Except that battlecloaks aren't really a game breaker. They're not anything along the lines of an I-Win button. They're situational, and it's really easy (at least in a BoP) to get your TRIBBLE blown up when using a battlecloak. The only time I've been able to cloak in active battle without risking destruction is if I'm either fighting Federation Kirks flying cruisers that aren't built properly (and therefore aren't doing much damage), or if I'm in a fight where all enemies are distracted and not focusing on me.
I didn't say they were gamebreaking, I meant that putting them on EVERYTHING is poor planning, unbalances the game which has never stopped Cryptic from releasing patches like that in the past.
Battlecloaks can be a liability if not used right, but I see no downside (except unbalanced gameplay and poor planning) to having one on a D'deridex, even worse if it's an enhanced BC.
Romulans are the masters of cloaking technology, unlike the Klingons who merely stole it and the Federation who agrees to ridiculous treaties against it because hey, these are the same people who think electing cows and lizards as president is an intelligent thing to do.
Where was I? Oh yes, battle cloaks for Romulan dreadnoughts or GTFO.
Romulans are the masters of cloaking technology, unlike the Klingons who merely stole it and the Federation who agrees to ridiculous treaties against it because hey, these are the same people who think electing cows and lizards as president is an intelligent thing to do.
Where was I? Oh yes, battle cloaks for Romulan dreadnoughts or GTFO.
Stole it ?
You need to do more homework, those green guys had a technology that they couldn't make work without powerful starships they didn't have, so the Klingon empire was glad to trade some ships for the tech.
I didn't say they were gamebreaking, I meant that putting them on EVERYTHING is poor planning, unbalances the game which has never stopped Cryptic from releasing patches like that in the past.
Battlecloaks can be a liability if not used right, but I see no downside (except unbalanced gameplay and poor planning) to having one on a D'deridex, even worse if it's an enhanced BC.
Yes, I see your point. Which is why I would ultimately oppose putting one on the D'Deridex anyhow. It might not necessarily be able to make the most use of it due to overall slowness, but it wouldn't suffer from the same vulnerability issue that BoPs suffer from. . .i.e., the low hull.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
You need to do more homework, those green guys had a technology that they couldn't make work without powerful starships they didn't have, so the Klingon empire was glad to trade some ships for the tech.
<edit> we 'gave' them transporters as well
Indeed. On top of that, the Klingon Empire has continued to make its own advancements to the cloak. They may not be quite as good as Romulan cloaks, but they're still good.
Just because all we saw of Klingons in the series was the warrior society, doesn't mean there's no strong science contingent. How could an Empire retain its strength without advances in technology, after all?
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Bah! The Klingons obtained cloaking technology in an alliance made under false pretenses which they ultimately betrayed. Which isn't surprising, since the Klingons have betrayed every ally they've ever had, including the Federation on multiple occasions because hey, gullibility is a trait all enlightened humans should have!
Only the glorious intellect of the Romulan people can truly make cloaking technology shine.
....
No the Remans don't count, they probably stole that from superior Romulan science too!
Just because all we saw of Klingons in the series was the warrior society, doesn't mean there's no strong science contingent. How could an Empire retain its strength without advances in technology, after all?
Bah! The Klingons obtained cloaking technology in an alliance made under false pretenses which they ultimately betrayed. Which isn't surprising, since the Klingons have betrayed every ally they've ever had, including the Federation on multiple occasions because hey, gullibility is a trait all enlightened humans should have!
Only the glorious intellect of the Romulan people can truly make cloaking technology shine.
....
No the Remans don't count, they probably stole that from superior Romulan science too!
Because the plot says so.
The alliance was made; Agreements were made. The Klingons wanted the technology. On the other hand, the Romulans were in need of ships. So for instance, the Klingons traded D7 cruisers, which were the backbone of the fleet, and got in return cloaking technology.
Keep in mind, both were bitter rivals with the Federation, both have had conflicts with said Federation also.
So, both factions got what they wanted. The Klingons got the better deal, but the Romulans needed warships NOW, which they got. If the Romulans had the capacity to fulfill their own ship needs, this deal and alliance would never have been needed. But obviously, they needed something badly enough to trade such a powerful technology off.
