With all the new content from this last season and the upcoming additions to the game it would be nice to see an increase in the dilithium cap. I can grind out lots of dilithium each day but I am prevented from using it all. It becomes rather frustrating to spend hours grinding to fill a project or get some gear and then unable to use the dilithium I've EARNED due to the cap.
Use 2 characters to grind it all instead of 1, then your cap goes to 16k per day. I routinely refine between 15-20k per day.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
With all the new content from this last season and the upcoming additions to the game it would be nice to see an increase in the dilithium cap. I can grind out lots of dilithium each day but I am prevented from using it all. It becomes rather frustrating to spend hours grinding to fill a project or get some gear and then unable to use the dilithium I've EARNED due to the cap.
Roach
Executive Officer of Sector 31 ANTKB
The cap is what keep the market somewhat "stable" currently (as of this morning on 4-23-13 at 6am Central time) it is around 124 dil per zen. It was at one point (during promo) upto 134 dil per zen.
With a higher cap, there will be a bigger supply of Dil thus higher exchange rate per zen. (you want to keep it low for bang for bucks)
The limiting factors for zen is cash. The limiting factor for Dil is cap.
The cap is what keep the market somewhat "stable" currently (as of this morning on 4-23-13 at 6am Central time) it is around 124 dil per zen. It was at one point (during promo) upto 134 dil per zen.
With a higher cap, there will be a bigger supply of Dil thus higher exchange rate per zen. (you want to keep it low for bang for bucks)
The limiting factors for zen is cash. The limiting factor for Dil is cap.
^^ This.
Also, since Dilithium is central to STO's F2P model, it is one of many things which exist to encourage you to log in at least once every day. They don't want you to grind everything out over a weekend, then ignore the game during the week, or two weeks, or whenever you feel like coming back. They want you to log in every day. If you log in, you'll probably wind up hanging out and playing some stuff. If you're playing some stuff, maybe you'll buy something. Also, it's to help reduce player attrition by encouraging you to keep it part of your routine. It may annoy you, but the psychology totally works. You will come back every day to refine your dil, fill up your Doff assignments, refresh your reputation projects, kill the CE, etc.
Also, since Dilithium is central to STO's F2P model, it is one of many things which exist to encourage you to log in at least once every day. They don't want you to grind everything out over a weekend, then ignore the game during the week, or two weeks, or whenever you feel like coming back. They want you to log in every day. If you log in, you'll probably wind up hanging out and playing some stuff. If you're playing some stuff, maybe you'll buy something. Also, it's to help reduce player attrition by encouraging you to keep it part of your routine. It may annoy you, but the psychology totally works. You will come back every day to refine your dil, fill up your Doff assignments, refresh your reputation projects, kill the CE, etc.
Yup. even with lifetime, sometimes I want to get dil in a hurry (to get some new shiny) I will buy zen and put it on the exchange. That is what Cryptic is hoping you will do (or buy anything like ships, keys, Doff packs)
If they're not going to increase the cap, I think the pricing for alot of stuff needs to be looked at again. Maybe even allow the use of dilithium ore for some aspects of the game. I still think theres too many currencies again in this game, Cryptic wanted to simplify it and then they go complicate it again.
I'm still waiting for the so called Special Projects to come round again at 100k, the last time they offered them again they were still full price.
When you're looking at outfitting a ship with reputation weapons at, what, something like 35k-38k apiece, that's pretty daunting. I'm not sure it's too out of line though. We want that top shelf stuff to be hard to get and require some dedication to get there. Plus, as has been stated, you can get there faster by leveraging multiple characters.
My Klingon scrounges up at least 10 Contraband every day with a full load of Marauding assignments. I have him and my Fed both turn over some of that contraband at least once a day. That's 4k right there, right off the top. Add in prisoners, that's potentially another 1k. Then cash out all the Doffing my Fed did for another 1-1.5k. We're up to possibly 6.5k now just for Doffing. I might not max out the cap on both characters, but between the two I'm getting well more than 8k a day easily.
