Tired of Cloakers

emp1591 · April 2013

I am not one of these people who complain all that much. And I very rarely post on the forums about issues that I find in the game but, I have one thing that I am utterly tired of beyond all else.

Every time I get into a PvP now, I always run into these cats who are by far superior at cloaking.. The problem is, with all of the buffs it is way too easy for cloakers to one shot people and kill them. It happens constantly now because there is no way to really counter it unless you're a science officer and even then you're still going to die.

Sure you can not use but 3 buffs while cloaked but if you use the buffs that you can't, while cloaked, before you cloak then you have a fully buffed tactical officer who can shoot you once with an arc wave and kill you and if that doesn't do it the lunge afterwards will. If that still doesn't do it you have another arc coming behind that because of tact initiative and another lunge/pounce after that. You are facing kickback effects too so you don't really get a chance to do anything, including heal. This is a huge problem in ground PvP and should be addressed immediately.

Since I am not one to complain without giving possible solutions so here is what I have:

First you should create a cool down effect to the lunge/pounce after you decloak. This will decrease the problem of facing constant knockbacks

Secondly, There doesn't need to be a 15% buff upon decloaking. The problem is there is already too much power upon decloaking.

or

Lets take away battle strategies, which counters the ability to counter suppressing fire, and add something like motion accelerator. This would be a huge ability for the cloakers, seeing as they are so slow. I would suggest this above all else. And it would fix the problem of cloakers being able to debuff the suppressing fire effect.

or

Lets reduce the ability of ambush. With the 3rd thing I'm suggesting it would be very unlikely this will be taken into consideration but its a suggestion none the less.

Thirdly, lets fix the problem of being able to fully buff and then cloak. I am not sure how the exact mechanics of the kit are made or how you would do this but, we don't need to face a fully buffed tac hitting us with a flank and killing us. Its not really the KB problem we face so much as the one shot problem.. but KB does cause a problem if we make if past the first shot.

Doing all of the above still makes the kit very strong but at least it lets all of the other players be able to compete with this kit!

I would really appreciate it if you guys would make these changes or at least open some discussion in making these changes.

Thanks,
Emp1591

thay8472 · April 2013

or give us a super dooper anti cloaker devices (super target optics) (Invisible floating mines).

oricolawle · April 2013

Is Metroid's gun attached to his suit or is it part of his arm?

sokar357 · April 2013

yes i agreennoying when you walk in room that is empty then wack your dead kills me for ground pvp

raquel013 · April 2013

Well pvp is what it is and there are times i question a lot of others actions. This is one said action about what seems to be instant lunge and long last cloak. I would have to agree that the cd factor should be looked at in detail.

loasux · April 2013

This game is a lot of fun and although im not the strongest player by far, i have noticed the extreme unbalance that the CLOAKING allows the enemy. I believe that everyone has the right to play with what ever they want, but allowing a one hit kill due to cloaking is wrong.:eek::mad: so please at least level the f:Dield in some way so as to keep it fun

Unknown · April 2013

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marshalericdavid · April 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

Funny that y'all are ******** about that when MY experience is that you get seen 'cloaked' in ground a lot more often than not, and that there IS an obvious counter-don't get separated from your teammates.

And what if you are on Otha trying to complete a mission and you have no team?

Their should be no one shot kills even two shot kills I do not like. Three times a charm is a saying I like so the fewest hits to kill someone should be three.

[Deleted User] · April 2013

emp1591 wrote: »

I am not one of these people who complain all that much. And I very rarely post on the forums about issues that I find in the game but, I have one thing that I am utterly tired of beyond all else.

Every time I get into a PvP now, I always run into these cats who are by far superior at cloaking.. The problem is, with all of the buffs it is way too easy for cloakers to one shot people and kill them. It happens constantly now because there is no way to really counter it unless you're a science officer and even then you're still going to die.

Sure you can not use but 3 buffs while cloaked but if you use the buffs that you can't, while cloaked, before you cloak then you have a fully buffed tactical officer who can shoot you once with an arc wave and kill you and if that doesn't do it the lunge afterwards will. If that still doesn't do it you have another arc coming behind that because of tact initiative and another lunge/pounce after that. You are facing kickback effects too so you don't really get a chance to do anything, including heal. This is a huge problem in ground PvP and should be addressed immediately.

