Here's an idea... could the Hur'q be the same race as the "Shroomies?" The Cannon Trek never identified them as being Insectiod (it was only in Star Trek: Ivasionhttp://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Invasion). They could be the same species.
While I can't say Cryptic wouldn't do that, it would pose some problems. It had already been 800 years since the Hur'q had last been seen in the quadrant, and the ship was advanced, but not so much advanced over Enterprise that the race could be operating in the quadrant unnoticed by the race(s) they enslaved who were still looking for revenge another 200 years later.
That's because most of the "important" events in the Star Trek Universe (those pictured in the TV series) were in the Beta Quadrant. But if you actually look at the star charts by Geoffrey Mandel, most of the Federation is in the alpha quadrant. All of it except the important planets, really
Hmmm , I had always thought that in the TV shown , all of the major powers were in the Alpha quadrant with the Beta/Gamma/Delta being largely unexplored (before Ds9/Voy) .
Thus following the phrase 'To Boldly Go Where no Man has Gone Before' .
If I think about both the Alpha & Beta quadrants being largely occupied by known forces , where do we have left to ''Boldly Go' ?
Earth is right on the dividing line, the Federation straddles the line and the Klingon and Romulan Empires are entirely in the beta quadrant. DS9 seemed to have forgotten that part, treating everyone involved in the Dominion War as the alpha quadrant.
That square at the top contains both Earth and the Bajoran end of the wormhole, at opposite ends of the Federation, close enough together than they're basically the same point - that square is basically the entire STO map and then some. Grid lines are supposed to be explored space, meaning about half the Alpha Quadrant, most of the Bet and Delta quadrants, and almost the entire Gamma Quadrant are unexplored. And sheer density of stars is a factor. Even in TNG and DS9, there were systems inside Federation space that hadn't been properly charted, and ones that were poorly enough known that colonies and species still escaped notice for years or decades.
That's my guess. They were awesome though, so I'm all for it. They were truly menacing, too bad the ridiculous B plot dragged that episode down.
As you say, they were truly menacing and I was actually hoping to see them again since they were pretty cool. To be honest, I thought Enterprise could get far more millage from them, other than the one appearance.
Earth is right on the dividing line, the Federation straddles the line and the Klingon and Romulan Empires are entirely in the beta quadrant. DS9 seemed to have forgotten that part, treating everyone involved in the Dominion War as the alpha quadrant.
That square at the top contains both Earth and the Bajoran end of the wormhole, at opposite ends of the Federation, close enough together than they're basically the same point - that square is basically the entire STO map and then some. Grid lines are supposed to be explored space, meaning about half the Alpha Quadrant, most of the Bet and Delta quadrants, and almost the entire Gamma Quadrant are unexplored. And sheer density of stars is a factor. Even in TNG and DS9, there were systems inside Federation space that hadn't been properly charted, and ones that were poorly enough known that colonies and species still escaped notice for years or decades.
I always wondered about Voyager's distance to the Gamma quadrant side of the Bajoran Wormhole, and whether it might not have been faster to have headed for that. Would have ran into the Dominion a long time before they reached it though.
Also, as you say, space is biiiig. There are billions of stars in this galaxy. A territory like the Federation may look nice and neat with defined borders on paper, but in reality, it's swiss cheese. One must consider that even discounting stars that are technically within Federation boundaries that have remained uncharted, there are probably many planets that wouldn't or couldn't join the Federation, but are otherwise 100% surrounded by it.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
I always wondered about Voyager's distance to the Gamma quadrant side of the Bajoran Wormhole, and whether it might not have been faster to have headed for that. Would have ran into the Dominion a long time before they reached it though.
From the Endgame map, they were about equidistant from Earth and the Gamma end of the wormhole, just a bit closer to the wormhole.
However, Caretaker took place after The Jem'hadar, and the Federation at that point knew that the Dominion controlled at least the entire area around the wormhole (and a great distance out, since everyone they met seemed to agree that the Dominion was pretty much it around those parts), and was just about fed up with people coming through. It looks to me like Janeway gambled on the unknown over the known, when the known consisted of running away until they eventually just ram you and get it over with. They knew the Borg were somewhere in the Delta Quadrant, but it was a couple seasons in before they started seeing signs of Borg and getting an idea of just how widespread they were, and at that point the Borg were a lot better understood than the Jem'hadar. They wouldn't ram you out of spite, for example.
Also, as you say, space is biiiig. There are billions of stars in this galaxy. A territory like the Federation may look nice and neat with defined borders on paper, but in reality, it's swiss cheese. One must consider that even discounting stars that are technically within Federation boundaries that have remained uncharted, there are probably many planets that wouldn't or couldn't join the Federation, but are otherwise 100% surrounded by it.
TOS and TNG especially visited quite a few of those worlds. There were a number of warp and pre-warp civilizations that weren't part of the Federation but were still inside it, some of which were openly hostile to visits from Starfleet.
