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thishorizon
Member Posts: 1,158
Hey PVPRs... Been a while....
Just wanted to share some thoughts with you. Mainly about a favorite ship for some of us, and most of us feel just doesn't have the raw stats to be competitive in a Jem Hadar bug ship filled PVP queue. That ship, is the iconic Defiant class.
From as far back as I can remember, after seeing the Sisko pound through enemy targets in this ship, I've wanted a video game that gave me the opportunity to pilot this awesome looking Federation ship, and gave me the feel of how it performed onscreen. This game is the closest we have for that friends. So, Ive decided to give it another go.
Lets face it, it just doesn't have the turn rate of the bug. And to give up those precious eng console slots to get it there, is just too expensive at the cost of valuable defensive armors. It also lacks the shield capacity of the bug. And to give up the little other wiggle room you have via Sci console slots, makes thinking boosting shield cap pretty much a no go.
So where does that leave us? It's a better ship than pretty much all other fed escorts, maybe the steam runner or mvae while separated will give it a go. But, the cloak alone gives the Defiant a bit of a X factor.
The ship has the bite, we all know this. 5 tac consoles and the ability to use 4 dual heavy cannons, or slot 2 dual beam banks for a decloaking DEM doff double beam overload strike. Yet, the bop will always be a better spike killer, due to the ever valuable universal boff stations it carries to throw in some Sci CC like PSW or VM.
So again.... The defiant just doesn't seem to fill any escort roll at its best. Yet, I find myself every month or so getting back in my favorite ship, to see what she can do. I am never disappointed. I just die quicker, and I am less versatile than all those bugs out there. Which I don't mind, usually I can make up the difference with my piloting experience, or situational awareness. Speccing into stealth actually has me creeping up to science ships within 3 clicks without being seen.... That ain't too shabby.
So, I guess what I'm getting at, is.... You experienced fedscort pilots out there that have a bug ship, don't forget about the old defiant. She looks good, has the spike, and with 2 copies of epts and omegas packed, she has the defense of any average escort. Push yourselves. With just about every QQ'r out there that doesn't have a bug ship raging in zone chat that the ship is the only reason you pwned them.....
Be the Sisko
Have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
Just wanted to share some thoughts with you. Mainly about a favorite ship for some of us, and most of us feel just doesn't have the raw stats to be competitive in a Jem Hadar bug ship filled PVP queue. That ship, is the iconic Defiant class.
From as far back as I can remember, after seeing the Sisko pound through enemy targets in this ship, I've wanted a video game that gave me the opportunity to pilot this awesome looking Federation ship, and gave me the feel of how it performed onscreen. This game is the closest we have for that friends. So, Ive decided to give it another go.
Lets face it, it just doesn't have the turn rate of the bug. And to give up those precious eng console slots to get it there, is just too expensive at the cost of valuable defensive armors. It also lacks the shield capacity of the bug. And to give up the little other wiggle room you have via Sci console slots, makes thinking boosting shield cap pretty much a no go.
So where does that leave us? It's a better ship than pretty much all other fed escorts, maybe the steam runner or mvae while separated will give it a go. But, the cloak alone gives the Defiant a bit of a X factor.
The ship has the bite, we all know this. 5 tac consoles and the ability to use 4 dual heavy cannons, or slot 2 dual beam banks for a decloaking DEM doff double beam overload strike. Yet, the bop will always be a better spike killer, due to the ever valuable universal boff stations it carries to throw in some Sci CC like PSW or VM.
So again.... The defiant just doesn't seem to fill any escort roll at its best. Yet, I find myself every month or so getting back in my favorite ship, to see what she can do. I am never disappointed. I just die quicker, and I am less versatile than all those bugs out there. Which I don't mind, usually I can make up the difference with my piloting experience, or situational awareness. Speccing into stealth actually has me creeping up to science ships within 3 clicks without being seen.... That ain't too shabby.
So, I guess what I'm getting at, is.... You experienced fedscort pilots out there that have a bug ship, don't forget about the old defiant. She looks good, has the spike, and with 2 copies of epts and omegas packed, she has the defense of any average escort. Push yourselves. With just about every QQ'r out there that doesn't have a bug ship raging in zone chat that the ship is the only reason you pwned them.....
Be the Sisko
Have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
Post edited by thishorizon on
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Comments
FWIW, you need to get on vent one of these days to see some of the interesting happenings
Girlfriend's playing that. Think she's up to level 70 or something.
your never going to out do a bug 4 DHC to 4 DHC, staying out of its DHC arc, peppering it with maxed glider crf turret hits, and then some cannon and torp/beam spike when you get the opportunity will kill them, like anything else. course if you can kill them like that, you would just be that much more deadly if you had one too.
bugs tend to make a mockery of every match they are in, they operate on another level, everything is in slow motion compared to them
It would be nice if the entire PvP community just agreed to keep JHAS out of the queues/matches. Wishful thinking though, as that will never happen, some players like having near invincibility in 1v1 coupled with overwelming turn rate and firepower.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
[Zone#X] RandomQQer@Tears-R-Us: You only beat me cause you're flying that Bug!!!!
