Where did my First Person Camera Mode go?

alaerick · May 2013

Ok.. I could tollerate the fugly new UI.. but what on earth were you smoking that you got rid of the ability to toggle first person camera mode for both ships and ground? ARE YOU INSANE?? Seriously wtf is wrong with your team that you would actually get rid of an option? I know it didn't save the stupid setting I reported the bug but I wanted you to FIX IT!! NOT GET RID OF IT! Seriously pissed off.

alaerick · May 2013

PS. I hate 3rd person camera games.. you just broke this game for me.

ehlim · May 2013

pwebranflakes wrote:

The deprecated option to Enable Shoulder Camera has been removed.

This quote is from the release note for LoR recently published.
Reading this it looks like the design decision was to put Shoulder Camera in default and not changeble, meaning that players supposedly hated changing to first-person (...?).

Personally, I loved having the option to choose whenever I needed one or the other, and I too would have liked to see a line stating "fixed a bug where the option to enable or disable shoulder camera wouldn't save, reverting to default"

Thank you.

rujoking99 · May 2013

Somebody worked really hard on modeling Romulan butts and they're really intent on you seeing them.

But yeah, FPS mode was really helpful considering I cut my teeth on the original Doom and Quake. Now it just feels like I'm watching somebody else play KOTOR or something, an effect enhanced by the frequent lag spikes that make my character rubber-band around the level.

tpolebreaker · May 2013

Was looking for this yesterday. Why REMOVE an option? Who was it hurting lol...

Irritating.

smoovious · May 2013

alaerick wrote: »

Ok.. I could tollerate the fugly new UI.. but what on earth were you smoking that you got rid of the ability to toggle first person camera mode for both ships and ground? ARE YOU INSANE?? Seriously wtf is wrong with your team that you would actually get rid of an option? I know it didn't save the stupid setting I reported the bug but I wanted you to FIX IT!! NOT GET RID OF IT! Seriously pissed off.

That got killed when they killed the behind-the-head view, forcing that stupid shoulder-cam view on everyone.

-- Smoov

smoovious · May 2013

ehlim wrote: »

This quote is from the release note for LoR recently published.
Reading this it looks like the design decision was to put Shoulder Camera in default and not changeble, meaning that players supposedly hated changing to first-person (...?).

Personally, I loved having the option to choose whenever I needed one or the other, and I too would have liked to see a line stating "fixed a bug where the option to enable or disable shoulder camera wouldn't save, reverting to default"

Thank you.

Ya know, the way they worded that in the changelog, makes it sound like it was the shoulder-cam view that was depreciated and removed. Not the behind-the-head/first-person view that was depreciated and removed.

When you remove an option to enable a feature, that means you no longer have that feature. In this case, the shoulder-cam feature.

When I first read it in the changelog, my first thought was "Yay! No more shoulder-cam!"... then I got into game and beamed down to the academy, to my horror at finding out the reality.

-- Smoov

alaerick · May 2013

smoovious wrote: »

Ya know, the way they worded that in the changelog, makes it sound like it was the shoulder-cam view that was depreciated and removed. Not the behind-the-head/first-person view that was depreciated and removed.

When you remove an option to enable a feature, that means you no longer have that feature. In this case, the shoulder-cam feature.

When I first read it in the changelog, my first thought was "Yay! No more shoulder-cam!"... then I got into game and beamed down to the academy, to my horror at finding out the reality.

-- Smoov

Exactly my reaction. Flying a ship from behind it is like wtf.. where's my cockpit view? I want to FLY the ship not be some weird thing behind it. If I wanted 3rd person flying mode I'd play EVE-O instead.

smoovious · May 2013

Well, flying a ship from behind, is infinitely better than flying (or fighting hand-to-hand) from the side.

-- Smoov

alaerick · May 2013

Huh? FPS view was infinitely better than chase cam. You shot where your camera pointed. You could rotate the camera from the inside to look in any direction like a POV hat in flight sims. Flying from behind is terribad. The camera is always lagging behind where your nose is and your ship is always in the way of your camera

if you use DHCs you'll understand why that's important.

