As if re-posting your cherished screenshots were going to somehow strengthen your position...
I don't need a magnifying glass. I don't need to zoom in. It's obvious from a distance!
No, what you obviously need is a sense of perspective.
And it should never have happened, if the model artists were doing their job in replicating the looks of the ships from the series this game is based off of.
Then why don't you fire off your resume to them for the Art Dept's QA position? I'm sure they'd be thrilled.
As if re-posting your cherished screenshots were going to somehow strengthen your position...
Well, some people seem to just read one post ahead of theirs, and make a comment without taking a look at the pictures I posted in the first post.
No, what you obviously need is a sense of perspective.
A sense of perspective? Please elaborate.
Then why don't you fire off your resume to them for the Art Dept's QA position? I'm sure they'd be thrilled.
Otherwise, /bug stuff and move on.
And I don't need to apply for a position within Cryptic's art department (and I doubt they're hiring). If you read previous posts of mine within this thread, I already offered a suggestion - let the gaming community have an unpaid shot at modeling the ships. That way, Cryptic doesn't have to pay for the person fixing their models, just supplying ingame rewards.
Also, /bug just reports the bug for some office worker to look at for a split second. I'm pushing for real action, getting the ships in this game fixed at some point in the foreseeable future. If you had read this thread, you wouldn't have to post that last line.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The Galaxy Dreadnaught has the spinal lance, canons and shield module misaligned, the Galaxy celestial skin has windows on the lower saucer misaligned, these are long standing errors on ships that are not free, customers had to pay for them so they should be held to a higher standard than free designs.
I've done more than a bit of ship designs myself for various game mods, I know about geometry budgets and UV mapping, the Celestial windows is a UV mapping error, the Galaxy Dreadnaughts spinal canon is a non zero x axis dislocation for the addon object group, which is what the lance and canons are, overlaid on a standard Galaxy model and is a very easy fix.
It's all well and good to talk about the high degree of tolerance to which designs are held but such talk falls short in the face of visually obvious flaws that go unnoticed and despite dozens of posts describing the problem and hundreds of patches still remains unrepaired.
I know the "starcraft" type of gamer won't care about pretty ship moodels but I am with to OP on the Galaxy models I noticed the errors almost immediately. I don't get why the position of the ships name on the sovereign class is important. The game is 30 years after the films so conventions could have changed. But the Galaxy is not the same ship that you can see on tv every day and is uneven.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
I would agree with you about the Galaxy-class model problems. It is pretty obvious once you first pick up the ship, and turn the camera around.
As to the Sovereign: Naming conventions rarely change in Starfleet - after all, the name and registry are still in the same place on the more-than-140-year-old Miranda class.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Agreed, some of those issues should be fixed for the premium ships they are.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The problem is, the glitches are mounting. They never do get fixed.
The new ships have holes in the floors on the bridge in some cases.
Shoddy workmanship. If you don't get them corrected when they first begin, they((Modelers)) think they can get away with more and more until their making huge glaring mistakes and no ones correcting them.
The models are just as bad as the rest of the game since Season 7. Glitched and incomplete.
The problem is, the glitches are mounting. They never do get fixed.
The new ships have holes in the floors on the bridge in some cases.
Shoddy workmanship. If you don't get them corrected when they first begin, they((Modelers)) think they can get away with more and more until their making huge glaring mistakes and no ones correcting them.
The models are just as bad as the rest of the game since Season 7. Glitched and incomplete.
That's exactly the point. The shoddy jobs are done, and that's okay if they're rushed. But they rarely go back to fix the issues, and we're left with a half-a$$ed job representing some of the most iconic ships in the Trek franchise.