When you're looking at outfitting a ship with reputation weapons at, what, something like 35k-38k apiece, that's pretty daunting. I'm not sure it's too out of line though. We want that top shelf stuff to be hard to get and require some dedication to get there. Plus, as has been stated, you can get there faster by leveraging multiple characters.
My Klingon scrounges up at least 10 Contraband every day with a full load of Marauding assignments. I have him and my Fed both turn over some of that contraband at least once a day. That's 4k right there, right off the top. Add in prisoners, that's potentially another 1k. Then cash out all the Doffing my Fed did for another 1-1.5k. We're up to possibly 6.5k now just for Doffing. I might not max out the cap on both characters, but between the two I'm getting well more than 8k a day easily.
That is typical MMO gated content.
To get high end item in STO, you need refine dilithium. If it is easy to come by, then everyone will get it fast (via normal means) If you are in a hurry, then you have to spend CASH (to buy zen) to get more refine dlithium. This is a way to make money in F2P.
It is no different than any other MMO where you need Marks, tokens, scrolls, bullions or whatever to buy end game items.
My Dilithium Ore is piling up and seems to be useless as i have exceeded the refining cap of a tiny 8000 a day.
The Ore could be used in useful projects if the Devs switch from refined to ore instead.
One simple little alteration will not affect cryptic/pwe money grabbing ways surely.
Except that Dilithium only has value because it can't be refined in large quantities; if you remove the cap or even just increase it then you devalue the Dilithium of everyone, and reduce the cost of ZEN which means more people getting paid ships for free.
If you're having such trouble with ore piling up then stop producing it! A stockpile of ore is several days where you only need to be online long enough to refine some ore; ideal if you're going to be busy or otherwise struggle to get online for long for whatever reason.
If you devalue dilithium you increase the cost of Zen. Side issue I know.
On the matter at hand it might be an idea to allow some of the minor but annoying sinks to use unrefined dilithium if it is a DOFF or rep mission. For crafting reduce the cost of the common and uncommon unreplicated items and make it use unrefined dilithium, but to make up for this make the items BoA so they can't be sold on. This would be as well as the current way this works in crafting thereby allowing people a choice.
To me it would be better to remove it from crafting entirely, I have no idea why they put it there in the first place, unless it was a sink, in which case there are now more and better ons out there so it is not needed anymore anyway.
Another possability is to make some of the unrefined dilithium rewards refined instead, DOFF missions and those crates you sometimes get from missions or events like the Borg alert call at lower levels as they don't rewards marks at that level. Maybe have a cut off point, if the reward is 500 dilithium or less it is refined.
With all the new content from this last season and the upcoming additions to the game it would be nice to see an increase in the dilithium cap. I can grind out lots of dilithium each day but I am prevented from using it all. It becomes rather frustrating to spend hours grinding to fill a project or get some gear and then unable to use the dilithium I've EARNED due to the cap.
Roach
Executive Officer of Sector 31 ANTKB
You're not Roach!
LIAR!
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
If you devalue dilithium you increase the cost of Zen. Side issue I know.
On the matter at hand it might be an idea to allow some of the minor but annoying sinks to use unrefined dilithium if it is a DOFF or rep mission. For crafting reduce the cost of the common and uncommon unreplicated items and make it use unrefined dilithium, but to make up for this make the items BoA so they can't be sold on. This would be as well as the current way this works in crafting thereby allowing people a choice.
To me it would be better to remove it from crafting entirely, I have no idea why they put it there in the first place, unless it was a sink, in which case there are now more and better ons out there so it is not needed anymore anyway.
Another possability is to make some of the unrefined dilithium rewards refined instead, DOFF missions and those crates you sometimes get from missions or events like the Borg alert call at lower levels as they don't rewards marks at that level. Maybe have a cut off point, if the reward is 500 dilithium or less it is refined.