Edit: Oh you mean the over the shoulder vs directly behind.. gotcha.. :P

ursusmorologus · May 2013

Seems like the easiest thing is just a hotkey for toggle FPS... but no they found an easier way that costs even less money, remove the feature

smoovious · May 2013

The feature was working perfectly already. In fact, the non-shoulder-cam view worked even better than the shoulder-cam view, as the non-shoulder-cam view would also let you use your scrollwheel to go in and out of first-person view, for say, sudden hand-to-hand combat.

The _ONLY_ thing that was broken, and the _ONLY_ thing that they had to fix, was the option setting that never stayed where we set it, and stuff like that, is _TRIVIAL_ to do. You could take the absolute worst coder they have on their team, and he can get it fixed within hours, if not minutes.

That was it! That's _ALL_ they had to do. BUT NO!

For SOME totally asinine reason that I can't even begin to fathom, THIS was their SOLUTION!!?!

Seriously... WHAT THE ****!!?

Do they have any idea, just how bad this makes them look?

-- Smoov

jetwtf · May 2013

AO a game that is well over a decade old has both FPS and Behind the head third view. you can toggle them or you can scroll in and out as need be. First person in that game is not even a required feature for combat since combat in that game is auto target and stand in one spot and mash the fire button. But there is the option to do FPS if the player prefers it. STO removing a working feature made the game controls bad, and bad controls make a bad game. It creates a new difficulty that is NOT and I repeat NOT a good difficulty like getting 1 shot killed by a boss special attack or enemy hitpoints are high so it makes it hard. No bad control difficulty just makes the game frustrating to move around in and kills any enjoyment.

Third person over the shoulder has 1 single purpose for third person games. it allows the player to see something to be able to select it such as a counter full of items that can be picked up verses the NPC you want to talk to. It makes it simpler to select the NPC rather than everything else by allowing you to see exactly what you are targeting. and combat is pure auto aim hit the skill buttons with a mouse without needing to move unless something big is in the way.

STO combat is not that. You need to be able to move quickly and precisely quite often unless you enjoy getting knocked down by grenades, stand in the middle of plasma, or get the lame flanking damage. This is not and stand and fire at whatever the auto aim chooses. Thus directly behind cam is preferable becauyse it is much easier to maneuvar in third when the character is centered, and far far better to do so in FPS mode. thats with auto aim turned on!

Now If like me you play FPS games and do not enjoy auto aim then you shut it off altogether, use hotkeys for skills and manualy aim in FPS view. STO had reasonable ground doing that, not the best but not really the worst. Only hassle was taking the time to redo the option every time you loaded a new zone. It was fun, it was doable, It was far and away preferable to over the shoulder can no longer correctly aim garbage forced upon us.

Simply fixing the option so it remains or leave it as it was was the only choice. Instead they created a really bad one and just removed the feature. And it was the only choice because removing a working feature should never be a choice ever.

For the record, the forced upon camera has gotten me killed an everage of 10 times per day because my character gets stuck on something when I am trying to get to cover. When i played "Cutting the Cord" 3 days ago i died 15 times trying to play with over the shoulder. Stairs that require ease of control, and the debris at the end. both sections i kept getting stuck on something and couldnt move unless i went 1 way and that meant i was not paying attention to what I was fighting. Did the same mission the first time in FPS and died 2 times and one of them was my own fault for charging into a crowd of tal shiar. 1 death in FPS mode manual targeting by enemy fire, or 15 in over the shoulder auto aim and manual just made the mission not worth the time and effort.

robow87 · May 2013

......have you tried hitting the "B" key....

alaerick · May 2013

robow87 wrote: »

......have you tried hitting the "B" key....

B key is not the same thing as what we are talking about. That is "AIM" mode. It's not the same at all and it doesn't work in ships.

zing1617 · May 2013

alaerick wrote: »

B key is not the same thing as what we are talking about. That is "AIM" mode. It's not the same at all and it doesn't work in ships.

Actually "B" key is, by default, "Shooter" Mode. The "X" Key (or "middle click") is, by default, "Aim" mode.

~ Zing

alaerick · May 2013

zing1617 wrote: »

Actually "B" key is, by default, "Shooter" Mode. The "X" Key (or "middle click") is, by default, "Aim" mode.

~ Zing

Neither is the key on my setup so forgive me for forgetting the default config. I have it programmed to my g13.

jetwtf · May 2013

robow87 wrote: »

......have you tried hitting the "B" key....

B does not bring up FPS view, nor does it center the character on the screen. Yes I use B in combat, the offset is what gets me killed when my character is constantly running into things and getting stuck, third person POV makes it harder to aim.

Try playing a FPS in an offset third person where it is all manual aim and see how many times you die and how very few kills you get compared to everyone using FPS view. K/D ration would be the opposite of what the lead player gets very easily.

*Edit,

Also third person doesnt help a whole lot in confined areas where the camera is moving all over the place or vibrating like crazy because it cant go anywhere. That gets me killed too.

smoovious · May 2013

@jetwtf

Sounds like they have absolutely no idea what it is we're actually even talking about.

-- Smoov

jetwtf · May 2013

smoovious wrote: »

@jetwtf

Sounds like they have absolutely no idea what it is we're actually even talking about.

-- Smoov

I think some do not and are console players who are quite used to 3rd person over the shoulder view thats becoming mainstream and a real FPS shooters using mouse and keyboard or heaven forbid good old fashioned behind the head 3rd POV seems alien to them like the over the shoulder controls are to me. Yes I can deal with behind the head because i do not have to worry about my characters position in relation to my camera. I just point my characters head at the target as a big crosshair i cannot see through. Not ideal but good enough.

Truly the best games have the best controls suited to them and this game dropped the best and second best for its setup and just went to bad as default. yeah if you are used to bad control setups then you can do good, but get good control and you can excell. Clearly many think they excell.But then again I have played FPS games for near 20 years and vidoe games for 30+ made plenty of content for quite a few games and can cleary see many errors in STO but.. i dont know what i am talking about i suppose. How about you Smoov?

jetwtf · May 2013

Not going to edit because that always gets messed up so another post and not a bump.

If Cryptic and PW want the best RPG for ground? Go with the best to emulate, and NO thats not WOW but Eldar Scrolls and Fallout. The best moneymaker for a new title is an Eldar Scrolls game In RPG land. Yeah it is single player by default but now there is an MMO version. forget WOW forget anything from a console and emulate what Bethesda has done for controls but please please please keep the STO HUD. Bethesda cannot do a HUD thats good lol. tolerable but bad for mouse work. Each Eldar Scroll RPG is a First person Roll Playing Game and the combination just works! combat is FPS if you use arrows, do melee and switch to 3rd person if you feel more comfortable seeing your suroundings. All combat is millions of times better than what was done to STO even if it is repetitive, and STO has way more repeating BS just because of its smaller scale.

As for the space side.. meh i am happy with it but first person view would be good for those that prefer it. I prefer seeing what my ship is doing and play better in third while flying or driving.

sammaelus · May 2013

There was a 1st person mode? Useless in mmo anyway.

Please do complain about any of the plethora of bugs that actually hurt gameplay, not this.

nicha0 · May 2013

smoovious wrote: »

@jetwtf

Sounds like they have absolutely no idea what it is we're actually even talking about.

-- Smoov

I'll willing to bet this is the case more than anything. They thought they were removing a shoulder cam mode because it was no longer needed, but since the devs don't play the game (despite insisting they do) they really had no clue that was how to get first person view (and take nice screen shots)

ursusmorologus · May 2013

jetwtf wrote: »

combat is FPS if you use arrows, do melee and switch to 3rd person if you feel more comfortable seeing your suroundings.

yep, it should be a hot-key toggle

smoovious · May 2013

jetwtf wrote: »

... But then again I have played FPS games for near 20 years and vidoe games for 30+ made plenty of content for quite a few games and can cleary see many errors in STO but.. i dont know what i am talking about i suppose. How about you Smoov?

Well, I don't do FPS games much to begin with, preferring strategy-based games.

The last FPS games I played a lot were Wolfenstein3D, Doom-II(pre-release), and another one near that era who's name I don't remember. I've dabbled with some others here and there briefly but quickly lost interest. Variations on a same theme for the most part, got bored.

