As a cybersecurity and information assurance professional I cant help but marvel at how similar this is to a lot of the common DoS and TDos attacks that are becoming more common. I certainly hope there aren't people exploiting the system for griefing.
-snip-
When did this sort of thing become acceptable? When did we, as consumers, decide that we deserve this sort of treatment from the businesses we give our money to? When did we become so addicted to this sort of treatment that we began to defend those who exploit us, throw our money at them and beg for more?
-snip-
I was not defending their decision. But my decision to go LTS certainly has paid off, with little to no wait these past two days.
Please read toonameowt's post, it makes a lot of sense, for right or wrong.
The OP was unfortunately right. What is the best way to make money? Put in an extremely large que and wait for someone to advertise for you how they got in quickly. It's free advertisement at it's best. They should offer him some money for getting so many to subscribe.
People can attempt to make all the analogies they want. Successful business is built on the 5Ps;
People matter. Keep the customer happy. if the customer is not satisfied and
happy with the product or service not only will he/she not be a return customer, but he/she will not recommend the company to other potential customers
Planning matters. Whether strategic for the long view or operational for the day to day routine. You cannot appear to be flying by the seat of your pants. It leads to surprises, bad decisions, cost overruns and poor execution.
Process matters. Having standardized methodology to execute your vision is empowering.
Performance matters. If you are not measuring then you are not managing. However in today's MMO market the players are tracking your performance as much as you and sometimes across more variables than you expect.
Profit matters. You have to maximize the intake of revenue while keeping costs down. However this ability stems from the previous set of Ps. You are not going to get a dime from the player that logs off in frustration to find something else to do. Especially if you competitors are 1, treating them better 2. deal with issues/changes more efficiently and authoritatively 3. have a better "quality" or "performing" product.
People are willing to "pay" for access. However, in today's gaming community, any delay to accessing the product is deemed a negative in modern development.
There are too many games with larger server loads; that are also free to play and without queuing. If you are relying on blind fandom to keep people enthralled.. I question the business model. Some people are looking around to check the status of the game. If you think that sitting and waiting 30min to 1 hour is not going to equate in the long run to loss in revenue; you have alot to learn about business.
Well you have just defeated your own argument. You can still access whatever you have purchased, but if you dont have a sub, you will have to wait.
The problem lies in that the wait is artificially created, whether through lack of foresight and incompetence or, in the more likely case, to boost gold sales. The customer is being made to invest a quantity of time that they should not be forced to invest alongside the money they already paid. When a person pays for in-game goods, we have a reasonable expectation that those goods will be delivered instantly and that our access to them will not be artificially limited in an effort to extort more money from us.
To continue with the airport metaphors, would you not be a little upset if your plane was delayed and you're going to miss a connecting flight because the pilot was drunk and the airline refused to do anything to solve the issue other than wait for the pilot to sober up or sell you an entirely new ticket on another plane? You'll still get to where you're going eventually. You're just going to have to wait. Or pay more money.
So does an airport 'force' you to wait in line, when other people chose to pay to get ahead faster?
Does a theme park 'force' you to wait in line, when other people pay a bit more to get ahead in the que?
Where is all this 'forcing' comming from?
Nobody is 'forcing' you to do anything, you have the same option to subscribe as everybody else dont you?
Or is somebody 'forcing' you not to?
Do airports threaten to delay your flights if you don't pay them twice?
Does a theme park promise instant access to their rides and then offer you a fast pass when you see it was a lie?
The "forcing" is when they compel you to pay them money else they deny you access to things you already purchased for a span of time, depriving you of that time.
Here's my point: I paid $60 for this game when it came out. I was then told I could continue to play without a subscription. I cannot do that because there is a queue. But I sure could pay them another stack of money to get access to my $60 purchase I had access to earlier.
I value my time and money and believe that no company should use these sorts of practices to extort either of them from me. It amazes me that so many people love to be extorted and will vehemently defend those who exploit them with underhanded business practices.
I want this game to be successful. We all want this game to be successful. If these practices continue, though it may be profitable in the short-term, it's only going to drive away customers and hurt the game in the long run as more and more people get sick of this kind of thing. I'm making these criticisms in the vain hope that it might lead to something better, but that's never going to happen until people stop not just accepting this sort of thing but actually defending the exploitative practices that target them.
I was a subscriber before F2P. Once F2P went live I cancelled. This is the first time I have ever seen such a wait to get in game. So I became frustrated and just renewed my subscription to go GOLD again.
Before I renewed I was 24512 out of 24585. Seconds after I renewed, I was 3 out of 24209.
That's a huge difference. I smell a conspiracy....
lol how is that a conspiracy?? They have always said life timers like me and subs will get first priority as we SHOULD since we actually pay for the game.