People play the game differently. There are people who craft all day long and that is their dill sink. Fleet contribution for those who are in fleet (not everyone are in fleet) has a sink. Personal upgrade is another sink.
They exist so each area has their own particular sink to promote the NEED for refined dilithium (hence produce a DEMAND across the board and thus allow a market to exist and exchange for zen)
Making DoFF mission reward REFINED dilithium would just increase the cap arbitrary (even if can only be done once a day, 3 times a day or even once a week) since everyone (at least majority) will take advantage of that DOFF mission.
The current market exist due these multiple sink. A solo player (like myself) dabbles in ALL fields and thus feels the need for more refined. I have two options. Buy zen and sell for refined dil (Cryptic wants this) or have patience and hoard my refined dil. Before I join a fleet or crafting, I actually have an abundance of refined dil. Due to recent release of many bundles, I have been converting to zen (and even bought more zen) to buy these items.
If you notice the market, there is a rise in demand for Zen (but shortage due to players not buying them and/or economy) I remember less than 2 months ago it was around 80 to 90 dil to 1 zen. Now (as of yesterday) it is 123 dil per zen.
If you remove any of the sink (i.e. crafting) that will change the variable in economic and probably increase dil to zen conversion.
People play the game differently. There are people who craft all day long and that is their dill sink. Fleet contribution for those who are in fleet (not everyone are in fleet) has a sink. Personal upgrade is another sink.
Hence why I said it could be have both systems in. Thereby leaving the choice in place.
Making DoFF mission reward REFINED dilithium would just increase the cap arbitrary (even if can only be done once a day, 3 times a day or even once a week) since everyone (at least majority) will take advantage of that DOFF mission.
Given the small amount it is hardly an increase in the cap. However the perception of such a change can be quite large even if the effect is neglagible in real tearm.
If you notice the market, there is a rise in demand for Zen (but shortage due to players not buying them and/or economy) I remember less than 2 months ago it was around 80 to 90 dil to 1 zen. Now (as of yesterday) it is 123 dil per zen.
More than likely people are stock piling it for LoR Zen ships, thereby removing it from the market and increasing the worth of Zen through the exchange. I remember the days of 200+dil for Zen, by those standards it is still cheap at 120+dil prices. When the LoR Zen ships are out and people have gotten the ones they want and whatever other new stuff is coming to the Zen Store at that time then the Zen will more than likely be devalued again as more people start to sell it off.
Hence why I said it could be have both systems in. Thereby leaving the choice in place.
But by having both system, why even use the Refined Dil version? People will usually find the "cheapest/effective" way to do things. that include gaming. It would be self defeating.
Given the small amount it is hardly an increase in the cap. However the perception of such a change can be quite large even if the effect is neglagible in real tearm.
.
Individually it is small, but when you add like 1000 players... even at 50, that is 50k dil. 100, 100k. dil etc etc.
Hello,
I have a question that is somewhat bothering me.
I have a maxed level toon on the Federation Side. At this moment I have enough Dilithium Ore to give me 11 Days of Refined Dilithium at the current cap of refining Dilithium. (8,000 per 24 hours)
My question is this, since there are a lot of toons that at maxed level now, why not make it where the cap on refining Dilithium increses as well?
I can easily get 8,000 to 10,000 Ore in the 24 hr cooldown of refining just from doing Dailies, which have a 20hr cooldown. I can do this in about 2hrs from the time I start and that is is including waiting for ques to pop and traveling to places. In 4 to 5 days, I can get anyone to have a stockpile of Ore reguardles of the size of fleet they might be in. At this time I am in a Level 3 Fleet with 16 members, but only 4 are very active.
Another idea - Why not make the Refining Dilithium be on a 20hr cooldown as well? That way, people can use the ore for projects in their Fleets and in the Reputations while they will spend time doing other things in the game. I fully understand why the Developers would want to keep a lid on the player economy. I also play WOW, and the economy there is at times bad. However, making the Refining of the Dilithium match the Intake of the Ore from dailies sounds like a good way to keep the stockpiling down and still keep control of the Player Economy.