Since I am not one to complain without giving possible solutions so here is what I have:

First you should create a cool down effect to the lunge/pounce after you decloak. This will decrease the problem of facing constant knockbacks

Secondly, There doesn't need to be a 15% buff upon decloaking. The problem is there is already too much power upon decloaking.

or

Lets take away battle strategies, which counters the ability to counter suppressing fire, and add something like motion accelerator. This would be a huge ability for the cloakers, seeing as they are so slow. I would suggest this above all else. And it would fix the problem of cloakers being able to debuff the suppressing fire effect.

or

Lets reduce the ability of ambush. With the 3rd thing I'm suggesting it would be very unlikely this will be taken into consideration but its a suggestion none the less.

Thirdly, lets fix the problem of being able to fully buff and then cloak. I am not sure how the exact mechanics of the kit are made or how you would do this but, we don't need to face a fully buffed tac hitting us with a flank and killing us. Its not really the KB problem we face so much as the one shot problem.. but KB does cause a problem if we make if past the first shot.

Doing all of the above still makes the kit very strong but at least it lets all of the other players be able to compete with this kit!

I would really appreciate it if you guys would make these changes or at least open some discussion in making these changes.

Thanks,
Emp1591

if you dont like the way the game is set up here is my answer: DON'T PLAY!!!!!! allot of us like it the way it is, especially those of us [including myself] that play caitians and ferasans, we enjoy the traits that they give us, so what if they are really good at stealth? it doesn't matter im sick and tired of crybabies complaining every time they find a problem with th game, so again if you dont like how its set up DON'T PLAY!!!!

bitemepwe · April 2013

Decloaking only gives a single buff to damage. Every other buff is availible to anyone in a Tac vessel or playing a Tac toon but since this ground I have no idea.
Did they not fix the cloaked ground oneshot in the last patch?

trhrangerxml · April 2013

Cloaking gives you a distinct advantage over an enemy that does not know you are there, hence the +X% to damage when dropping out of cloak for 5 sec. I am mainly a Fed player and I understand the logic behind this. But, in any of the Star Trek series that have aired or been in theaters, the Federation has always come up with ways to combat the cloaking device. Improving stuff like sensor scan, passive stuff like plasma or even giving mines better stealth detection would really be nice. Biggest problem that helps out cloakers (wolf packs) is hunting the stragglers (or lone-wolfs), lack of team tactics does not go blameless here.

'cause the Federation signing a deal with an alien race known for espionage that they would not develop cloaking devices was the brightest idea in the world. I would of figured with, a. having the Defiant and Galaxy X for the past 30 years and b. the Romulan Star Empire being gone, that the Feds would of developed far better cloaking systems then the Klingon battle cloak.

marshalericdavid · April 2013

blazingangel426 wrote: »

if you dont like the way the game is set up here is my answer: DON'T PLAY!!!!!! allot of us like it the way it is, especially those of us [including myself] that play caitians and ferasans, we enjoy the traits that they give us, so what if they are really good at stealth? it doesn't matter im sick and tired of crybabies complaining every time they find a problem with th game, so again if you dont like how its set up DON'T PLAY!!!!

A typical jerk response.

The game has a lot of problems and telling people if you don't like something don't play is never a good thing to say. People have a right to voice their dislike about something.

simeion1 · April 2013

I understand your complaint, but let me put it to you like this. If a tactical officer can not kill someone in one or two shots what is the point. This is there only advantage. If you are an engineer you run the shut down kit like enemy neutralization. If you are a sci me run the medic kit or physicist kits. If you pay attention. You can tell when they are buffing up. If you have game sound up you can here them. I have been on both side of the coin. Being I cloaked on and I cloaking on someone. Instead of saying nerf the tactical how about buffing perception or guarantee a find with support and seeker drones for engineers and tricorder scan for science. Tacs need their buffs. If not with the right kits science and engineers would just tank out the tactical officer. This would be unfair also. The problem is not the operative kit it is the detection for it for other classes. There has to be game balance while I agree with you there is not right now. I think the way of fixing it is not debuffing or nerfing the tactical officer.

I would suggest when you retrait during the upcoming update you pick up perception and run a gamma quadrant tribble. They help boost perception.

Unknown · April 2013

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cheesebasket · April 2013

emp1591 wrote: »

I am not one of these people who complain all that much. And I very rarely post on the forums about issues that I find in the game but, I have one thing that I am utterly tired of beyond all else.

Every time I get into a PvP now, I always run into these cats who are by far superior at cloaking.. The problem is, with all of the buffs it is way too easy for cloakers to one shot people and kill them. It happens constantly now because there is no way to really counter it unless you're a science officer and even then you're still going to die.

