Well for one thing, they shouldn't drain like the regular weapons do because that makes them completely useless, Aux isnt there for show and the only people to use aux are science ships who need it for their skills
They don't do anywhere near the same damage as the other cannons do so why bother with them imo. I was making a new science character but it's really worthless imo to use these at all!
If they made them anywhere near the damage output of the quads I could understand their purpose but really I don't It's sorta like using the defiant for pve you really won't be using 50 in engines which is required for quads honestly.
Now what they should have done is made these weapons get enhanced damage bonuses from the other types of power instead of relying on these types that would have made sense so that it would remain balanced yet a benefit.
You're comparing apples to oranges.
Yes, there are other cannons that are better. They're only better if you put enough power to weapons, though. If you're putting that much power to weapons then you're skimping in another area. It means that in order to have 125 aux power your shields and engines are underpowered. Yes, your cannons may do more damage but the rest of ship is lacking.
By pumping max power to aux and using the aux cannons (which aren't THAT much less powerful than other cannons) you're still hitting very hard, you have max aux to use science abilities (the area where a science ship shines) AND you've got enough power to feed shields and engines.
Remember, science ships aren't DPS machines. They're science machines. Aux cannons give the science machine a bigger bite.
They don't do anywhere near the same damage as the other cannons do so why bother with them imo. I was making a new science character but it's really worthless imo to use these at all!
I just checked and they do exactly the same amount of damage as a regular [Acc]x2 [Dmg] Phaser DHC (of which, there's only 4 on the Exchange starting from 14.9 million EC).
The new Advanced Fleet [Acc]x2 [Dmg]x2 are arguably better but you couldn't run a 125 Aux build without switching power all the time, popping batteries or just gimping your DPS.
The Sao Paulo's Quad Phaser Cannons do more DPS because they're [Dmg]x4 - but they don't have the [Acc] mod so whether they're a superior weapon depends on what content you like to play.
Ok... Yes... your statements must be true because you eyeballed some tooltips...
When you actually parse numbers then you understand how everything really interacts, and then you make accurate statements about the amount of damage being done.
You should have realized you didn't know what you were talking about the moment you thought the quad cannons were high DPS...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Ok... Yes... your statements must be true because you eyeballed some tooltips...
When you actually parse numbers then you understand how everything really interacts, and then you make accurate statements about the amount of damage being done.
You should have realized you didn't know what you were talking about the moment you thought the quad cannons were high DPS...
They are high-DPS - that alone doesn't make them superior weapons though (as I pointed out) - many people consider the [Dmg] modifier the least desirable one to have - I'm one of them.
Some people however just see the DPS and think 'more=better'.
And regarding the Aux DHCs - they're the same. Exactly the same as Mk XII Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc]x2 [Dmg] - they perform the same at 125 Aux as the regular ones do at 125 Weapons - why is that so hard for you to accept/understand?
Ok... Yes... your statements must be true because you eyeballed some tooltips...
When you actually parse numbers then you understand how everything really interacts, and then you make accurate statements about the amount of damage being done.
You should have realized you didn't know what you were talking about the moment you thought the quad cannons were high DPS...
I parse numbers too. I've seen that when you run a pure aux build you MORE than make up the slight bit of damage loss through your science abilities.
Oh, this holier than thou attitude? It's old now. Get over it. You're making yourself look foolish.
And this is how ignorance perpetuates on the forums. Those who actually do the math and try to help get driven away by people making religious arguments over how they think things work...
Have fun, I have some runs to top perform in...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
And this is how ignorance perpetuates on the forums. Those who actually do the math and try to help get driven away by people making religious arguments over how they think things work...
Have fun, I have some runs to top perform in...
Sorry Kimmy but you're the one not backing up your claims - I'll make this simple so you understand:
DHCs = 12 drain
Turrets = 8 drain
Aux DHCs are identical to Mk XII Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc]x2 [Dmg], they just use Aux instead of Weapons power.
125 Weapons build:
DHC 1 = 125 power (0 drain)
DHC 2 = 113 power (12 drain)
DHC 3 = 101 power (12 drain)
Turret 1 = 89 power (12 drain)
Turret 2 = 81 power (8 drain)
Turret 3 = 73 power (8 drain)
125 Aux/100 Weapons build:
Aux DHC 1 = 125 aux power (0 drain)
Aux DHC 2 = 113 aux power (12 drain)
Aux DHC 3 = 101 aux power (12 drain)
Turret 1 = 100 weapons power (0 drain)
Turret 2 = 92 weapons power (8 drain)
Turret 3 = 84 weapons power (8 drain)
Pretty simple huh? 2 x separate power reserves mean you can potentially do more damage than you can with one whilst still running max Aux.