Cryptic is not EA or Blizzard. Dan Stahl has stated that Cryptic takes a very conservative position when spending money. This is why this game is still around even with its previous difficulties.
My only hope is that this conservative approach does not hurt the game in the long run... i.e. yours and many others log-in woes.
All more subscribers will do is increase the queue length for other subscribers. Even if Cryptic wanted to add more servers ("yeah right, where's the immediate return in $$ from that") it would take time to implement them. They could be here in time for the next fail but money takes absolute priority.
Talking of which, subscribers get priority over free players (as they should, there's little other reason to subscribe) but those buying a Legacy Pack for over $100 don't?! Paying that and being unable to log on to try them would TRIBBLE me off royally.
I was not defending their decision. But my decision to go LTS certainly has paid off, with little to no wait these past two days.
Please read toonameowt's post, it makes a lot of sense, for right or wrong.
If you can afford to do that sort of thing without much trouble, more power to you. A lot of us just can't justify that expenditure. Honestly, I'd probably pay for it, too, if I could afford it. I'd still rage about it, though.
And where could I find that post? If you could link me to it, I'd appreciate it, as I'm far too lazy and embittered to spend time looking for it myself.
I value my time and money and believe that no company should use these sorts of practices to extort either of them from me. It amazes me that so many people love to be extorted and will vehemently defend those who exploit them with underhanded business practices.
Your use of the words "extort" and "extorted" seem to imply that you believe criminal activity has taken or is taking place. Is that the case?
Respectfully, I submit that what you call "underhanded business practices" are simply business practices that you don't understand and by which you apparently feel victimized. I'm sorry that's the case, but I feel compelled to point out that I'm not defending Cryptic/PWE. I recognize what they're doing, I understand it, and from a business executive's POV, it makes sense. I understand that you don't agree with it or like it, but your disagreement and dislike of it doesn't make those collective business practices criminal by any stretch of the imagination.
You youngun's....You don't know how good you have it. Back in the day, we didn't have fancy things like queues. On launch days (game or expansion), we'd have to type our user name and password and then click Play over (all three steps) and over and over until we no longer got "Connection Refused" and actually logged in.
And we liked it!
+1.
I remember the Diablo 2 launch....And Diablo 3 for that matter...
I bet Cryptic expected an influx of players. I am off this week and have been playing on and off all day. Even at 9am there was a queue. It was pretty stable most of the day until the last hour or 2.. I had some problems with lag (it wasn't my connection).
The problem lies in that the wait is artificially created, whether through lack of foresight and incompetence or, in the more likely case, to boost gold sales. The customer is being made to invest a quantity of time that they should not be forced to invest alongside the money they already paid. When a person pays for in-game goods, we have a reasonable expectation that those goods will be delivered instantly and that our access to them will not be artificially limited in an effort to extort more money from us.
Since you like metaphors, let's use another one. SOME theme parks in Florida sell "head of the line passes" which allow holders to skip the line (the queue) and get right on the ride. Others offer a shorter wait if you swing by and pick up a ticket at the attraction and come back later. Two theme parks handle crowd balancing two different ways. So you're telling me this major theme park in FL creates artificially inflated lines because they want to sell their head of the line passes? Not buying it.
Jeez. Entitled much? I pay per month because I want to support the game. In fact, I have been a subscriber on and off since launch. One of the benefits of me paying a monthly subscription is a "head of the line pass" feature. It is an advantage I pay for (in part) with my subscription fee.
People can attempt to make all the analogies they want. Successful business is built on the 5Ps;
People matter. Keep the customer happy. if the customer is not satisfied and
happy with the product or service not only will he/she not be a return customer, but he/she will not recommend the company to other potential customers
Planning matters. Whether strategic for the long view or operational for the day to day routine. You cannot appear to be flying by the seat of your pants. It leads to surprises, bad decisions, cost overruns and poor execution.
Process matters. Having standardized methodology to execute your vision is empowering.
Performance matters. If you are not measuring then you are not managing. However in today's MMO market the players are tracking your performance as much as you and sometimes across more variables than you expect.
Profit matters. You have to maximize the intake of revenue while keeping costs down. However this ability stems from the previous set of Ps. You are not going to get a dime from the player that logs off in frustration to find something else to do. Especially if you competitors are 1, treating them better 2. deal with issues/changes more efficiently and authoritatively 3. have a better "quality" or "performing" product.
People are willing to "pay" for access. However, in today's gaming community, any delay to accessing the product is deemed a negative in modern development.
There are too many games with larger server loads; that are also free to play and without queuing. If you are relying on blind fandom to keep people enthralled.. I question the business model. Some people are looking around to check the status of the game. If you think that sitting and waiting 30min to 1 hour is not going to equate in the long run to loss in revenue; you have alot to learn about business.
