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Romulan Faction Independence
balordezul
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Let me start this off correctly by saying I LOVE STO 
even with it's problems and some silly bugs that are now years old. I'm also a life-timer from beta who has shown his support via testing, C-store, buying zen and spending way to much money on the duty officer pack without ever getting that silly bug ship:(. I also tested the free to play and that carrier AI/BoP AI rebuild.
I'm not happy with what is going on with Romulans and I will explain why and give a solution that will make Romulans their own true faction.
The Problem!
I just listened to the latest interview with Dstahl and he talks about the ally system and explains how Romulans are their own faction.
Please listen to the podcast it is a little over a hour long with good insight to things coming out so you can hear it for yourself.
Fist I'm going to say it Dstalh you said you are listening to the forums so here is someone that is not happy with what he hears.
Why Romulans are not there own faction.
-Romulans can only join Fed or FDK fleets making them part of the other faction for all end game pursue with gear and ships.
-Romulans may not make Romulan only fleet without just being exclusive like an elves only guild.
- From the "Ask Cryptic" on the 28th "we will consider unique Romulan Starbases" -Dstahl, Well it seem to not on the plate and all it would be is a cosmetic change to a KDF and Fed starbase if ever done.
-Romulans will not be able to switch sides as the issue with gear and faction ships would be an issue leading to other reasons why Romulans would never be able to be independent.
Right now Romulans look a lot like W-craft pandas having their own story but in the end will be part of either Fed or KDF.
The Solution!
In the interview Dstahl talked about something that I was hoping was going to happen. An alliance system of some kind between fleets. This is to help smaller fleets in embassy and starbase progression.
Now that is the key to my solution and Devs or Dstahl please pass this along so it is not lost in forum obscurity.
Romulans can only join Romulan only fleets and do not join Fed or KDF fleets. Instead via the fleet alliance system every Romulan fleet can ally with one fed and one KDF fleet.
WAIT for it so the nerd rage slows down a little.
We know that every Romulan citizen has to choice what faction to ally with and they may not join another faction after they choose. So this will give every Romulan fleet to still have their members working with their chosen faction but still remaining independent.
We don't need Romulan starbases right away but we do need them in the future maybe season 9 or 10. Open up a Romulan social hub that we can buy unique Ramulan style end game gear like FED and KDF fleets have.
This would still not take away anything that is currently promised to players that wait to have their Romulan play a Fed fleet T5 ship and dance around on ESD. It will just let Romulans be a little more independent and remain a true faction but not buck the Dev teams goals for a two system pvp game.
When Romulans join "faction" ques have it still follow the ally systems to prevent issues on that front.
This is a solid solution to keep Romulans free and independent.
If you want free Romulans you need to be voicing it before the new expansion hits.
I still love the game hand have show my support of it in money, time and testing.:)
even with it's problems and some silly bugs that are now years old. I'm also a life-timer from beta who has shown his support via testing, C-store, buying zen and spending way to much money on the duty officer pack without ever getting that silly bug ship:(. I also tested the free to play and that carrier AI/BoP AI rebuild.I'm not happy with what is going on with Romulans and I will explain why and give a solution that will make Romulans their own true faction.
The Problem!
I just listened to the latest interview with Dstahl and he talks about the ally system and explains how Romulans are their own faction.
Please listen to the podcast it is a little over a hour long with good insight to things coming out so you can hear it for yourself.
Fist I'm going to say it Dstalh you said you are listening to the forums so here is someone that is not happy with what he hears.
Why Romulans are not there own faction.
-Romulans can only join Fed or FDK fleets making them part of the other faction for all end game pursue with gear and ships.
-Romulans may not make Romulan only fleet without just being exclusive like an elves only guild.
- From the "Ask Cryptic" on the 28th "we will consider unique Romulan Starbases" -Dstahl, Well it seem to not on the plate and all it would be is a cosmetic change to a KDF and Fed starbase if ever done.
-Romulans will not be able to switch sides as the issue with gear and faction ships would be an issue leading to other reasons why Romulans would never be able to be independent.
Right now Romulans look a lot like W-craft pandas having their own story but in the end will be part of either Fed or KDF.
The Solution!
In the interview Dstahl talked about something that I was hoping was going to happen. An alliance system of some kind between fleets. This is to help smaller fleets in embassy and starbase progression.
Now that is the key to my solution and Devs or Dstahl please pass this along so it is not lost in forum obscurity.