Sorry Kimmy but you're the one not backing up your claims - I'll make this simple so you understand:
DHCs = 12 drain
Turrets = 8 drain
Aux DHCs are identical to Mk XII Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc]x2 [Dmg], they just use Aux instead of Weapons power.
125 Weapons build:
DHC 1 = 125 power (0 drain)
DHC 2 = 113 power (12 drain)
DHC 3 = 101 power (12 drain)
Turret 1 = 89 power (12 drain)
Turret 2 = 81 power (8 drain)
Turret 3 = 73 power (8 drain)
125 Aux/100 Weapons build:
Aux DHC 1 = 125 aux power (0 drain)
Aux DHC 2 = 113 aux power (12 drain)
Aux DHC 3 = 101 aux power (12 drain)
Turret 1 = 100 weapons power (0 drain)
Turret 2 = 92 weapons power (8 drain)
Turret 3 = 84 weapons power (8 drain)
Pretty simple huh? 2 x separate power reserves mean you can potentially do more damage than you can with one whilst still running max Aux.
You're wasting your time. kimmym won't listen to reason or fact. She just wants to make claims after claim that her way is the best without substantiating those claims.
It appears that every other poster in this thread thinks your full of rubbish, kimmym. Why don't you do us all a favour and fade away so we don't have to deal with your trolling?
Look, the burden of proof is not on me. I pasrsed logs for hours and hours and hours, changed builds, trained boffs, bugged people to train boffs, did math, and deleted that data months ago.
If you want to do sloppy math on tooltips and submit them as proof, feel free.
If you want to post a build with parses, then allow me to attempt to beat that build and provide parses, I first need you to give me something to work with.
Ball is in your court. What is the build you use that uses aux cannons that cannot be beat by a build using stronger weapons? Where is the parse? Provide that data and I can prove it wrong. Elsewise I can only prove that *I* do better with one weapon or the other. Give me the tools and I will gladly test this argument, not because I believe I'm right or to prove your wrong, simply because I am interested in what the math says and enjoy definitive answers.
You can rant all you want, but until you learn how to install a parser, its just ranting.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Let me point out that you stated the Aux DHCs were 'starter weapons' - all I did was point out that they're exactly the same as Mk XII Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc]x2 [Dmg].
My point was that with a certain (extreme) build you can get more DPS out of 125 Aux/100 Weapons setup than you could with the regular Phaser DHCs (with the same mods) - and at the same time have max Aux for Sci powers.
It centers around power drain and it's incredibly obvious if you take the time to look at it - I don't need to parse it to know it's correct.
I never implied that would outperform weapons with superior mods (i.e. the new Advanced Fleet weapons or different energy types) however to use them at their most effective you have to run 125 Weapons which means you're reducing your available Aux.
You haven't put forward any logic as to why this wouldn't work other than 'it just won't' whilst I'm running this setup on a Sci and a Tac and I can tell you it does - extremely well.
I'm not about to spend 75 million EC on a bunch of Phaser DHCs I don't need just to prove what I already know is true, so it's a moot point - believe what you want to believe.
Look, the burden of proof is not on me. I pasrsed logs for hours and hours and hours, changed builds, trained boffs, bugged people to train boffs, did math, and deleted that data months ago.
If you want to do sloppy math on tooltips and submit them as proof, feel free.
If you want to post a build with parses, then allow me to attempt to beat that build and provide parses, I first need you to give me something to work with.
Ball is in your court. What is the build you use that uses aux cannons that cannot be beat by a build using stronger weapons? Where is the parse? Provide that data and I can prove it wrong. Elsewise I can only prove that *I* do better with one weapon or the other. Give me the tools and I will gladly test this argument, not because I believe I'm right or to prove your wrong, simply because I am interested in what the math says and enjoy definitive answers.
You can rant all you want, but until you learn how to install a parser, its just ranting.
So you come on here trashing other people and then when you're asked to back up your talk you try to turn it around? Nice attempt at an evade. I've parsed my runs enough to know that a Vesta with aux cannons will outperform a Vesta with regular cannons on the basis that the added shield and engine power, coupled with max aux results in better longevity, better turn and more effective science powers.