Please do not think I am crying about the GMs not willing to increase the cap of Refined Dilithium. Also not everyone is able to but the ZEN, or qualifies for surveys to get Free ZEN.
Just a thought from a humble gamer.
Eagle, Vice Admrial
USS Seattle
Spooky's Army
Alpha Squad Member
Fleet Operations Officer
Membership Details
Free to play - March 2013 Monthly Subscription - July 2013 Lifetime Member - Oct 2014
Well Matok, the reason for not increasing the refining amount based on level is because it is trivial to get to max level in this game. I got to max level in 2-3 weeks simply doing the episodes. And I don't mean I grinded or repeated or anything, just zipped right through and bam, max level.
Compared to say, the old City of Heroes game where it took me like 2 years to get my first level 50 by casually running story content.
If getting to 50 was long, difficult and all that, then I can see how such a reward would be logical. But in this case? Meh.
Hello,
I have a question that is somewhat bothering me.
I have a maxed level toon on the Federation Side. At this moment I have enough Dilithium Ore to give me 11 Days of Refined Dilithium at the current cap of refining Dilithium. (8,000 per 24 hours)
My question is this, since there are a lot of toons that at maxed level now, why not make it where the cap on refining Dilithium increses as well?
I can easily get 8,000 to 10,000 Ore in the 24 hr cooldown of refining just from doing Dailies, which have a 20hr cooldown. I can do this in about 2hrs from the time I start and that is is including waiting for ques to pop and traveling to places. In 4 to 5 days, I can get anyone to have a stockpile of Ore reguardles of the size of fleet they might be in. At this time I am in a Level 3 Fleet with 16 members, but only 4 are very active.
Another idea - Why not make the Refining Dilithium be on a 20hr cooldown as well? That way, people can use the ore for projects in their Fleets and in the Reputations while they will spend time doing other things in the game. I fully understand why the Developers would want to keep a lid on the player economy. I also play WOW, and the economy there is at times bad. However, making the Refining of the Dilithium match the Intake of the Ore from dailies sounds like a good way to keep the stockpiling down and still keep control of the Player Economy.
Please do not think I am crying about the GMs not willing to increase the cap of Refined Dilithium. Also not everyone is able to but the ZEN, or qualifies for surveys to get Free ZEN.
Just a thought from a humble gamer.
Eagle, Vice Admrial
USS Seattle
Spooky's Army
Alpha Squad Member
Fleet Operations Officer
The idea wouldn't work as well because the current price of Zen reflects how much Refine Dilithium are in the market. If you increase the cap, that will devalue it. Simple Economic really. Supply and Demand.
Remember when the system was first introduce and people were converting MARKS into Dilithium? there was a surge in the market.
Same thing is happening NWN (another PWE game so we can talk about it here) There was NO Zen on the market but max trade value is 500. So now the market is around 400 AD (Astral Diamond) to 1 zen. Eventually it will balance out as more people buy zen for THAT game.
If you increase daily refined, it will just make it cost higher (right now it is 130ish as of this morning) if increasing by 10% would probably raise the Dil to zen to 143ish per 1 zen.
note: the limited supply is Zen. (It require CASH to get it and put on the market) The "unlimited" supply is Dilithium (you can earn as much as you want as long you play and refine) the limited factor is HOW much you can refine PER day (times how many players total who convert) now you have a market.
Comments
That was the ambiguous you not you specificaly.
To clarifiy further, the cap is there for the sole reason of annoying anyone who gets cut off mere tens or hundreds from what they need.
Try not to take everything so personally.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Acknowledge that DOFF missions exist.
Repeat as necessary.
Refining cap = a self imposed thing for lazy people. Nothing more.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Roach
Executive Officer of Sector 31 ANTKB
The cap is what keep the market somewhat "stable" currently (as of this morning on 4-23-13 at 6am Central time) it is around 124 dil per zen. It was at one point (during promo) upto 134 dil per zen.