Sure you can not use but 3 buffs while cloaked but if you use the buffs that you can't, while cloaked, before you cloak then you have a fully buffed tactical officer who can shoot you once with an arc wave and kill you and if that doesn't do it the lunge afterwards will. If that still doesn't do it you have another arc coming behind that because of tact initiative and another lunge/pounce after that. You are facing kickback effects too so you don't really get a chance to do anything, including heal. This is a huge problem in ground PvP and should be addressed immediately.

Since I am not one to complain without giving possible solutions so here is what I have:

First you should create a cool down effect to the lunge/pounce after you decloak. This will decrease the problem of facing constant knockbacks

Secondly, There doesn't need to be a 15% buff upon decloaking. The problem is there is already too much power upon decloaking.

or

Lets take away battle strategies, which counters the ability to counter suppressing fire, and add something like motion accelerator. This would be a huge ability for the cloakers, seeing as they are so slow. I would suggest this above all else. And it would fix the problem of cloakers being able to debuff the suppressing fire effect.

or

Lets reduce the ability of ambush. With the 3rd thing I'm suggesting it would be very unlikely this will be taken into consideration but its a suggestion none the less.

Thirdly, lets fix the problem of being able to fully buff and then cloak. I am not sure how the exact mechanics of the kit are made or how you would do this but, we don't need to face a fully buffed tac hitting us with a flank and killing us. Its not really the KB problem we face so much as the one shot problem.. but KB does cause a problem if we make if past the first shot.

Doing all of the above still makes the kit very strong but at least it lets all of the other players be able to compete with this kit!

I would really appreciate it if you guys would make these changes or at least open some discussion in making these changes.

Thanks,
Emp1591

They're not going to nerf stealth because additional stealth is mentioned in the C-store advert/ Race info for cats. Cats can also jump 75% higher, and pounce is an Active trait for them, So in theory a cat can use a set trait like lunge and then their active trait pounce consecutively, They dont and probly never will share a cooldown.

The idea of a tac decloaking you with buffs galore is pretty much what the tac class is all about, tacs don't have much heallth and therefore must hit as hard as they can, You're not gonna see a tac win a fight with a medic one-on-one in straight up combat, Because the medic can heal as well as debuff, For that matter, if a tac decided to waltze up to an experienced engineer and start shooting they'd lose outright most of the time too. Pretty much the only thing that works for tacs in pvp is operative and close combat, fire team and squad leader work wonders if they're in a team, but standalone fireteam isn't that useful since you can dodge the plasma grenade, and squad commander is as the name implies-strictly for squad based combat.

If/since you seem to be haveing trouble with stunlocking, i'd advise trying to roll repeatedly as well as getting a respec and putting points into Willpower. i've rolled out of someone who tried stunlocking me with a tholian sword before and it frustrated the stew outta the guy.

I run at least one of each career for both factions, and already have slots reserved for all three career typs of the upcomeing romulan faction

SIG

"Live long and prosper, or however the vulcans say it"
Lifetime member, Part of the Ferasan Shadow Force, and a crazy good kitty Engineer

radkip · April 2013

patrickngo wrote: »

Funny that y'all are ******** about that when MY experience is that you get seen 'cloaked' in ground a lot more often than not, and that there IS an obvious counter-don't get separated from your teammates.

You need the covert trait, which pretty every Ground Tac has these days. You are completely invisible even from 0 meters to a Tac with Target Optics up. The only way to get flushed out is to make your presence obvious (buff up, make noise, etc) and have a Science officer tricorder scan and catch you in the AoE.

Without Covert, the operative kit is laughable. But with it, it's ridiculously broken. Especially now that you can just use battle strategies to remove the only reliable form of damage control that was stopping Operatives from ruling the roost, Suppressing Fire.

I understand your complaint, but let me put it to you like this. If a tactical officer can not kill someone in one or two shots what is the point.

But... you can. Offensive power creep has gotten so bad since the end of season 5 that most cloakers don't even use target optics and fire on my mark. They just cloak up, use their two abilities that can be used under cloak, get into position, energy cell, decloak and faceroll the keyboard.

emp1591 · April 2013

blazingangel426 wrote: »

if you dont like the way the game is set up here is my answer: DON'T PLAY!!!!!! allot of us like it the way it is, especially those of us [including myself] that play caitians and ferasans, we enjoy the traits that they give us, so what if they are really good at stealth? it doesn't matter im sick and tired of crybabies complaining every time they find a problem with th game, so again if you dont like how its set up DON'T PLAY!!!!