I've gotten to the point where I don't have a desire for newer ships. Sure, more Fleet ships would be nice, but I'm of the opinion that the existing ships should be overhauled and improved even before we go and make newer ones.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
That's exactly what I'm doing with this thread: pushing for the Devs to fix the issues with these ships. It's just a matter of getting enough people who agree, to post here.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The thing is, you aren't pushing the Devs to do anything, a lot of these problems have existed for years now they've even been acknowledged on occasion yet nothing has been done about them, the Galaxy Dread saucer addons misaligned, acknowledged but not fixed, the Celestial windows missing, acknowledged but not fixed, and minor cosmetic differences between game models and studio models, will likely never be fixed.
Why? Maybe because fixing already purchased items aren't going to make them more money so are a low priority especially when they know people are still buying the ships even with known design flaws. That and taking time to fix them would delay them creating some new toy to put in a lockbox or throw into the C-Store to generate more capital. These guys don't get to pick and choose what they want to work on, they have to follow managerial directions and priorities. For the most part they are not in this for the love of Star Trek, they're in it for a paycheck, so their attention is going to be devoted to where the money is.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I can deal with miss aligned textures/hulls, what I cant deal with, now especially with each new ship added, is that weapon hardpoints are garbage on the older ships compared to ones released in the last couple months.
Jump into a sovereign, luna, galaxy, ect loaded with beams in the aft, they will all fire from only one point, on the very aft, cutting through your own nacelles, and beams on the fore fire from 3 very close points along a WIDE phaser array, and alot of ships have a dedicated aft array on the saucer, but is not used.. And dont get me started on the Oddy, firing only from the very tip of the nacelle.
Now jump into a vesta, it will fire aft beams from all along the secondary hull and from the pylons. And the ambassador is beautifully done, it uses the aft saucer arrays, the belly bank, and the pylons.. (my only grip is dual beams dont look right, they should fire from the array, not the edge of the saucer..) And even the bloated Chimera looks gorgeous as a beam boat.
And would it kill you to make beams a tad thinner at the point of fire? Shuttles fire beams thicker than the entire ship itself, and my intrepid looks like its firing beams meant to be mounted on a starbase...
I will always wonder why they added dual beam banks to the front of the connie refit instead of leaving the dbb's it already had.
At the end of the Akira hull sections, the material cuts off instead of continuing it's original arc. Whats worse is that they originally had it right according to Memory Alpha.
All of these TV ships are at least 50 years old, some much older and long past the time they should have been decommissioned, so I guess they could argue that all of these ships are made available using 25th century technology, so some superficial differences are to be expected.
I don't have a problem with the designs, having a beef because some detail is missing here or that don't conform to the studio models is taking nit-picking to the level of being neurotic. My complaints are for the glaringly obvious flaws, textures that are missing or corrupted, components that are placed off center far enough that it is clearly visible, models with open seams that you can see into if you look closely, things like that.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
All of these TV ships are at least 50 years old, some much older and long past the time they should have been decommissioned, so I guess they could argue that all of these ships are made available using 25th century technology, so some superficial differences are to be expected.
In some cases, I agree, that is true. In the event that an older class needed some kind of upgrade (ex. the mini-deflector on the Miranda-class rollbar), I can live with that.
I don't have a problem with the designs... My complaints are for the glaringly obvious flaws, textures that are missing or corrupted, components that are placed off center far enough that it is clearly visible, models with open seams that you can see into if you look closely, things like that.
Seems like people don't really read this stuff...
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Don't know if this has already been said but if it has then it needs to be said again.
The Sovereign doesn't need a fix, it needs an entirely new model, the current one is low poly and frankly hideous from some angles where the window lines jerk around.
I would also say before any new ships, fix the old ones and give use more interior/bridges for the game, in the right size.
Couldn't agree more.
Don't know if this has already been said but if it has then it needs to be said again.
The Sovereign doesn't need a fix, it needs an entirely new model, the current one is low poly and frankly hideous from some angles where the window lines jerk around.
Yeah, there's quite a lot of issues with the Sovereign model in general. I was looking at my 16inch model of the Enterprise-E the other day, and that thing had more accurate details than the ship in this game.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Think it's time, that the Community solves the Model problems.
