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Give Cruisers 5 Fore and Aft Weapons/or Boost Power
captainrevo1
Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
A lot of people tend to think that cruisers are underpowered. Now while I don't want cruisers to just match escorts with DPS, I do think they need an improvement. Some have mentioned about making them more tankier, which is fine but not very exciting.
1) If we take the defiant and compare it to the galaxy or the sovereign. The defiant in the show has less weapon ports than what the game version has. (makes sense as its small). The cruisers are the opposite in game and have less weapon ports than the shows despite their huge size.
So to me it makes sense to give cruisers even more ports of 5/5 to not only make it fit the IP a little more, but to give cruisers a boost. 1 extra weapon slot over escorts at the moment does not cut it.
I don't think this should apply to either battlecruisers, as they already have the ability to mount cannons and tend to be a bit quicker on the turn, or carriers for their pets (they both may require tweaks in other areas if needs be but I already think they are superior to straight up cruisers).
2) The other solution might be to give cruisers more power levels so that they can boost more than just one area. At the moment people will most likely try to max out weapons, which leaves the other systems quite low. If you had enough power to max out weapons and still put substantial power into shields or auxiliary it would make them more versatile.
Science ships are also getting some apparent improvements with wider ability arcs and second deflectors so cruisers definitely need something to bring them up, and simple tanking seems a little bland.
1) If we take the defiant and compare it to the galaxy or the sovereign. The defiant in the show has less weapon ports than what the game version has. (makes sense as its small). The cruisers are the opposite in game and have less weapon ports than the shows despite their huge size.
So to me it makes sense to give cruisers even more ports of 5/5 to not only make it fit the IP a little more, but to give cruisers a boost. 1 extra weapon slot over escorts at the moment does not cut it.
I don't think this should apply to either battlecruisers, as they already have the ability to mount cannons and tend to be a bit quicker on the turn, or carriers for their pets (they both may require tweaks in other areas if needs be but I already think they are superior to straight up cruisers).
2) The other solution might be to give cruisers more power levels so that they can boost more than just one area. At the moment people will most likely try to max out weapons, which leaves the other systems quite low. If you had enough power to max out weapons and still put substantial power into shields or auxiliary it would make them more versatile.
Science ships are also getting some apparent improvements with wider ability arcs and second deflectors so cruisers definitely need something to bring them up, and simple tanking seems a little bland.
Post edited by captainrevo1 on
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Would put up the dps a bit, would be balanced somewhat by the added energy drain, and would still maintain the cannon benefit of escorts and battlecruisers.
I think playing around with power levels may push things too far the other way and perhaps make things too imbalanced against cruisers if they're able to thrown out an alright amount of damage, AND be able to heal/turn/shield up a load.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=654971
I would leave the power levels as it is though, and encourage the idea of juggling them more often. Perhaps a trait for cruiser captains that improve EPS transfer or something that would offer a nice little benefit but you'd still have to manage levels.
Why would they?
The point is the devs are the only ones who can add stuff to the same. if they agree that cruisers need something extra then whole point of going 5/5 is to balance cruisers up, not to then just increase escorts as well a bit later. if they do that then the whole exercise would become a waste of time and they might as well not change anything.
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
This was my initial reaction on reading the OP too. Didn't think it through, realistically.
Kirk's Protege.
I dont agree as Ive pulled off some all energy builds in the past with some success. i did use some single cannons and turrets so not just all beams, but it can be done. (so adding a couple of torps to that would have made it very deadly).
Torpedoes and mines can be used more with 2 front and back. with the 1 second cooldown between torps giving people a free extra torpedo per side is better than it not being there at all.
if you want more beams you can modify your build to try and reduce the drain or they can make adjustments to how beams work. perhaps knock down the drain per item. maybe beams drain too much as it is compared to cannons anyway?
Escorts and the new Destroyer-style Escorts are outperforming both significantly.
I am not sure if 5/5 slots is the solution, but it is about time that this gets recognized and Cryptic starts working on this.
I hope the upcoming D'deridex gets more than the so far planned 2 Tac Consoles and a better turnrate to begin with, even with these flaws corrected it is still a total underperformer compared to the Mogai and other Romulan ships.
There are numerous threads with please that especially iconic cruisers should not fail so hard, it's really about time that something gets done about this. Extremely focused Aux2Battery builds turning Cruisers into ships with less defense powers than an Escort are not the solution.
Whatever, more love for Cruisers, please!
I feel the cruiser needs more health and a better power output.
They shouldn't be able to DPS like Gods and tank like mofos as well.
Also, do you remember how you had to actually do in-mission repairs to your ship whilst in combat, just as if it were a real situation? You would be fighting off all manners of enemies whilst getting engineering to repair the warp core or deflector or sick bay etc.... them were fun times.
I wish the ships, particularly cruisers in this game were not so limited. It completely defeats the immersion in Trek at times. Just my two cents.:rolleyes:
Yes I've seen plenty, I've built one, and I know people that run them. Highly specialist Aux2Bat cruisers using the DEM doff to counter power drain. They have very little tanking ability (some, but not much) and do 10k DPS if you set up good keybinds, pilot well and pay attention.
Take that same min/maxer who has spent all that time and money on his cruiser getting as much DPS out of it as possible - and give him an escort and the same amount of time and effort - and he'll turn it into a 15-20k DPS machine. Hardly a viable argument when the cruiser still ends up well underperforming the escort.
But moost players aren't min/maxers with hundreds of millions of EC to spend on the best doffs and equipment. Most cruisers do 1-5k DPS in STFs and most Escorts do 3-7k.