Romulans can only join Romulan only fleets and do not join Fed or KDF fleets. Instead via the fleet alliance system every Romulan fleet can ally with one fed and one KDF fleet.
WAIT for it so the nerd rage slows down a little.
We know that every Romulan citizen has to choice what faction to ally with and they may not join another faction after they choose. So this will give every Romulan fleet to still have their members working with their chosen faction but still remaining independent.
We don't need Romulan starbases right away but we do need them in the future maybe season 9 or 10. Open up a Romulan social hub that we can buy unique Ramulan style end game gear like FED and KDF fleets have.
This would still not take away anything that is currently promised to players that wait to have their Romulan play a Fed fleet T5 ship and dance around on ESD. It will just let Romulans be a little more independent and remain a true faction but not buck the Dev teams goals for a two system pvp game.
When Romulans join "faction" ques have it still follow the ally systems to prevent issues on that front.
This is a solid solution to keep Romulans free and independent.
If you want free Romulans you need to be voicing it before the new expansion hits.
I still love the game hand have show my support of it in money, time and testing.:)
Post edited by balordezul on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Devs listen to whats going on because we are prob not the only two that are not happy with Romulans not really being their own faction.
PvE
Players can do PvE missions to "boost" defenses for their faction running supply missions, rescue, and counter "spying" missions (i.e. ground base where to capture NPC spies)
PvP
This can be the space and land battle to control key planets and space in the neutral zone. This could be daily/weekly control (boosted by PvE missions)
Note: the boost should be a percentage. So KDF doing PvE mission it goes to a percentage compare to the total population instead of a flat bonus (if it didn't then Fed will have a distinct advantage)
Of course the system could compensate by giving the "lesser faction" NPC boost but that never turn out well since AI is not "that good" (Secret war did this)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I truly believe that everything in the expansion will be 95% good and 5% of complex bugs that need to be worked out.
All the new missions will be 4.7 stars.
Super cool new ships for Romulans and maybe some for the other factions too.
New rep system looks great along with what I have seen of the warp cores on the test server.
The UI is a good improvement but could still use some tweaks.
I predict the reviews of the expansion to be mixed though.
The removal of the level gates to other factions to be a huge success and that addition of new missions to draw old players back in. All of the new content will be very appealing to returning players. We should see a small boost of new players also but relativity small.
The issues that KDF had at the launch of the game was unavoidable and forgivable do to the contracts and time constraints. But had a major adverse affect on players that were not tied to the Fed side of Trek. I personally new three people would not play the game because KDF was close to monster play and another said give me Romulans.
I can see Romulans being related to pandas or launch KDF and that is completely avoidable. Cryptic you have the time to do it right this time and not repeat the mistakes of the past.
If you need a little extra time to make Romulans a real faction then do so. We want our game to be one of the best games out there and if that means you need to delay a month to work it out then please do so.
Don't release something half way done and new potential players are hesitant already.
I really would hate to hear, "That expansion could have been amazing, to bad."
I have faith of the heart that cryptic can do what needs to be done to rectify these issues.
I still think you can do two way PVP with three factions and a fleet alliance system. Everyone's personal choice will affect them for pvp and when the visit an ally's social hub and starbase.
On the other hand it would still keep them a truly independent faction and room to grow down the road.
Three way pvp works but the model for multi faction pvp is no longer popular in the MMO market.
Elder Scrolls Online will be bringing three faction pvp back in a big way. People like the 3 way world pvp in Guild Wars 2. Whats old is new again.
Either way pvp has a very long way to go in this game. My focus is on getting this game more attractive to new players and making Romulan a real faction.
Like most of us we all want STO to be a better game for everyone.
Cryptic give us an allied system like the first post here describes. I'm honestly scared of the Romulan empire ending up like KDF did at launch I know i was hurt with not having full KDF content. I love the changes you made to the KDF - the start at level 21, but that did not hurt so much I love the KDF content you added, So let us see the Romulans be their own faction because honestly I don't want to be a Romulan running and dancing on ESD or flying a defiant...
So what you're saying is...
...Romulan Fleets would buy their way into a Fed and KDF Fleet to have access to all gear available in the game.
The Romulan Fleet itself would offer nothing to these Fed/KDF Fleets - so the concept of buying their way in - either with monthly fees or a lump sum sort of thing - etc, etc, etc - would take place.
Basically, rather than potentially having the "Best of Two Worlds" - you're looking for them to have the "Best of Three Worlds"...eh?