Always the Community has done much better work instead of the Game Studio, look at Bridge Commander. Whole new Ships much better with great details like in the movies than the default ones.
It's a shame... Cryptic's progress with Content is really slow they should spend 20% of their ressourcen wo enhance the current Models to become more like in the movies :mad:
I think the Klingon Bird of Prey is the worst of the lot, its the most iconic non Federation ship and its impulse engines are horrendous, detailing is off...it needs a revamp.
Same people... making the same excuses for Cryptic's incompetence.... Bridge commander was much better and more effort was put into it. Oh and it didn't sell this rubbish anyway.
These things won't get fixed because there's no money to be made by fixing them.
The best we can hope for is that one of the ship artists gets enough free time (and inclination) to do a fix - much like Borticus is trying to fix PvP balance issues during his coffee breaks.
Cryptic aren't going to outsource this to the players either since a new mesh and some texture maps isn't going to fix an in-game asset - it'd still need to be hooked up to the ship mechanics and that would need one of the Devs working on it.
Until Cryptic realize the importance and the benefits of working with the community on long-standing issues and major changes to the game, things will just carry on as they are.
The way to get what you want is to get organized and stop spending money.
Trust me, I've already stopped pouring my money into this game since... a long time ago. It won't really affect anything though, ten other thirteen year old kids with huge allowances will make up the difference.
We can only get the Devs to bump these issues up in the fix-it list as legitimate immersion-breaking issues, as opposed to someone's pet project in a half-hour lunch break. I'm hoping someone is watching this thread, seeing the number of complaints about the issues with these ships, and reprioritizes them.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Game designers have a resource budget for how much detail they are allowed to put into a ship, there is no such thing as a curve in 3d computer graphics, it's all polygons, little triangles connected together, 15 to 20 thousand polys is about normal, a hundred thousand would be extreme and a million polys would be insane, there is an associated limitation on the size of the materials file(paint job) attached to that ship. They are not going to waste what limited budget they have adding some minor curve or whatever that would never even be seen in normal game play. This is not a single player game with one big detailed ship against a bunch of distant targets, it's multiplayer where in some areas there can be a hundred ships all working independently along with all the bits of scenery that also have to be rendered, the graphics engine has to be able to accommodate that and it has to be able to run on a wide range of computers, not just high end machines with the most expensive graphics cards, so trade-offs of detail for performance have to be made.
Certainly there are designs with serious flaws that need to be addressed, but anyone expecting studio model perfection can just keep on dreaming, because it's not going to happen.
If you want the devs to take this thread seriously, then be realistic and reasonable in your expectations.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
If you want the devs to take this thread seriously, then be realistic and reasonable in your expectations.
All I'm asking for, is the Devs to bump these issues up in the priority list. That is certainly not unreasonable.
As for the polygon issue, have you played a modded Star Trek: Bridge Commander? In that game, you can select your graphics detail level, which will choose a model with lower polygons and/or a smaller resolution texture file. I see it all the time in this game, in fact - lower quality ships appear when your Camera is a certain distance away. Try finding a Sovereign-class ship and flying a certain distance away from the front - the model changes to a lower rez model after a certain distance.
The lower resolution models I don't have an issue with. When I select the high quality models with 4x anistropic (Don't think that's spelled right) and high resolution textures, the flaws in the model really become clear. And considering the fact that for a good chunk of time players fly around in their starships, the quality of these models need to be on-par with the use and demand.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I keep seeing Bridge Commander being idolized, are we actually comparing STO with this or this or this? And STO is being called inferior? I like the LCARS ui but the ship models I'm seeing don't strike me as being that great, hopefully it's only because of lower graphics settings.
But once again it is a single player game, even with the settings maxed out you aren't going to see a lot of ships at one time and it would do no good to have super detailed ships only to have the engine bog down when there are too many of them on screen at the same time.