Even in dedicated chat channels for STFs like ESTF and PESTF, the average for a run is barely above 4!
(EDIT: Plus these builds which rely on heavy aux2batt and BFAW abilities look ridiculous. A billion little lasers flying in every direction. lol.)
Kirk's Protege.
My initial reaction is that in the face of such an overhaul, the devs could change the energy drain mechanic of beams.
That's pretty much my response to the 10k cruiser build. It's kind of sad, since outside of an STF where you have an abundance of things that are unshielded or can remain unshielded long enough to their BFAW and torp spread spam to become useful, they're really ineffective for their high cruiser DPS. Popping beams all over the place, hitting shields that later regenerate, isn't meaningful DPS.
Being able to mount Dual (Heavy) Cannons on every ship the KDF has probably is more of a cannon thing then it actually being usefull.
Fitting Dual (Heavy) Cannons with a 45 degree arc on ANY cruiser type ship is for most players not fun to play with even if you use almost all ENG consol slots with high end RCS accelerators.
Personally I do not see the point of making distinction between FED and KDF. Both are ENG & Cruiser type ships... So why go through the trouble of typing something that makes no sense.
Why ask for an improvement for only FED and leave KDF BC's in the same **** you want FED cruisers raised from?
For me this dramaticly lowers the value of this suggestion...
Anyway if I look at your post as if I ignored the previously quoted statement...
Many on the forum have stated that this is currently Startrek : Escort Online.
Perhaps giving all cruisers AND science ships 1 additional weapon slot in front.
FED Current situation:
Cruisers: 4*4 - Escorts: 4*3 - Science: 3*3
FED New situation:
Cruisers: 5*4 - Escorts: 4*3 - Science: 4*3
KDF Current situation:
Battlecruisers: 4*4 - Raptors: 4*3 - Raiders: 4*2
KDF New situation:
Battlecruisers: 5*4 - Raptors: 4*3 - Raiders: 5*2
Both Escorts and Raptors will remain to have more TAC console slots and can therefor fit in more Tac damage consoles so will probably remain more powerfull then they were, but it gives the other ships a slight boost (you can wonder how much of an extra boost it would be considering the additional weapon power required to use it).
No please don't... I don't want a aft torpedo slot, unless they count the Kinetic Cutter Beam!!!
because in cannon there are no only Cannon/Beams ship builds or only torp ships they all have both
Subscribed For: 4 years 5 months 20 days at 26.10.2014
Actually, it's incredibly useful, and fun. If you're flying a K'tinga or Vor'Cha without cannons, you're pretty much doing yourself a disservice, since even just one RCS console is plenty to make them viable. You don't need to cram your engi slots full of them, especially for a lot of endgame content. NPCs tend to be horribly slow. There's only a handful that actually even use evasive maneuvers, and where they are headed when they do is predictable. STF spawns are predictable, cubes are slow; gates, gens, and trans don't move at all.
Apparently those 10k DPS cruisers are way way way better than anything an escort can do. According to people advising one player to switch to a star cruiser from their Wells. So they already are DPS gods.
It's barely meaningful DPS in a lot of STFs too.
See, when I pretty much said the exact same thing about Aux2Bat, I was told I'm terrible at this game, and called a bad person.
That's a different thing entirely.
Then again, I come from the days when STFs were actually far more difficult than they are now, one-shot torps were common, and 7k DPS was about max from an escort. And we still managed to get them done with the optional.
Frankly, I sit back in my seat and laugh my TRIBBLE of at most people who cry about their DPS in PVE, since you don't need anything more than common cruiser DPS to do pretty much everything in STO.
Yeah. But think of it this way. When you're over near the cube with all of the regnerators, and firing BFAW and it's hitting the cube and 6 generators, it's only doing meaningful damage to 3 generators. The other 3 gens and the cube are gaining it back too quick.
When you're at a transformer hitting it and 4 regenerators, you have to position yourself just right and then it's wasted damage on the transformer.
Stuff like that.
To me, the build is centered around a gimmick. For cruisers to be meaningful and contribute to this game's content I think some basic changes need to be made to the game's encounters and to cruisers themselves. A gimmick isn't the way things should go. That's my opinion anyways.
How about this, Cruisers get another shield slot and tactical get another engine slot?
Obviously for certain ships, size should come into it, i don't expect a defiant or bug ship to be big enough to have a totally separate impulse drive.
However an Akira might be suitable for such things as an example.
Though i guess it is likely to be unbalanced, but frankly, anything to improve the lives of cruiser and science vessels is desirable.
Why should a Cruiser be able to keep up with/surprass Escort damage? It shouldn't... Escorts are the damage/DPS dealers, not Cruisers.
It sounds like you want Cruisers to be Godkings... high DPS and supreme tanks.
You most certainly don't need a min/max'd build with Aux to Batt to pump out high DPS. Hell, my Tac is in a Vesta with 2x EPtW 1 and does some very impressive damage. And that's with a horribly scattered build - I don't even have 9/9 in Attack Patterns and nothing in the T5 weapon skills.
Your assessment is incorrect. I am a ToS Veteran and I was with Vexashen(creator of the 10k dps Galaxy build video).
AuxToBattery is not used by any of the Cruisers used in that video. And that fragile comment is a load of bull. Our cruisers are packing HE's TSS's, AuxToSif's etc etc. they are way more durable than any escort short of a 300 million ec bug(we compared and parse them all the time).
Brody