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Expansion for Exploration Revamp should have come before new faction...
geoff484
Member Posts: 209 Arc User
...because it is probably the single most important thing that you'd expect from a Star Trek MMO. When I first bought this game that's what I thought I was going to get and I was ultra excited and rushed home to experience it, but it wasn't there.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited about the upcoming update but I was just thinking as I was doing my exploration dailies "Shouldn't this come before Romulans and even KDF content?"
I'm sure when the Devs or whoever first started having discussions about an expansion that this HAD to come up as an idea and I seriously want to know why this hasn't been improved on what so ever. Because it would be so big? Would it really be much bigger than what we're getting in May? It could also be improved in time.
I could be dead wrong but I think marketing a new Exploration expansion would slap the nay sayers across the face as well as other Trek fans (and maybe just gamers in general) and get them hooked, I'd even go so far to say that I think the revenue a new exploration system would bring would make the Rommie expansion look like pocket change - If done correctly that is.
I especially think it would have been more suitable to go along with the new UI and the whole theme of the expansion would have been "Now THIS is a Trek game!"
Am I exaggerating about what a new, WELL DONE exploration system could do? I seriously believe it is the single, most important thing that this game needs and I'm big on KDF and I'd even put off my beef with how the KDF were treated if this was implemented.
I'd like to not only hear opinions about this, but how do you guys think an awesome exploration system/mechanic could be done?
Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited about the upcoming update but I was just thinking as I was doing my exploration dailies "Shouldn't this come before Romulans and even KDF content?"
I'm sure when the Devs or whoever first started having discussions about an expansion that this HAD to come up as an idea and I seriously want to know why this hasn't been improved on what so ever. Because it would be so big? Would it really be much bigger than what we're getting in May? It could also be improved in time.
I could be dead wrong but I think marketing a new Exploration expansion would slap the nay sayers across the face as well as other Trek fans (and maybe just gamers in general) and get them hooked, I'd even go so far to say that I think the revenue a new exploration system would bring would make the Rommie expansion look like pocket change - If done correctly that is.
I especially think it would have been more suitable to go along with the new UI and the whole theme of the expansion would have been "Now THIS is a Trek game!"
Am I exaggerating about what a new, WELL DONE exploration system could do? I seriously believe it is the single, most important thing that this game needs and I'm big on KDF and I'd even put off my beef with how the KDF were treated if this was implemented.
I'd like to not only hear opinions about this, but how do you guys think an awesome exploration system/mechanic could be done?
Post edited by geoff484 on
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But as in something that makes a random planet/system with semi-random objectives and possible enemies?
The exploration probably requires to take a lot of programming into consideration. So I assume if cryptic would release something exploration related right now it would need a lot of additional work & rewriting of already written stuff after LOR release.
i for once am VERY HAPPY to finally create my planned Romulan/Reman/Suliban toons allied with the KDF, and one for FED just for the story.
exploration revamp will be a filthy mess to deal with for the devs, same as crafting.
this is called the Genesis system which is already online.
you have to kill 5 groups of enemies or tag some debris in space/ground. the ground ones are not fun, as the enemies often fall through the maps thus lost time and mission unfinishable.
I'm just not compelled to partake in the existing exploration system. Not just because I've had my fill of the variations on offer, but because it ultimately leads to no progression. We now have a reputation infrastructure in place, which is right now expanding on Tribble to cover Events (CE). I could see this working for exploration too.
My point here is that there would be little point in them spending time on exploration if there are not enough support systems already in place to add longevity to it. Perhaps that is what they are doing. Biding a little more time until more infrastructure is in place.
I'm thinking we'll see some steps towards the EP's idea of a sector made up of themed foundry mission content, but likely not before the Foundry team is released from Neverwinter pre-launch development.
I recently tried to gather some thoughts on the subject (here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=564581), but it didn't gain a whole lot of traction; possibly because I made the mistake of sticking it in 'Feedback' instead of 'Discussion'. :P
Well... that or hardly anyone cares any more.
They already do, the problem is that due to limitations they have to go in and correct the various errors the map would give if they imported the genesis creator maps straight into the game.