No. We called you out. You're not prepared to show your hand. In poker, that equates to you folding.
Don't let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out.
Never said it didn't work, in fact if you bothered to actually read my posts I said they were adequate.
I then went on to clarify this was from a min maxers perspective, and quite clearly explained the reasons.
I was then insulted and berated, all for trying to be like, "Look man, its no big deal, you grow past these weapons anyway" any now I have 2 jerks questioning my entire credibility, all due to their poor reading comprehension.
Yeah... Teaches me to try and help.
If this is how you talk to all the ladies, I no longer wonder why Trekkies have a stereotype of virginity...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Never said it didn't work, in fact if you bothered to actually read my posts I said they were adequate.
And yet you've never discussed a 'superior' setup other than the simplest one available - dump some regular weapons in there and crank Weapons power to 125. I've merely pointed out that there's ways of getting more out of these than you've given them credit for.
I then went on to clarify this was from a min maxers perspective, and quite clearly explained the reasons.
As a 'min maxer' you should know how far you can push power levels using skill points, Boffs and equipment/consoles - following this route makes the Aux DHCs extremely viable - but you already knew that didn't you?
I was then insulted and berated, all for trying to be like, "Look man, its no big deal, you grow past these weapons anyway" any now I have 2 jerks questioning my entire credibility, all due to their poor reading comprehension.
I've never once 'insulted and berated' you but thanks for the unwarranted insults, you're a real peach.
Never said it didn't work, in fact if you bothered to actually read my posts I said they were adequate.
I then went on to clarify this was from a min maxers perspective, and quite clearly explained the reasons.
I was then insulted and berated, all for trying to be like, "Look man, its no big deal, you grow past these weapons anyway" any now I have 2 jerks questioning my entire credibility, all due to their poor reading comprehension.
Yeah... Teaches me to try and help.
If this is how you talk to all the ladies, I no longer wonder why Trekkies have a stereotype of virginity...
So you start posting by saying anything you can do I can do better and you call this helping. We clearly have different definitions of help.
What on Earth does your gender have to do with anything related to aux cannons or this thread? And virginity? How does that tie in to any of this? Why bring any of that up? Quite frankly, your gender and/or sexuality is irrelevant. Your attitude and one-upmanship, however, is not.
None of that started until after you all started saying my ego wasn't evolved. Pay attention to the chain of events.
My first posts clearly explained why I didn't think the aux cannons needed reverted, and why I say others are better, in ways that were clearly meant to be helpful. You came in looking for conflict. I was trying to be nice.
Thanks, meanie.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I don't use the aux cannons on my Vesta. There is a reason. You're half way there already.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Lol! The only thin skin around here is yours - you misguidedly stated opinion as fact and when myself and others offered an alternative perspective, you went on the defensive.
No one's attacking you (at least they weren't anyway) - just offering a different point of view that doesn't necessarily agree with yours.
And with no batteries I build my vesta, and my atrox both, to have both 125 aux and 125 wep, so I'm not certain your pride... Or your point? And I haven't skimped on shield power either.
I wasn't attacked when I was told, "Whether it's a "big deal" or not is a matter of opinion. If you had a fully formed ego you'd know this"?
Yeah... whatever... thanks for it. I was trying to help... Way to go.
Which was chuckingram's comment - one of only two posts he's made in this thread in fact so I'd suggest you direct your ire at him rather than me - I just wanted to present a different point-of-view on how to use these weapons in a very effective fashion - one that you dismissed out of hand.
I did denote it as a matter of opinion... first letters of the line... IMO...
And then went on to tell me that I was wrong because of all these tests and parses you've done when in fact, I'm not wrong - it's really very simple and honestly, I think the reason you thought the Aux DHCs were 'starter weapons' is because it never occurred to you that you might actually be able to 'min max' a Captain and Ship around them.
Thanks... I'll remember that next time somebody asks for help.
Perhaps the next time someone asks for help, you might be open-minded enough to accept that other people may have found other ways around the issues you weren't able to? You might even find it interesting.
I in fact do and would, it is the essence of learning, if I wasn't dealing with a crowd of people ganging up on me with somebody who just told me my ego wasn't formed because I was trying to help somebody.
