Ok, I liberated/unimatrix zero/hugh faction is possible, but I am not sure it would satisfy many of the Borg fans.
A unimatrix zero style Borg faction would satisfy the fans about as well as a Romulan Republic farmboy turned Mogai captain would satisfy Romulan fans.
Yes, but this is the Borg we're talking about. If they make evil Borg - it's the collective. There are no individuals in the collective, you can't make a player faction without making the Borg a complete joke.
Not evil Borg - we're back to Borg hippies! Frankly I don't know which one is worse.
I sincerely hope this kind of thing never happens. There are at least a dozen factions in Star Trek more apropriate to became player factions than the Borg.
A unimatrix zero style Borg faction would satisfy the fans about as well as a Romulan Republic farmboy turned Mogai captain would satisfy Romulan fans.
Hey! Cryptic!
Shpoks, Snoggymack, you both seem to forget about the Borg Cooperative. :rolleyes:
Moved thread... topic doesn't belong in the Klingon Gameplay forum
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A unimatrix zero style Borg faction would satisfy the fans about as well as a Romulan Republic farmboy turned Mogai captain would satisfy Romulan fans.
Hey! Cryptic!
Ha ha! Although I have to wonder what the "fans" of the Borg would want to play. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play as a member of the collective rather than a Liberated group.
As for that, I don't really see the point. People can already play Liberated Borg, and based on the Romulans, they would get a few unique missions, some ships, and then they'd be off to join the Fed, KDF, or maybe even Rom factions. I guess they could limit certain races so that lifers get the Humans, Klingons, and Romulans, but I just don't see a Borg faction happening outside of some sort of "monster play" or something similar. Maybe for a mission or two when characters have to infiltrate the Collective or something, who knows.
Also, you can actually already play as a Borg. Go into an STF or beam down to Otha, and get yourself infected with nanites. A few short moments later, you'll be trying to assimilate your buddies with the best of them!
Not sure the Ferengi would make a good faction either to be honest. The Ferengi Alliance isn't a major power in a political/military sense. They are traders, granted some like that idea, but I am not sure it makes for a fun game.
The Ferengi by themselves might not work, but there's probably some potential for a trader group, or something.
Borg have need thown out there as a possible long term faction for a while. There are some who love the idea, there are some, like you, who hate it.
Not sure the Ferengi would make a good faction either to be honest. The Ferengi Alliance isn't a major power in a political/military sense. They are traders, granted some like that idea, but I am not sure it makes for a fun game.
i can imagine a ferengi faction as long as class faction was introduced into the alliance system.
but the borg? it would need to be balanced which is an impossible challenge; imagine a team of 5 borg players with tac cubes all of them using their cubes and that advantages to the limit, and place them in pvp with 5 rommes, or kdf or feds. if they can deconstruct the fed, kdf and rommies without any issue then pve would be no challenge at all. where as if the cubes were balanced out, it wouldnt be borg and the npc borg would have to be adjusted accordingly.
the only way around this is full assimilated ships from all three races, starting off in any t1 ship with borg bits everywhere, heightened regen abilities, cutting beams, tractor pulses, borg plasma beams and plasma torpedoes and that beam in ability. clearly that can be balanced out, but it wouldnt really be borg would it? you would still be playing a fed or kdf or rommie cruiser that was assimilated.
i just can not see it happening.
as for liberated borg collective of sorts, like the borg resistance from voyager? axem, laura and general korok for example. it is workable but because they are hunted by the borg, i doubt their bases are anywhere near the collective and even if the resistance was still around, like all lifeforms, grow old and die despite the nanoprobes and cybernetics, i can imagine the resistance is no longer the threat it once was.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I would argue till blue in the face, fight tooth and nail, shout it from the rooftops and generally pitch a fit against a Borg player faction. No no no no NO, for the many reasons already stated.
Borg? Strong? Please excuse me while I solo this Tactical Cube once again.
not writing about an npc borg that cant use it's abilties well, even if its normal or elite difficulty. a player on the other hand would make use of that ship and your sarcasm and humor will quickly turn into a pale straight face when your defeated everytime, and you cant damage its shields beyond 10% of its shield hp even with the best kit you got .
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
not writing about an npc borg that cant use it's abilties well, even if its normal or elite difficulty. a player on the other hand would make use of that ship and your sarcasm and humor will quickly turn into a pale straight face when your defeated everytime, and you cant damage its shields beyond 10% of its shield hp even with the best kit you got .
