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Emergency Power to Engines...
majortiraomega
Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
I doubt anything will come of this thread, but I might as well try posting it here. Perhaps Borticus will see the feedback and consider making some sort of a change.
The huge buff to Emergency Power to Engines from the Legacy of Romulus is a major problem for science vessels. Any escort with two Lt. Engineering slots can run an auxiliary to battery build chaining Emergency Power to Shields I and Emergency Power to Engines I for a 100% uptime. With the new warp cores escorts can now run 125 weapons and 125 shields with no ill effect.
Prior to Legacy of Romulus, a Science vessel could significantly slow down an escort with Chroniton mines/torpedoes, beam target engines, tractor beam II, and Gravity Well III + duty officer proc. If timed right, the science vessel could hit the escort when Attack Pattern Omega was on global cooldown, or subnuke it off when the escort tried to use it.
Now with the RCS turn rate changes, warp cores, and specifically the Emergency Power to Engines change escorts can escape gravity well + tractor beam with ease. On top of that there is even a duty officer from the fleet support duty officer pack that boosts resistance to crowd control with EPtE. The RCS changes provided the highest benefit to escorts, and it's now virtually impossible for a science vessel to swing around to hit an escort with subnuke beam when they are using EPtE and/or APO assuming the pilot is competent. The escort impulse mod allows the ship class to run high impulse strafing runs, rebounding from 11km for another pass. And there is no way for a science vessel to catch them because escorts have a superior impulse mod. On top of all this, escorts now have crippling fire, which procs on all crits rather than just a chance to proc on crits.
To sum it up: Science vessels can't slow escorts with tractor beam because of attack pattern omega immunity, gravity well is useless now because of the new Emergency Power to Engines, subnuke is harder to use because the escort can just run strafing runs behind them/insanely high boosts from RCS in turn rate, hitting the escort with subsystem targetting is now more difficult because crippling fire destroys accuracy. Even if subsystem targeting does land, it has a minimal effect because it is decreased by power insulators to the point where EPtX negates the brunt of the blow.
Legacy of Romulus brought a lot of power creep, but what it did to escorts is over the top. Science vessels lost sensor analysis when Cryptic rolled out the Tier IV Romulan Placate proc and now they lost crowd control with EPtE. There may be another underlying issue here that I am not seeing, but the only way I can see fixing this would be a nerf on Emergency Power to Engines to more reasonable level.
The huge buff to Emergency Power to Engines from the Legacy of Romulus is a major problem for science vessels. Any escort with two Lt. Engineering slots can run an auxiliary to battery build chaining Emergency Power to Shields I and Emergency Power to Engines I for a 100% uptime. With the new warp cores escorts can now run 125 weapons and 125 shields with no ill effect.
Prior to Legacy of Romulus, a Science vessel could significantly slow down an escort with Chroniton mines/torpedoes, beam target engines, tractor beam II, and Gravity Well III + duty officer proc. If timed right, the science vessel could hit the escort when Attack Pattern Omega was on global cooldown, or subnuke it off when the escort tried to use it.
Now with the RCS turn rate changes, warp cores, and specifically the Emergency Power to Engines change escorts can escape gravity well + tractor beam with ease. On top of that there is even a duty officer from the fleet support duty officer pack that boosts resistance to crowd control with EPtE. The RCS changes provided the highest benefit to escorts, and it's now virtually impossible for a science vessel to swing around to hit an escort with subnuke beam when they are using EPtE and/or APO assuming the pilot is competent. The escort impulse mod allows the ship class to run high impulse strafing runs, rebounding from 11km for another pass. And there is no way for a science vessel to catch them because escorts have a superior impulse mod. On top of all this, escorts now have crippling fire, which procs on all crits rather than just a chance to proc on crits.
To sum it up: Science vessels can't slow escorts with tractor beam because of attack pattern omega immunity, gravity well is useless now because of the new Emergency Power to Engines, subnuke is harder to use because the escort can just run strafing runs behind them/insanely high boosts from RCS in turn rate, hitting the escort with subsystem targetting is now more difficult because crippling fire destroys accuracy. Even if subsystem targeting does land, it has a minimal effect because it is decreased by power insulators to the point where EPtX negates the brunt of the blow.
Legacy of Romulus brought a lot of power creep, but what it did to escorts is over the top. Science vessels lost sensor analysis when Cryptic rolled out the Tier IV Romulan Placate proc and now they lost crowd control with EPtE. There may be another underlying issue here that I am not seeing, but the only way I can see fixing this would be a nerf on Emergency Power to Engines to more reasonable level.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Post edited by majortiraomega on
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EPTE isn't the issue... Omega being up 50% of the time thanks to badly designed doffs would be the only possible issue you can point to there.