This.
I'm subbed to another MMO. I like the StarTrek theme, so 2 weeks ago I gave this game a try. But with all the crashes, disconnects, failures to login, queueing and Gbs of patching I won't be spending any money on this game for the next year, neither in the form of occasional ZEN purchase nor sub. Maybe not even afterwards because due to the way how Cryptic is handling this it won't surprise me it the game is going belly up.
@LTS-er, gutsy move putting so much money in a game of this quality and life expectancy
Your use of the words "extort" and "extorted" seem to imply that you believe criminal activity has taken or is taking place. Is that the case?
Respectfully, I submit that what you call "underhanded business practices" are simply business practices that you don't understand and by which you apparently feel victimized. I'm sorry that's the case, but I feel compelled to point out that I'm not defending Cryptic/PWE. I recognize what they're doing, I understand it, and from a business executive's POV, it makes sense. I understand that you don't agree with it or like it, but your disagreement and dislike of it doesn't make those collective business practices criminal by any stretch of the imagination.
It is not. Though it doesn't have to be illegal to be unethical.
I do understand these business practices and, yes, I do feel victimized. I understand why Cryptic and PWE do what they do, but I feel it does more harm than good. I believe long-term stability, growth and customer experience are being sacrificed for short-term profit grabbing that will ultimately drive away customers and limit the success of a game that I would like to enjoy. Again, I criticize not because I blindly hate Cryptic and PWE and want them to fail, but completely the opposite. These business practices that I believe are ultimately harmful will only stop if we, as consumers, stop supporting them.
You may want to check out some of Jim Sterling's stuff on Destructoid or The Escapist, especially the Jimquisition episodes on Sim City and EA, to get a better idea of where I'm coming from. Even if you don't agree with us, the man has some good points to make.
Since you like metaphors, let's use another one. SOME theme parks in Florida sell "head of the line passes" which allow holders to skip the line (the queue) and get right on the ride. Others offer a shorter wait if you swing by and pick up a ticket at the attraction and come back later. Two theme parks handle crowd balancing two different ways. So you're telling me this major theme park in FL creates artificially inflated lines because they want to sell their head of the line passes? Not buying it.
Jeez. Entitled much? I pay per month because I want to support the game. In fact, I have been a subscriber on and off since launch. One of the benefits of me paying a monthly subscription is a "head of the line pass" feature. It is an advantage I pay for (in part) with my subscription fee.
Rides are a service. We're not talking about a service. We're talking about products. Virtual products are still products. We paid for access to those products and that access is not being delivered without an additional investment of time or money aside from the purchase price. It's deceptive, disingenuous and wrong.
And, yes. I am entitled to what I paid for. That's why I paid for it. That's what paying for something is. You pay for something - you are entitled to it. I paid this product. I am entitled to this product. I cannot access it without an additional investment of time or money that was tacked on after the purchasing of this product was complete.
I have no problem with people paying for in-game conveniences or fluff, but when I'm required to make an extra investment of time or money to access the product itself that I have already paid for then we have a problem.
I believe long-term stability, growth and customer experience are being sacrificed for short-term profit grabbing that will ultimately drive away customers and limit the success of a game that I would like to enjoy. Again, I criticize not because I blindly hate Cryptic and PWE to fail, but completely the opposite. These business practices that I believe are ultimately harmful will only stop if we, as consumers, stop supporting them.
I'm not sure how long you've been playing STO, but this happens every time a new season or new content gets launched. There's a horrendous rush for the servers THE MOMENT the new content goes live, the server queues kick in and players roar about having to wait in line. That said, the queue tonight was *longer* than I'd ever seen it before, yet it moved along much *faster* than I'd seen it move before. So from my perspective, Cryptic *has apparently acted* in an anticipatory manner in order to ameliorate this issue. The queues aren't *gone,* but they're moving with greater alacrity than I've seen them move before -- so I honestly think you've been met in the middle already. In any event, I anticipate that the queues will be gone in a month, so I see them as no more than a temporary inconvenience.
You're perfectly free to decline to subscribe if you don't want to, but in so doing, you're implicitly choosing to forego the benefits available to subscribers under the Ts & Cs. It seems quite cut-and-dried to me, especially since you can change your mind at any time and avail yourself of those published benefits.
I'm subbed to another MMO. I like the StarTrek theme, so 2 weeks ago I gave this game a try. But with all the crashes, disconnects, failures to login, queueing and Gbs of patching I won't be spending any money on this game for the next year, neither in the form of occasional ZEN purchase nor sub. Maybe not even afterwards because due to the way how Cryptic is handling this it won't surprise me it the game is going belly up.