Quick trip for a ship change.
[Zone#X] GotSkill@Not-a-Nub: How did you like dying to my Defiant?
[Zone#X] Lurker@PvPGroupie: Haha, he went Sisko on that guy's....
[Zone#X] RandomQQer@Tears-R-Us: <insert random excuse>
This game is still 80% pilot.
I poo on bug ships everyday. Sure, it makes the sub par player competitive, but only to a certain extent. Your average pugger still does not take many things in to account.
A veteran player in a cloaked defiant when the teams are evenly mixed will still perform just as well as his vet counterpart in the bug ship. The defiant pilot should use his cloak as his #1 ability, watching the cool down cycles of a few targets and picking a spike opportunity. As the bug ship will tank through lots of damage, the defiant has a much smaller window of opportunity for a kill. But he gets to stay invisable until that window presents itself.
It's a different style, but still noteworthy in my opinion.
Now take the top escort pilots in the game and give them a bug.... Most all of them already do...... And you turn a preexisting monster into a juggernaut. That is what has garnered the ship so much attention.
Edit: and yes virus.... You nailed it.
Also, yes, macros, keybinds, and how and when you press your buttons I do consider piloting. I do not see the top escort pilots out there spamming space bar. Matter of fact, I know they don't. Because I know most of them, if not all of them. And have spoke with them on team speak about such things. I see binding fire weapons to distribute shields to epts to a key as part or his or her piloting style.
The way you build your ship is through the gear and boff choices you make. Piloting is what you do with them, and how, and when.
Have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
the skill part has to do with how you position yourself, how well you speed tank, how much you can preceve by what you see happening. if you can see your enemy and how he cycles abilities, you will know when to strike and when to fly defensively so he waists his attack.
i use 4 'execute entire row' macros, 1 for 100% up time ability cycling and distribution, one for fireing off most tac buffs, one for just TT (and FBP if i have it), and one for panic shield and hull heals. i also have a my help thread spamming bind, a target calling bind and separate energy and torp fireing keys too. a well set up set of controls can transform your fighting ability, you will never be killed by ui lag, you can setup your alpha the instant you have a window, and you can do several things at once, rotating the camera with the mouse and selecting targets wile powering up tac buffs, or sending all your heals to someone as quick as is possible. you are horribly gimped without macros, i don't know how anyone could dogfight well frantically clicking away at the lagy ui, when often you only have split second openings.
luckily there is 0 hurdles for using them and setting them up, i use a simple GUI program that generated all mine, exactly how i want them. if setting them up seems confusing or intimidating, check that program out, you can find it in my thread. binding everything to spacebar sucks btw, it lags your actual firing.
There are times in the past when i used to fly my defiant like sisko from ds9, i get right on top of the enemy, blow them to bits, and fly right threw them as they blew up, but no so much anymore, i am mostly focused on ground atm but my space girl is waiting for me to fly her again
But....
I do not have 1 piece of new stf gear.
I do not have 1 reputation bonus.
Yet....
I still perform as I always did. Still get rage PMs, and still get targeted primarily because people see "Damian" below a Sad Panda fleet tag.
I am proud to be mentioned in the same sentence with many of the best escort pilots out there. It has happened several times just this week. This is not my vanity at all, I am proud of the way I play the game. I always help out others, and do the best I can to use what I have learned to influence others.
And...... I just love the defiant.
i did notice a lack of damian around lattly! if you can deliver the right amount of damage at the right time, nothing will save you, not your macros, not your gear, not your bug. maybe skill should be a bit higher.
i guess at least for me thats a pretty accurate group of percentages, i don't have purple mkxii anything, but i have all rep and items and equipment i could need, access to everything but lockbox ships, and killer macros. it all makes me look pretty good, and i win at least 90% of my fights, but theres still folks out there that can blow me away skill wise.
the defiant? i never really cared for it, i never like mary sues, and thats exactly what the defiant was in DS9. in game though, im loving the fleet MVAM, in terms of stats and setup, id take it over a defiant any day, regardless of how i feel about ether ship. the beta section is amazing, this must be what a bug feels like. and the other 2 sections are as maneuverable or more maneuverable then the defiant.
They're not paying attention to what buffs they have up, what buffs they have available, what buffs are on CD...they haven't paid attention to the buffs the person they're fighting has up, what buffs they likely have available, and what buffs are most likely on CD. In a similar fashion they don't pay attention to debuffs.
They're not thinking about the weapons the other person is using - how that might affect what they need to do themselves. They're not really paying attention to their own weapons and what effect or lack of effect they're having on the person they're fighting.