If you don't want to be judged by the company you keep, keep better company.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
And I was attacked long before any of those posts, thanks. Dish it out but can't take it? I see.
No, it's not a case of not being able to take it at all. I have been very patient in this thread. I also have no wish for confrontation.
So.
Hello, my name is Darramouss, let's start again without ANY hostility from either side.
My point that I originally wanted to query (aux cannons being affected by both eapons and aux power levels) has been answered. Thank you.
Further to that, I don't agree that they should be. The cannons get their power from the aux system. To my mind if the aux system is feeding them power then they should be firing.
Yes, people may argue that if weapons are down then targeting should be down, hence no aux cannons. I woud argue against this point on the basis that you are still able to fire and hit with abilities like the deflector beam or graviton pulse, both of which are deflector abilities, when weapons are down.
I agree, and I'm sorry for that hideous display of agression.
I can go either way on the issue, but I do understand the reasoning. If aux cannons are not affected by the weapons subsystem going out then there is no way to really lock down a Vesta.
Could it be ok? I think it probably could stand. They are only DHCs in aux, so you can just get out of the way. Hell, disabling engines might be a better way to handle it in the first place =P.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Further to that, I don't agree that they should be. The cannons get their power from the aux system. To my mind if the aux system is feeding them power then they should be firing.
Yes, people may argue that if weapons are down then targeting should be down, hence no aux cannons. I woud argue against this point on the basis that you are still able to fire and hit with abilities like the deflector beam or graviton pulse, both of which are deflector abilities, when weapons are down.
I'd like them to carry on firing whilst weapons are disabled but I accept that they don't - it's kind of a Catch 22 - effects that disable weapons should disable the Vesta's weapons (irrespective of what they are) and likewise, effects that disable Aux should disable Aux.
Aux DHCs give you the opportunity to do something that you can't do in any other ship - run continuous high-Aux for Sci skills and heals and do more DPS than any other ship running high-Aux can do - that's the trade-off and for the most part I'm Ok with.
(Until my Aux goes offline and my weapons stop firing lol!)
I agree, and I'm sorry for that hideous display of agression.
I can go either way on the issue, but I do understand the reasoning. If aux cannons are not affected by the weapons subsystem going out then there is no way to really lock down a Vesta.
Could it be ok? I think it probably could stand. They are only DHCs in aux, so you can just get out of the way. Hell, disabling engines might be a better way to handle it in the first place =P.
Bygones and all. I think everyone in this thread should follow our example. Life is too short to argue.
If you knock the aux system offline then you cripple weapons AND sci output. I'd go so far to say that that is more damaging than a sci ship with regular weapons. On a sci ship with regular weapons if you know aux offline it can still fire. If you knock weapons it still has sci abilities.
And this is the core of the real reason why I don't use my aux cannons. I stand by my numbers (Tho I am perfectly willing to accept new numbers) but the core of it started when I realized I was really getting pounded hard by disables.
At least running wep DHC target aux leaves my weapons up, and if I'm under a viral matrix then either my aux or wep is up, I'm not totally dead in the water thru *BOTH* phases of VM.
That and they were eating my aux when they fired. You can get around that with using only 1, tho.
End of the day, it was a lot of hassle. Then I got DHCs that did better on their worst day then my aux cannons did on their best.
I simply out grew them.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I won't post my full build (I might put it on the skills planner at some point though) but right now I'm running:
3 x Aux DHCs
2 x [Acc]x2 [Dmg] Mk XII Phaser Turrets
1 x Kinetic Cutting Beam (for the Omega Amplifier)
Mk XI Borg Deflector (+5 Aux and Autonomous Regeneration Sequencer)
Mk XI Jem'hadar Engines (+4 Weapons)
Mk XI Borg Shields (+5 Shields and Autonomous Regeneration Sequencer)
2 x very-rare Plasma Distribution Manifold Mk XII (+8 Weapons)
Borg Console (+5 Weapons and Omega Amplifier)
Zero-Point Energy Conduit (+1.8 all Systems)
Transwarp Computer (+22.9 Warp Core Efficiency)
2 x rare Field Generators Mk XI
3 x rare Phaser Relay Mk XI (to be replaced with Mk XI purple soon)
3 x Efficient Saurians (+22.5 Warp Core Efficiency)
9 points in:
Weapons Training/Energy Weapons/Targeting/Energy Specialization
Shield/Weapon/Aux Performance (max possible points in Shields/Weapons/Aux)
Warp Core Efficiency/Potential
With all that, my non-buffed power levels are:
W: 98/60
S: 60/25
E: 45/25
A: 125/90
There's some more tweaks I can do (Jemmie Mk XII Engine would add another 2.5 points to Weapons) and I'm hoping we get the Plasmonic Leech Fed-side at some point because this build will be crazy then
Incidentally, if anyone knows a way of pushing the power levels even higher (any Doffs that do that?) then please let me know - I think I've gotten the most possible out of the gear available in the game (well, apart from the Mk XII Jem'hadar Engine but I don't have the Lobi for that).
