I keep seeing Bridge Commander being idolized, are we actually comparing STO with this or this or this? And STO is being called inferior? I like the LCARS ui but the ship models I'm seeing don't strike me as being that great, hopefully it's only because of lower graphics settings.
But once again it is a single player game, even with the settings maxed out you aren't going to see a lot of ships at one time and it would do no good to have super detailed ships only to have the engine bog down when there are too many of them on screen at the same time.
I guess a lot of this is a matter of opinion, I do not play the game with the ship zoomed in so that it fills the screen, since the game lacks a useful radar I prefer the situational awareness afforded by having the ship minimized enough that I can see what's going on around me.
It would be nice if there was a higher resolution and greater detail when ships are viewed up close but I won't agree that the current system is that inferior that it detracts from immersion and game play and a lot depends on your own expectations, fault can be found with even the studio models if you intend to be too particular.
No, we're comparing STO with: U.S.S. Excelsior, NX-2000 (More here: 1)
Battle-damaged U.S.S. Venture (note the nacelle phaser strips)
As you can see, these ships are far superior to the ships ingame at highest resolution.
As for playing in PVE or PVP scenarios, when graphics becomes an issue, I'm with you on that one. The game engine should have a tickbox that allows "Switch to lower quality models in combat" option. This is a problem even right now, where players with lower end computers need to constantly switch from high to low quality models.
I don't play the ship zoomed in during combat either, unless I am moving in sector space or idling in Earth orbit. However, for immersion's sake, the ships should look good at those times when the only focus for the player's eyes is the big ship in the center of the screen.
As for my expectations, I have only picked the most glaring of errors. If I decided to rant on and on about each little issue about each little ship, nothing would be fixed. I'm only focusing on the major issues; ones that don't take a lot of time to fix, and affect immersion into Star Trek Online.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Really, the models in STO can look much more better.
The Community of Bridge Commander have created awesome models that looks much better than the work of the Model Designer where's working at Cryptic.
I know, content is important but the most STO Players have seen the TV Episodes and the Movies, the most Lifetime Subscribers are Star Trek Fans and they wish more and better detailed starships. Can't be so hard right? CptLogan has done great work at the beginning before STO goes F2P but now it seems, that you create simple new models to make fast money with them.
The Topic "Starships: Model errors, issues and feedback" still exists same with the whole reported model failures. The most of them still exists today and aren't fixed.
That's really a shame!
80% of the Game iam flying around with my lovely Sovereign Class and if i fly through the sectors, i move the camera to become incredible pictures of my ship... but there are so many issues and failures that i would really export the Model Files, re-edit them to become a true looking sovereign class, but i can't *grml*
We need them to fix the glaring problems like the Galaxy Dreds lance being offset, the Venture lower saucer windows, and yes the Sovereigns registry should be under the illumination light, that's why the damn thing is there. These problems it seems are at best on very far back burner if they haven't fallen off the radar completely, so I wouldn't hold out hope of them redoing every ship to increase their level of accuracy and detail.
I'll agree that the images stardestroyer posted do look very good, but once again, it's a single player game and those beautiful ships are sitting there by themselves, there aren't dozens of them all flying around at the same time, it would be nearly impossible to hold a multiplayer game to that same standard.
Oh sure they could enhance the graphics, increase detail, but then the forum would be full of posts complaining about overheated video chips, extreme memory usage, or really crappy frame rate. Just recently we had a huge hubbub over what just a bunch of balloons were doing to performance, so I can well imagine how enhanced graphics would play out.
If we inundate the topic with arguments about minutia the more serious problems are going to get ignored so some triage is required, what are the obvious critical flaws that really need to be fixed and what are the minor details that would be nice to have but are good enough that we can live with it.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
True, and it is all about balance. Too high-quality models, and the performance sucks; too low quality ships, and the immersion sucks.
That is, however, why we have video effect settings. There is a lower quality Galaxy-class model available for low-end computers. However, despite all that Cryptic may say, the current high quality Galaxy-class model is not high quality. It needs at least a re-look at the model shape.