Well it says "unleash the new and devastating powers of the Singularity Core." on the page so clearly Romulans will be getting some unique abilities. The SC could make cloaked ships extremely hard to detect/uncover by Feds and Klingons.
Or it could make firing a large plasma torp coming out of cloak a big deal. Plasma torps are a joke atm.
TOS had the dedication plate saying Starship class, its hard to read but its what it says.
Then we have Wrath of Khan were the simulator door says "Mark IV simulator Enterprise Class".
I am just putting this here as a example of how the Valdore class does have some credit, expecially because of this:
John Eaves that designed it did call it "Romulan Warbird Valdore", Andrew Prober that designed the Enterprise refit mentioned that the design for the refit was originally designated "Enterprise-class", and that name was used behind the scenes, later "The Undiscovered Country" had blueprints on screen that are labeled "Constitution-class starship" and so establishing the name of the class.
See? things can be more complicated when one might thought.
I know that was the original intent.
It was based on the concept that the Enterprise was the first ship to be refitted.
However even then it would not be really that specific since it's based on a naval tradition that there is a main class with certain subclasses, like the British "Town class", which has the "Southampton", "Gloucester" and "Edinburgh" subclasses.
Also, "Romulan Warbird Valdore" is about as conclusive as "Starship Reliant", which does not automatically mean "Reliant class" either.;)
Actually no, it was one of the very few episodes ever that featured Phasers in this mode.
The episode itself never mentions torpedoes.
In fact they say "Phaser weapons energized, set for proximity blast":)
Romulans are the masters of cloaking technology, unlike the Klingons who merely stole it and the Federation who agrees to ridiculous treaties against it because hey, these are the same people who think electing cows and lizards as president is an intelligent thing to do.
Where was I? Oh yes, battle cloaks for Romulan dreadnoughts or GTFO.
Bah! The Klingons obtained cloaking technology in an alliance made under false pretenses which they ultimately betrayed. Which isn't surprising, since the Klingons have betrayed every ally they've ever had, including the Federation on multiple occasions because hey, gullibility is a trait all enlightened humans should have!
Only the glorious intellect of the Romulan people can truly make cloaking technology shine.
....
No the Remans don't count, they probably stole that from superior Romulan science too!
Because the plot says so.
*facepalm* Wow, you really know your Trek lore, don't you? :rolleyes:
*facepalm* Wow, you really know your Trek lore, don't you? :rolleyes:
I think he's RPing as one of those revisionist historians.
Or he's gonna try and convince us the Klingons aggressively threw their Narendra III and Khitomer outposts into the path of completely innocent Romulan disruptor discharges as an act of betrayal
I think he's RPing as one of those revisionist historians.
Or he's gonna try and convince us the Klingons aggressively threw their Narendra III and Khitomer outposts into the path of completely innocent Romulan disruptor discharges as an act of betrayal
Well....you know how agressive our outposts can get. :D
Anyway, I was more considering the reference to Saurians as "cows & lizards". :eek:
I think they will Nerf that ability as they will the "Scimitars" weapons System. I mean Come on 27 Torpedo tubes a Predator like that in a game of sheep.
Well....you know how agressive our outposts can get. :D
Those attacks happened long after Klingon/Romulan relations soured.
Moreover, Khitomer happened due to Klingon collaborators. As Valeris said, they conspire against their own people. How trustworthy can they be?
Anyway, I was more considering the reference to Saurians as "cows & lizards". :eek:
The Saurians are the lizards, the Grazerites would be the cows.
Neither are beings I would trust to put in charge of an interstellar alliance.
Those attacks happened long after Klingon/Romulan relations soured.
Moreover, Khitomer happened due to Klingon collaborators. As Valeris said, they conspire against their own people. How trustworthy can they be?
And how does that make them different from, let's say, the Romulans?
Didn't they conspire against their own people with the Remans and put a human clone of Picard as a Preator of the Romulan Star Empire?
And how does that make them different from, let's say, the Romulans?
Didn't they conspire against their own people with the Remans and put a human clone of Picard as a Preator of the Romulan Star Empire?
Internally, sure. But they didn't conspire together with the Federation, or the Klingons.