@LTS-er, gutsy move putting so much money in a game of this quality and life expectancy
3 years ago I bought a lifetime subscription to STO, at the time I felt the sting in my wallet, but I loved the core of the game, and star trek.
I weathered all the bad, especially as I was also a Klingon player, and believe me that sucked, for a long long time.
I've taken months away, and when the game was looking like the lights were going to go out, I sadly shook my head at the folly of forking over that money.
Then came free to play, perfect world and dillithuim, and I doubted with all my heart that it would work out, and once again I sadly shook my head about purchasing a lifetime.
Today I patched the game up, popped in and saw a 2k + qeue and smiled as my position instantly changed to 1
I ran about as a Romulan, looked at the beautiful new UI and costumes, the fantastic ships and little details like fusing pipes with my phaser, or the subtle uses of bloom on the flotilla interior.
I loved the new uniforms, how my new bridge officers had stories, how contacts had little voice clips when they popped on screen, and I loved how when I popped into sector space 3 years worth of accolades blasted across my screen, topped off by a nice little stockpile of Zen form months of stipend unused.
I'm no longer shaking my head at my initial investment of a lifetime subscription, I'm laughing maniacally and smiling form ear to ear.
im sorry but this is a little hard to swallow, i cant believe that there are that many more new accounts plus old ones, ive seen queues before and there wasnt more than a hr wait to get in ,more like 5 to 10 min tops which is reasonable , this is just a joke and i agree that this seems like a ploy to get players to sub .
and i agree while silver accounts dont have to pay anything , there are alot that do , and have , there are a lot of players that were subscribed before F2P started and have continued to support the game with game purchases rather than subs .
this queue is way outta control , nothing like the last time , which was a 10 min tops wait if that .so excuse me if i feel that this is a fail in the devs department . for every day this happens thats one less purchase i plan to make in the future.
It is not. Though it doesn't have to be illegal to be unethical.
Rides are a service. We're not talking about a service. We're talking about products. Virtual products are still products. We paid for access to those products and that access is not being delivered without an additional investment of time or money aside from the purchase price. It's deceptive, disingenuous and wrong.
Rides are a service as much as a game. You pay Cryptic/Perfect World for access to their servers, it's a SERVICE. They provide you with a SERVICE (the game). People go to theme parks to ride rides, right? Unless I'm missing something, they pay for a service, often a service that only that specific park provides. Sure you can ride GenericRollerCoaster anywhere, but can you ride Space Mountain anywhere? What about The Hulk rollercoaster? These are also products. You are paying for both.
When I buy a ticket, I pay to experience the rides that the theme park provides. When I pay for STO, I pay to experience a game. It's the same thing. Just because I have a head of the line pass because I subscribe doesn't mean that Cryptic is ripping people off. It's not deceptive, disingenuous or wrong. It is what it is.
At the end of the day, you're upset because you can't access the game when you want to. What if the power was out? What if your Internet access was out? You would still not be able to access the game, would you still rage on Cryptic? Would you call your electric company disingenuous? Would you call your ISP "deceptive"?
And, yes. I am entitled to what I paid for. That's why I paid for it. That's what paying for something is. You pay for something - you are entitled to it. I paid this product. I am entitled to this product. I cannot access it without an additional investment of time or money that was tacked on after the purchasing of this product was complete.
Yes, you are. I bought the box and paid for a subscription for many, many months. Guess what, I CAN'T ACCESS THE GAME RIGHT NOW EITHER! The difference is rather than going off in a tizzy and freaking out when the developers are trying to fix a problem that (may) reduce login queues because **ZOMG I CAN'T PLAY RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!**, I'm actually sitting back and making a commentary about how entitled you must feel. Stuff breaks. It happens. You'll do your blood pressure good to realize this.
I have no problem with people paying for in-game conveniences or fluff, but when I'm required to make an extra investment of time or money to access the product itself that I have already paid for then we have a problem.
This game was not always free to play. In addition to the subscription, you had to buy end game ships through the C-store. So not only did you pay a subscription fee, but you also either had to grind out or pay for your end game ship.
And you're playing the wrong game genre if you're not willing to invest extra time. MMOs are HUGE time sinks.
Again, this all boils down to you freaking out about a login queue. If you don't want the queue, subscribe.
Not to be snarky, but I'd love to see an example of *legal* extortion.
I'm not sure how long you've been playing STO, but this happens every time a new season or new content gets launched. There's a horrendous rush for the servers THE MOMENT the new content goes live, the server queues kick in and players roar about having to wait in line. That said, the queue tonight was *longer* than I'd ever seen it before, yet it moved along much *faster* than I'd seen it move before. So from my perspective, Cryptic *has apparently acted* in an anticipatory manner in order to ameliorate this issue. The queues aren't *gone,* but they're moving with greater alacrity than I've seen them move before -- so I honestly think you've been met in the middle already. In any event, I anticipate that the queues will be gone in a month, so I see them as no more than a temporary inconvenience.