From the Endgame map, they were about equidistant from Earth and the Gamma end of the wormhole, just a bit closer to the wormhole.
However, Caretaker took place after The Jem'hadar, and the Federation at that point knew that the Dominion controlled at least the entire area around the wormhole (and a great distance out, since everyone they met seemed to agree that the Dominion was pretty much it around those parts), and was just about fed up with people coming through. It looks to me like Janeway gambled on the unknown over the known, when the known consisted of running away until they eventually just ram you and get it over with. They knew the Borg were somewhere in the Delta Quadrant, but it was a couple seasons in before they started seeing signs of Borg and getting an idea of just how widespread they were, and at that point the Borg were a lot better understood than the Jem'hadar. They wouldn't ram you out of spite, for example.
TOS and TNG especially visited quite a few of those worlds. There were a number of warp and pre-warp civilizations that weren't part of the Federation but were still inside it, some of which were openly hostile to visits from Starfleet.
It would be interesting to see a "What If...?" novel or comic where Voyager goes through the Gamma Quadrant. My one proviso for such a story is that I'd want to see one where the ship does not blow up and no more than 25% of the crew dies.
If characters are going to have plot armor in the regular timeline, I feel like they should still roughly in alternate timelines as well. I think it would make the writers work harder at making it interesting instead of, "Harry Kim had bacon instead of toast this morning! Everyone dies repeatedly!"
I'd always wondered if they might have gotten back a lot sooner. The Dominion War kicked off around the time Voyager was reaching Borg space (Unity), and ended at the end of season 5 (equinox). Assuming Voyager had reached Dominion space by that time and survived there during the war (which would require mk XXIV plot armor at least), their return (or if they did a lot of damage, their ejection) from the Gamma Quadrant could have been negotiated as one of the terms of the Treaty of Bajor.
While I can't say Cryptic wouldn't do that, it would pose some problems. It had already been 800 years since the Hur'q had last been seen in the quadrant, and the ship was advanced, but not so much advanced over Enterprise that the race could be operating in the quadrant unnoticed by the race(s) they enslaved who were still looking for revenge another 200 years later.
Well, the Klingons managed to beat the Hur'q, so maybe the technological difference was not as steep as we think. Admittedly the 800 years is a stretch, but I'm sure there would be some way to justify it. Maybe that was a recon ship coming to see what had happened in the last 800 years? Maybe an older vessel that was left behind when the rest of the Hur'q took off (which would also explain it's technological defficiency)?
The same -- or a similar -- ship model was used. That does not mean that they are the same species! (Keep in mind how many time general alien ship models have been re-used in the Star Trek franchise.)
I'd always wondered if they might have gotten back a lot sooner. The Dominion War kicked off around the time Voyager was reaching Borg space (Unity), and ended at the end of season 5 (equinox). Assuming Voyager had reached Dominion space by that time and survived there during the war (which would require mk XXIV plot armor at least), their return (or if they did a lot of damage, their ejection) from the Gamma Quadrant could have been negotiated as one of the terms of the Treaty of Bajor.
Assuming Voyager maintained their plotted course, No transwarping past Go and collecting 200 dollars or whatever, I don't think they would have hit the Gamma Quadrant. I think the route was always Delta to Beta to Alpha. So they were effectively going away from the gamma quadrant in the opposite direction.
yeah, one of the oft overlooked things about voyager's course is that they didn't have to cross the entire Delta quadrant. If they were all the way out, at the farthest point from the Alpha Quadrant, it would have been faster to turn around and go through Gamma. In reality, the Caretaker Array is somewhere in the middle of the quadrant, probably closer to Beta then Gamma. Delta to Beta would have been the most logical route, because not only is it probably shorter, but there's a higher likelihood of running into friendly ships sooner.
Having recently dug out my old The Way of D'era boxed set from the old LUG Star Trek pen-and-paper RPG series, I picked up on a possibility.
The Taurhai.
In 2313, a threat from the far side of Romulan space attacked the empire. The Taurhai used subspace funnel technology to put the Romulans strongly on the defensive. The war raged for 30 years before the Rommies finally defeated the Taurhai and sent them packing.
Could the Taurhai be returning for revenge, when the Romulans are now at their most fractured?
They aren't. The were created by Last Unicorn, so they're now owned by Wizards of the Coast, who have proven repeatedly in recent years that they're just a *delightful* company to work with.
Assuming Voyager maintained their plotted course, No transwarping past Go and collecting 200 dollars or whatever, I don't think they would have hit the Gamma Quadrant. I think the route was always Delta to Beta to Alpha. So they were effectively going away from the gamma quadrant in the opposite direction.
Their plotted course wouldn't even have gone to the Alpha Quadrant, it would have stopped at Earth right on the line. But that wasn't the point of those posts, the point was that, by the Endgame map, they were slightly closer to the Gamma Quadrant end of the wormhole than they were to Earth - eyeballing it around 60-65 years instead of 70. There's good arguments for why they didn't go that way, but the whole point of the post was speculating what would have happened if they had.
