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Disappointed returning player.
koppster
Member Posts: 179 Arc User
I am sad to see what has become of the game in my absence of just over a year or so.
Not only have some in-game rewards been removed from STF's they were originally obtained from (borg set for instance), but they've now been stuck behind a horribly implemented reputation grind that is nothing other than a blatant time and ec sink.
Having even first tier rewards gated behind time-based "quests" is ridiculous. You can't even grind the rep in the traditional MMO manner, as the return from, for instance, turning in Omega marks in the non-time limited manner is abysmal.
Why turn STO into a grind? It's counter-productive to modern MMO development philosophy. Any MMO player survey will tell you: no-one likes grinding in an MMO. Grinding loses subs.
Not only have some in-game rewards been removed from STF's they were originally obtained from (borg set for instance), but they've now been stuck behind a horribly implemented reputation grind that is nothing other than a blatant time and ec sink.
Having even first tier rewards gated behind time-based "quests" is ridiculous. You can't even grind the rep in the traditional MMO manner, as the return from, for instance, turning in Omega marks in the non-time limited manner is abysmal.
Why turn STO into a grind? It's counter-productive to modern MMO development philosophy. Any MMO player survey will tell you: no-one likes grinding in an MMO. Grinding loses subs.
Post edited by koppster on
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With the new system, completing a set is far easier and not chance-based, like the old Borg drops. Just takes time and resources, but once it's done, you're glad you did it because of all the little perks it gives you.
You are correct in that no one really likes grinding (im sure some do). You are totally wrong that its not needed. It is imperative to any successful MMO and a necessary evil.
People will spend all day moaning on the forums how much they hate grind, then go off and grind it nonetheless.
You can not, in any way shape or form, release new content fast enough to keep people happy. You have to have content that is repeatable and gives people long term goals. Having nothing to aim for loses subs, as their studies have shown. the plugged the people leaving by adding more endgame and grind. its not a perfect solution but it works.
yes, having too much grind can be counter productive if it becomes unobtainable and people lose interest, but none of the grind is that crazy here. its all quite obtainable.
Let's use WoW as an example. With the latest rep system you can buy tokens with your main once they reach exaulted (tier 5) that makes the rep grinding less of a chore on your other characters. That maybe something that cryptic could look into. Even before that you could buy tokens for Wrath factions that gave a rep boost for justice points.
Given that the new Tholian rep ssytem seems to be Defera Invesion Zone 2.0 it maybe something of a necessity.
CaptainRevo and istvaanshogaatsu are right. PWE/Cryptic can't be putting out new things everyday. That's why there is grinding, so that players have to do some (insert (possibly new) content) a couple times to get what they want. Plus the chance of getting Prototype tech was tiring because some players would do the same missions hundreds of times HOPING that they'll MAYBE get something of interest. Not all grinding is fun, but sometimes, I find Mine Trap fun (once or twice in a row, lol), or STFs fun, or etc.
If there wasn't grind, people who get bored and leave the game because PWE can't be putting out new stuff everyday. So, that is why grind exists. I hate having to do some grind (Colony Invasion, Mine Trap) , other grind I like (New Romulus, Azure Nebula, STFs). They try to make grind fun, but sometimes, the grind is not fun at all. But it's better than losing players because you didn't release X feature or Y feature in time.
The trouble comes when devs make the grind BORING and artifically gate it.
The concept of dailys and grind simply don't go together.
You seem to be familiar with other MMOs yet you call what STO does at lvl 50 a grind without laughing so hard you can no longer type?
I used to play Left 4 Dead and while it only had a handful of maps the game changed and would become more or less forgiving as you progressed based on how you were doing. You can't do that in this game or it would be more difficult but taking an idea from that would be good.
Though I think one thing that would make grind much better would be if all missions rewarded some of the other required marks. This way you could do missions you like and get what you need to plod through the rep system. For example you could play an stf and get 50 omega marks but you would also get 10 romulan and fleet marks. You could play azure nebula rescue and get 50 romulan marks and 10 fleet and omega marks. This way you encourage players to play all the content but you do not force them to.
Also the rep system has the 20 hour timer to make you log in every day. More people logging in daily means it looks like a bigger success and can advertise its wares and tempt you more.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Compared to the market leader, STO is ridiculous.
I can hit 90 in a couple of days of playing if I have a main char to provide heirlooms and be relatively decently geared in 1-2 weeks through lfr queuing and lesser coin rolls.
I hit 50 in STO, with no help in the level grind apart from C-Store gimme your money shenanigans xp boost packs and it will take me months of daily logging in to have a decently geared ship so I can do what? Grind the same boring STF's, albeit with slightly harder difficulty. Start an alt and I have to do the same all over again, including the daft time&EC-gated rep grinds for half decent purplz.
A game with the limited subscriber/player base and limited end-game content of STO should not be only catering to the hardcore obsessive fringe players, who mostly only persist in playing because they're in love with the IP & canon.