The Klingons on the other hand have conspired with outsiders to undermine their own multiple times.
Why? On what do you base this disbelief in them?
That Grazerites are quite literally cows, right down to their name and that Saurians are utterly goofy.
Internally, sure. But they didn't conspire together with the Federation, or the Klingons.
The Klingons on the other hand have conspired with outsiders to undermine their own multiple times.
Well, they do work in a completely different political systems after all and originate from very different societies. The Romulans have their senate and the Klingons their Great Houses.
BTW, I'd call the Remans "outsiders" as well as Shinzon. The Remans were never treated as part of the Star Empire pre Nemesis for what we know, but as mere miner slaves. And they threw Shinzon to die in the dilithium mines of Remus when they no longer needed him. Shinzon and the Remans in Nemesis clearly despise and hate the Romulans, so I actually would call that working with outsiders against you own kind.
Those attacks happened long after Klingon/Romulan relations soured.
Moreover, Khitomer happened due to Klingon collaborators. As Valeris said, they conspire against their own people. How trustworthy can they be?
Those attacks happened long after Klingon/Romulan relations soured.
Moreover, Khitomer happened due to Klingon collaborators. As Valeris said, they conspire against their own people. How trustworthy can they be?
Worf said the Romulans attacked Khitomer when they were still allies.
So this is you not getting your facts right.
For smaller ships i think the Battle cloak would be sufficient.
But for bigger ships like the Dederidex or similar ships i hope they don't have to rely on battlecloaking in Battle. I hope they will be full fledged Battleships, unlike Federation Cruisers, which can't mount the biggest guns and can't move plain said.
As i said previously, personally i hope the Romulan fleet won't be dominated by small annoying Escorts like Starfleet of the Klingon fleet. I think it would be a welcome change if the Romulans would have their Battleships more like huge escorts, similar to the Ferengi D'Koras BOFF & Console Layout for example.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
For smaller ships i think the Battle cloak would be sufficient.
But for bigger ships like the Dederidex or similar ships i hope they don't have to rely on battlecloaking in Battle. I hope they will be full fledged Battleships, unlike Federation Cruisers, which can't mount the biggest guns and can't move plain said.
As i said previously, personally i hope the Romulan fleet won't be dominated by small annoying Escorts like Starfleet of the Klingon fleet. I think it would be a welcome change if the Romulans would have their Battleships more like huge escorts, similar to the Ferengi D'Koras BOFF & Console Layout for example.
I have to agree here, at least partially. (in the show) D'Deridexes seemed to fight like a heavy cruiser with a cloaking device.
I could see Mogais as being a battlecruiser, but not a full-blown escort. EBC? maybe.
Now, Romulans DO use BoPs, but a science focused BoP seems more Romulan than a clone of the KDF BoP. Maybe a version of battle cloak that lets you use sci powers while staying cloaked?
In 1966, Balance of Terror certainly made it clear that the Romulan Bird of Prey suggested something akin to battlecloak. Although these 23rd century BoP struggled to keep that up for long. Clearly, by the 24th and 25th centuries that technology has become much better defined.
As STO is 30 years past events in Nemesis, it would be logical to extend the technology of the Reman Scimitar to the larger Romulan starships. Maybe they will or maybe those Romulan ships won't maneuver as agilely as Shinzon's Scimitar.
The two ships under Donatra's command indeed de-cloaked to join the Battle of Basson Rift. So Mogai's should have cloaking ability. Maybe Donatra never used Battlecloak because she liked her specific strategy better? Regardless she did fall for Shinzon faking his crippled cloak.
Frankly, as the Romulans originated and continued to build upon cloaking technology, that STO faction should have that specific tactical advantage over all others. All of their starships would likely sport battlecloak.
IMO, since Scimitar did fire while cloaked, that suggests that larger vessels can do that, too.
Of course, that begs the question of how to better define both the KDF and Fed tactical advantages for whatever game balance is necessary. I don't claim to know what that balance should be? While I don't doubt Klingon science and engineering skill, I do doubt larger KDF starship's can perform as well as Romulan's. But that would make for a fun breakthrough (fire while cloaked larger vessels) along the KDF story arc. Especially, given that Reman's can serve as BO's in the KDF.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Don't look so smug. I know what you're thinking, but Romulus was merely a setback. Did you really think we'd trust the future of the galaxy to Starfleet peaceniks and Klingon mongrels?