Comments
Hmmm , I had always thought that in the TV shown , all of the major powers were in the Alpha quadrant with the Beta/Gamma/Delta being largely unexplored (before Ds9/Voy) .
Thus following the phrase 'To Boldly Go Where no Man has Gone Before' .
If I think about both the Alpha & Beta quadrants being largely occupied by known forces , where do we have left to ''Boldly Go' ?
Also, the known powers aren't the entire quadrant by a long shot. Take the map of Voyager's original trip home at the start of Endgame:
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2007/09/15/star-trek-voyager-map-home/
That square at the top contains both Earth and the Bajoran end of the wormhole, at opposite ends of the Federation, close enough together than they're basically the same point - that square is basically the entire STO map and then some. Grid lines are supposed to be explored space, meaning about half the Alpha Quadrant, most of the Bet and Delta quadrants, and almost the entire Gamma Quadrant are unexplored. And sheer density of stars is a factor. Even in TNG and DS9, there were systems inside Federation space that hadn't been properly charted, and ones that were poorly enough known that colonies and species still escaped notice for years or decades.
As you say, they were truly menacing and I was actually hoping to see them again since they were pretty cool. To be honest, I thought Enterprise could get far more millage from them, other than the one appearance.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
I always wondered about Voyager's distance to the Gamma quadrant side of the Bajoran Wormhole, and whether it might not have been faster to have headed for that. Would have ran into the Dominion a long time before they reached it though.
Also, as you say, space is biiiig. There are billions of stars in this galaxy. A territory like the Federation may look nice and neat with defined borders on paper, but in reality, it's swiss cheese. One must consider that even discounting stars that are technically within Federation boundaries that have remained uncharted, there are probably many planets that wouldn't or couldn't join the Federation, but are otherwise 100% surrounded by it.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
From the Endgame map, they were about equidistant from Earth and the Gamma end of the wormhole, just a bit closer to the wormhole.
However, Caretaker took place after The Jem'hadar, and the Federation at that point knew that the Dominion controlled at least the entire area around the wormhole (and a great distance out, since everyone they met seemed to agree that the Dominion was pretty much it around those parts), and was just about fed up with people coming through. It looks to me like Janeway gambled on the unknown over the known, when the known consisted of running away until they eventually just ram you and get it over with. They knew the Borg were somewhere in the Delta Quadrant, but it was a couple seasons in before they started seeing signs of Borg and getting an idea of just how widespread they were, and at that point the Borg were a lot better understood than the Jem'hadar. They wouldn't ram you out of spite, for example.
TOS and TNG especially visited quite a few of those worlds. There were a number of warp and pre-warp civilizations that weren't part of the Federation but were still inside it, some of which were openly hostile to visits from Starfleet.
It would be interesting to see a "What If...?" novel or comic where Voyager goes through the Gamma Quadrant. My one proviso for such a story is that I'd want to see one where the ship does not blow up and no more than 25% of the crew dies.
If characters are going to have plot armor in the regular timeline, I feel like they should still roughly in alternate timelines as well. I think it would make the writers work harder at making it interesting instead of, "Harry Kim had bacon instead of toast this morning! Everyone dies repeatedly!"
Well, the Klingons managed to beat the Hur'q, so maybe the technological difference was not as steep as we think. Admittedly the 800 years is a stretch, but I'm sure there would be some way to justify it. Maybe that was a recon ship coming to see what had happened in the last 800 years? Maybe an older vessel that was left behind when the rest of the Hur'q took off (which would also explain it's technological defficiency)?
Eh ok, so you're telling us it's the "silent enemy" from the ENT episode after all?
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
We know the Fen Domar is some formidable species in the Beta Quadrant, somewhere on the other side of the Klingons' and Romulans' space.
Huge unexplored potential with them.
Assuming Voyager maintained their plotted course, No transwarping past Go and collecting 200 dollars or whatever, I don't think they would have hit the Gamma Quadrant. I think the route was always Delta to Beta to Alpha. So they were effectively going away from the gamma quadrant in the opposite direction.
The Taurhai.
In 2313, a threat from the far side of Romulan space attacked the empire. The Taurhai used subspace funnel technology to put the Romulans strongly on the defensive. The war raged for 30 years before the Rommies finally defeated the Taurhai and sent them packing.
Could the Taurhai be returning for revenge, when the Romulans are now at their most fractured?
Their plotted course wouldn't even have gone to the Alpha Quadrant, it would have stopped at Earth right on the line. But that wasn't the point of those posts, the point was that, by the Endgame map, they were slightly closer to the Gamma Quadrant end of the wormhole than they were to Earth - eyeballing it around 60-65 years instead of 70. There's good arguments for why they didn't go that way, but the whole point of the post was speculating what would have happened if they had.