I've seen all the threads about exploration, and so far I haven't seen a single one with a system that made sense from a game design standpoint. People overestimate either the magical abilities of random generators or of how replayable their idea really is.
I think the devs are quietly talking even now about it, hell maybe with the introduction of the new warp core systems they are actually doing something about exploration.
they may just be getting the mesurements with the warp core system, but once they finish, they'd be setting the foundatioin and the rest falls into place.
imagine a vast sector map, but when you are in that sector map you have a timer counting down to power loss, refuel through negotiations or force. also imagine you wanna go as warp conservatvely as possible to slow the timer down.
just one little idea for the warp cores. so maybe they are working on it, and the warp cores are just the beginning.
Except it's not actually true. When you do enough exploration missions it doesn't take long to notice maps you've done before with enemies in same spot as before.
Funny considering all those games that are based on randomly generated dungeons, maps, etc. It certainly can't be any more boring than doing the same fleet alert or starbase incursion for the 100th time.
And that's different from what you're asking for...how?
Random setting? Check.
Random objective? Check
Random enemy choice? Check.
Those are annoying...
I just chalk those missions up to the unexplainable vagaries, of the Trek Universe...
Just like in the Real Universe...,
There are always days where the best laid plans don't go anything like one expects them too.
Knowing that it's a BUG in the game, doesn't mean I can't imagine while playing that some Weird Trek Universe 'Thingy', just wiped out that Klingon patrol and probably saved my TRIBBLE, as well as my Away Teams'...
And if it's my Klingon toon, I curse the petaQ to feklar, that denied me my chance of a glorious hand-to-hand battle with my enemies....
Time to get the hell off that planet, file a report, and move on to the next mission.
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It's still the same 'kill 5 enemy groups in same locations' or 'scan the same 5 plants in same locations' or 'explore the base with 5 corridors and 6 rooms'. The only random thing is the race of the enemies and even that is based on the exploration zone you are in.
What would you do exactly? I often hear people saying they want to "Boldly go where no one has gone before." But in the shows, how often did they actually do that? Seems to me 90% of the time, they were boldly going places that someone was already hanging out in.
The Genesis system was necessary for launch due to our very short development window. However, I think we can all agree that the system did not generate the most . . . exciting or engaging content in STO. I really don't think random generation is the way to do exploration.
I dont realy agree with you there taco. This is just one opinion but i love the random generation part of our current exploration. I just wished that the maps dident have roads on them to every goal so you actually have to look for the objective with your tricorder. I also wished the ships and bases had a more logical interior with instead of X amount of random rooms, a reasonable interior with like an warp core/bridge and stuff. And perhaps optional side objectives wich would also be randomly generated, and that you have to find by looking around. But i guess putting in additional filters in the random generator would be much more complicated then i can imagine. I have no experience with .... Anything ... involving game development. But oh well, Im sure ill get over it when i see the actual revamp.
An expansion of the Exploration System in terms of what you can do may be in order as well. The "Scan 5 anomalies" or "Defeat 5 enemy groups" type missions is rather tedious. Where's the possibility of solving puzzles, helping a colony with various tasks (not involving scanning/killing stuff) ?
What you guys did with the clusters surrounding Tau Dewa (putting them as single locales inside existing Sector Blocks) is a step in the right direction. Also frees up map space so you can transition from one Sector Block to another, more easily. I'd suggest however you guys look into bug fixing some of those cluster entrances, as they are difficult to enter unless you are in exactly the right position (Hromi Cluster says hello).
I suppose one idea eventually (and I hate myself for suggesting it), is that you add an "Exploration Reputation" grind with Exploration Marks for completion of various cluster missions. Such a Rep Grind could potentially allow you to transwarp instantly to a specific cluster, increase your scan results, that sort of thing.
How else would you make enough of it without spending years hand crafting new scenarios? That is, if we assume that the point of exploration is that you can keep doing it over and over without getting the same results over and over (which did always seem like the point to me).
Surely there's still room for improvements to the Genesis system?
It's called "doing Foundry missions."
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And maybe if you get a mission where there are WAY too many ships, Friendlies can randomly jump into help. Or even make it an option to send a distress signal...besides the Fleet reinforcement stuff.
And stop with the same pattern of ships, too. More variety, that's all.