Frankly Put a RCS unit on your Science ship and you should be able to turn much better then before.
100% uptime one EPTX... isn't in general done with tech doffs on an escort.. Really tech doffs and aux to bat on an escort is pretty major fail. You can achieve 100% uptime with DMG control doffs... however you can do that as well to perhaps ... keep your own EPTS and say EPTW up 100% of the time. If you don't like or use lots of Energy weps you could run EPTA instead, cloak sight bug not withstanding it will give a good boost to any dmg sci skills your running.
How do you figure that?
RCS consoles still multiply off your base turn, they just removed the -3 from the math. Higher base turn ships still get more of a boost than lower turn rate ships.
Its called full Graviton spec + full aux. Enough TB strength right there.
LOL EPTE QQ space must be really effed up to invoke epte QQ!
And to the poster above who really bothers to ever put points in grav gens to spec a tractor beam? I can't see it happening since the escort will evasive out with epte apparently now when his apo is on cd. At the very most perhaps that sci ship should carry 3 mk 12 purple grav gen consoles as an option. That's your 9 in grav gens skill almost. God knows they must be dirt cheap!
Seems that Cruisers could really do this well, as well.
R.I.P
You were always able to evasive out of tractor beams before as well, so I dont see why EptE is such a gamebreaker for it. Not saying TB could get a bit of a buff, but oh well.
I am thinking bop with this setup
next on the problems list : water ...simply because water is wet.
Not so much a gamebreaker but we now have 25 seconds extra of speed boost to evasive out when needed. Yeah the actual engine power boost is the same but the speed boost alone is what is gonna further enhance evasive maneuvers.
Yeah but epte would be useless on a cruiser that lacks the turnrate otherwise they would simply be flying straight out of combat. Either that or cruiser using epte is gonna have to spend lots of time with the throttle and doing "3 point turns" to get around with epte
RCS units now apply almost 3x as much bonus turn to the slowest turners now with changes in LOR.
The skill tree boost from thrusters is also way up.
The slower your ship turn the more bonus you get from any thing that effects turn now.
The fastest turning escorts took a small bump up from the changes... but the slowest turners took a massive boost.
My point is cruisers have the tools now to turn. There really is no excuse. I have never had any issue with any of my cruisers where hitting evasive left me unable to turn. The opposite is true evasive makes it much easier to turn.
Really complaints about escorts going to fast is plain funny. Everyone is going faster now... with all the changes in this expansion.
Its a VERY good thing.. I pvped for an hour last night for the first time in a long time. (that I played that long) Every match was fun... everyone including the cruisers where moving much faster. The battles where ending up all over the map... frankly it was one heck of a lot more fun the it has been in quite awhile.
then why the heck they changed RCS consoles to work better on cruisers?
I think cryptic should remove escorts from game.To much b!tching about them (sometimes I think borgs from stf come on the forums :rolleyes: ) ,to many people trying to turn cruisers into escorts ,at least without escorts ,cruisers will be cruisers .
now that cruisers have more power (warp cores ) and move better people want them slowed down ...fascinating.
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I MUST OWN U WITH MY ENTERPRIZZZZZZE
>_> thats what it really boils down to.
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Or... what really drives him nuts is borg spheres and klingon raptor npcs that run away on him now in STFS and SB24s.
Blaming the evil pvpers often gets things fixed for them right.
Increase torpedo speeds!
Honestly go play with some photons. Best torp in game right now.
My 5 year old said I should shoot red so I put Fleet AP and photons on my double TB MVAM and now I'm thinking I should listen to him more often.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
wut? i dont know about that...
i like photons on battle cruisers, they tend not to have the spike to instantly finish a fight, but their firing rate comes in handy as i smack them up sided the head over and over with DHCS. on escorts i use quantums just in case i can take someone out in 1 pass.
@DevolvedOne
Wisdom from the mouths of innocence.......
R.I.P
Sounds like the problem is with escorts, not necessarily with EPTE.
well, now battle cruisers can speed tank about as well as escorts pre LoR, and any escort can move around as fast or faster then a bug after LoR. and thats with 15 energy to engines, the HUGE speed buff bonus that you can cycle full time is that powerful. it actually goes a long way in allowing horrible turners to work better, for the 3 point turns they can pull off now. using the galaxyX with DHC is nearly viable, at least as viable as the d'deridex
On the topic of RCS, right now I fly the Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit (15 base turn rate) along with a single copy of Attack Pattern Omega I. With Adapted MACO engines and no RCS/buffs, my turn rate is 29.9. Each RCS console gives my ship +6 turn rate. I could run 3 RCS consoles for 44.9 turn rate at the cost of armor/universals, but what would that gain? As an example, the fleet patrol escort running Omega Force engines will have 36 turn rate with no consoles/buffs and +6.4 per RCS console. That escort can also run 3 RCS consoles + 1 neutronium armor for 55.2 turn rate. Attempting to win a turn rate contest against an escort is futile when flying a science vessel.