Interesting concept... I admit I lol'd.
I think what he was trying to say is that the romulan fleet would be allied with one KDF and one Fed fleet without access to their gear (or maybe has access to the gear based on the characters personal choice so if you Romulan choose KDF he has access to KDF gear and vice versa) but the fleet would be able to help the allied fleet out with their fleet missions both the mark missions and the advancement missions
What I mean is, in the future, flesh-out the Romulans with starbases and such, and when that's done give all Romulans a choice to break-away from their current alliance. In doing so, they would sever all ties and lose all material support (ie ability to visit faction-specific stations/planets and lose access to any faction-specific ships). Then they could form up into their own Green fleet.
Just my opinion...
ETA:
So it's quite possible to make a Rom Fleet, build your own Starbase and Embassy, and only choose Rom ships/gear from the Fleet Store.
I listened to the interview as well and I do like how they've done it and I am excited about playing it. Makes sense not to have them totally and completely independent. I like how they have to choose a side.
At best, it makes sense because their entire home world was destroyed, so they'd need the help of others.
At worst, it makes sense because from a coding standpoint, they don't have to go back and re-code everything (faction specific stuff), since this 'ally' with a faction will take care of it.
Just my .02
I totally understand from the coding side (it is easier this way) but I think in the long run, it would have been good (and lore wise) that Romulan will be independent. They can form alliance with other Fleet (KDF or Fed) but ultimately they are their own faction. That would have been good, but the expansion would have been much bigger.
If that was the case, then the dev could have easily use this expansion and totally revamp PvP from the ground up. While it is a huge undertaking, fixing it now, would be better for the game in years to come.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
No what I?m looking at is still best of both world and that is what cryptic is currently offering. I?m seeking a way to work within the system they have setup to still offer us more independence.
For example :
Romulan A is allied to Fed and all currently offered perks
Romulan B is allied to KDF and all currently offered perks
(note the above is the current system that will be coming out)
Romulan fleet holds both players types A and B but not Fed or KDF.
Romulan A and B my group and play together in Romulan content and endgame excluding Fed and KDF players.
Romulan A can group with Fed for end game and shared mission but not with KDF or Romulan B unless random ques or private events that allow.
Romulan B can group with KDF for end game and shared mission but not with Fed or Romulan A unless random ques or private events that allow.
The goal is to find a way to make Romulans a true faction while still working with what Cryptic has already done. It would be unreasonable and highly unlikely that they would get the green light to stop the ally system and build them from the group up as a fully independent faction. This is because of time, money, player metrics and Perfect World green lighting it.
We know what the issue is but now we as the players need to be creative to try and give Cryptic solutions that would help beside ?I hate this or this is stupid? responses.
We all want new players to join and to keep them playing the game. The means more money for the company and equates more goodies and content for us the player base.
The issue I have is this is still not a 100% clear because instead of answering the question directly Dstahl gave us an interesting redirect and never stated that it will be a fully allied Romulan fleet by code or exclusivity.
What I have seen makes me be believe that Romulan fleets are really Fed or KDF fleets. Also I might be wrong and would love for Dstahl or a Dev to clear this up on what the code will allow regarding Romulan fleets.
Romulan fleets will not have Romulan starbases. ? ask cryptic
?A Romulan can absolutely go and create a fleet by themselves and they can decide who they want to be in that fleet.? -Exert from Dstahl Priority One Ep 122 about 10 to 12min marker
Yes I might be taken out of context and I?m aware of that.
When you reach the point for fleet holding you will use your allied starbase as a fleet holding. - Priority One Ep 122
So lets work through what I know and hope that we can get someone that has facts or even better someone of power to state what is going on.
If Romulans can make a fleet, choose whom they can invite and construct the allied fleet starbase. I going to make the jump and say that Romulan fleets are not exclusive to Romulans of that allied choice but KDF and Fed fleets.
Would a Romulan allied KDF fleet work, if it was coded to only let Romulans of that allied choice in? My guess it would be a very small fleet being a nitch of a nitch. We already know we have to many small fleets and people will want to make new Romulan named fleets. We also know that the Cryptic Dev team are not fools and would have seen the issue of the allied system as you will need to join them to the allied fleets to prevent isolating players.
This was my thought process and another reason to want more Romulan independence.
I still love the game but worry about the lore and what is happening. We are setting up a bad president for the other future factions with the current style of implementation.
