry lived long enough to see the production of Star Trek VI after that he no longer had any input on the reset of the movies that followed.
For all we know he might not have wanted to take the Next Generation to the big screen he also might not have liked the whole DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise series, he may have gone in a different direction than how it played out, but yet we call DS9 Voyager, and Enterprise canon.
If CBS decides to make another TV series, would that be canon?
And if that new TV series were to implement a more teen faced crew like a good portion of TV series are using right now, would that still be considered canon?
What if the new TV series were to go in a different direction and have let?s say a Jem'hadar as First officer, would that be considered canon?
I say give this game the Definance treatment, that will end the canon vs non-canon over night. Definance has a game, that is also a scifi show. The events in the show mirror what happens in the game. To a point, but still the two are linked together.
So if CBS really wants to max out STO, they could let someone make a TV show based around events of STO, and we as players would play out major events that happen on TV, and help shape other events that a key markers on the series.
I don't see who this can't work. After all you get everyone on the same page, you can make a great interactive MMO, that is part of Star Trek canon.
Problem is the ship already sailed. CBS won't do that. Now if they make a show then they would ask Cryptic to put the show events in the game. Making a show based around the game is backwards. Your example of Defiance does it show and game based on show events which is what Cryptic would have to do.
___________________
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Strict/hard canon is only franchise-produced film works.
Auxiliary canon is franchise-santioned works that do not contradict the strict canon.
Soft canon is any other work that does not contradict strict canon.
Works that are contrary to strict canon and cannot be given a sufficient explanation for canon-conformity are viewed simply as interesting stories.
Many, however, would argue that the multi-verse theory provides a sufficient explanation for all stories, (the TNG/Doctor Who crossover comics for example), to be considered as canon.
As for what CBS considers canon, they did add part of JJ verse to startrek.com which is maintained by CBS and not Paramount. The same part that STO took from it. (Romulus being destroyed and Spock goes to the JJ-verse)
What was shown on the screen too. So yes, Data is still in pieces according to them.
___________________
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Strict/hard canon is only franchise-produced film works.
Auxiliary canon is franchise-santioned works that do not contradict the strict canon.
Soft canon is any other work that does not contradict strict canon.
Works that are contrary to strict canon and cannot be given a sufficient explanation for canon-conformity are viewed simply as interesting stories.
Many, however, would argue that the multi-verse theory provides a sufficient explanation for all stories, (the TNG/Doctor Who crossover comics for example), to be considered as canon.
True. The alternate universe part can open up ideas and stories. In a way, the JJ-verse put that front and center since CBS seems to accept the destruction of Romulus as part of the prime universe.
___________________
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
True. The alternate universe part can open up ideas and stories. In a way, the JJ-verse put that front and center since CBS seems to accept the destruction of Romulus as part of the prime universe.
There are some folks who reject the multi-verse theory even though it is a well established part of Star Trek canon from TOS-Mirror Mirror, TNG-Parallels, and beyond, but the majority of Star Trek fans accept the multi-verse theory which is one interpretation of quantum mechanics based on Einstein's theory of relativity.
(Hard-)Canon = everything that was made for TV / Cinema (yes this includes the JJ Movies!)
Soft-Canon = everything that is a licensed Product, Books, Videogames (STO!), Comics
Fan-Fiction = any fan created content that is not licensed... and not allowed to make money. Like Fan Series (Hidden Frontier, Phase 2, Star Wreck, Of Gods and Men) ...and Foundry.
there are some debatable things, like the Countdown Comics or that Gorn Videogame for the latest movies, they are licensed products and the Authors of the Movies kept an eye out that nothing contradicted each other, so these might as well be Hard-Canon,
BUT they are Soft-Canon because you can't expect every Fan to be aware of Comics or Videogames.
That is Fan Service.
At best you can apply the Extended-Universe rules from Star Wars here = there it is fact unless contradicted by a Movie/Series.
I think Lucas had an eye on it that stuff didn't contradict each other... but i have no idea how things will be now with Disney.
I think the base content of the game can be considered canon, the Romulans dealing with the after effects of Romulus destroying, the ever changing face of the Klingon/Federation Relationships, that sorta thing
However
The stuff we put in, stuff like Jem'Hadar serving on federation/KDF ships and stuff isn't so much
To be honest, I've never understood the obsession on whether or not something is canon. I mean, it's all fiction. None of it is real.
Would CBS saying, "Star Trek Online is now officially canon" somehow make playing the game more fun? What, exactly, does canon do that makes a work of fiction better?
It can't be that it forces a consistent continuity. Every show and movie is canon, yet they only hold to continuity in a very general sense. Events, characters, and even race appearances are constantly changed for no other reason than a bigger budget or to make a story easier to tell.
Personally, I couldn't care less if STO is canon or not because I frankly have no idea what being canon would do to improve the experience of playing STO.
If someone legally slaps the "Star Trek" label on it, and a cash register rings, it's canon.
Including the abomination TRIBBLE pile of Trek out in theatres near you.Even the dumbest novel you ever read with the star trek label is canon. Why? One answer. A wise old Klingon..Ka-Ching.$$:P$$
If someone legally slaps the "Star Trek" label on it, and a cash register rings, it's canon.
Including the abomination TRIBBLE pile of Trek out in theatres near you.Even the dumbest novel you ever read with the star trek label is canon. Why? One answer. A wise old Klingon..Ka-Ching.$$:P$$
Well, to be fair, there are definitions for what's hard canon. From what I understand, it's everything on TV and in the movies. Books aren't included in that.
As I pointed out in my previous post, I personally don't give a flip if a story is "canon" or not as long as it's good, but there are guidelines to what is considered canon, and that guideline isn't simply that it's sold.
Well, to be fair, there are definitions for what's hard canon. From what I understand, it's everything on TV and in the movies. Books aren't included in that.
As I pointed out in my previous post, I personally don't give a flip if a story is "canon" or not as long as it's good, but there are guidelines to what is considered canon, and that guideline isn't simply that it's sold.
Yes, your correct.Books are cheaper than TV shows, or movies, so canon is based on the size of the royalty check.
I will agree with your view,on this, good storytelling may not be "canon" but it's Trek to me.
If you can get Cbs to allow you to create such a large game and if you can get Leonard Nimoy to narrate think it should be canon. Almost all events in the game correlate with fact.
Leonard Nimoy and others have also done audio versions of the pocket books novels that have been published but the novels aren't considred cannon either.
The ultimate canon test would be for CBS to make a movie situated in the 25th century (or after), where iconians and/or elachi are involved.
The problem with that idea is budgetary concerns and whether the studio would back making a TV movie or miniseries (which I hope they DO do). There are a LOT of possibilities for adding a TV movie or Miniseries to the Star Trek franchise. You don't need a full multi-season TV series, or full big-budget movie AT ALL TIMES. And depending on how well the miniseries does, a TV series could spawn off it.
The point is, I nominate "Countdown" for a TV movie or miniseries, as it is already accepted as canon, being the catalyst for the events of the Hobus Supernova, and lead to the beginnings of the JJ-Trek films, as well as STO storylines. From the look of things, Paramount and CBS have accepted it, so we should as well. But I go one step further and feel they should bring the cast (at least ones involved, Nero, Picard, Data, Spock and others) for this missing chunk that totally deserves to have visual backing.
Paid STO subscriber since December 2010, and DJ for mmo-radio
The point is, I nominate "Countdown" for a TV movie or miniseries, as it is already accepted as canon, being the catalyst for the events of the Hobus Supernova, and lead to the beginnings of the JJ-Trek films, as well as STO storylines.
I'm hoping whoever gets handed the prime universe next has the sense to retcon Hobus into a more localized event.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I'd say the events happening in the game are cannon worthy, but as for the actions taken by us no. They might make a legendary capt of what we do in game but that will be reflected by being his actions.
I've never understood this argument for canoninity. I'm not arguing that STO is canon, but being made by fans certainly isn't what determines this. If CBS made a new ST Series today, you can bet your life there'd be fans involved in it's production. Even on TNG, Whoopi was on the show because she was a fan of TOS.
And by that logic, the JJ movies ARE canon, because JJ isn't a ST fan?
How I break things down:
Core Canon = Television and Movies.
Soft Canon = Novels.
Extremely Soft Canon = Comic books and video games.
When it comes to comic books and video games, the events that take place within them gets overwritten by core canon elements. Once someone sees the potential in creating "Star Trek: The Third Generation", series that takes place a few hundred years after "Deep Space Nine", the events in "Star Trek: Online" will be thrown out the door. CBS will eventually start a new "Star Trek" series from scratch, and the best way to do it is to move forward in time.
Its just a mater of getting a new visionary team together.
JJTrek is based upon events that take place in a mirror universe, so it 'currently' has no bearing on prime universe Trek. At the end of the three to four part series, I have a funny feeling Paramount/CBS will loop things back. Its financial suicide to walk away from 500+ episodes, five television series, and 12 core movies.
Even though JJTrek has made roughly $500 million dollars, the Prime Universe is still making around $20 to $40 billion dollars a year. You do not walk away from a $20 to $40 billion dollar gold mine. CBS stopped JJ from taking over the whole franchise, for they still see massive potential in the main storyline.
And by that logic, the JJ movies ARE canon, because JJ isn't a ST fan?
The JJ movies aren't canon because they're made by a self absorbed, egotistical Star WARS fan who has leveraged his position in hollywood to ***** out the Star Trek franchise. His goal is to make some easy money from the average action movie goer while taking a dump all over the existing characters from the TOS era... just because he can.
The JJ movies aren't canon because they're made by a self absorbed, egotistical Star WARS fan who has leveraged his position in hollywood to ***** out the Star Trek franchise. His goal is to make some easy money from the average action movie goer while taking a dump all over the existing characters from the TOS era... just because he can.
That is your opinion, so does it have any bearing on whether CBS says what is or is not canon, that is a no. However, you can make whatever is canon in your own personal view of Star Trek.
I, personally, do not adhere the canon policy, and so STO is canon for me.
In most cases it is canon the thing I think that is the problem some people don't understand that took some used to over time is the licensing. Things like areas of trek that were rarely seen or just talked about there is not much licensing or any of those areas so that is kind of why the game is getting heavy on borg, tholians, and iconians(made up agents which if there was a series most likely agents of the iconians would just be made up of some new enemy anyways so no harm there).
Take it for what it is and enjoy it this game almost has nothing left for me to complain about except for some torpedo and klingon ship issues everything is getting better.
The JJ movies aren't canon because they're made by a self absorbed, egotistical Star WARS fan who has leveraged his position in hollywood to ***** out the Star Trek franchise. His goal is to make some easy money from the average action movie goer while taking a dump all over the existing characters from the TOS era... just because he can.
Nicholas Meyer wasn't a fan of Star Trek at all. Yet his movies are canon.
uh, the movies are all canon. Not part of it. CBS and Paramount have both stated this many times.
All the movies are canon, however most of the events in the 2009 and 2013 movies take place in an alternate timeline, one that STO is not in. So while all of the events of the new movies are canon, the only parts that affects STO in the Prime Universe is the supernova that destroyed Romulus and the fact that both Spock and Nero disappeared and (from our perspective) were never heard from again. Cryptic has taken that Supernova and the bit from the comics about how the Narada was modified with Borg tech weaved some of their plotlines around it. But things like the destruction of Vulcan never happened in our timeline.
That's how they can be both canon and irrelevant at the same time.
Comments
So if CBS really wants to max out STO, they could let someone make a TV show based around events of STO, and we as players would play out major events that happen on TV, and help shape other events that a key markers on the series.
I don't see who this can't work. After all you get everyone on the same page, you can make a great interactive MMO, that is part of Star Trek canon.
Gene Roddenberry never saw one episode of DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise and yet its canon.
Gene Roddenberry lived long enough to see the production of Star Trek VI after that he no longer had any input on the reset of the movies that followed.
For all we know he might not have wanted to take the Next Generation to the big screen he also might not have liked the whole DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise series, he may have gone in a different direction than how it played out, but yet we call DS9 Voyager, and Enterprise canon.
If CBS decides to make another TV series, would that be canon?
And if that new TV series were to implement a more teen faced crew like a good portion of TV series are using right now, would that still be considered canon?
What if the new TV series were to go in a different direction and have let?s say a Jem'hadar as First officer, would that be considered canon?
Problem is the ship already sailed. CBS won't do that. Now if they make a show then they would ask Cryptic to put the show events in the game. Making a show based around the game is backwards. Your example of Defiance does it show and game based on show events which is what Cryptic would have to do.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Auxiliary canon is franchise-santioned works that do not contradict the strict canon.
Soft canon is any other work that does not contradict strict canon.
Works that are contrary to strict canon and cannot be given a sufficient explanation for canon-conformity are viewed simply as interesting stories.
Many, however, would argue that the multi-verse theory provides a sufficient explanation for all stories, (the TNG/Doctor Who crossover comics for example), to be considered as canon.
What was shown on the screen too. So yes, Data is still in pieces according to them.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
True. The alternate universe part can open up ideas and stories. In a way, the JJ-verse put that front and center since CBS seems to accept the destruction of Romulus as part of the prime universe.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
There are some folks who reject the multi-verse theory even though it is a well established part of Star Trek canon from TOS-Mirror Mirror, TNG-Parallels, and beyond, but the majority of Star Trek fans accept the multi-verse theory which is one interpretation of quantum mechanics based on Einstein's theory of relativity.
(Hard-)Canon = everything that was made for TV / Cinema (yes this includes the JJ Movies!)
Soft-Canon = everything that is a licensed Product, Books, Videogames (STO!), Comics
Fan-Fiction = any fan created content that is not licensed... and not allowed to make money. Like Fan Series (Hidden Frontier, Phase 2, Star Wreck, Of Gods and Men) ...and Foundry.
there are some debatable things, like the Countdown Comics or that Gorn Videogame for the latest movies, they are licensed products and the Authors of the Movies kept an eye out that nothing contradicted each other, so these might as well be Hard-Canon,
BUT they are Soft-Canon because you can't expect every Fan to be aware of Comics or Videogames.
That is Fan Service.
At best you can apply the Extended-Universe rules from Star Wars here = there it is fact unless contradicted by a Movie/Series.
I think Lucas had an eye on it that stuff didn't contradict each other... but i have no idea how things will be now with Disney.
However
The stuff we put in, stuff like Jem'Hadar serving on federation/KDF ships and stuff isn't so much
if that makes sense
Would CBS saying, "Star Trek Online is now officially canon" somehow make playing the game more fun? What, exactly, does canon do that makes a work of fiction better?
It can't be that it forces a consistent continuity. Every show and movie is canon, yet they only hold to continuity in a very general sense. Events, characters, and even race appearances are constantly changed for no other reason than a bigger budget or to make a story easier to tell.
Personally, I couldn't care less if STO is canon or not because I frankly have no idea what being canon would do to improve the experience of playing STO.
Including the abomination TRIBBLE pile of Trek out in theatres near you.Even the dumbest novel you ever read with the star trek label is canon. Why? One answer. A wise old Klingon..Ka-Ching.$$:P$$
Well, to be fair, there are definitions for what's hard canon. From what I understand, it's everything on TV and in the movies. Books aren't included in that.
As I pointed out in my previous post, I personally don't give a flip if a story is "canon" or not as long as it's good, but there are guidelines to what is considered canon, and that guideline isn't simply that it's sold.
Yes, your correct.Books are cheaper than TV shows, or movies, so canon is based on the size of the royalty check.
I will agree with your view,on this, good storytelling may not be "canon" but it's Trek to me.
Leonard Nimoy and others have also done audio versions of the pocket books novels that have been published but the novels aren't considred cannon either.
The problem with that idea is budgetary concerns and whether the studio would back making a TV movie or miniseries (which I hope they DO do). There are a LOT of possibilities for adding a TV movie or Miniseries to the Star Trek franchise. You don't need a full multi-season TV series, or full big-budget movie AT ALL TIMES. And depending on how well the miniseries does, a TV series could spawn off it.
The point is, I nominate "Countdown" for a TV movie or miniseries, as it is already accepted as canon, being the catalyst for the events of the Hobus Supernova, and lead to the beginnings of the JJ-Trek films, as well as STO storylines. From the look of things, Paramount and CBS have accepted it, so we should as well. But I go one step further and feel they should bring the cast (at least ones involved, Nero, Picard, Data, Spock and others) for this missing chunk that totally deserves to have visual backing.
I'm hoping whoever gets handed the prime universe next has the sense to retcon Hobus into a more localized event.
That would be nice. Nemesis rather clearly showed the danger of letting a fan get to make their fantasies into Canon.
Get thee behind me, Action Hero Super Soldier Commando Picard.
If it takes off from the current movies then it's part of the alternate timeline, which means it doesn't affect anything else in Trek.
Core Canon = Television and Movies.
Soft Canon = Novels.
Extremely Soft Canon = Comic books and video games.
When it comes to comic books and video games, the events that take place within them gets overwritten by core canon elements. Once someone sees the potential in creating "Star Trek: The Third Generation", series that takes place a few hundred years after "Deep Space Nine", the events in "Star Trek: Online" will be thrown out the door. CBS will eventually start a new "Star Trek" series from scratch, and the best way to do it is to move forward in time.
Its just a mater of getting a new visionary team together.
JJTrek is based upon events that take place in a mirror universe, so it 'currently' has no bearing on prime universe Trek. At the end of the three to four part series, I have a funny feeling Paramount/CBS will loop things back. Its financial suicide to walk away from 500+ episodes, five television series, and 12 core movies.
Even though JJTrek has made roughly $500 million dollars, the Prime Universe is still making around $20 to $40 billion dollars a year. You do not walk away from a $20 to $40 billion dollar gold mine. CBS stopped JJ from taking over the whole franchise, for they still see massive potential in the main storyline.
The JJ movies aren't canon because they're made by a self absorbed, egotistical Star WARS fan who has leveraged his position in hollywood to ***** out the Star Trek franchise. His goal is to make some easy money from the average action movie goer while taking a dump all over the existing characters from the TOS era... just because he can.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
That is your opinion, so does it have any bearing on whether CBS says what is or is not canon, that is a no. However, you can make whatever is canon in your own personal view of Star Trek.
I, personally, do not adhere the canon policy, and so STO is canon for me.
Personally I count STO to the somewhat expanded universe,
where ilogical or unpopular coherencies happen.
I spare You the full review
Take it for what it is and enjoy it this game almost has nothing left for me to complain about except for some torpedo and klingon ship issues everything is getting better.
uh, the movies are all canon. Not part of it. CBS and Paramount have both stated this many times.
Nicholas Meyer wasn't a fan of Star Trek at all. Yet his movies are canon.
If that's so, explain this to me ... what's the standard starfleet issue uniform in 2409?
All the movies are canon, however most of the events in the 2009 and 2013 movies take place in an alternate timeline, one that STO is not in. So while all of the events of the new movies are canon, the only parts that affects STO in the Prime Universe is the supernova that destroyed Romulus and the fact that both Spock and Nero disappeared and (from our perspective) were never heard from again. Cryptic has taken that Supernova and the bit from the comics about how the Narada was modified with Borg tech weaved some of their plotlines around it. But things like the destruction of Vulcan never happened in our timeline.
That's how they can be both canon and irrelevant at the same time.