That just sounds like regular PvP to me sometimes. XD
i can imagine a ferengi faction as long as class faction was introduced into the alliance system.
but the borg? it would need to be balanced which is an impossible challenge; imagine a team of 5 borg players with tac cubes all of them using their cubes and that advantages to the limit, and place them in pvp with 5 rommes, or kdf or feds. if they can deconstruct the fed, kdf and rommies without any issue then pve would be no challenge at all. where as if the cubes were balanced out, it wouldnt be borg and the npc borg would have to be adjusted accordingly.
the only way around this is full assimilated ships from all three races, starting off in any t1 ship with borg bits everywhere, heightened regen abilities, cutting beams, tractor pulses, borg plasma beams and plasma torpedoes and that beam in ability. clearly that can be balanced out, but it wouldnt really be borg would it? you would still be playing a fed or kdf or rommie cruiser that was assimilated.
i just can not see it happening.
as for liberated borg collective of sorts, like the borg resistance from voyager? axem, laura and general korok for example. it is workable but because they are hunted by the borg, i doubt their bases are anywhere near the collective and even if the resistance was still around, like all lifeforms, grow old and die despite the nanoprobes and cybernetics, i can imagine the resistance is no longer the threat it once was.
Natural reproduction seems inevitable here.
Remember Borg can do it. Sure they typically don't reproduce in the collective, but a neo-collective of liberated borg probably would.
The other reason is they as well as their ships are too powerful and would imbalance game play.
Nope. STO makes the Borg ships balanced, and somewhat underpowered. Definitely something that could fit into the current framework of playable ships.
Granted STO's timeline puts the game a couple centuries beyond the TNG, DS9, & Voyager so they Borg aren't nearly as unstoppable as they once were.
A couple of centuries?
And if you make them liberated Borg then it kills the lifer reward
No it doesn't. Playable Klingons on the fed side does nothing to sully the KDF faction. Playable Romulans are going to be used on both sides of that faction fence. The paid for Mirror Universe uniforms didn't kill that lifer reward. And so on and so forth.
and once liberated I'm sure these folk are going to be headed home rather hang around other liberated drones.
That didn't work out too good for Icheb. The going home part.
Nope. STO makes the Borg ships balanced, and somewhat underpowered. Definitely something that could fit into the current framework of playable ships.
A couple of centuries?
No it doesn't. Playable Klingons on the fed side does nothing to sully the KDF faction. Playable Romulans are going to be used on both sides of that faction fence. The paid for Mirror Universe uniforms didn't kill that lifer reward. And so on and so forth.
That didn't work out too good for Icheb. The going home part.
As someone has already pointed out a player controlled cube would be a force to be reckoned with. If they nerf the ships to balance them against the other factions then it wouldn't work either, how would you explain why player ships don't have the same abilities as the PVE ones and make it plausible. All around its a nerdy munchkin idea.
Sorry if I'm off on the timeline, I'm not really into the details. I could care less about the stardate or what episode Kirk kissed a tribble. I do know its a ways past the TNG era and there would be advancements in technology that would counter the Borg making them less the threat than they once was. Which validates your above statement about STO making the Borg underpowered from what we seen in the episodes.
The Fed Klingon was added to please the Worf groupies, its just a race added to the faction and not a separate faction of orphaned Klingons. Which is basically what they will be doing with the liberated Borg. Whether it hurts the lifer reward or not its still a dumb idea.
While not all might be able to go home most will. To look at it sensibly put yourself in that situation. Once liberated are you going to hang around and try and form your own Lib Borg nation or are you going to try and find a way home to your family, friends, career, and the life you once had?
While not all might be able to go home most will. To look at it sensibly put yourself in that situation. Once liberated are you going to hang around and try and form your own Lib Borg nation or are you going to try and find a way home to your family, friends, career, and the life you once had?
Canon suggests they follow anyone giving them true leadership - whether that's Lore or Hugh. They're not trying to get home in canon. They're trying to live with the idea that they are cut-off from the whole and as much machine as man.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Canon suggests they follow anyone giving them true leadership - whether that's Lore or Hugh. They're not trying to get home in canon. They're trying to live with the idea that they are cut-off from the whole and as much machine as man.
Its the inability for them to take leadership and make decisions for themselves or the "I think therefor I am" equation that makes them non-viable for player faction status. The only folks that think a Borg faction is a good idea spend long hours in a dark room spanking the monkey to posters of the Borg Queen.
Its the inability for them to take leadership and make decisions for themselves or the "I think therefor I am" equation that makes them non-viable for player faction status. The only folks that think a Borg faction is a good idea spend long hours in a dark room spanking the monkey to posters of the Borg Queen.
