test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Cruiser/sci ship solved
certox
Member Posts: 29 Arc User
Use warp cores as follows
Three types but break up the classes
Cruisers plus ? to weapons and Shields
Escorts plus ? to weapons and thrusters/ Impulse
Science plus ? to Shields and sensors/ deflectors Problem solved
Three types but break up the classes
Cruisers plus ? to weapons and Shields
Escorts plus ? to weapons and thrusters/ Impulse
Science plus ? to Shields and sensors/ deflectors Problem solved
Post edited by certox on
0
Comments
Cruisers already have larger power pools.
Escorts already get the largest boost to weapons, while having the highest defense.
Sci ships already have the largest shield multipliers, plus innate subsystem targeting and sensor analysis ability.
Science ships need more hull, another forward weapon and the useless ensign sci station switched to a universal one.
Cruisers certainly don't need more weapons power, what they do need is an inherent weapon damage boost and some of them a boost to turn rate.
escorts if anything just need a little bit more shields
DPS= tactical
Controller/debuffer= sci
Tank/healer= not used in this game
So the problem is how to give the tanks a role - which is not dps, debuffing or controlling.
Something they are the only ones who can do and is used in the game.
Another idea is quite simple. Cruiser only bonus: Beam weapons drain ~10% less energy, maybe 20%. So instead of -10 to each beam weapon, it'd become -8. It isn't a huge boost, but it would still increase DPS.
Admittedly, I still like the idea of cruisers becoming stronger the more damage they take. Not more durable, as we've already got that covered, but they're able to defend themselves effectively.
Tanks in WoW actually get huge DPS numbers because of their AOE attacks. They're able to pull groups of 5-6 mobs and do damage to 3+ at a time, which inflates their DPS tremendously. Their single-target DPS (such as in fights against bosses) is usually about 50-75% of a DPS class's in similar gear levels.
STO is not set up in the same way, for high constant aggro on groups of enemies. I've said it before, Cruisers need built-in ship abilities to help them manage aggro, and not just against single targets like Cubes -- they need to be able to grab the attention of a bunch of Spheres and endure their attacks.
Aggro management in this game is the single biggest factor in why Cruisers just do not hold up. That needs to be addressed before the ships themselves can be rebalanced.
which ship are you talking about.....well...at least ensign sci has more usability than an ens eng..TSS 1, HE 1, ST 1, TB 1...TSS(any rank) combined with EPtS is a great combo IMO.
This sounds about right. If beams can't get a boost for higher dps (which would increase threat) than how about just simply an added threat boost?
The 'getting pummeled=higher dps' idea would work too.
But step one is the dev's admitting there is a problem. From what I have read, they are finally recognizing this fact, so keep the threads alive with ideas folks. They've admitted the problem, we mostly have it pinpointed, now we need simple solutions.
That was true until Cataclysm added Vengeance. A similar mechanic here strikes me as being a great idea - no need to steal everything from WoW, but why not build on some of their applicable ideas?
I typically have an easier time holding threat on a bunch of random TRIBBLE than I do on a single target, depending on the length of the fight. BFaW with 9/9 in Threat Control is usually plenty to get the job done against a group, but it's slightly less often good enough to get the job done against a single target where Escorts can go full-out alpha strike (AP:A, FomM, GDF... things that they don't usually waste on a group).
I was thinking earlier today, though, that it'd be nice if they added an Ensign through Lt. Commander taunt, though; each BOff type could have a flavored version of it that has different benefits beyond the taunt, but it should exist in each BOff type. So, Tactical would get something like 'Intercept Fire' that grants a movement boost and a taunt, Engineering would get something like 'Duranium Shadows' that grants immunity/resistance to system disables and a taunt, and Science would get something like 'Override Targeting Sensors' that grants additional defense/miss chance and a taunt. Those are just ideas off the top of my head, but space could really use a taunt equivalent.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
R.I.P
Only how to apply it to pvp?
Like a reversed feedback pulse? Vaccum cleaner effect that force directs all fire to the tank or maybe drain energy from all shots in an aoe?
IMO they should just add a beam version of cannon rapid fire and maybe do something about the energy drain of beams as it seems a bit much. That I feel would be more than enough to bring a cruiser into line as well as help sci ships that are pretty much stuck to beams.
It's really just the ships that have three ensign abilities of the same type that need this treatment - Galaxy, Defiant, Intrepid in particular, but also the Excelsior. It would go a long way toward making the canon ships more usable without making them broken combat monsters that no one can afford not to fly.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
SWtOR actually had a really good implementation of taunts for PvP - the taunted target deals less damage if they're not attacking the person who taunted them. Clean and elegant, lets the tank do their job (mitigating damage) and makes them a threat that the other team needs to pay attention to, without forcing control out of anyone's hands.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
It would be favortism to said ships with three of the same type Boffs in thier design.