You're perfectly free to decline to subscribe if you don't want to, but in so doing, you're implicitly choosing to forego the benefits available to subscribers under the Ts & Cs. It seems quite cut-and-dried to me, especially since you can change your mind at any time and avail yourself of those published benefits.
I can give you a great example of legal extortion: "Pay us more money or we won't give you access to the product you already paid for." Though not strictly illegal, I would actually like to see this sort of practice challenged in court. The F2P industry needs some real regulations to protect customers from their more devious and exploitative practices, but I know that would never happen.
I was in CB for STO, but I quit playing about half-a-year after release, and I've participated in CB for every game Cryptic has ever released aside from Neverwinter, so I know Cryptic's not new to this industry. If they didn't foresee these problems, they never would have marketed the gold membership as giving people queue priority. If no queues were expected, why sell queue priority beforehand? Even if there were more people than expected or whatever, they've been around a loooong time and they keep metrics on this sort of thing. THEY need to be prepared for this contingency and not push that onto the customer. I shouldn't be made to pay more money or wait in line because they couldn't get their ***** together and put together a working server farm.
The bottom line is that I paid $60.00 for a product I'm not receiving unless I invest extra money or time. Access to a product you paid for isn't convenience. It's not a premium service that you pay extra for. You don't sell a product and then tell the customer that they can't have what they paid for without an additional investment.
I'm subbed to another MMO. I like the StarTrek theme, so 2 weeks ago I gave this game a try. But with all the crashes, disconnects, failures to login, queueing and Gbs of patching I won't be spending any money on this game for the next year, neither in the form of occasional ZEN purchase nor sub. Maybe not even afterwards because due to the way how Cryptic is handling this it won't surprise me it the game is going belly up.
@LTS-er, gutsy move putting so much money in a game of this quality and life expectancy
So a game with so many players the servers can't take it is going to go belly up? I love gamers logic.
Also I guess no one remembers the launch of Sim City. That game was made by EA, one of the largest gaming companies out there and they couldn't deal with a day 1 launch. Overloaded servers are a mixed blessing, it means your game is popular but it means folks can't play the game.
In the end its a good thing because eventually folks will get in and more folks will trickle in as the weeks pass. And more folks playing leads to more revenue and a longer life for STO.
I was a subscriber before F2P. Once F2P went live I cancelled. This is the first time I have ever seen such a wait to get in game. So I became frustrated and just renewed my subscription to go GOLD again.
Before I renewed I was 24512 out of 24585. Seconds after I renewed, I was 3 out of 24209.
That's a huge difference. I smell a conspiracy....
I am f2p I guess but have spent almost 200USD buying zen through steam. I have considered buying a LTS but to be honest the fact that I cant play a game I have already spent so much on makes me want to never play it again if they want to strong arm me into more money.
I can give you a great example of legal extortion: "Pay us more money or we won't give you access to the product you already paid for."
Let me know when you come up with an *actual* example as opposed to hyperbole. :cool:
You're being forced to wait in line due to higher than normal demand. Same thing happens at the airport during holidays., and it's not extortion there, either. People in First Class, with elite airline status or with priority access passes get through the line faster.
Though not strictly illegal, I would actually like to see this sort of practice challenged in court. The F2P industry needs some real regulations to protect customers from their more devious and exploitative practices, but I know that would never happen.
Just FYI, when people start talking litigation, Cryptic tends to lock threads.
I was in CB for STO, but I quit playing about half-a-year after release, and I've participated in CB for every game Cryptic has ever released aside from Neverwinter, so I know Cryptic's not new to this industry. If they didn't foresee these problems, they never would have marketed the gold membership as giving people queue priority. If no queues were expected, why sell queue priority beforehand? Even if there were more people than expected or whatever, they've been around a loooong time and they keep metrics on this sort of thing. THEY need to be prepared for this contingency and not push that onto the customer. I shouldn't be made to pay more money or wait in line because they couldn't get their ***** together and put together a working server farm.
You've answered your question yourself. Why would they want to build out excess server capacity and obviate the need for priority access when they had already made priority access a selling point for paid subscriptions?
The bottom line is that I paid $60.00 for a product I'm not receiving unless I invest extra money or time.
No, you paid for a *service* that you have to wait in line for right now. You could purchase a higher *level* of service that comes with priority access, but you've chosen not to do so. I don't begrudge you that choice, but you seem upset at the consequences of that choice -- which, if you've been around as long as you say -- you should be well aware of.
