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Leaver penalty in the most stupid way...
ironmako
Member Posts: 770 Arc User
I'm sure some of you will remember a previous thread of mine which was closed because of flamers (glad the Mods spotted it) Well i have another issue with STF. Same game, different issue.
So this morning, I Quick joined a Conduit Elite STF mission, and when i joined, i noticed that the match was not only already half way through, but the optional was already failed. It was an embarrassing sight, noob fed ships (they really were) flying around a Transformer with the ever continuous swarms of nanite spheres coming out. i tried to battle if out, but then i realised it was me vs all the nanite spheres. The other ships actually tried to pointlessly kill the transformer whilst i was occupied but that didn't work obviously.
I could see that i was going to be in this game for a looooong time, so i decided to quit (like the players before me obviously did) and i get a leaver penalty.
Now rather than rage, i had an idea. Initially, most of you would think this is a really bad idea, but i will explain my reasoning.
I have observed that noobs in STF elites are rife in "The Conduit Elite", but on other STF's like "The Vortex" and "The Hive", the appearance of noobs is minimal. So here is my idea:
Change the gameplay of "The Conduit Elite", so if one Nanite sphere makes its repair connection with a transformer, then the mission is FAILED. No optional, no second chance, just straight failed.
My reasoning behind my idea is this: Noobs are scared of Tac cube onslaughts, so they avoid The Hive mission, They avoid The Vortex, cos you have to have a quick and powerful ships to tackle the cubes, the probes, and Donatra. 10 probes get through, its game over.
The Elite missions on other games in STF seem to be geared towards Elite more than the Conduit is, and i think this is the issue.
So i think the "The Conduit Elite" should be altered to be orientated to get the transformers blown as quickly as possible (or with the 10% rule whichever you prefer), if not, and the nanite spheres get through, then the mission is over. The Normal version of The Conduit, can keep its format, for the Noobs to have something to do.
Some may call it elitist (which is ironic as the subject is about Elite STF's) but there is a reason why there is "normal" and "Elite". It is to allow the veterans a challenging, and equally rewarding match. It is not for noobs to try out their training wheels.
So what do you guys think?
So this morning, I Quick joined a Conduit Elite STF mission, and when i joined, i noticed that the match was not only already half way through, but the optional was already failed. It was an embarrassing sight, noob fed ships (they really were) flying around a Transformer with the ever continuous swarms of nanite spheres coming out. i tried to battle if out, but then i realised it was me vs all the nanite spheres. The other ships actually tried to pointlessly kill the transformer whilst i was occupied but that didn't work obviously.
I could see that i was going to be in this game for a looooong time, so i decided to quit (like the players before me obviously did) and i get a leaver penalty.
Now rather than rage, i had an idea. Initially, most of you would think this is a really bad idea, but i will explain my reasoning.
I have observed that noobs in STF elites are rife in "The Conduit Elite", but on other STF's like "The Vortex" and "The Hive", the appearance of noobs is minimal. So here is my idea:
Change the gameplay of "The Conduit Elite", so if one Nanite sphere makes its repair connection with a transformer, then the mission is FAILED. No optional, no second chance, just straight failed.
My reasoning behind my idea is this: Noobs are scared of Tac cube onslaughts, so they avoid The Hive mission, They avoid The Vortex, cos you have to have a quick and powerful ships to tackle the cubes, the probes, and Donatra. 10 probes get through, its game over.
The Elite missions on other games in STF seem to be geared towards Elite more than the Conduit is, and i think this is the issue.
So i think the "The Conduit Elite" should be altered to be orientated to get the transformers blown as quickly as possible (or with the 10% rule whichever you prefer), if not, and the nanite spheres get through, then the mission is over. The Normal version of The Conduit, can keep its format, for the Noobs to have something to do.
Some may call it elitist (which is ironic as the subject is about Elite STF's) but there is a reason why there is "normal" and "Elite". It is to allow the veterans a challenging, and equally rewarding match. It is not for noobs to try out their training wheels.
So what do you guys think?
Post edited by ironmako on
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KASE has the 10 probes thing, CSE has the Kang that can be destroyed, ISE is left without and thus becomes the cesspit of noobs who have no clue of what they are doing and don't want to learn either.
Make the optional timer a fail timer though, something like after 15 mins the amount of Borg becomes so great that it would be suicide to remain and continue.
+1
on the other hand, the same happened to me.
logged in, wanted to use the last 15 min of bonus rep hour, queued for an quick ISE..
warped in..
optional already failed at first transformer, 4 noob ships flying around the nanite spheres..
i jumped in, saved the day, commented on "no rambo'ing on the right side pls",
and introduced them into the tactics of 10%.
on the right side no problem, everybody was able to understand the written word, we finished.
it has been the longest STF i'Ve ever done, cause of the rainbow boats with 300 DPS and 20 injuries.. but i hope the other 4 people will not do this mistake again.