I also tend to lean towards driving games, and drive my friends nuts every time configuring whatever game to give me either driver's seat view or front-bumper view, taking the mocking the whole time with a smile, and later calling them tow trucks from the finish line to go pick them up where they crashed.

I can't say I've ever played any game of this type with an over-the-shoulder view. Above-and-behind the head, and first-person, were always the views I've come across, even in some of the walk-thru's I've seen on youtube.

Any time I see an avatar walking next to me (as in the shoulder-cam view) I think that is one of my team, not me, and it constantly throws me off. I just can't play that way. It isn't intuitive. You can't even choose which shoulder to view from, or adjust how tight or loose to the shoulder you want to view from. You have just the one view, one position, locked in, and if you have to creep around some cover from the left to sneak up on your target, oh well, too bad.

-- Smoov

andwynn · May 2013

I could not agree more!! I love the option to go First person! makes me feel more like a part of the game! I wish they would change that! and you are right, they broke it!!

alaerick · May 2013

sammaelus wrote: »

There was a 1st person mode? Useless in mmo anyway.

Please do complain about any of the plethora of bugs that actually hurt gameplay, not this.

Since you didn't even know it was there your opinion is obviously worthless. It was not useless in an MMO that lets you shoot where you point the camera.

And this DID break the gameplay for a lot of people myself included. Please do post in topics that you know something about, not this. :rolleyes:

jetwtf · June 2013

sammaelus wrote: »

There was a 1st person mode? Useless in mmo anyway.

Please do complain about any of the plethora of bugs that actually hurt gameplay, not this.

Useless? Not really. Just because you are used to playing MMO's where you cannot hotkey everything and aiming is actualy not used does not mean it is useless. infact it is very good to have both. swap to third when micromanaging your BOFF's then to first to aim and shoot while using hotkeys for your very few extra skills.

See in this game you have a kit that gives you 4 skills to use in combat, and you have 4 slots for devices. 8 things you can do besides shoot plus the quick and useless melee attack and swap weapons. Standard FPS has the number keys across the top all set to a different function and many of the letter keys also set. In STO even setting a Boff commands you would have what most FPS games do.

Advantage to actualy making the choice on who you are shooting rather than just clicking the shoot button and letting the computer aim and turn you is when 2 enemies are standing side by side you can target and kill 1 while ignoring the other. The computer will switch back and forth between them each shot because 1 will have more health. This makes it where you are killing 2 enemies at the same time getting shot by both the whole time. Choosing who to shoot yourself you make the same amount of shots to kill both but only have them both shooting back half the time. This means the last half you are getting hit less and losing less health. That makes it easier to move to the next target, could be the differance between getting that last shot off or dieing.

Useless it is not, but your comment was.

ursusmorologus wrote: »

yep, it should be a hot-key toggle

Hot key or like it was with a simple scroll in and out using the wheel when you shut Over the shoulder cam off and went to normal third person. scroll all the way in and go to first person, out and you are back in third. Thats standard for allot of games since the wheel is already configured to camera zoom. So 1 more extra zoom in and you go into FPS mode, zoom out and leave FPS and adjust camera distance. Simple and effective at being able to switch between modes rapidly and highly usefull in RPG games.

cybershadow1 · June 2013

i always get pissed off when developers remove functionality. if they want to change things it is alot easier to simple add a toggle button in the menu to enable/disable/switch modes. but it seems like removing legacy code would be alot more difficult and expensive for a company to impliment

alaerick · June 2013

I just simply cannot enjoy playing this game in it's present form. I really hope they are wise and fix this blatant mistake.

jetwtf · June 2013

Tried not using target mode and just mouse click the buttons on the tray... 1 word to describe that. Boring! What a yawn fest that is, not only that but the stupid game decides to shoot at one enemy thats ignoring me and getting handled by the BOFFS and ignore the 2 thats shooting me. 2 easy to kill mobs none the less but together and being ignored could kill me. I dont care if the target has double the hitpoints of all the other mobs, i want to kill off the small stuff then be able to concentrate on the big one without flanking damage or getting overwhelmed by small fire when the big one does decide to pay attention and I get 5 attacking me at once. Not only boring but just plain bad tactics.

Where did my First Person Camera Mode go?

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