If we both pay for a Coach airfare and I get upgraded to First Class because of my airline status, are you somehow not receiving the service you paid for? You're not getting a larger seat, a meal, free booze or priority luggage handling, so is the airline somehow shortchanging you?
Respectfully, companies recognize customers that bring them more revenue, and some companies like to reward those customers. One of the ways Cryptic does that is via priority access during high-traffic periods. I don't see how that harms you.
Comments
I was not defending their decision. But my decision to go LTS certainly has paid off, with little to no wait these past two days.
Please read toonameowt's post, it makes a lot of sense, for right or wrong.
People matter. Keep the customer happy. if the customer is not satisfied and
happy with the product or service not only will he/she not be a return customer, but he/she will not recommend the company to other potential customers
Planning matters. Whether strategic for the long view or operational for the day to day routine. You cannot appear to be flying by the seat of your pants. It leads to surprises, bad decisions, cost overruns and poor execution.
Process matters. Having standardized methodology to execute your vision is empowering.
Performance matters. If you are not measuring then you are not managing. However in today's MMO market the players are tracking your performance as much as you and sometimes across more variables than you expect.
Profit matters. You have to maximize the intake of revenue while keeping costs down. However this ability stems from the previous set of Ps. You are not going to get a dime from the player that logs off in frustration to find something else to do. Especially if you competitors are 1, treating them better 2. deal with issues/changes more efficiently and authoritatively 3. have a better "quality" or "performing" product.
People are willing to "pay" for access. However, in today's gaming community, any delay to accessing the product is deemed a negative in modern development.
There are too many games with larger server loads; that are also free to play and without queuing. If you are relying on blind fandom to keep people enthralled.. I question the business model. Some people are looking around to check the status of the game. If you think that sitting and waiting 30min to 1 hour is not going to equate in the long run to loss in revenue; you have alot to learn about business.
To continue with the airport metaphors, would you not be a little upset if your plane was delayed and you're going to miss a connecting flight because the pilot was drunk and the airline refused to do anything to solve the issue other than wait for the pilot to sober up or sell you an entirely new ticket on another plane? You'll still get to where you're going eventually. You're just going to have to wait. Or pay more money.
Do airports threaten to delay your flights if you don't pay them twice?
Does a theme park promise instant access to their rides and then offer you a fast pass when you see it was a lie?
The "forcing" is when they compel you to pay them money else they deny you access to things you already purchased for a span of time, depriving you of that time.
Here's my point: I paid $60 for this game when it came out. I was then told I could continue to play without a subscription. I cannot do that because there is a queue. But I sure could pay them another stack of money to get access to my $60 purchase I had access to earlier.
I value my time and money and believe that no company should use these sorts of practices to extort either of them from me. It amazes me that so many people love to be extorted and will vehemently defend those who exploit them with underhanded business practices.
I want this game to be successful. We all want this game to be successful. If these practices continue, though it may be profitable in the short-term, it's only going to drive away customers and hurt the game in the long run as more and more people get sick of this kind of thing. I'm making these criticisms in the vain hope that it might lead to something better, but that's never going to happen until people stop not just accepting this sort of thing but actually defending the exploitative practices that target them.
lol how is that a conspiracy?? They have always said life timers like me and subs will get first priority as we SHOULD since we actually pay for the game.
All more subscribers will do is increase the queue length for other subscribers. Even if Cryptic wanted to add more servers ("yeah right, where's the immediate return in $$ from that") it would take time to implement them. They could be here in time for the next fail but money takes absolute priority.
Talking of which, subscribers get priority over free players (as they should, there's little other reason to subscribe) but those buying a Legacy Pack for over $100 don't?! Paying that and being unable to log on to try them would TRIBBLE me off royally.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
And where could I find that post? If you could link me to it, I'd appreciate it, as I'm far too lazy and embittered to spend time looking for it myself.
Your use of the words "extort" and "extorted" seem to imply that you believe criminal activity has taken or is taking place. Is that the case?
Respectfully, I submit that what you call "underhanded business practices" are simply business practices that you don't understand and by which you apparently feel victimized. I'm sorry that's the case, but I feel compelled to point out that I'm not defending Cryptic/PWE. I recognize what they're doing, I understand it, and from a business executive's POV, it makes sense. I understand that you don't agree with it or like it, but your disagreement and dislike of it doesn't make those collective business practices criminal by any stretch of the imagination.
+1.
I remember the Diablo 2 launch....And Diablo 3 for that matter...
I bet Cryptic expected an influx of players. I am off this week and have been playing on and off all day. Even at 9am there was a queue. It was pretty stable most of the day until the last hour or 2.. I had some problems with lag (it wasn't my connection).