I have no problem with the cloaking ability and obviously you didn't read the topic post. The problem is being able to cloak and then one shot people.

The cloaking ability in itself is fine as it provides an amazing offensive and defensive power but again being able to one shot people and do the KB over and over from arc + lunge + arc + pounce + arc, (which you wont last that long) because of tact initiative.

And might I point out that PROBLEMS are supposed to be addressed.. If we didn't make suggestions or point out these problems there would be a lot of things that still didn't work or work improperly.

Thanks for your input though.

crusty8mac · April 2013

Tactical Team and listening to the sound cues are both your friends. Cloaked vessels are easily defended against if you just pay attention, and understand how to balance your shields.

mimey2 · April 2013

There seems to be some confusion on this thread.

The OP is talking about cloaking on the ground.

Some folks seem to be misunderstanding and thinking he is talking about space.

overkilltbp · April 2013

I can only say how this has effected me on ground fighting another that cloaked and hid for 20mins while I technically did the same with the kit, running around guessing where he would be and tbo I was the only one that ran around not cloaked just so he would break his, to attack me so we could actually finish the run.

Ships are almost the same way, cept klinks seem to suck so bad they have to use it constantly to run away. Karret hello my friends not even fin with you guys yet.

But I think a lot of the ground missions problems are probably just how the maps are in itself, give me a sniper map!@!

With regarding the cloak itself, in pvp, op, in pve, not good enough.

kain9prime · April 2013

crusty8mac wrote: »

Tactical Team and listening to the sound cues are both your friends. Cloaked vessels are easily defended against if you just pay attention, and understand how to balance your shields.

THIS

Good Fed teams can and do win at PvP. Seriously OP, this is my 1st MMO, and I basically taught myself to be a decent space PvPer on both KDF and Fed side. I'm no super-champ by any means, but I get a decent share of kills. Stop QQ'ing and adapt. YOU make the change and improve like others have instead of asking the game to conform to your desires.

marshalericdavid wrote: »

And what if you are on Otha trying to complete a mission and you have no team?

Their should be no one shot kills even two shot kills I do not like. Three times a charm is a saying I like so the fewest hits to kill someone should be three.

See above. Think you're the only one that's happened to? I solo both Ker'rat and Otha 98% of the time. Adapt and be quicker than your enemy, or find ways to sabotage them.

radkip · April 2013

Guys, he's talking about ground. Read what he's saying instead of rushing to respond.

Cloak is fine in space, it's not on the ground.

emp1591 · April 2013

radkip wrote: »

Guys, he's talking about ground. Read what he's saying instead of rushing to respond.

Cloak is fine in space, it's not on the ground.

Lol, I was just about to say the same. I really have never seen a ship with a 'kit' or a weapon that can 'one shot' in space. :P Not to mention the lunge/pounce. ^_^

suuperduude · April 2013

The Covert trait is broken in this game. It's been broken for some time. You can't always hear the tac decloaking. Sometimes it's your team mate powering up next to you. Is that a cloaker? maybe? i'll hit a hypo or a buff....TRIBBLE....it's on cool down now.....and now the cloaker gets me.

Science has Tricorder scan, a sci cat mixed w/ a tri scan still can't see a cloaker. That's broken. Someone that can stand right next to you, de cloak, and pulse you for a kill is not a good mechanic. And now, Covert is getting a flank bonus? Yeah, that's what they need.

Cryptic has been made aware over and over. And they don't care. But the covert trait is broken.

radkip · April 2013

emp1591 wrote: »

Lol, I was just about to say the same. I really have never seen a ship with a 'kit' or a weapon that can 'one shot' in space. :P Not to mention the lunge/pounce. ^_^

Go visit Ker'rat when Emoejoe is online

emp1591 · April 2013

suuperduude wrote: »

The Covert trait is broken in this game. It's been broken for some time. You can't always hear the tac decloaking. Sometimes it's your team mate powering up next to you. Is that a cloaker? maybe? i'll hit a hypo or a buff....TRIBBLE....it's on cool down now.....and now the cloaker gets me.

Science has Tricorder scan, a sci cat mixed w/ a tri scan still can't see a cloaker. That's broken. Someone that can stand right next to you, de cloak, and pulse you for a kill is not a good mechanic. And now, Covert is getting a flank bonus? Yeah, that's what they need.