And for Ground, maybe add some "surprises"...like when you scan an alien artifact, a timer starts counting down. Then you'd have to play the scanner mini-game before it runs out or it blows up. Or add some Wild-life that would randomly jump you.
Maybe have a timer for getting ALL the scans done...maybe the planet isn't stable so you could have the screen shake, and volcanoes going off (a la the Genesis Planet).
At this point, I'd be happy with ANY changes to the Exploration System.
The bold is critical to discovering that "thing" that seems to elude us all - we want to have the sense we are adding something to the story, whether it be our own individualized experience or to the grand scheme of the game.
But I thik what is lost in the request is that the medium is platform that cannot be infinite in options - in other words, it's a game, not a simulation. Even if the Devs tried to make the galaxy as big as it is in scale (ala EVE Online) at some point, players would simply have to reach a barrier or limit that cannot be breached.
Also, games by design have players conflict against the system or each other. I think that is why the current system is to enter a blank map, click on an "unknown" system only to discover that 1) you need to collect X for some reason, or 2) someone else is there and you need to beat them up. The details of either scenario becomes irrelevant once that pattern is discovered. Either way, the story is not being advanced and Outer Space is not being filled up. For example, I've been to the Delta Volanis Sector enough to have that area be colonized by the Federation already ... and I'm not at Upper Vice Admiral level :eek:
Thus, "exploration" is probably the greatest challenge any game style with this franchise will have and be tough to reproduce in a way that is "fun, repeatable [and] expandable".
Foundry missions generally involve getting ordered to go somewhere and do something; they're more like story missions than exploration ones.
The game has this now, the auto-generated genesis content that has always been there is some of the lamest content ever.
This is extremely hard content to pull off well so that it doesn't feel repetitive or just run around hitting F.
I'm not saying they shouldn't try to come up with something really cool, but I think that needs a lot of systems work otherwise its just going to feel as lame as genesis content already does.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I mean, from the planning standpoint at least.
Why not allow players to create exploration content in the foundry? This could work a bit different than current Foundry Episodes, as these would require missions to be short and to the point, but would allow for some sort of randomness and originality, as well as some story.
Just instead of repeating the same old "kill/scan 5 groups/plants/asteroids", we would play other players' missions. Add a lot of them, allow for some exchangable enemy/object types for additional variety, and you've got a true exploration system where (potentially) you would rarely play the same thing twice.
The only issue I can think of is sorting the content so that only good and complete missions would appear in the nebulas, and not any exploits or other jokes.
A couple options:
1. Add Foundry stuff. I suspect people that know the Foundry better than I can propose good ways of doing so. The thing is, it would require a set of new planets or systems to enter missions from, because the Foundry is tied in to existing locations, from what I understand. But that wouldn't be such a bad thing. Or perhaps create an "exploration" tag for Foundry missions, and allow those missions to be accessed from the current "Explore System" dialogs that pop up.
2. Hire another writer and perhaps even another world-builder (maybe an exceptional Foundry creator?) to make new content. The writer would write missions specifically for exploration content, that don't tie in to the main storyline. The world-builder would use existing assets only, to save time (which sounds a lot like using the Foundry). These missions could pop up in current exploration sectors randomly, or could be tied in to a new area with static planets.
2.5 If these new missions are tied in to static worlds, you could do something more like the Defera block, where we get to know a specific culture, and eventually get dailies. For the more popular exploration missions, the writer could add more missions to that planet as time goes on, giving players the sense that their contact has actually affected other people.
I think I see your problem.. These two words do not go together: Repeatable & Exploration.
An Exploration system should not be Repeatable. The random generation is great in the current system, the problem is that its the same cookie cutter missions over and over again.
You shouldn't have exploration "zones". Any captain should be able to goto any "Deep Space" wall to start an exploration mission. You should only be able to do one mission at a time and one the pool of mission are over. No more exploring. Until more content is added.
You can tie the Foundry system to it if you really want to increase the pool of available missions.
Another idea is when you open a new section you can do a fog of war, where we have to discover what is in the sector. Hell this would be a great idea for locating the Thorian Homeworld or other locations that are over there.
You can tie Accolade into it for a bit of fun...
Just random ideas...