Comments
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
You're comparing apples to oranges.
Yes, there are other cannons that are better. They're only better if you put enough power to weapons, though. If you're putting that much power to weapons then you're skimping in another area. It means that in order to have 125 aux power your shields and engines are underpowered. Yes, your cannons may do more damage but the rest of ship is lacking.
By pumping max power to aux and using the aux cannons (which aren't THAT much less powerful than other cannons) you're still hitting very hard, you have max aux to use science abilities (the area where a science ship shines) AND you've got enough power to feed shields and engines.
Remember, science ships aren't DPS machines. They're science machines. Aux cannons give the science machine a bigger bite.
I just checked and they do exactly the same amount of damage as a regular [Acc]x2 [Dmg] Phaser DHC (of which, there's only 4 on the Exchange starting from 14.9 million EC).
The new Advanced Fleet [Acc]x2 [Dmg]x2 are arguably better but you couldn't run a 125 Aux build without switching power all the time, popping batteries or just gimping your DPS.
The Sao Paulo's Quad Phaser Cannons do more DPS because they're [Dmg]x4 - but they don't have the [Acc] mod so whether they're a superior weapon depends on what content you like to play.
When you actually parse numbers then you understand how everything really interacts, and then you make accurate statements about the amount of damage being done.
You should have realized you didn't know what you were talking about the moment you thought the quad cannons were high DPS...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
They are high-DPS - that alone doesn't make them superior weapons though (as I pointed out) - many people consider the [Dmg] modifier the least desirable one to have - I'm one of them.
Some people however just see the DPS and think 'more=better'.
And regarding the Aux DHCs - they're the same. Exactly the same as Mk XII Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc]x2 [Dmg] - they perform the same at 125 Aux as the regular ones do at 125 Weapons - why is that so hard for you to accept/understand?
I parse numbers too. I've seen that when you run a pure aux build you MORE than make up the slight bit of damage loss through your science abilities.
Oh, this holier than thou attitude? It's old now. Get over it. You're making yourself look foolish.
Have fun, I have some runs to top perform in...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Sorry Kimmy but you're the one not backing up your claims - I'll make this simple so you understand:
DHCs = 12 drain
Turrets = 8 drain
Aux DHCs are identical to Mk XII Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc]x2 [Dmg], they just use Aux instead of Weapons power.
125 Weapons build:
DHC 1 = 125 power (0 drain)
DHC 2 = 113 power (12 drain)
DHC 3 = 101 power (12 drain)
Turret 1 = 89 power (12 drain)
Turret 2 = 81 power (8 drain)
Turret 3 = 73 power (8 drain)
125 Aux/100 Weapons build:
Aux DHC 1 = 125 aux power (0 drain)
Aux DHC 2 = 113 aux power (12 drain)
Aux DHC 3 = 101 aux power (12 drain)
Turret 1 = 100 weapons power (0 drain)
Turret 2 = 92 weapons power (8 drain)
Turret 3 = 84 weapons power (8 drain)
Pretty simple huh? 2 x separate power reserves mean you can potentially do more damage than you can with one whilst still running max Aux.
You're wasting your time. kimmym won't listen to reason or fact. She just wants to make claims after claim that her way is the best without substantiating those claims.
It appears that every other poster in this thread thinks your full of rubbish, kimmym. Why don't you do us all a favour and fade away so we don't have to deal with your trolling?
Look, the burden of proof is not on me. I pasrsed logs for hours and hours and hours, changed builds, trained boffs, bugged people to train boffs, did math, and deleted that data months ago.
If you want to do sloppy math on tooltips and submit them as proof, feel free.
If you want to post a build with parses, then allow me to attempt to beat that build and provide parses, I first need you to give me something to work with.