Seriously though, what can I say? Iconians are jerks. At least Romulus was the victim of an external attack, unlike Qo'nos which was nearly destroyed by Klingon stupidity, and then saved by the Federation, who's charity and good faith was repaid by the Klingons knifing them in the back. Twice.
since romulans are supposed to be the king of cloaking, i would hope and imagine that all romulan ships will have some sort of cloak that is slightly better than the klink cloak..
but since that would make sense, and cryptic like to make things not make sense, who knows what will happen lol..
(but to answer the question) at the very least, all of their ships should have battle cloaks..
Comments
I didn't say they were gamebreaking, I meant that putting them on EVERYTHING is poor planning, unbalances the game which has never stopped Cryptic from releasing patches like that in the past.
Battlecloaks can be a liability if not used right, but I see no downside (except unbalanced gameplay and poor planning) to having one on a D'deridex, even worse if it's an enhanced BC.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Where was I? Oh yes, battle cloaks for Romulan dreadnoughts or GTFO.
Stole it ?
You need to do more homework, those green guys had a technology that they couldn't make work without powerful starships they didn't have, so the Klingon empire was glad to trade some ships for the tech.
<edit> we 'gave' them transporters as well
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Yes, I see your point. Which is why I would ultimately oppose putting one on the D'Deridex anyhow. It might not necessarily be able to make the most use of it due to overall slowness, but it wouldn't suffer from the same vulnerability issue that BoPs suffer from. . .i.e., the low hull.
Indeed. On top of that, the Klingon Empire has continued to make its own advancements to the cloak. They may not be quite as good as Romulan cloaks, but they're still good.
Just because all we saw of Klingons in the series was the warrior society, doesn't mean there's no strong science contingent. How could an Empire retain its strength without advances in technology, after all?
Only the glorious intellect of the Romulan people can truly make cloaking technology shine.
....
No the Remans don't count, they probably stole that from superior Romulan science too!
Because the plot says so.
Klingons can just consider it their "Faction Uniqueness" like they have been declaring their BCs represent all this time when Feds wanted one.
The alliance was made; Agreements were made. The Klingons wanted the technology. On the other hand, the Romulans were in need of ships. So for instance, the Klingons traded D7 cruisers, which were the backbone of the fleet, and got in return cloaking technology.
Keep in mind, both were bitter rivals with the Federation, both have had conflicts with said Federation also.
So, both factions got what they wanted. The Klingons got the better deal, but the Romulans needed warships NOW, which they got. If the Romulans had the capacity to fulfill their own ship needs, this deal and alliance would never have been needed. But obviously, they needed something badly enough to trade such a powerful technology off.
Or it could make firing a large plasma torp coming out of cloak a big deal. Plasma torps are a joke atm.
That was a proximity torpedo spread.
I know that was the original intent.
It was based on the concept that the Enterprise was the first ship to be refitted.
However even then it would not be really that specific since it's based on a naval tradition that there is a main class with certain subclasses, like the British "Town class", which has the "Southampton", "Gloucester" and "Edinburgh" subclasses.
Also, "Romulan Warbird Valdore" is about as conclusive as "Starship Reliant", which does not automatically mean "Reliant class" either.;)
Actually no, it was one of the very few episodes ever that featured Phasers in this mode.
The episode itself never mentions torpedoes.
In fact they say "Phaser weapons energized, set for proximity blast":)
*facepalm* Wow, you really know your Trek lore, don't you? :rolleyes:
I think he's RPing as one of those revisionist historians.
Or he's gonna try and convince us the Klingons aggressively threw their Narendra III and Khitomer outposts into the path of completely innocent Romulan disruptor discharges as an act of betrayal
Well....you know how agressive our outposts can get.
Anyway, I was more considering the reference to Saurians as "cows & lizards". :eek:
I think they will Nerf that ability as they will the "Scimitars" weapons System. I mean Come on 27 Torpedo tubes a Predator like that in a game of sheep.