I guess a lot of this is a matter of opinion, I do not play the game with the ship zoomed in so that it fills the screen, since the game lacks a useful radar I prefer the situational awareness afforded by having the ship minimized enough that I can see what's going on around me.
It would be nice if there was a higher resolution and greater detail when ships are viewed up close but I won't agree that the current system is that inferior that it detracts from immersion and game play and a lot depends on your own expectations, fault can be found with even the studio models if you intend to be too particular.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I do not play the game with the ship zoomed in so that it fills the screen, since the game lacks a useful radar I prefer the situational awareness afforded by having the ship minimized enough that I can see what's going on around me.
I agree I always zoom all the way out unless I feel like gawking at my ship. I think the gripe about the position of the registry on the Sovereign is ridiculous too since STO is set over 30 years since the last canon appearance of the ship and the markings could have changed.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Comments
No, what you obviously need is a sense of perspective.
Then why don't you fire off your resume to them for the Art Dept's QA position? I'm sure they'd be thrilled.
Otherwise, /bug stuff and move on.
A sense of perspective? Please elaborate.
And I don't need to apply for a position within Cryptic's art department (and I doubt they're hiring). If you read previous posts of mine within this thread, I already offered a suggestion - let the gaming community have an unpaid shot at modeling the ships. That way, Cryptic doesn't have to pay for the person fixing their models, just supplying ingame rewards.
Also, /bug just reports the bug for some office worker to look at for a split second. I'm pushing for real action, getting the ships in this game fixed at some point in the foreseeable future. If you had read this thread, you wouldn't have to post that last line.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I know the "starcraft" type of gamer won't care about pretty ship moodels but I am with to OP on the Galaxy models I noticed the errors almost immediately. I don't get why the position of the ships name on the sovereign class is important. The game is 30 years after the films so conventions could have changed. But the Galaxy is not the same ship that you can see on tv every day and is uneven.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
As to the Sovereign: Naming conventions rarely change in Starfleet - after all, the name and registry are still in the same place on the more-than-140-year-old Miranda class.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
imho those Ships are a bit expensive to have quality issues like this,
picture is self explaining
*click to enlarge*
plz fix asap
kthxbye
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The new ships have holes in the floors on the bridge in some cases.
Shoddy workmanship. If you don't get them corrected when they first begin, they((Modelers)) think they can get away with more and more until their making huge glaring mistakes and no ones correcting them.
The models are just as bad as the rest of the game since Season 7. Glitched and incomplete.
That's exactly the point. The shoddy jobs are done, and that's okay if they're rushed. But they rarely go back to fix the issues, and we're left with a half-a$$ed job representing some of the most iconic ships in the Trek franchise.
I've gotten to the point where I don't have a desire for newer ships. Sure, more Fleet ships would be nice, but I'm of the opinion that the existing ships should be overhauled and improved even before we go and make newer ones.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Why? Maybe because fixing already purchased items aren't going to make them more money so are a low priority especially when they know people are still buying the ships even with known design flaws. That and taking time to fix them would delay them creating some new toy to put in a lockbox or throw into the C-Store to generate more capital. These guys don't get to pick and choose what they want to work on, they have to follow managerial directions and priorities. For the most part they are not in this for the love of Star Trek, they're in it for a paycheck, so their attention is going to be devoted to where the money is.
Jump into a sovereign, luna, galaxy, ect loaded with beams in the aft, they will all fire from only one point, on the very aft, cutting through your own nacelles, and beams on the fore fire from 3 very close points along a WIDE phaser array, and alot of ships have a dedicated aft array on the saucer, but is not used.. And dont get me started on the Oddy, firing only from the very tip of the nacelle.
Now jump into a vesta, it will fire aft beams from all along the secondary hull and from the pylons. And the ambassador is beautifully done, it uses the aft saucer arrays, the belly bank, and the pylons.. (my only grip is dual beams dont look right, they should fire from the array, not the edge of the saucer..) And even the bloated Chimera looks gorgeous as a beam boat.