I personally think it should be your in it help finish the mission or don't BOTHER everyone forgets its a GAME not real life. .
So here is my solution. . . Don't like playing with pugs don't. . . Get your mates or fleet to help. . But i dare you to find someone who won't mess it up either from lack of experience or by mistake. .
Thanks
Pretty good suggestion this one, I simply can't handle pugs any more they're too irritating. join #PublicEliteSTF - you can always get a game within a few minutes.
That being said I actually love OPs idea, I think there should be a way to fail ISE and I think this makes perfect sense tbh. Not that it would ever make any difference to me, when you're not running with pugs and everyone has even half-decent DPS it's so easy anyway.
Frankly, I've noticed the ESTF channel are getting a little lazy. Nobody even needs to worry about the 10% rule on generators anymore, because the team DPS is so high. I could fly on my own, blow up a single generator, release the nanites, the team could join me 10 seconds later and we'd still get the transformer down before the nanites arived - with all the increases to DPS over the last year or so they have become pretty trivial.
I think we need another difficulty level, or (SOME) borg need buffs in ESTFs, but please no more mega-stupidly-massive-crits. Just more hull would do nicely.
Kirk's Protege.
Great idea
The optional objective isn't that important to me TBH, but completing the main objective is. This morning, the nanite spheres were coming quicker than i was killing them, so if i stayed, i would have been there forever in a perpetual loop! Also, i remember once on the Vortex Elite, with Donatra's Scimitar appeared, my other "team mates" were so weak, that i actually watched Donatra's health improving from 60% up to 95%, then i gave up and left that one as well.
I really don't want to sound elitist, cos we were all noobies once upon a time, and its nice for teamwork to occur, especially with strangers you never met(we all love it "when a plan comes together"). But there really must be some sort of fail-safe which is there to say "If the team is too weak, then you get a swift fail, so that you can go back to the PvE queues and quickly join another game rather than waiting an hour after rage-quitting. Also, with the fail system, it will put off the noobs from ever entering Elite STF's like The Conduit.
Additional: I would like to thank all of the posters on this thread so far for your support and ideas! I love a nice positive thread, makes me all gooey inside
That's not why people avoid the hive.
I've avoided it to the point that I didn't even know the cubes upgrade to tac cubes, mostly because of all the visible, semi-visible and invisible one-shot death flying around in normals; if it's so bad there that I can't handily carry a PUG, then I'm sure elite is bad to the point where I'd only even consider trying it with a premade group.
Most of them are so easy they shouldn't be failed ever.
Something like Conduit though can "usually" be finished with a little direction. "Guys, leave the trans, kill the spheres." or,"YO! Spheres HEAL the transformer, kill them FIRST." I just ran two kdfs to max omega this last month or so and have had to do that maybe 4 or 5 times between both of them, not really that bad. Did have one game like the OP though I had to leave so I do know how that one goes as well.
Bottomline, we're the oldtimers here, you've gotta let these guys know what to do. Most will actually try to learn. As to the ones who refuse to and just want to troll you, changing the game around isn't going to get rid of them at all. Probably just the opposite.
I'm sorry, but from my experience of pugging STFs this simply isn't true. I tend to find that the majority of the bad players are unwilling to listen, or simply have chat turned off. It got so bad, and I wasted so much time trying to explain the strategy to people unwilling or unable to listen, that I gave up pugging for good and refuse to run any (except on the tribble server, where everyone knows what they are doing)
I think it should be mandatory to have the team chat window open during STFs, you should not be able to close it. That would solve many of the problems, after all, it is a team event.
Kirk's Protege.
Having chat on wont change anything. The only time i noticed chat to Work is when for example, i am on Vortex Elite, and i am attacking the final gate, both trans are gone, and my four other team mates are keeping themselves busy with spheres. That is, until i point out that there is less than 2 mins left on the option timer, then i suddenly get some help with the final gate.
Or another idea is to turn PvP on in STF's, so we can blast the **** out of any player that isn't toeing the line.... (this is a joke by the way!
All the devs have to do IMO is put a fail-safe in The Conduit Elite, to control the noobies better.
I do have to confess, admitting your true abilities is a hard thing to do. I too tried The Hive Elite a few times, until i realised that i am just not good enough. I get blown up so many times that i rinse all my repair components, so i found myself hitting a big loss. So I too only now stick to "Normal" with The Hive. BoP's dont respond too well to multi-invisitorps of death!
This is only about 1% true. If you're going to enter an elite (or any STF for that matter) it is your responsibility to at least have a vague idea what you are doing, not expect to be given everything on a plate and your free reputation marks.
When I hit 50 I thought I could take on the world, ran about 3 normals and then went for an elite and got a ton of abuse from the other players. I deserved it frankly since I messed up the optional and almost failed the entire mission. So I went and read the wiki and ran with my fleet for a bit to learn the ropes with people who wouldn't get mad. I'm still not the greatest player but I last most elites without dying and contribute my share rather than being a burden on the team with 4 people throwing heals on me left right and centre.