Cryptic has been made aware over and over. And they don't care. But the covert trait is broken.

I wont say the trait in itself is broken. I mean, I have no problem at all with cloakers.. Its the kit that needs to be fixed. The kit in itself is over powered. I mean if I took my fire team kit and fully buffed up I can do the same damage as the op kit but i'd have to get as close to you as I could with the op kit...

The only thing is, is that the op kit has no debuff, that isn't a joke, like almost all other kits face... and you can get right beside someone and one shot them without them knowing where as with all other kits you can see the person coming and prepare yourself so you aren't killed with one shot or so you don't face the KB of the arc + lunge/pounce combo which renders you incapable of even fighting back.

Since we can't lower the ability of the cloak in itself, seeing as it would render it useless to all non-covert users and destroy the point of having covert(which is supposed to make you INVISIBLE), we need to lower the power of the kit and cut the KB power that the kit has through lunge/pounce + arc. The power is just way too strong.

simeion1 · April 2013

Cloak is fine on the ground, the detection is what is broke. People we need to fix the game where it is balanced. The way you do that is by giving each class a chance to detect cloakers. Tacs would have a chance with target optics, sci with tricorder scan and eng will get the drone. They should all get the same detection bonus as a base and the same cool down. This forces cloakers to be more carefull. Also travel in numbers. Don't be stagnat I choose my target by some one who is standing and not moving. I try not to get someone with a crouch dodge bonus. The point is make yourself the unlikely target of choice, until detection is fixed.

Cloak was fixed to a point. Now cloaks don't stack. You can't run a virus cloaked. Lunge and pounce share a cool down. If most cloakers don't get you in that amount of time they are usually on the run.

You don't like it now go look at the skills on tribble. Tacs are getting bonuses to ambush, flank, and the romulan doffs are giving defense bonuses to ambush. This leaves me to believe that cloaking is working as attended. Now don't get to upset medical vanguard is going to make science more tanky. So if you are going to ask for a repair of a skill or trait ask them the fix detection. My science Catian has no problem finding cloakers, but my Borg eng does. You also don't hear them uncloaking, you here them buffing.

crusty8mac · April 2013

mimey2 wrote: »

There seems to be some confusion on this thread.

The OP is talking about cloaking on the ground.

Some folks seem to be misunderstanding and thinking he is talking about space.

Ground PvP - LOL.

mrkollins · April 2013

simeion1 wrote: »

Cloak is fine on the ground, the detection is what is broke. People we need to fix the game where it is balanced. The way you do that is by giving each class a chance to detect cloakers. Tacs would have a chance with target optics, sci with tricorder scan and eng will get the drone. They should all get the same detection bonus as a base and the same cool down. This forces cloakers to be more carefull. Also travel in numbers. Don't be stagnat I choose my target by some one who is standing and not moving. I try not to get someone with a crouch dodge bonus. The point is make yourself the unlikely target of choice, until detection is fixed.

Cloak was fixed to a point. Now cloaks don't stack. You can't run a virus cloaked. Lunge and pounce share a cool down. If most cloakers don't get you in that amount of time they are usually on the run.

You don't like it now go look at the skills on tribble. Tacs are getting bonuses to ambush, flank, and the romulan doffs are giving defense bonuses to ambush. This leaves me to believe that cloaking is working as attended. Now don't get to upset medical vanguard is going to make science more tanky. So if you are going to ask for a repair of a skill or trait ask them the fix detection. My science Catian has no problem finding cloakers, but my Borg eng does. You also don't hear them uncloaking, you here them buffing.

Pretty much this.

The real problem here is Perception, you can't see a Cloaker at 0 mts with the Covert Trait, doesn't matter how many Perception buffs you have.

The changes in Tribble indicate that Cloak and Covert are working as intended, because they are buffing the trait. But are we going to get a buff to Perception somehow? Or this is an evil plan to make us all buy Caitians and be Cloakers?

simeion1 · April 2013

crusty8mac wrote: »

Ground PvP - LOL.

Come on over and try it. You laugh at us. Have you tried it? Most of us welcome new players.

radkip · April 2013

mrkollins wrote: »

Or this is an evil plan to make us all buy Caitians and be Cloakers?

Yes. There have been a continuous stream of buffs towards cloak mechanics and nerfs to counters. The fact that they haven't even answered to the +10% dodge on Caitians furthers this conclusion.

*grabs her tinfoil hat, but doesn't put it on*

Tired of Cloakers

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