They're so often concerned about trying to maintain their arcs, they give no consideration to trying to stay out of the other person's arcs. They don't realize that a faster turning ship is going to be able to keep a tighter turning radius as they try to come about. They don't even consider that the other person is watching what they're doing - cause they're not watching what the other person is doing - as they tend to fly the same way instead of trying to mix it up. They just don't realize that often they set up the other person's kill because of the way they kept maneuvering.
When something pops them out of the blue or catches them by surprise, they're not looking at their combat logs to see just what it was. If there's something that just happened, that they don't remember seeing any debuffs - they don't describe what happened leading up to that to somebody else that might have an idea of what it was and what could be done to get out of it.
Sometimes they'll be trying to fly a build that's highly recommended and finding that it just goes nowhere - since that build is working for others and they're doing what they've been told - obviously the person they were fighting was using something OP, something P2W, or omg - they were HAX! They don't even consider for a moment that the particular build may just not suit their personality - it may not be playing to the strengths of their abilities, skills, knowledge, etc, etc, etc. They may be in a good ship, but it may not be a good ship for them.
They won't notice certain nuances of the GUI lag that can take place - that if they notice something is about to happen - sometimes they have to anticipate that and act before it happens - so that whatever they're trying to do will actually happen in time.
The list kind of goes on and on and on and on...
...it's much easier just to see a ship, to see a name, to see a fleet name...
...than it is to look at the vast wealth of information available to them during that time leading up to their death - including the information they can review after their death - as well as the questions they can ask if they're not sure about some of it.
Just much easier to say...it was a Bug.
I think the days when this was true about STO pvp are over.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
as i said before, i trust drunk's percentages.... its a shame it has come to this tho.
also as i said before...
i dont have any new stf gear, fleet gear or rep bonuses. i still out damage and out kill all but a select few in the game as far as escort pilots go.... in a bug i find it easy to do that.... in a defiant i find it challenging to outperform the bug or mobius. but in lies the challenge!
so, there are people out there that can do it. and as virus pointed out so elequently in his above post, most people just do not pay attention.
The bug ship is idiot proof I think that is why it gets so much attention but surely that argument is for one of the 102,304,567 "the bug ship is op" threads already active on here
All I ask is where do you defiant flying fedside boys hang out I play kdf predominantly but mostly down to the fact Feds can't pug period! I'm not looking for people who want to premade I subnuc you you subnuc me just some fun in my defiant!
Do you even Science Bro?
hey kai......
yeah.....
i ran...
epts1...
dem1, with dem doff...
ph1, he2
tt1x2, bo2,bo3, hy2, hy1,
delta2, omega3
2 dbb's, quantum, and a tcd
2 tcd mines and a turret.
it was fun....
but not as effective as...
epts1, rsp1
ph1, he2
tt1x2, hy1, hy2
crf2x2, delta1, omega3
3 dhc, 1 quant
3 turrets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWfbGGZE07M
Try EPTS 2... and EPTE 1 with 2 dmg control doffs....
With the AP doffs for the 50% omega up time you can fly around like a bat out a hell.
on it bro.
with that i was rocking...actually...with the AP doffs and 2 dmg ctrl doffs
the engineering doffs that give a boost with batteries...the exocomp or.... or another one i picked up.... cant remember...it only adds to base damage...but gives a nice lil boost to torps hitting hull!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glEiPXAYE-U
Warp Sauce
Veni Vidi Vici
Confucius says "A Panda is most dangerous when Sad".
for my next build imma have to.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1plPyJdXKIY
if i can run my gal-x with them and kick TRIBBLE then you can too! :P
Do you even Science Bro?
Sigh, I remember people buying accounts to get the gal x. What a dud. See, not all p2w ships are OP. Look at the x lol.
Veni Vidi Vici
Confucius says "A Panda is most dangerous when Sad".
DHC, DBB, EPBA, Romulan torp
2 turrets, KCB
Tac: Plasma consoles
Eng: 2 Crit consoles, cloaking device
Sci: 2 plasma PI consoles
Skills:
APO3, BO3, BO2, TT1
CRF2,CRF1, THY1
THY1
EPtS1, DEM1
HE1, TSS2
Doffs:
2 Damage Ctrl Engies
2 TT Conns
1 DEM doff
Your spike comes from stacking up BO3, then BO2, then as the BO3 is about to expire, hit DEM1, fire off all weapons, then buff BO3 again for the DBB to fire while adding the Hyperplasma blast for the romulan BA before 8s is up. This will launch a heavy torp, 3 BOs in rapid succession, and whatever cannon fire available, with minimal weapon drain.
Properly tac-buffed, it gives one hell of spike that takes down a cube's shield facing and 1/3 of HP on a bad day. I can demolish players without endgame shields with this method too. However, its all about getting your BOs to line up, which might not be easy while under fire as an escort.
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