A man after my own heart......
But does it matter? You can get sufficient omega marks through normal or Defera. Should devs really cater to the terrible players who refuse to try to learn because they NEEED elite gear, when they can't even beat the easiest elite missions without someone doing it for them?
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
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While this is true, Hive Elite requires a good team to pull off. If I'm in a bad team, we're all blowing up regularly because someone has aggro'd all the cubes. With a great team, crowd control, staying as a group and careful burst damage - you'll all survive with few casualties. It requires care and teamwork far more than the others!
Kirk's Protege.
I agree with this as the initial topic of the thread - ISE should have an actual, factual fail condition like KASE and CSE. I don't particularly care if it's the same as the optional objective or something different, but it should definitely have a fail condition. HOSE is something else entirely, though... it is its own fail condition.
Yeah, it's not you. HOSE is generally regarded as the hardest of the currently available space ESTFs, and I wouldn't consider setting foot in it without a pre-made group. No one can reliably stand up to multiple Heavy Plasma (invisible) Torpedoes that routinely hit for 90k or more, sometimes through shields!
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
I also think it shows you how badly parts of the STF system are thought out when its by far the easiest elite to do, even with what one would not consider a great team of people yet noobs still manage to TRIBBLE it up so badly. I know its been put out there so many times before but this problem wouldn't really exist unless there was a minimum requirement to progress from normal to elite but that is a different story...
If you don't have at least a basic idea of what needs to be done in an Elite STF you shouldn't be playing in them. This isn't an elitist statement, because there's the normals which have the exact same content, so no one is missing out on something.
All Elite STF's should have a fail condition of some sort in them.
Yesterday I joined a fresh ISE. Some noob blows a generator quickly, someone else gets ganked by the swarm that comes so I tell them "gj" and leave.
I have 4 other alts that could use marks, I pick one and go ISE again. This time I have a wonderful PUG, all 4 generators pop almost simultaneously w/o anyone having to say anything! It was a beautiful thing.
This is acceptable anywhere other than ISE. The optional failure condition ISE is directly related to an increase in difficulty and annoyance, and it's trivial to attain.
Anyone who fails ISE's optional can just be ignorant of the scenario, or ignorant of how to build a ship, which is acceptable so long as they're not arrogantly ignorant and refuse to learn. Someone who repeatedly fails while insisting they're doing it correctly makes me think they're failures in life as well.
Even five cruisers that only deal 2k DPS can get the optional (if they do it correctly) - all you need to do is blow the generators simultaneously and then focus fire on the transformer. They should still be able to nuke the transformer before the nanites arrive.
-1 for the "noob fed ships".. i mean, what does it matter if those were feds or not? i am fed too and 95% of all klingons i encounter (if not more) gets destroyed.
its not like there wouldnt be noob klingons.
I want to agree with this since the optional is pretty easy however...
The bigger issue is noobs in underpowered ships/lacking any awareness of tactics needed -> blowing a generator and allowing nanites to top up the transformer -> not being able to kill nanites and blow transformer before more arrive -> repeat.
If all 5 of you have even half a brain cell and a bit of experience each, you can still have someone kill a generator a little early, wipe out the nanites who have topped up the transformer before the transformer itself and then sail the rest of the elite.
Is it ideal? No. Possible? Yes...
The real problem is people who can't even achieve this.
I'd recommend changing the title of the thread because it reads like a rage post. Let's face it: forum posting is a matter of judging a thread by the title. :eek:
I'd also recommend throwing this idea in the Game-play Feedback forum AND making a ticket.
+1 to that. The title doesn't make it come across as the viable option it is!
Kirk's Protege.
I don't agree with failing the mission for everyone just because a generator gets blown early and the nanites heal the transformer. The optional can still be done at that point. Once the optional is blown, however, anyone should be ALLOWED to leave without penalty.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
And for the people who need it spelled out, yes that was sarcasm.
Here's a counter-proposal. If you're going to enter a pug STF, it's your responsibility to prepare for the occasional problems, not expect to be given an experienced team on a plate. If you ignore this responsibility and bail when it turns out everyone else did the same, you deserve your leaver penalty.
Next time, bring a ship that can solo a few spheres (it's not that hard), and there won't be a problem. Telling your teammates they need to kill the spheres first, instead of ragequitting when they don't know, might also be useful.
The optional is only 15 omega marks. Anyone who quits over that deserves their penalty.
If we were talking about normal STF's then I'd agree, but we're not.
I'd say it's the responsibility of everyone joining an Elite STF to have at least some clue of what to do, and when to do it. If you're not going to bother looking up basic tactics, then quite frankly you shouldn't be queuing up for the elite versions.
If you don't know what to do, then queue up for the normal ones and figure it out. If you want to try and do it in a Miranda, then again queue up for the normal STF's.
If you queue up for an Elite version you owe it to the rest of your team to be in at least a T5 ship and have some clue what to do.