Except at the end of Descent we see that Hugh has stepped up to take leadership of the liberated borg. So now some 40 years later you have a borg society.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I could see a Liberated Borg faction, where the disparate Borg survivors (remember that story-wise, the Queen is dead and the Borg are destroyed due to the events of the Hive STF) band together to try and form their own society. But that wouldn't be a player faction- perhaps a reputation faction.
Its the inability for them to take leadership and make decisions for themselves or the "I think therefor I am" equation that makes them non-viable for player faction status. The only folks that think a Borg faction is a good idea spend long hours in a dark room spanking the monkey to posters of the Borg Queen.
We are talking about a liberated faction that has regained its individuality. yes they will be confused, leaderless to begin with after being dependant on the collective for so long, but you cant say no one one step forward to become a leader.
seven on nine is a prime example. she gets used to being separated to the point where she makes her own choices. if she can do it then any liberated borg can. especially as we already have liberated borgs in this game as our characters and bridge officers.
a number of different factions but the same basic thing with the borg;
the cooperative; a small collective of former drones that instead of the forceful assimilation of species and an overriding purpose forced to the drones to do a task, each former drone has the ability to think independently within the collective while sharing work and provisions. as janeway put it, how long can their ideals last though?
the borg resistance, a scattered group of unimatrix 001 individuals retain their independence after what appears to be a fault in the assimilation process. they were cut off from the borg queen when a virus was released into the collective through a cube by the uss voyager crew, in so doing the virus transferred the unimatrix personalities into these drones who fight the collective for survival and regain their lost honor.
Hugh's collective, a group of disconnected drones experimented on by Lore before the dominion war, they have their free will but appear to be more belligerent then that of other disconnected drones due to what lore did and Hugh's inability to properly command these drones at first.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
We are talking about a liberated faction that has regained its individuality. yes they will be confused, leaderless to begin with after being dependant on the collective for so long, but you cant say no one one step forward to become a leader.
seven on nine is a prime example. she gets used to being separated to the point where she makes her own choices. if she can do it then any liberated borg can. especially as we already have liberated borgs in this game as our characters and bridge officers.
Ok between you and cosmic1's logic I believe it could be possible. And I would support it "IF" Cryptic has a plausible back story as to how/why they form a society. Personally they need to ask you 2 to write it since you guys already have the details in mind and they make sense.
In any game where borg have been playable, even just making them slightly as powerful compared to how they were seen on TV has made them riddiculously OP like in Star Trek Armada 1 and 2, and Starfleet Command 3.
Borg faction would be bad for the game, it would either be balanced and feel nothing like being the borg except for having borg ship skins, or it would be OP if it were to be accurate.
Idea: Why not balance team capacity based on the power of the Borg?
For example, in PvP, why not have 1 Borg cube queue against an entire team of 5 Starfleet ships? Or 2-3 spheres? Or 5 rectangles/probes?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Comments
A unimatrix zero style Borg faction would satisfy the fans about as well as a Romulan Republic farmboy turned Mogai captain would satisfy Romulan fans.
Hey! Cryptic!
Shpoks, Snoggymack, you both seem to forget about the Borg Cooperative. :rolleyes:
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Ha ha! Although I have to wonder what the "fans" of the Borg would want to play. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play as a member of the collective rather than a Liberated group.
As for that, I don't really see the point. People can already play Liberated Borg, and based on the Romulans, they would get a few unique missions, some ships, and then they'd be off to join the Fed, KDF, or maybe even Rom factions. I guess they could limit certain races so that lifers get the Humans, Klingons, and Romulans, but I just don't see a Borg faction happening outside of some sort of "monster play" or something similar. Maybe for a mission or two when characters have to infiltrate the Collective or something, who knows.
Also, you can actually already play as a Borg. Go into an STF or beam down to Otha, and get yourself infected with nanites. A few short moments later, you'll be trying to assimilate your buddies with the best of them!