The downside is that they don't have any dedicated art or mechanics for Rom Starbases. This means you need to make a Fed or KDF Starbase - and it means it will have Fed or KDF NPCs inside of it. Does that suck? Yes. But it would take the environmental art team months to make it all look Romulan.
At no point in time are you required to invite anyone into a Starbase that you do not want to have there. So you can invite only Roms if you want. You just need to pretend that everything you see looks Romulan rather than Fed or KDF.
And then you have the added bonus of adding Roms to existing Fleets if you want them. That's not a big deal - especially when you consider that Dstahl stated they are also looking into Fleet alliances: having Fleets ally with each other and use the Fleet Store. Mechanically, there's not much difference in having a Rom in your Fleet and using your Store or having a Rom Fleet allied with your Fleet and using your Store.
No matter which way you go the game requires a certain amount of suspension of belief.
Cryptic, by selling STO short now you are limiting yourself in the future. Yes it will be cool anyway but it could be better. It could be epic!
And as far as not having enough content, we will work with ya. Most of us ground the exploration missions back in the day. Im sure you already have a nice little collection of faction specific missions. Im not gonna whine if I come up alittle short as long as I can replay the missions. You can add multiple gear options too like you did with some of the features so that we have to play it 2 or three times to get a set. Or a higher tier .
It's the same type of alliance the Federation and Klingon Empire had for most of the TNG era: you're not super-friendly but you help when you're needed, and you don't attack each other.
Thanks for the clarification on that - world of difference (in a sense) between that and what I thought was initially being suggested...
...however, that's lumping all of the Romulans in together as if they were a single faction. I guess it depends on which level one looks at it, eh?
Consider the following:
Americans
Republicans and Democrats
Romulans
K-Rom and F-Rom
While it doesn't quite do it justice, it does kind of provide the gist of it. Sure, they're all Romulans - but not all Romulans want the same thing thing. Heck, that's pretty much the premise of the prequel story - the Romulan Republic folks trying to rebuild after Hobus and trying to break free from the Tal Shiar.
Even those that are a part of D'Tan and Company - see their futures as better off either with the Federation or the KDF as allies - they do not agree. They're the same species - but they're most definitely not the same faction.
Cryptic is giving us two subfactions of the faction they're not giving us.
I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on this my friend. From all your posts on this topic you seem to hold a very different view on this topic and it is nice to see the other point of view.
I'm also up for testing the fleet system out with you as soon as the Romulans are patched into tribble to work out what the code truly does.
Now what would you suggest to cryptic to help them develop the Romulan faction in a way to make it more independent? What ideas do you have to help bring in more players, retain them and give this game a better public image via the community and media outlets.
I know we both love the game from different angles so how would you help it?
LoR isn't going to bring in a bunch of new players. LoR is basically going to take a bunch of existing Fed and KDF players and transition them into the Rom Faction so that they can experience more Mission Content. That's why the alliance system makes sense: because the vast majority of people who will be playing Roms are already in one or more Fleets. And once most of these Rom players have burned through the new Mission Content they'll transition back into their favorite Fed or KDF characters and start demanding more Mission Content.
LoR is not only just adding Romulan faction and mission; it is also adding KDF 1-20 content so a lot of players that did not want to play because KDF was lacking 1-20 will play; it is also letting new players start as any faction they want so player that don't like the Federation and were not playing because they did not want to get a Fed to 24 to unlock KDf will be playing Romulan or KDF and than there is the OOOOOOOO shiny that many people will see and want to try out. I understand you point of view but I disagree with it. I think LoR will bring new players and depending on the reviews it gets maybe some of those players will stay and maybe they will not. I can only speculate in saying that if Romulans are going to be space Pandas I don't think many new players will stay and many vets will go back to their fed and kdf toons but it is a wait a see thing right now unless someone from the dev team wants to tell us what is happening.
Besides, I'll give you 1 reason why your idea won't work... wait for it... doffs. I had to purchase a whole new set of very expensive doffs again; no way in hell I'm gonna give those up for your idea.
[VOICE="Elmer Fudd"]Thewe's somefing scwewy going on awound hewe...[/VOICE]
seems to me that they're moving away from hard core factions as it stands. Klingons have MUCH more access to the federation space then they did at launch (at launch for example they could not visit DS9)
if the war ends in season 9, I'd not be too suprised to see season 10 end the remaining elements of the faction system, and allow KDFs to join Fed fleets and vice versa. with fleets simply being able to choose a cosmetic element of their base upon creation.