Since you like metaphors, let's use another one. SOME theme parks in Florida sell "head of the line passes" which allow holders to skip the line (the queue) and get right on the ride. Others offer a shorter wait if you swing by and pick up a ticket at the attraction and come back later. Two theme parks handle crowd balancing two different ways. So you're telling me this major theme park in FL creates artificially inflated lines because they want to sell their head of the line passes? Not buying it.
Jeez. Entitled much? I pay per month because I want to support the game. In fact, I have been a subscriber on and off since launch. One of the benefits of me paying a monthly subscription is a "head of the line pass" feature. It is an advantage I pay for (in part) with my subscription fee.
This.
I'm subbed to another MMO. I like the StarTrek theme, so 2 weeks ago I gave this game a try. But with all the crashes, disconnects, failures to login, queueing and Gbs of patching I won't be spending any money on this game for the next year, neither in the form of occasional ZEN purchase nor sub. Maybe not even afterwards because due to the way how Cryptic is handling this it won't surprise me it the game is going belly up.
@LTS-er, gutsy move putting so much money in a game of this quality and life expectancy
I do understand these business practices and, yes, I do feel victimized. I understand why Cryptic and PWE do what they do, but I feel it does more harm than good. I believe long-term stability, growth and customer experience are being sacrificed for short-term profit grabbing that will ultimately drive away customers and limit the success of a game that I would like to enjoy. Again, I criticize not because I blindly hate Cryptic and PWE and want them to fail, but completely the opposite. These business practices that I believe are ultimately harmful will only stop if we, as consumers, stop supporting them.
You may want to check out some of Jim Sterling's stuff on Destructoid or The Escapist, especially the Jimquisition episodes on Sim City and EA, to get a better idea of where I'm coming from. Even if you don't agree with us, the man has some good points to make.
Rides are a service. We're not talking about a service. We're talking about products. Virtual products are still products. We paid for access to those products and that access is not being delivered without an additional investment of time or money aside from the purchase price. It's deceptive, disingenuous and wrong.
And, yes. I am entitled to what I paid for. That's why I paid for it. That's what paying for something is. You pay for something - you are entitled to it. I paid this product. I am entitled to this product. I cannot access it without an additional investment of time or money that was tacked on after the purchasing of this product was complete.
I have no problem with people paying for in-game conveniences or fluff, but when I'm required to make an extra investment of time or money to access the product itself that I have already paid for then we have a problem.
Not to be snarky, but I'd love to see an example of *legal* extortion.
I'm not sure how long you've been playing STO, but this happens every time a new season or new content gets launched. There's a horrendous rush for the servers THE MOMENT the new content goes live, the server queues kick in and players roar about having to wait in line. That said, the queue tonight was *longer* than I'd ever seen it before, yet it moved along much *faster* than I'd seen it move before. So from my perspective, Cryptic *has apparently acted* in an anticipatory manner in order to ameliorate this issue. The queues aren't *gone,* but they're moving with greater alacrity than I've seen them move before -- so I honestly think you've been met in the middle already. In any event, I anticipate that the queues will be gone in a month, so I see them as no more than a temporary inconvenience.
You're perfectly free to decline to subscribe if you don't want to, but in so doing, you're implicitly choosing to forego the benefits available to subscribers under the Ts & Cs. It seems quite cut-and-dried to me, especially since you can change your mind at any time and avail yourself of those published benefits.
3 years ago I bought a lifetime subscription to STO, at the time I felt the sting in my wallet, but I loved the core of the game, and star trek.
I weathered all the bad, especially as I was also a Klingon player, and believe me that sucked, for a long long time.
I've taken months away, and when the game was looking like the lights were going to go out, I sadly shook my head at the folly of forking over that money.
Then came free to play, perfect world and dillithuim, and I doubted with all my heart that it would work out, and once again I sadly shook my head about purchasing a lifetime.
Today I patched the game up, popped in and saw a 2k + qeue and smiled as my position instantly changed to 1
I ran about as a Romulan, looked at the beautiful new UI and costumes, the fantastic ships and little details like fusing pipes with my phaser, or the subtle uses of bloom on the flotilla interior.
I loved the new uniforms, how my new bridge officers had stories, how contacts had little voice clips when they popped on screen, and I loved how when I popped into sector space 3 years worth of accolades blasted across my screen, topped off by a nice little stockpile of Zen form months of stipend unused.
I'm no longer shaking my head at my initial investment of a lifetime subscription, I'm laughing maniacally and smiling form ear to ear.
and i agree while silver accounts dont have to pay anything , there are alot that do , and have , there are a lot of players that were subscribed before F2P started and have continued to support the game with game purchases rather than subs .
this queue is way outta control , nothing like the last time , which was a 10 min tops wait if that .so excuse me if i feel that this is a fail in the devs department . for every day this happens thats one less purchase i plan to make in the future.