With a higher cap, there will be a bigger supply of Dil thus higher exchange rate per zen. (you want to keep it low for bang for bucks)
The limiting factors for zen is cash. The limiting factor for Dil is cap.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
^^ This.
Also, since Dilithium is central to STO's F2P model, it is one of many things which exist to encourage you to log in at least once every day. They don't want you to grind everything out over a weekend, then ignore the game during the week, or two weeks, or whenever you feel like coming back. They want you to log in every day. If you log in, you'll probably wind up hanging out and playing some stuff. If you're playing some stuff, maybe you'll buy something. Also, it's to help reduce player attrition by encouraging you to keep it part of your routine. It may annoy you, but the psychology totally works. You will come back every day to refine your dil, fill up your Doff assignments, refresh your reputation projects, kill the CE, etc.
Yup. even with lifetime, sometimes I want to get dil in a hurry (to get some new shiny) I will buy zen and put it on the exchange. That is what Cryptic is hoping you will do (or buy anything like ships, keys, Doff packs)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I'm still waiting for the so called Special Projects to come round again at 100k, the last time they offered them again they were still full price.
My Klingon scrounges up at least 10 Contraband every day with a full load of Marauding assignments. I have him and my Fed both turn over some of that contraband at least once a day. That's 4k right there, right off the top. Add in prisoners, that's potentially another 1k. Then cash out all the Doffing my Fed did for another 1-1.5k. We're up to possibly 6.5k now just for Doffing. I might not max out the cap on both characters, but between the two I'm getting well more than 8k a day easily.
That is typical MMO gated content.
To get high end item in STO, you need refine dilithium. If it is easy to come by, then everyone will get it fast (via normal means) If you are in a hurry, then you have to spend CASH (to buy zen) to get more refine dlithium. This is a way to make money in F2P.
It is no different than any other MMO where you need Marks, tokens, scrolls, bullions or whatever to buy end game items.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
If you're having such trouble with ore piling up then stop producing it! A stockpile of ore is several days where you only need to be online long enough to refine some ore; ideal if you're going to be busy or otherwise struggle to get online for long for whatever reason.
Game Balance - Ship Size and Wingmates
On the matter at hand it might be an idea to allow some of the minor but annoying sinks to use unrefined dilithium if it is a DOFF or rep mission. For crafting reduce the cost of the common and uncommon unreplicated items and make it use unrefined dilithium, but to make up for this make the items BoA so they can't be sold on. This would be as well as the current way this works in crafting thereby allowing people a choice.
To me it would be better to remove it from crafting entirely, I have no idea why they put it there in the first place, unless it was a sink, in which case there are now more and better ons out there so it is not needed anymore anyway.
Another possability is to make some of the unrefined dilithium rewards refined instead, DOFF missions and those crates you sometimes get from missions or events like the Borg alert call at lower levels as they don't rewards marks at that level. Maybe have a cut off point, if the reward is 500 dilithium or less it is refined.
You're not Roach!
LIAR!
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
People play the game differently. There are people who craft all day long and that is their dill sink. Fleet contribution for those who are in fleet (not everyone are in fleet) has a sink. Personal upgrade is another sink.
They exist so each area has their own particular sink to promote the NEED for refined dilithium (hence produce a DEMAND across the board and thus allow a market to exist and exchange for zen)
Making DoFF mission reward REFINED dilithium would just increase the cap arbitrary (even if can only be done once a day, 3 times a day or even once a week) since everyone (at least majority) will take advantage of that DOFF mission.
The current market exist due these multiple sink. A solo player (like myself) dabbles in ALL fields and thus feels the need for more refined. I have two options. Buy zen and sell for refined dil (Cryptic wants this) or have patience and hoard my refined dil. Before I join a fleet or crafting, I actually have an abundance of refined dil. Due to recent release of many bundles, I have been converting to zen (and even bought more zen) to buy these items.