The Ferengi by themselves might not work, but there's probably some potential for a trader group, or something.
i can imagine a ferengi faction as long as class faction was introduced into the alliance system.
but the borg? it would need to be balanced which is an impossible challenge; imagine a team of 5 borg players with tac cubes all of them using their cubes and that advantages to the limit, and place them in pvp with 5 rommes, or kdf or feds. if they can deconstruct the fed, kdf and rommies without any issue then pve would be no challenge at all. where as if the cubes were balanced out, it wouldnt be borg and the npc borg would have to be adjusted accordingly.
the only way around this is full assimilated ships from all three races, starting off in any t1 ship with borg bits everywhere, heightened regen abilities, cutting beams, tractor pulses, borg plasma beams and plasma torpedoes and that beam in ability. clearly that can be balanced out, but it wouldnt really be borg would it? you would still be playing a fed or kdf or rommie cruiser that was assimilated.
i just can not see it happening.
as for liberated borg collective of sorts, like the borg resistance from voyager? axem, laura and general korok for example. it is workable but because they are hunted by the borg, i doubt their bases are anywhere near the collective and even if the resistance was still around, like all lifeforms, grow old and die despite the nanoprobes and cybernetics, i can imagine the resistance is no longer the threat it once was.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
No.
not writing about an npc borg that cant use it's abilties well, even if its normal or elite difficulty. a player on the other hand would make use of that ship and your sarcasm and humor will quickly turn into a pale straight face when your defeated everytime, and you cant damage its shields beyond 10% of its shield hp even with the best kit you got
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That just sounds like regular PvP to me sometimes. XD
Borg or Ferengi ~ I vote against.
Remember Borg can do it. Sure they typically don't reproduce in the collective, but a neo-collective of liberated borg probably would.
My character Tsin'xing
Nope. STO makes the Borg ships balanced, and somewhat underpowered. Definitely something that could fit into the current framework of playable ships.
A couple of centuries?
No it doesn't. Playable Klingons on the fed side does nothing to sully the KDF faction. Playable Romulans are going to be used on both sides of that faction fence. The paid for Mirror Universe uniforms didn't kill that lifer reward. And so on and so forth.
That didn't work out too good for Icheb. The going home part.
As someone has already pointed out a player controlled cube would be a force to be reckoned with. If they nerf the ships to balance them against the other factions then it wouldn't work either, how would you explain why player ships don't have the same abilities as the PVE ones and make it plausible. All around its a nerdy munchkin idea.
Sorry if I'm off on the timeline, I'm not really into the details. I could care less about the stardate or what episode Kirk kissed a tribble. I do know its a ways past the TNG era and there would be advancements in technology that would counter the Borg making them less the threat than they once was. Which validates your above statement about STO making the Borg underpowered from what we seen in the episodes.
The Fed Klingon was added to please the Worf groupies, its just a race added to the faction and not a separate faction of orphaned Klingons. Which is basically what they will be doing with the liberated Borg. Whether it hurts the lifer reward or not its still a dumb idea.
While not all might be able to go home most will. To look at it sensibly put yourself in that situation. Once liberated are you going to hang around and try and form your own Lib Borg nation or are you going to try and find a way home to your family, friends, career, and the life you once had?
Its the inability for them to take leadership and make decisions for themselves or the "I think therefor I am" equation that makes them non-viable for player faction status. The only folks that think a Borg faction is a good idea spend long hours in a dark room spanking the monkey to posters of the Borg Queen.
We are talking about a liberated faction that has regained its individuality. yes they will be confused, leaderless to begin with after being dependant on the collective for so long, but you cant say no one one step forward to become a leader.
seven on nine is a prime example. she gets used to being separated to the point where she makes her own choices. if she can do it then any liberated borg can. especially as we already have liberated borgs in this game as our characters and bridge officers.
the cooperative; a small collective of former drones that instead of the forceful assimilation of species and an overriding purpose forced to the drones to do a task, each former drone has the ability to think independently within the collective while sharing work and provisions. as janeway put it, how long can their ideals last though?
the borg resistance, a scattered group of unimatrix 001 individuals retain their independence after what appears to be a fault in the assimilation process. they were cut off from the borg queen when a virus was released into the collective through a cube by the uss voyager crew, in so doing the virus transferred the unimatrix personalities into these drones who fight the collective for survival and regain their lost honor.
Hugh's collective, a group of disconnected drones experimented on by Lore before the dominion war, they have their free will but appear to be more belligerent then that of other disconnected drones due to what lore did and Hugh's inability to properly command these drones at first.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Ok between you and cosmic1's logic I believe it could be possible. And I would support it "IF" Cryptic has a plausible back story as to how/why they form a society. Personally they need to ask you 2 to write it since you guys already have the details in mind and they make sense.
Idea: Why not balance team capacity based on the power of the Borg?
For example, in PvP, why not have 1 Borg cube queue against an entire team of 5 Starfleet ships? Or 2-3 spheres? Or 5 rectangles/probes?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.