Also, for the Fleet Galaxy, the nacelle phaser strips and ship name on the ventral side of the saucer should be added.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Given how long these models have existed with these problems, I seriously doubt that anyone is going to be working on increasing the detail of existing ships. Sure, there may be some GAs with enough self respect that they want to go back in and fix the problems, but all of them have their time earmarked for making new pieces of TRIBBLE to throw into lock boxes or the C-Store, they would literally have to be fixing the ships on their own time. There is simply no money to be made updating the graphics of these old ships since people are buying and using them just as they are.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I agree. The community, like in Star Trek Bridge Commander and other games, should be given the opportunity to improve the look of the existing ships. Cryptic's devs can pick and choose which user made creation they like, and implement that. Zero work for Cryptic, modders gain experience and reputation for their talent, and we get better ships.
The only question is, why hasn't this been done already?
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I agree. The community, like in Star Trek Bridge Commander and other games, should be given the opportunity to improve the look of the existing ships. Cryptic's devs can pick and choose which user made creation they like, and implement that. Zero work for Cryptic, modders gain experience and reputation for their talent, and we get better ships.
The only question is, why hasn't this been done already?
Legalities. Some people would sue, even if the Terms of Service state they won't get paid.
I wish people would stop comparing this to a single player game, it's one thing to add modded files to a single player game for personal use, it quite another to add files to a commercial multiplayer product for public consumption. No mmo that I know of lets users submit modified object files to the game. The primary reasons being the legal aspects of property/intellectual rights, etc. Some people might get it in their heads that they deserve some kind of financial compensation for their submitted designs even after having agreed to do it for free, others for whatever reason might plagiarize the copyrighted material of other entities. Everything included in the game has to meet design specifications for model complexity, file formats, animation mechanics, etc. Additionally CBS vets everything added to the game to maintain the integrity of the franchise and would also have to approve everything submitted by the public as well. So to avoid a major load of legal and technical headaches they simply can't outsource to the public. They could hold competitions for designs as was done for the Odyssey but that's as far as it is ever likely to go.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Yet another thread where an educated and well-informed person brings up a valid complaint that is researched and thorough, and then all the STO fanboys jump in to blindly protect the developers and claim they've done nothing wrong. STO does have mistakes. Trying to attack those who bring them up is not going to make the game any better.
On that note, there are also numerous errors on the texture and window placements of the Nova, Nova Refit, and Nebula class models (that's Science Vessel, Science Vessel Refit, and Adv. Research Vessel for the casual players). The Nebula Class ship should also be firing its torpedoes out of the Mission Pod up top, for both fore and aft launches. It currently only fires out of the pod in the aft direction, while forward the torpedoes shoot out of some vague area near the deflector dish, despite there being no torpedo launchers there.
I have to admit, that is one well-documented observation on the part of the OP. I have noticed the off-center models, but as long as it doesn't interfere with the game-play I am willing to let minor things slide. That being said, getting the models correct would make for a more beautiful game.
Sure we all want better ship models, but the devs cant just sit and make them all day. We can complain, but it will not change the fact that the games biggest update is coming out in about 2 months. That update still needs lots of work (i am assuming), and i would rather have a new faction than a few minor issues on the sovereign fixed. Of course there will be those who say "Well i want ____ not that." but models can wait.
We should eventually get the models we want, i want them too as i am a galaxy flyer. But they can wait a few months! :rolleyes:
Bridge Commander is a very old game from 2002. Yet fans have continuously given this game love with mods expanding the game. Among the mods of course are better ship models.
The video linked above is from 2008, using then-current mods for a then-6 year old PC game. Modern PCs can do a whole lot better now. And it's not like STO has gigantic fleet battles anyways.
Why not have spectacular AND canon-correct in appearance ship models in STO? Why the hell do people around here seem to gladly settle for far less better looking, inaccurate models, especially with canon ships? It amazes me that people settle for mediocrity.