Those attacks happened long after Klingon/Romulan relations soured.
Moreover, Khitomer happened due to Klingon collaborators. As Valeris said, they conspire against their own people. How trustworthy can they be?
The Saurians are the lizards, the Grazerites would be the cows.
Neither are beings I would trust to put in charge of an interstellar alliance.
And how does that make them different from, let's say, the Romulans?
Didn't they conspire against their own people with the Remans and put a human clone of Picard as a Preator of the Romulan Star Empire?
Why? On what do you base this disbelief in them?
Internally, sure. But they didn't conspire together with the Federation, or the Klingons.
The Klingons on the other hand have conspired with outsiders to undermine their own multiple times.
That Grazerites are quite literally cows, right down to their name and that Saurians are utterly goofy.
Well, they do work in a completely different political systems after all and originate from very different societies. The Romulans have their senate and the Klingons their Great Houses.
BTW, I'd call the Remans "outsiders" as well as Shinzon. The Remans were never treated as part of the Star Empire pre Nemesis for what we know, but as mere miner slaves. And they threw Shinzon to die in the dilithium mines of Remus when they no longer needed him. Shinzon and the Remans in Nemesis clearly despise and hate the Romulans, so I actually would call that working with outsiders against you own kind.
Goofy maybe, but they make one hell of a brandy! :P:D
P.S. Sorry for derailing the thread, I will stop now.
Say, how is that homeplanet of yours doing?
Worf said the Romulans attacked Khitomer when they were still allies.
So this is you not getting your facts right.
But for bigger ships like the Dederidex or similar ships i hope they don't have to rely on battlecloaking in Battle. I hope they will be full fledged Battleships, unlike Federation Cruisers, which can't mount the biggest guns and can't move plain said.
As i said previously, personally i hope the Romulan fleet won't be dominated by small annoying Escorts like Starfleet of the Klingon fleet. I think it would be a welcome change if the Romulans would have their Battleships more like huge escorts, similar to the Ferengi D'Koras BOFF & Console Layout for example.
I could see Mogais as being a battlecruiser, but not a full-blown escort. EBC? maybe.
Now, Romulans DO use BoPs, but a science focused BoP seems more Romulan than a clone of the KDF BoP. Maybe a version of battle cloak that lets you use sci powers while staying cloaked?
My character Tsin'xing
As STO is 30 years past events in Nemesis, it would be logical to extend the technology of the Reman Scimitar to the larger Romulan starships. Maybe they will or maybe those Romulan ships won't maneuver as agilely as Shinzon's Scimitar.
The two ships under Donatra's command indeed de-cloaked to join the Battle of Basson Rift. So Mogai's should have cloaking ability. Maybe Donatra never used Battlecloak because she liked her specific strategy better? Regardless she did fall for Shinzon faking his crippled cloak.
Frankly, as the Romulans originated and continued to build upon cloaking technology, that STO faction should have that specific tactical advantage over all others. All of their starships would likely sport battlecloak.
IMO, since Scimitar did fire while cloaked, that suggests that larger vessels can do that, too.
Of course, that begs the question of how to better define both the KDF and Fed tactical advantages for whatever game balance is necessary. I don't claim to know what that balance should be? While I don't doubt Klingon science and engineering skill, I do doubt larger KDF starship's can perform as well as Romulan's. But that would make for a fun breakthrough (fire while cloaked larger vessels) along the KDF story arc. Especially, given that Reman's can serve as BO's in the KDF.
So you're saying that the Klingons and Romulans were still allies 2 years after Narendra was attacked.
...
Whut?
Don't look so smug. I know what you're thinking, but Romulus was merely a setback. Did you really think we'd trust the future of the galaxy to Starfleet peaceniks and Klingon mongrels?
Seriously though, what can I say? Iconians are jerks. At least Romulus was the victim of an external attack, unlike Qo'nos which was nearly destroyed by Klingon stupidity, and then saved by the Federation, who's charity and good faith was repaid by the Klingons knifing them in the back. Twice.
but since that would make sense, and cryptic like to make things not make sense, who knows what will happen lol..
(but to answer the question) at the very least, all of their ships should have battle cloaks..
Sayit with me now... "racism", lol
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight