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Did the Borg assimilate V'ger?
caio492
Member Posts: 79 Arc User
Its a little doubt I have,
The omega plasma torpedo is based on salvaged Borg tech, isnt?
So when I launch the High Yield torpedo, it haves the same appearance and sound effect that the ``energy blast`` that V'ger sends in the beginning of TMP.
So did the Borg assimilated V'ger or that is just coincidence?
sorry for the english.
The omega plasma torpedo is based on salvaged Borg tech, isnt?
So when I launch the High Yield torpedo, it haves the same appearance and sound effect that the ``energy blast`` that V'ger sends in the beginning of TMP.
So did the Borg assimilated V'ger or that is just coincidence?
sorry for the english.
Post edited by caio492 on
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In some of my sillier moments, I like to imagine the newly-transcended VejurDecker transwarping back there and informing its second creators, "Guys, guys, check this out! You have got to get some carbon units of your own! It's awesome!" And so the machines did... sort of. (In the worst way.)
My personal take is that the Borg were their own thing, the "machine race" was another, and the Borg assimilated them. Which gave them the tech to make these huge "B'Ger" command ships.
*There's a special edition DVD of The Motion Picture with CGI added to clean up some of the old FX, and add in bits they weren't able to put in the original film, like this ship design. Still isn't available on Blu-Ray, yet, which is disappointing.
Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
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Probably not given the Borg already existed in the 15th century (Voy:"Dragon's Teeth") so there must be more to it that just that...
That was always my interpretation. the machine race wasn't "borg" until they began to fuse with organic life.
Also I never thought the Ilya-unit and the Decker-unit were part of that, it was the machine species members emulating those two.
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i have just couldntr remember the name lol. it been so long. here the video showing the origins of the borg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anMOQ3vTy9k
Borg can time travel so who knows if they went back to thew 15th century for some reason. Besides V'ger does explain a lot about why the borg want perfection as thats what he wanted and technically he assmilated decker believing he was the creator. Anyone else think the TMP storyline was similar to the storyline in the TOs episode with Nomad. Both satelites looking for there creator
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Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
oke so vger started the borg race, but because they needed a single voice he decided to bring in the borg queen,who,after having a voice of her own, broke free of vger,and the borgs followed.
so, i assume they still have the same purpose,learning all whats learneble,and return to its creator,but if vger started the borg,maked the borg queen, then he still is the borg overlord?
cant he somekind of recall them,destroy them because they failed him/walked away from him?
what happend to vger after they walked away from him??
Guess we will never know unless Cryptic do a V'ger storyline
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Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Borg are so powerful that even the Q don't mess with them. I think is a little arrogance of our part to think they are created by us in some way.
We don't know the true origin of the borg, Star Trek Legacy is not cannon, so is just another theory.
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Most likely, humanity itself created the borg.
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So unless you're saying that the Undine could do it, but somehow the pseudo-gods can't, try again.
It is possible, but this thread is not going anywhere, because there is no canonical base to clarify it.
Well... I don't know what you think about it, but Voyeger portrayed the borg to be so less dangerous. Let's think about Wolf 359.
But even in VOY, Q said to his son with jumping eyeballs: "Don't provoke the borg!"
The thing about the Undine is: They are from another reality, another dimension. Even with the borg losing the war... I don't think the borg would take to much time to adapt some technology as counter measure.
Well, aside from speculation, both Undine and Borg are way more powerful than Humans, Vulcans and etc.
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
as for the torpedoes that vaporized ships and stations on contact, it was a gradual destruction, not a full instant wide destruction. just for reference in regard to the omega launcher.
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I honestly think the entire V'ger/borg deal is people making it up as they go. Someone somewhere figured the idea, hey let's make it so the borg were created by man through voyager aka VGER! Yeaaaaah. It'll be like the whole Terminator thing where man creates their own downfall. Everyone loves that kind of sci fi!
The idea of an advanced machine race being too stupid to want to learn everything and it's only when a primitive probe reaches them that they're taught to want to know all there is etc is a bit silly. It'd be like a caveman meets man thing. You can guess that it was the borg but why would they ever care about a primitive probe other than ask where it came from? And would they ever bother fixing it up and sending it on it's merry way? If you guess VGER gave the machines 'the power' and created the borg, the same questions exist.
I personally choose to believe that the Borg are separate, and they assimilated either VGER or the machines that made VGER. Just by listening to the Queens banter about the Borg you can determine that the Borg started out as flesh and blood beings and eventually turned themselves into cyborgs. Cyborgs are different from machines/robots. Plain and simple the Borg at best assimilated VGER or the robots that made it. Anything beyond that is an attempt to rewrite Star Trek lore for plot convenience. Period.
Man being the creators of their own destruction is one of the if not THE oldest fantasy storyline in the book. I don't know why people are so eager to connect the dots between us and Borg. Think of something original for a change instead of old cheap tricks. You know the storyline is coming in STO to connect the dots. I just hope they go with the more logical route that the borg assimilated VGER or the machines that created VGER and designed some of their ships based on what they learned by a pure bread machine race, and not start insulting my intelligence with how our own probe created the damn Borg and we have our selves to blame for all this mess.
V'ger traveled the universe, for example; the event which eventually brought it to the machine planet must have also hurled it into deep time. I always got the impression that it wasn't initially so large, and kept enlarging itself as it traveled; by the time we see it, its so far advanced of the collective that it's like comparing a human to a lemur. If it didn't develop itself during its journey, if it is for the most part what the machine race made it, then the machine race is so far advanced of the Borg that I wouldn't even try to connect the two; maybe in some long-lost alternate timeline Gene had an idea that could have worked, but we're too far past that now.
Personally, I'd prefer separate origins; perhaps the genesis of machine life is as ubiquitous as the genesis of organic life. Trying to connect the two doesn't do justice to either one. Besides, we're led to believe V'ger came at us through Klingon territory, which wouldn't really take it through the delta quadrant.
Oh, I'm aware of the Borg backstory from Legacy; I just try to ignore it as much as I can (along with "Spock's Brain", "Threshold", "Profit and Lace", the fifth movie, and other deeply stupid/embarrassing parts of the franchise's history).
Biological lifeform = infestation.
Those machines would not create organisms from broken parts.
And, the machine that fixed v'ger up didn't bring it into any kind of collective and only by accident was v'ger's programming changed - the exact opposite of the borg.
With v'ger having more than "the energy-generation capacity of even thousands of starships", it's far beyond the borg.
In a theoretic encounter the borg would try to steal technology from v'ger as per usual and v'ger would kill them all even just scanning their ship.
And then they'd run as they did with species 8472.
The v'ger torpedo is in the game because it was cool nothing more.
Feel free to look it up on Memory Alpha.
http://www.chakoteya.net/nextgen/142.htm
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Not really feeling it.
Anyway who decides what is canon since the star trek creator is long dead?
Also feel free to shove an embalming hook up your nose and scramble your forebrain before you do, because that's the only way I can think of to make reading such a moronic pile of dung as the Destiny storyline enjoyable. In fact, many of the recent books in the Novelverse seem to have been written to a similar standard, ie, they're essentially an endless parade of overwrought tropes crudely stapled together with dialogue and plotting that reads like really really bad "young adult" fiction.
One of the best things about STO is, while it's as non-canon as the books, it at least is not the same "strain" of non-canon as the books, and has completely ignored the idiotic origins and eventual fate of the Borg seen in the Destiny and Voyager Relaunch series'.
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Did we launch a probe called Boyager that I didnt hear about? lol :rolleyes:
I thought it would be cool if the Borg assimilated the race that V'ger evolved into shortly after the events in ST:TNG... It would explain the sudden changes in the Borg Look, Technology and psycology.
I also thought it would be awsome if the Origin of the Borg was over in the Gamma Quadrant thousands of years ago, but after a war, one of their seeding ships (early form of assimilation attack) drifts until they reach the Delta Quadrant and begin again!
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That's an excellent point and I mostly agree with it. That said, I do think there are far more parallels between the borg and v'ger than just the genesis of artificial life.
The borg are an arguably perfect blend of organic life and machine. Their purpose in life is to absorb the knowledge and information of other species and incorporate that into their own consciousness.
V'ger became a perfect merging of machine and organic life. The purpose of V'ger was to absorb all the knowledge and information in the universe.
I know that there is some soft canon that completely chronicles the origin of the borg, but I personally think V'ger being the origin of the borg fits beautifully.
It makes sense that an artificial lifeform devoted to absorbing information would - after merging with a human - see that as a perfect evolution. And since V'ger existed on pure logic, that logic would cause V'ger to think the best thing for the universe would be to do this on a universal scale.
I know there are some sci-fi and timeline facts that don't fit, but story-wise, it's almost too serendipitous to ignore. And not because they're both evolved machines.... it's because they're both evolved machines who have merged with organic life and live by a prime directive that says they must absorb information from every society they come across. And all it would take to make them the conquering creatures from TNG would be the absorption of one conquering race.