Why NOT have spectacular and correct models for classics such as the Constitutions, Mirandas, Galaxies, Sovereigns, D7 / K'T'Ingas, Vor'Chas?
I've just played the Legacy of Romulus Tribble test version, and taking a look at the ships in the ship purchase screen (on the Romulan Flotilla), they are of very high quality.
I'm hoping that at some point, the attention to detail seen in the Romulan vessels could be reapplied to existing Federation vessels to keep them visually on-par.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Those obvious model errors are a disgrace, especially after so many years. I remember the original Galaxy model they had and it was just flat out wrong. They corrected most of the model after the forum outcry, shame to see that after so many years the ships are still so full of errors.
It's almost as if they modeled these ships of a single zoomed out picture.
As for all the fanboys in this topic going on about how minor this is and how only super Trek nerds can be bothered about it etc.. This is a Star Trek MMO. For the most part focused on the ships. The canon ships should be 100% accurate to the shows/movies or this could just as well be a generic sci-fi game.
I've just played the Legacy of Romulus Tribble test version, and taking a look at the ships in the ship purchase screen (on the Romulan Flotilla), they are of very high quality.
I'm hoping that at some point, the attention to detail seen in the Romulan vessels could be reapplied to existing Federation vessels to keep them visually on-par.
Yet there is already a topic on the accuracy errors of the D'deridex warbird model...
I picked up the Sabre-class today and was surprised to see it still lacks strobes, has window clipping issues, and is covered with those awful red weapon hardpoints. It's kind of silly that we still have ships in such bad shape, and I can't fathom why revisiting these models isn't of higher priority given that we spend more than half of our game time staring at them.
This is more than a quality of life issue.
Please spend some time going over the older ship models. It's sorely needed.
The Nebula Class ship should also be firing its torpedoes out of the Mission Pod up top, for both fore and aft launches. It currently only fires out of the pod in the aft direction, while forward the torpedoes shoot out of some vague area near the deflector dish, despite there being no torpedo launchers there.
The Nebula-class does have a forward torpedo launcher just above its deflector array, you see it firing from there in First Contact.
I've said for years that I'd happily make a new Sovereign/Galaxy & Intrepid for Cryptic but I've never been given the opportunity. I don't even want money or credit for doing it, just let me look at something pretty while I'm flying around the quadrant.
I've worked for years in the video game industry and now I've moved to working on motion pictures as a cg artist. I could do this with my eyes closed. :rolleyes:
I'm not -exactly bothered by small visual inconsistancies, but the larger ones...
Take the fleet dssv for instance - when kitbashing them, you'd expect the main textures, ect to line up, the decal patterns to look right and so on - pretty standard stuff considering you are paying 2000z (or ec equivalent) for a set of ship modules to use it
Unfortunately, no matter the configuration, the material shade on the fleet ship costume is slightly darker than the material used on the standard ship parts - even though they are using the same material! That along with the alignment issues means the only parts you can really change without the ship looking like Frankeinsteins tragedy are the pylons and nacelles as every decal and the ship material itself on the saucer and hull do not match up
A similar issue, but only decal-wise applies to the fleet norgh/ning'tao (off topic..but why is it named a ning'tao but only has the norgh costume as standard unless you buy the ning'tao?)
Granted, its only aesthetic and once I'm blasting away (or dropping grav wells) its barely registers, but parked outside esd while you are opening doff boxes for the daily starbase feed...
I've said for years that I'd happily make a new Sovereign/Galaxy & Intrepid for Cryptic but I've never been given the opportunity. I don't even want money or credit for doing it, just let me look at something pretty while I'm flying around the quadrant.
I've worked for years in the video game industry and now I've moved to working on motion pictures as a cg artist. I could do this with my eyes closed. :rolleyes:
Agreed - the problem is that we are never given the opportunity, despite the lack of time pressure and great resources us players have , compared to the Devs.
I'm not -exactly bothered by small visual inconsistancies, but the larger ones...
Take the fleet dssv for instance - when kitbashing them, you'd expect the main textures, ect to line up, the decal patterns to look right and so on - pretty standard stuff considering you are paying 2000z (or ec equivalent) for a set of ship modules to use it
Unfortunately, no matter the configuration, the material shade on the fleet ship costume is slightly darker than the material used on the standard ship parts - even though they are using the same material! That along with the alignment issues means the only parts you can really change without the ship looking like Frankeinsteins tragedy are the pylons and nacelles as every decal and the ship material itself on the saucer and hull do not match up
A similar issue, but only decal-wise applies to the fleet norgh/ning'tao (off topic..but why is it named a ning'tao but only has the norgh costume as standard unless you buy the ning'tao?)
Granted, its only aesthetic and once I'm blasting away (or dropping grav wells) its barely registers, but parked outside esd while you are opening doff boxes for the daily starbase feed...
Exactly. Some of the parts just don't match up, and create these really out-of-place designs - probably due to a rush job and lack of planning.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Oh. I have this phaser pistol that fires pink instead of orange when I use the secondary setting on my bridge after sitting down and getting up to shoot... it's really bugging me. :rolleyes:
Seriously, these texture issues will be fixed at one time or another. Cryptic has heard you. They have more pressing matters like server issues, Legacy Of Romulus, and etc.
Cryptic has heard me? I haven't heard any acknowledgement from them that they are adding these to their To-Do list.
But yes, Season 8 takes precedence over these issues. I'm hoping they will be addressed at some point in the future, and not a year down the road.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Comments
No, we're comparing STO with:
U.S.S. Excelsior, NX-2000 (More here: 1)
Generic Sovereign-class starship
U.S.S. Challenger, NCC-71099 (More here: 1 2 )
Battle-damaged U.S.S. Venture (note the nacelle phaser strips)
As you can see, these ships are far superior to the ships ingame at highest resolution.
As for playing in PVE or PVP scenarios, when graphics becomes an issue, I'm with you on that one. The game engine should have a tickbox that allows "Switch to lower quality models in combat" option. This is a problem even right now, where players with lower end computers need to constantly switch from high to low quality models.
I don't play the ship zoomed in during combat either, unless I am moving in sector space or idling in Earth orbit. However, for immersion's sake, the ships should look good at those times when the only focus for the player's eyes is the big ship in the center of the screen.
As for my expectations, I have only picked the most glaring of errors. If I decided to rant on and on about each little issue about each little ship, nothing would be fixed. I'm only focusing on the major issues; ones that don't take a lot of time to fix, and affect immersion into Star Trek Online.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The Community of Bridge Commander have created awesome models that looks much better than the work of the Model Designer where's working at Cryptic.
I know, content is important but the most STO Players have seen the TV Episodes and the Movies, the most Lifetime Subscribers are Star Trek Fans and they wish more and better detailed starships. Can't be so hard right? CptLogan has done great work at the beginning before STO goes F2P but now it seems, that you create simple new models to make fast money with them.
The Topic "Starships: Model errors, issues and feedback" still exists same with the whole reported model failures. The most of them still exists today and aren't fixed.
That's really a shame!
80% of the Game iam flying around with my lovely Sovereign Class and if i fly through the sectors, i move the camera to become incredible pictures of my ship... but there are so many issues and failures that i would really export the Model Files, re-edit them to become a true looking sovereign class, but i can't *grml*
I'll agree that the images stardestroyer posted do look very good, but once again, it's a single player game and those beautiful ships are sitting there by themselves, there aren't dozens of them all flying around at the same time, it would be nearly impossible to hold a multiplayer game to that same standard.
Oh sure they could enhance the graphics, increase detail, but then the forum would be full of posts complaining about overheated video chips, extreme memory usage, or really crappy frame rate. Just recently we had a huge hubbub over what just a bunch of balloons were doing to performance, so I can well imagine how enhanced graphics would play out.
If we inundate the topic with arguments about minutia the more serious problems are going to get ignored so some triage is required, what are the obvious critical flaws that really need to be fixed and what are the minor details that would be nice to have but are good enough that we can live with it.
That is, however, why we have video effect settings. There is a lower quality Galaxy-class model available for low-end computers. However, despite all that Cryptic may say, the current high quality Galaxy-class model is not high quality. It needs at least a re-look at the model shape.
Also, for the Fleet Galaxy, the nacelle phaser strips and ship name on the ventral side of the saucer should be added.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The only question is, why hasn't this been done already?
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Legalities. Some people would sue, even if the Terms of Service state they won't get paid.
On that note, there are also numerous errors on the texture and window placements of the Nova, Nova Refit, and Nebula class models (that's Science Vessel, Science Vessel Refit, and Adv. Research Vessel for the casual players). The Nebula Class ship should also be firing its torpedoes out of the Mission Pod up top, for both fore and aft launches. It currently only fires out of the pod in the aft direction, while forward the torpedoes shoot out of some vague area near the deflector dish, despite there being no torpedo launchers there.
We should eventually get the models we want, i want them too as i am a galaxy flyer. But they can wait a few months! :rolleyes:
Tribute vid to the venerable Constitution Class from YT, using Star Trek Bridge Commander with some mods.
Bridge Commander is a very old game from 2002. Yet fans have continuously given this game love with mods expanding the game. Among the mods of course are better ship models.
The video linked above is from 2008, using then-current mods for a then-6 year old PC game. Modern PCs can do a whole lot better now. And it's not like STO has gigantic fleet battles anyways.
Why not have spectacular AND canon-correct in appearance ship models in STO? Why the hell do people around here seem to gladly settle for far less better looking, inaccurate models, especially with canon ships? It amazes me that people settle for mediocrity.
Why NOT have spectacular and correct models for classics such as the Constitutions, Mirandas, Galaxies, Sovereigns, D7 / K'T'Ingas, Vor'Chas?
I'm hoping that at some point, the attention to detail seen in the Romulan vessels could be reapplied to existing Federation vessels to keep them visually on-par.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
It's almost as if they modeled these ships of a single zoomed out picture.
As for all the fanboys in this topic going on about how minor this is and how only super Trek nerds can be bothered about it etc.. This is a Star Trek MMO. For the most part focused on the ships. The canon ships should be 100% accurate to the shows/movies or this could just as well be a generic sci-fi game.
Yet there is already a topic on the accuracy errors of the D'deridex warbird model...
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
This is more than a quality of life issue.
Please spend some time going over the older ship models. It's sorely needed.
The Nebula-class does have a forward torpedo launcher just above its deflector array, you see it firing from there in First Contact.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
I've worked for years in the video game industry and now I've moved to working on motion pictures as a cg artist. I could do this with my eyes closed. :rolleyes:
Take the fleet dssv for instance - when kitbashing them, you'd expect the main textures, ect to line up, the decal patterns to look right and so on - pretty standard stuff considering you are paying 2000z (or ec equivalent) for a set of ship modules to use it
Unfortunately, no matter the configuration, the material shade on the fleet ship costume is slightly darker than the material used on the standard ship parts - even though they are using the same material! That along with the alignment issues means the only parts you can really change without the ship looking like Frankeinsteins tragedy are the pylons and nacelles as every decal and the ship material itself on the saucer and hull do not match up
A similar issue, but only decal-wise applies to the fleet norgh/ning'tao (off topic..but why is it named a ning'tao but only has the norgh costume as standard unless you buy the ning'tao?)
Granted, its only aesthetic and once I'm blasting away (or dropping grav wells) its barely registers, but parked outside esd while you are opening doff boxes for the daily starbase feed...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Agreed - the problem is that we are never given the opportunity, despite the lack of time pressure and great resources us players have , compared to the Devs.
Exactly. Some of the parts just don't match up, and create these really out-of-place designs - probably due to a rush job and lack of planning.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Seriously, these texture issues will be fixed at one time or another. Cryptic has heard you. They have more pressing matters like server issues, Legacy Of Romulus, and etc.
But yes, Season 8 takes precedence over these issues. I'm hoping they will be addressed at some point in the future, and not a year down the road.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!