Ball is in your court. What is the build you use that uses aux cannons that cannot be beat by a build using stronger weapons? Where is the parse? Provide that data and I can prove it wrong. Elsewise I can only prove that *I* do better with one weapon or the other. Give me the tools and I will gladly test this argument, not because I believe I'm right or to prove your wrong, simply because I am interested in what the math says and enjoy definitive answers.
You can rant all you want, but until you learn how to install a parser, its just ranting.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Let me point out that you stated the Aux DHCs were 'starter weapons' - all I did was point out that they're exactly the same as Mk XII Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons [Acc]x2 [Dmg].
My point was that with a certain (extreme) build you can get more DPS out of 125 Aux/100 Weapons setup than you could with the regular Phaser DHCs (with the same mods) - and at the same time have max Aux for Sci powers.
It centers around power drain and it's incredibly obvious if you take the time to look at it - I don't need to parse it to know it's correct.
I never implied that would outperform weapons with superior mods (i.e. the new Advanced Fleet weapons or different energy types) however to use them at their most effective you have to run 125 Weapons which means you're reducing your available Aux.
You haven't put forward any logic as to why this wouldn't work other than 'it just won't' whilst I'm running this setup on a Sci and a Tac and I can tell you it does - extremely well.
I'm not about to spend 75 million EC on a bunch of Phaser DHCs I don't need just to prove what I already know is true, so it's a moot point - believe what you want to believe.
So you come on here trashing other people and then when you're asked to back up your talk you try to turn it around? Nice attempt at an evade. I've parsed my runs enough to know that a Vesta with aux cannons will outperform a Vesta with regular cannons on the basis that the added shield and engine power, coupled with max aux results in better longevity, better turn and more effective science powers.
No. We called you out. You're not prepared to show your hand. In poker, that equates to you folding.
Don't let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out.
I then went on to clarify this was from a min maxers perspective, and quite clearly explained the reasons.
I was then insulted and berated, all for trying to be like, "Look man, its no big deal, you grow past these weapons anyway" any now I have 2 jerks questioning my entire credibility, all due to their poor reading comprehension.
Yeah... Teaches me to try and help.
If this is how you talk to all the ladies, I no longer wonder why Trekkies have a stereotype of virginity...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
And yet you've never discussed a 'superior' setup other than the simplest one available - dump some regular weapons in there and crank Weapons power to 125. I've merely pointed out that there's ways of getting more out of these than you've given them credit for.
As a 'min maxer' you should know how far you can push power levels using skill points, Boffs and equipment/consoles - following this route makes the Aux DHCs extremely viable - but you already knew that didn't you?
I've never once 'insulted and berated' you but thanks for the unwarranted insults, you're a real peach.
There's a difference between helping and stating your opinions as fact.
Cute. But believe it or not, you're not the only girl on this forum :P
So you start posting by saying anything you can do I can do better and you call this helping. We clearly have different definitions of help.
What on Earth does your gender have to do with anything related to aux cannons or this thread? And virginity? How does that tie in to any of this? Why bring any of that up? Quite frankly, your gender and/or sexuality is irrelevant. Your attitude and one-upmanship, however, is not.
My first posts clearly explained why I didn't think the aux cannons needed reverted, and why I say others are better, in ways that were clearly meant to be helpful. You came in looking for conflict. I was trying to be nice.
Thanks, meanie.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Wow, the skin is thin around these parts.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Lol! The only thin skin around here is yours - you misguidedly stated opinion as fact and when myself and others offered an alternative perspective, you went on the defensive.
No one's attacking you (at least they weren't anyway) - just offering a different point of view that doesn't necessarily agree with yours.
We can still do that here right?
Yeah... whatever... thanks for it. I was trying to help... Way to go.
I did denote it as a matter of opinion... first letters of the line... IMO...
Thanks... I'll remember that next time somebody asks for help.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I got fed up with the attitude after you had posted these. I made this known at post #28 in this thread.
I value the opinions of people when they're not holier than thou or confrontational.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Which was chuckingram's comment - one of only two posts he's made in this thread in fact so I'd suggest you direct your ire at him rather than me - I just wanted to present a different point-of-view on how to use these weapons in a very effective fashion - one that you dismissed out of hand.