That's a fast path to oblivion. Something that a game with limited appeal and player attention span can do without.
Not if you wanted a MkXII piece of gear. You had to hope the random number generator rewarded you with an item you needed; and I know plenty of folks who (myself included) - after a year, DIDN'T have a complete set of what they actually wanted; or had numerous duplicates that they could only sell back to an NPC.
With the new rep system you can get fully geared in all the MkXII sets (and at a casual pace) in about 3 months - guaranteed.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
OP wait until the expansion launches this week, it's phenomenal! :eek:
=/\=USS Lindsey Stirling =/\= NCC-116747 =/\=
=/\= Liberty Task Force =/\= Diplomatic Advisor =/\=
Is there anything in this xpac for fed players, or just yet another rep grind for some slightly different gear? Or is it all about the romulans?
It took me a whole week of playing STF's to get the gear sets I wanted(At a casual pace). It was only 3 pieces of gear per set for a total of what 6 separate gears pieces. You can do a STF once every hour. And the Borg set wasn't a random drop, you could buy it, pretty quickly I might add if you did STF's. I'd rather that then spent millions in EC to unlock a series of things I STILL have to grind for to unlock individually, of which I only want maybe one or 2 things anyways.
Oooh but you are not seeing the big picture... More Grind and more Time Sinks means that people cannot progress too fast and be done with all the content. It keeps them plugging along and logging in when they otherwise would not. That helps PWE's bottom line. It may not be so hot for us... but it is great for them. If they lose any customers they will just replace them with new customers which is even better seems how they do not have all the stuff they will need to buy yet.
The Romulan Rep also unlocked some additional story missions to play, and some background cutscenes.
Seeing what the Tholians are upto behind the scenes is really building them into a nice new bad guy.
It didn't drop MkXII gear directly - it dropped items you had to turn in for MkXII gear; but they were very specific items that didn't drop for everyone - or you had 3 shield turn in items and the deflector or Engine turn in items never dropped for you.
Some player were VERY lucky and got a full set in under 30 elite STF runs, others (myself included) were still missing full 3 piece gear sets after nearly a year of trying to get them.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
you are not one of the few there are a lot that like the system as it is it just seems that on these fourms there are more people here that complain about the game is all this is I find the usually people in the game that are happy with it really don't say much its kinda weird actually then again they might be busy playing and not griping on here don't worry most of the folks here would like you to think they speak for the majority with the incessant whining and tear jerking but they don't
not true, yes I still have a MK12 MACO shield that has now matching components but I do have all the sets, some prior from former changes (IE the Borg, Aegis, and Breen) but the other took me a few elite STFs. Would say within three months.
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
the new system is fair and the grind has an end.
also, new stuff was introduced in the process.
what i do miss is the opportunity to CHOOSE which kind of marks you get as a reward.
for example - i was enjoying the salt vampires, but i have no reason to play the event after my Romulan Rep is finished and i have everything i needed from the stores.
IF i could get FM's instead, i would love to replay it once in a while.
WOULD ALSO HELP THE QUEUES.
....................................................
on time gating:
the game is F2P and as such paid by people with money - aka jobs
the time gates are annoying, but actually they prevent that people without job grind the best stuff ingame quick, leaving the peeps which work/have families or any kind of RL far behind.
in other words - it prevents elitism.
lol superior attitude. Here's a quick reference link for what elite means: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elite
Now don't get me wrong, being good doesn't mean you have to be a d*** about it but conversely when someone is really good, it's usually a good idea to listen or take part in mission organization with them. I'm getting sick and tired of people complaining about elitism and comparing it to people being complete *******.
There are also a lot of people currently playing on this elite difficulty (which is meant for better players at the game) and are hopelessly out matched and die so often that they risk losing the mission and are guaranteed to lose the optional. Though now a lot of the better players in this game no longer pug which is a big shame and quite a loss imo.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Oooh so that boring rep grind I got bored of was suppost to keep me hooked instead of making me go play something else until LoR came out. /sarcasm
Back to the sorta topic path its on, but at this point it actually was faster in the old system (post-LFG and mission split up) to get a full set.
Borg Set: 1 Episode mission (console) + 15 runs = done (Total time maybe about 4.5 hours)
Heck even some of the MACO/OMEGA sets could be earned by just doing runs. You didn't actually have to rely on the drop chances for some of it. If I remember right you could get up to mark eleven with just the borg chip tokens.
And I'm not liking the idea of trying to do the rep-grind on MANY characters, or working on more then one character to max out a rep at a time. I wanna max romulan rep for the free reman race, but I don't like the idea of spending a month + ALL the energy credits required to max it out. Or having to do the rep on one char, then repeating it on my romulan (planned) char so they have romulan themed gear.
It's an improvement over the randomness yes, but the EC costs skyrocket rather quickly and I doubt everybody can maintain that level of EC incoming to offset it.