If you are goi g to give a buff of a Ensign Uslot to just those ships with a perception of having a three of the same type boff design flaw in them, then you need to just go ahead and make all Ensign slots universal because any player can look at a ship with an ensign slot they think is superflrous and give arguement for it change to universal is all Im saying
R.I.P
To put it in an easier to follow structure I'll compare it to the structure from Battlestar Galactica.
cruisers/carriers = Galactica
escorts = Vipers
Sci = Raptors
Raptors being more armored than a viper and capable of high/highest damage (because of AOE) but at a lower fire rate.
Vipers being capable of mid-high damage at a higher fire rate, but less armored.
Galactica being extremely well armored and capable of high/highest damage but slower fire rate like a raptor.
This would make all three ship classes equal out against each other because each has it's own advantage/disadvantage. It would also eliminate this healer/support/attack triad bull**** that just doesn't work for this type of game.
Ships themselves need to be less centralized around the healer/support/attack. In a very limited way Cryptic has already done this with the 3 pack of ships, but they haven't gone far enough.
Ships need to be reclassified as Cruiser, Attack Vessel (formerly escorts), and Frigate (formerly sci) with universal boff stations, so that we can finally pick a ship based on appearance preference and base gameplay style and not on which one has the best layout for our particular captain class.
Turn Rates should also be more standardized, for example:
10 for Cruisers
15 for Frigate
20 for Attack Vessels
The point is we don't need ships to designed solely to perform special "jobs", we need them opened up so we as players can design our ships around the play style we want. Plenty of people prefer to play as a healer so why shouldn't they be able to fully customize an Attack Vessel to get in heal and get out but also able to defend itself in doing so. Drop the needlessly imposed limits and this game would completely open up and be the new discoveries of Star Trek Lore.
Also one last thing, the vertical pitch needs to be severely changed. Not saying we should be able to invert or do barrel rolls or anything crazy like that, but this is Star Trek NOT Napa Valley....we shouldn't have to corkscrew for anything.
Why should we not borrow an idea from WoW? It is not as if their developers would never take ideas from other games... Twist is a bit so that the link is not made immediately.
that my friend is the solution right there.in all other mmos thats what tanks do.lately i played swtor and reached lvl 50 jedi guardian.thats exactly what that class was good at as a tank.
i just wish the devs would find some way to implement this in this game
On the T5 ships I don't even want to see ensign slots! There should be nothing lower than the Lt on them. I'm sick of the random and nearly pointless ensign slots. Where Cryptic uses that ONE boff station to differentiate between ships. This is the 'engineering' escort while this is the 'science' one. please, give me a break.:rolleyes:
No arguement there. In the grand scheme of things at T5 ensign slots do seem out of place.
Still given the fact Universal ensigns always pop up in the this that or the other vessel is UP threads I say go ahead and make them all Uslots already.
If the Devs are willing to change all T5 ensign slots to LT instead, Id be happy.
R.I.P
The trinity isn't lazy, just an established norm. There are some games that have been able to avoid the trinity, but it typically means that you have complete freedom.
That wont work with STO in its current form, because of how consoles work and how ship balance works.
However, your description doesn't quite make sense. If a cruiser pummels things in an unwinnable battle of attrition, then they're not doing enough DPS. You want to kill things, not be in a stalemate until you and your opponent die of old age. The problem is that most things in the game are a DPS race.
No in the case of space combat in a game like this the useage of the typical trinity setup is lazy, and incredibly shortsighted. It's fine for the ground combat in STO: Sci is your healer, Eng your AOE tank and Tac is your close/mid range attacker.
However the second Cryptic conceptualized Tac/Sci/Eng Boff stations and abilities in general for space combat they destroyed any chance of the Trinity being viable and the very notion of using it for space combat should have died there.
Ships should have always been separated based on size and type of damage with all the abilities being secondary concerns. IE the Enterprise didn't use the Picard Maneuver every time they got into a conflict. Boff abilities should be looked at more as giving the crew orders than specials to be spammed the second the cooldown is over and overall determine the winner based on class.
The more the game evolves and progresses the more prominent the issues with using and RPG system in a Space combat game becomes.
however a new element is worth looking into... perhaps my signature could be of service????
cause sometimes its party time!
Maybe they should do a 2-1 split. Trade in two ensign slots for and additional lieutenant?
Wait, how would that work?
Would the Lt. Commander slot become a Lt. slot, so ships had four Lt. slots and one Commander?
Because if you took the Ensign slot from an existing Lt. slot, you'd still have an Ensign slot.
This is actually happening with specific Cruiser builds right now, in this game on Elite STFs.
Eardianm often hits well above 15K DPS, with records as high as 26k and 29k DPS.
Here's his thread on how to build it:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=654691
Please see above, and his build is not a "tank build".
He's out DPSing the Escorts by nearly double most of the time.
If people just tried a little harder, and cried a little less, than some of their issues could go away.
Although I am curious, how exactly would Escorts heal themselves "equal to cruisers" but in a different way?
Seconded!
Yep, in all seriousness.