And then went on to tell me that I was wrong because of all these tests and parses you've done when in fact, I'm not wrong - it's really very simple and honestly, I think the reason you thought the Aux DHCs were 'starter weapons' is because it never occurred to you that you might actually be able to 'min max' a Captain and Ship around them.
Perhaps the next time someone asks for help, you might be open-minded enough to accept that other people may have found other ways around the issues you weren't able to? You might even find it interesting.
If you don't want to be judged by the company you keep, keep better company.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
No, it's not a case of not being able to take it at all. I have been very patient in this thread. I also have no wish for confrontation.
So.
Hello, my name is Darramouss, let's start again without ANY hostility from either side.
My point that I originally wanted to query (aux cannons being affected by both eapons and aux power levels) has been answered. Thank you.
Further to that, I don't agree that they should be. The cannons get their power from the aux system. To my mind if the aux system is feeding them power then they should be firing.
Yes, people may argue that if weapons are down then targeting should be down, hence no aux cannons. I woud argue against this point on the basis that you are still able to fire and hit with abilities like the deflector beam or graviton pulse, both of which are deflector abilities, when weapons are down.
I agree, and I'm sorry for that hideous display of agression.
I can go either way on the issue, but I do understand the reasoning. If aux cannons are not affected by the weapons subsystem going out then there is no way to really lock down a Vesta.
Could it be ok? I think it probably could stand. They are only DHCs in aux, so you can just get out of the way. Hell, disabling engines might be a better way to handle it in the first place =P.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I'd like them to carry on firing whilst weapons are disabled but I accept that they don't - it's kind of a Catch 22 - effects that disable weapons should disable the Vesta's weapons (irrespective of what they are) and likewise, effects that disable Aux should disable Aux.
Aux DHCs give you the opportunity to do something that you can't do in any other ship - run continuous high-Aux for Sci skills and heals and do more DPS than any other ship running high-Aux can do - that's the trade-off and for the most part I'm Ok with.
(Until my Aux goes offline and my weapons stop firing lol!)
Bygones and all. I think everyone in this thread should follow our example. Life is too short to argue.
If you knock the aux system offline then you cripple weapons AND sci output. I'd go so far to say that that is more damaging than a sci ship with regular weapons. On a sci ship with regular weapons if you know aux offline it can still fire. If you knock weapons it still has sci abilities.
At least running wep DHC target aux leaves my weapons up, and if I'm under a viral matrix then either my aux or wep is up, I'm not totally dead in the water thru *BOTH* phases of VM.
That and they were eating my aux when they fired. You can get around that with using only 1, tho.
End of the day, it was a lot of hassle. Then I got DHCs that did better on their worst day then my aux cannons did on their best.
I simply out grew them.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
3 x Aux DHCs
2 x [Acc]x2 [Dmg] Mk XII Phaser Turrets
1 x Kinetic Cutting Beam (for the Omega Amplifier)
Mk XI Borg Deflector (+5 Aux and Autonomous Regeneration Sequencer)
Mk XI Jem'hadar Engines (+4 Weapons)
Mk XI Borg Shields (+5 Shields and Autonomous Regeneration Sequencer)
2 x very-rare Plasma Distribution Manifold Mk XII (+8 Weapons)
Borg Console (+5 Weapons and Omega Amplifier)
Zero-Point Energy Conduit (+1.8 all Systems)
Transwarp Computer (+22.9 Warp Core Efficiency)
2 x rare Field Generators Mk XI
3 x rare Phaser Relay Mk XI (to be replaced with Mk XI purple soon)
3 x Efficient Saurians (+22.5 Warp Core Efficiency)
Captain Traits: Accurate, Warp Theorist (+10 Warp Core Potential)
9 points in:
Weapons Training/Energy Weapons/Targeting/Energy Specialization
Shield/Weapon/Aux Performance (max possible points in Shields/Weapons/Aux)
Warp Core Efficiency/Potential
With all that, my non-buffed power levels are:
W: 98/60
S: 60/25
E: 45/25
A: 125/90
There's some more tweaks I can do (Jemmie Mk XII Engine would add another 2.5 points to Weapons) and I'm hoping we get the Plasmonic Leech Fed-side at some point because this build will be crazy then
Incidentally, if anyone knows a way of pushing the power levels even higher (any Doffs that do that?) then please let me know - I think I've gotten the most possible out of the gear available in the game (well, apart from the Mk XII Jem'hadar Engine but I don't have the Lobi for that).