If it is a fail build, then why have I seen quite a few Steamrunners, Escort carriers, Jem'hadar attack ships, and Bird of Prey(I know technically not an escort) using aux2bat builds? One doesn't need to have a huge number of heals if the enemy can't stay in fire range long enough to hurt you.
I have been giving EPtA some thought, but that requires dropping either Emergency Power to Shields I or Auxiliary to Structural I. Aux2SIF I may not look great on paper, but healing about 20% of my ship hull every 15 seconds is a lifesaver with the currently prevalent shield bypass builds.
I am running an aux warp core, 100 aux power, 6 points in Starship Graviton Generators, the assimilated module (pseudo graviton generator console), and the Adapted MACO deflector. That's more than enough to stop a target. I could run Graviton Generator consoles instead of Particle Genrators, but then my Gravity Wells would be pathetic. If you have a way to freeze someone with tractor beam even when they hit Evasive Maneuvers and Emergency Power to Engines at the same time I am open to suggestions.
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PSW (or any other stun, like a tric torp) can be used to knock out Evasive Maneuvers.
Dealing with EPtE is a little more tricky; outside of the standard subnuke, you might want to try for an engine disable (after they hit EPtE, of course). Given how human boffs don't seem to be appyling subsystem repair boosts any more, viral matrix and/or target engines might be useful here.
Of course, once you've knocked out the Evasives you've taken away most of their additional manueverability. You can probably just follow them under your own power to keep the tractor locked on; their turn rate will be severely diminished so long as you're in range.
why is that?They said they nerfed hull repair and leadership says "+20 subsytem repair" but in reality is nothing even with 5 human boffs...what am I missing?
Gravity anchor
tractor beams
VM 3x doffed
PSW doffed
energy syphon with 3x purple doff disable
chroniton torp spreads
grav wells aftershock doffed
phaser proc
tractor mines (they still exsist?)
danoobs
magnetometric generator
warp plasma
theta vent
nadeon detonator
tholian web
grappler
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Emergency Power to Engines provides a direct +30 impulse speed for 30 seconds. Each Tier up adds +15 more impulse speed. For a point of reference, most escorts have an impulse speed of about 26. An ensign level ability allows any ship in the game to more than double their impulse speed. Under evasive maneuvers a ship running EPtE I will exceed full impulse for 8 seconds. A mere 25-35 second cooldown with the new helmsman trait + conn officers. That's a 100% uptime on double non-full imuplse (56 impulse is about half of full impulse) speeds and about a 25% uptime on speeds exceeding full impulse. If you don't see any problems with that, I don't know what else to say.
I am assuming this is directed to me.
1. First, you can only slot 1 Warp Theorist (tachyon doff) and second, Attack Pattern Omega provides complete immunity.
2. Gravitic Anchor is the Omega Force three piece bonus. I could sacrifice all surviviability and +science bonuses to run an ability to disable turn rate for 10 seconds every 2 minutes.
3. Already using them, the slow isn't very effective when the ship is flying at 50+ base impulse
4. This is a crowd control build, not a shutdown build.
5. Same as 4, if I wanted to build a shutdown build I would have built a shutdown build.
6. This is a crowd control build, not an energy drain build. Also, you can only slot 1 energy siphon duty officer (Warp Theorist)
7. Moderately effective, I already use chroniton mines.
8. Already using this, but escorts can still easily escape it when they use EPtE.
9. The cooldown on tractor beam mines is too high for reliable usage.
10. I fly a science vessel, not a vesta/carrier.
11. I don't use broken cross faction KDF cheese consoles. I could hit someone and disable their turn + cripple speed for 1 minute +, but how would that be skillful?
12. I fly a science vessel, not a nebula/vesta/cruiser
13. Same as 11, I don't like to use broken cheese consoles. Also easily cleared with hazard emitters. There is also the fact that any Starfleet captain using theta radiation to kill an enemy would get sent to a court martial faster than they could blink.
14. The torpedo cooldown is too long for regular use.
15. This is a science vessel, not a tholian vessel
16. Grappler is weaker than the standard tractor beam
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