Rides are a service as much as a game. You pay Cryptic/Perfect World for access to their servers, it's a SERVICE. They provide you with a SERVICE (the game). People go to theme parks to ride rides, right? Unless I'm missing something, they pay for a service, often a service that only that specific park provides. Sure you can ride GenericRollerCoaster anywhere, but can you ride Space Mountain anywhere? What about The Hulk rollercoaster? These are also products. You are paying for both.
When I buy a ticket, I pay to experience the rides that the theme park provides. When I pay for STO, I pay to experience a game. It's the same thing. Just because I have a head of the line pass because I subscribe doesn't mean that Cryptic is ripping people off. It's not deceptive, disingenuous or wrong. It is what it is.
At the end of the day, you're upset because you can't access the game when you want to. What if the power was out? What if your Internet access was out? You would still not be able to access the game, would you still rage on Cryptic? Would you call your electric company disingenuous? Would you call your ISP "deceptive"?
Yes, you are. I bought the box and paid for a subscription for many, many months. Guess what, I CAN'T ACCESS THE GAME RIGHT NOW EITHER! The difference is rather than going off in a tizzy and freaking out when the developers are trying to fix a problem that (may) reduce login queues because **ZOMG I CAN'T PLAY RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!**, I'm actually sitting back and making a commentary about how entitled you must feel. Stuff breaks. It happens. You'll do your blood pressure good to realize this.
This game was not always free to play. In addition to the subscription, you had to buy end game ships through the C-store. So not only did you pay a subscription fee, but you also either had to grind out or pay for your end game ship.
And you're playing the wrong game genre if you're not willing to invest extra time. MMOs are HUGE time sinks.
Again, this all boils down to you freaking out about a login queue. If you don't want the queue, subscribe.
I was in CB for STO, but I quit playing about half-a-year after release, and I've participated in CB for every game Cryptic has ever released aside from Neverwinter, so I know Cryptic's not new to this industry. If they didn't foresee these problems, they never would have marketed the gold membership as giving people queue priority. If no queues were expected, why sell queue priority beforehand? Even if there were more people than expected or whatever, they've been around a loooong time and they keep metrics on this sort of thing. THEY need to be prepared for this contingency and not push that onto the customer. I shouldn't be made to pay more money or wait in line because they couldn't get their ***** together and put together a working server farm.
The bottom line is that I paid $60.00 for a product I'm not receiving unless I invest extra money or time. Access to a product you paid for isn't convenience. It's not a premium service that you pay extra for. You don't sell a product and then tell the customer that they can't have what they paid for without an additional investment.
So a game with so many players the servers can't take it is going to go belly up? I love gamers logic.
Also I guess no one remembers the launch of Sim City. That game was made by EA, one of the largest gaming companies out there and they couldn't deal with a day 1 launch. Overloaded servers are a mixed blessing, it means your game is popular but it means folks can't play the game.
In the end its a good thing because eventually folks will get in and more folks will trickle in as the weeks pass. And more folks playing leads to more revenue and a longer life for STO.
I am f2p I guess but have spent almost 200USD buying zen through steam. I have considered buying a LTS but to be honest the fact that I cant play a game I have already spent so much on makes me want to never play it again if they want to strong arm me into more money.
Let me know when you come up with an *actual* example as opposed to hyperbole. :cool:
You're being forced to wait in line due to higher than normal demand. Same thing happens at the airport during holidays., and it's not extortion there, either. People in First Class, with elite airline status or with priority access passes get through the line faster.
Just FYI, when people start talking litigation, Cryptic tends to lock threads.
You've answered your question yourself. Why would they want to build out excess server capacity and obviate the need for priority access when they had already made priority access a selling point for paid subscriptions?
No, you paid for a *service* that you have to wait in line for right now. You could purchase a higher *level* of service that comes with priority access, but you've chosen not to do so. I don't begrudge you that choice, but you seem upset at the consequences of that choice -- which, if you've been around as long as you say -- you should be well aware of.
If we both pay for a Coach airfare and I get upgraded to First Class because of my airline status, are you somehow not receiving the service you paid for? You're not getting a larger seat, a meal, free booze or priority luggage handling, so is the airline somehow shortchanging you?
Respectfully, companies recognize customers that bring them more revenue, and some companies like to reward those customers. One of the ways Cryptic does that is via priority access during high-traffic periods. I don't see how that harms you.
That's *precisely* what a Gold or LTS is; a premium level of service.
And Cryptic has done no such thing. You can still have what you paid for. You just have to wait in line for it right now. Shrug.