If you notice the market, there is a rise in demand for Zen (but shortage due to players not buying them and/or economy) I remember less than 2 months ago it was around 80 to 90 dil to 1 zen. Now (as of yesterday) it is 123 dil per zen.
If you remove any of the sink (i.e. crafting) that will change the variable in economic and probably increase dil to zen conversion.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Hence why I said it could be have both systems in. Thereby leaving the choice in place.
Given the small amount it is hardly an increase in the cap. However the perception of such a change can be quite large even if the effect is neglagible in real tearm.
More than likely people are stock piling it for LoR Zen ships, thereby removing it from the market and increasing the worth of Zen through the exchange. I remember the days of 200+dil for Zen, by those standards it is still cheap at 120+dil prices. When the LoR Zen ships are out and people have gotten the ones they want and whatever other new stuff is coming to the Zen Store at that time then the Zen will more than likely be devalued again as more people start to sell it off.
But by having both system, why even use the Refined Dil version? People will usually find the "cheapest/effective" way to do things. that include gaming. It would be self defeating.
Individually it is small, but when you add like 1000 players... even at 50, that is 50k dil. 100, 100k. dil etc etc.
That is only 1000 players.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I have a question that is somewhat bothering me.
I have a maxed level toon on the Federation Side. At this moment I have enough Dilithium Ore to give me 11 Days of Refined Dilithium at the current cap of refining Dilithium. (8,000 per 24 hours)
My question is this, since there are a lot of toons that at maxed level now, why not make it where the cap on refining Dilithium increses as well?
I can easily get 8,000 to 10,000 Ore in the 24 hr cooldown of refining just from doing Dailies, which have a 20hr cooldown. I can do this in about 2hrs from the time I start and that is is including waiting for ques to pop and traveling to places. In 4 to 5 days, I can get anyone to have a stockpile of Ore reguardles of the size of fleet they might be in. At this time I am in a Level 3 Fleet with 16 members, but only 4 are very active.
Another idea - Why not make the Refining Dilithium be on a 20hr cooldown as well? That way, people can use the ore for projects in their Fleets and in the Reputations while they will spend time doing other things in the game. I fully understand why the Developers would want to keep a lid on the player economy. I also play WOW, and the economy there is at times bad. However, making the Refining of the Dilithium match the Intake of the Ore from dailies sounds like a good way to keep the stockpiling down and still keep control of the Player Economy.
Please do not think I am crying about the GMs not willing to increase the cap of Refined Dilithium. Also not everyone is able to but the ZEN, or qualifies for surveys to get Free ZEN.
Just a thought from a humble gamer.
Eagle, Vice Admrial
USS Seattle
Spooky's Army
Alpha Squad Member
Fleet Operations Officer
Free to play - March 2013
Monthly Subscription - July 2013
Lifetime Member - Oct 2014
Compared to say, the old City of Heroes game where it took me like 2 years to get my first level 50 by casually running story content.
If getting to 50 was long, difficult and all that, then I can see how such a reward would be logical. But in this case? Meh.
The idea wouldn't work as well because the current price of Zen reflects how much Refine Dilithium are in the market. If you increase the cap, that will devalue it. Simple Economic really. Supply and Demand.
Remember when the system was first introduce and people were converting MARKS into Dilithium? there was a surge in the market.
Same thing is happening NWN (another PWE game so we can talk about it here) There was NO Zen on the market but max trade value is 500. So now the market is around 400 AD (Astral Diamond) to 1 zen. Eventually it will balance out as more people buy zen for THAT game.
If you increase daily refined, it will just make it cost higher (right now it is 130ish as of this morning) if increasing by 10% would probably raise the Dil to zen to 143ish per 1 zen.
note: the limited supply is Zen. (It require CASH to get it and put on the market) The "unlimited" supply is Dilithium (you can earn as much as you want as long you play and refine) the limited factor is HOW much you can refine PER day (times how many players total who convert) now you have a market.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.