And would it kill you to make beams a tad thinner at the point of fire? Shuttles fire beams thicker than the entire ship itself, and my intrepid looks like its firing beams meant to be mounted on a starbase...
/end rant
At the end of the Akira hull sections, the material cuts off instead of continuing it's original arc. Whats worse is that they originally had it right according to Memory Alpha.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:STO_(Perpetual)_USS_Perpetual,.jpg
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I don't have a problem with the designs, having a beef because some detail is missing here or that don't conform to the studio models is taking nit-picking to the level of being neurotic. My complaints are for the glaringly obvious flaws, textures that are missing or corrupted, components that are placed off center far enough that it is clearly visible, models with open seams that you can see into if you look closely, things like that.
In some cases, I agree, that is true. In the event that an older class needed some kind of upgrade (ex. the mini-deflector on the Miranda-class rollbar), I can live with that.
Seems like people don't really read this stuff...
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Agreed!
Really hope these fixes get done, someone needs to pull their finger out for once
The Sovereign doesn't need a fix, it needs an entirely new model, the current one is low poly and frankly hideous from some angles where the window lines jerk around.
Couldn't agree more.
Yeah, there's quite a lot of issues with the Sovereign model in general. I was looking at my 16inch model of the Enterprise-E the other day, and that thing had more accurate details than the ship in this game.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Always the Community has done much better work instead of the Game Studio, look at Bridge Commander. Whole new Ships much better with great details like in the movies than the default ones.
It's a shame... Cryptic's progress with Content is really slow they should spend 20% of their ressourcen wo enhance the current Models to become more like in the movies :mad:
The best we can hope for is that one of the ship artists gets enough free time (and inclination) to do a fix - much like Borticus is trying to fix PvP balance issues during his coffee breaks.
Cryptic aren't going to outsource this to the players either since a new mesh and some texture maps isn't going to fix an in-game asset - it'd still need to be hooked up to the ship mechanics and that would need one of the Devs working on it.
Until Cryptic realize the importance and the benefits of working with the community on long-standing issues and major changes to the game, things will just carry on as they are.
The way to get what you want is to get organized and stop spending money.
We can only get the Devs to bump these issues up in the fix-it list as legitimate immersion-breaking issues, as opposed to someone's pet project in a half-hour lunch break. I'm hoping someone is watching this thread, seeing the number of complaints about the issues with these ships, and reprioritizes them.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Certainly there are designs with serious flaws that need to be addressed, but anyone expecting studio model perfection can just keep on dreaming, because it's not going to happen.
If you want the devs to take this thread seriously, then be realistic and reasonable in your expectations.
where weapons are placed
where torps and mines are launched from
where the tractor emitters are emitting from
They are just obviously wrong sorry, and I'm no trek nerd but even I can tell these things are coming out of the wrong areas.
All I'm asking for, is the Devs to bump these issues up in the priority list. That is certainly not unreasonable.
As for the polygon issue, have you played a modded Star Trek: Bridge Commander? In that game, you can select your graphics detail level, which will choose a model with lower polygons and/or a smaller resolution texture file. I see it all the time in this game, in fact - lower quality ships appear when your Camera is a certain distance away. Try finding a Sovereign-class ship and flying a certain distance away from the front - the model changes to a lower rez model after a certain distance.
The lower resolution models I don't have an issue with. When I select the high quality models with 4x anistropic (Don't think that's spelled right) and high resolution textures, the flaws in the model really become clear. And considering the fact that for a good chunk of time players fly around in their starships, the quality of these models need to be on-par with the use and demand.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The guys and girls who designed these ships mite not have given the ok for them to be used hence the slight flaws
this or this or this? And STO is being called inferior? I like the LCARS ui but the ship models I'm seeing don't strike me as being that great, hopefully it's only because of lower graphics settings.
But once again it is a single player game, even with the settings maxed out you aren't going to see a lot of ships at one time and it would do no good to have super detailed ships only to have the engine bog down when there are too many of them on screen at the same time.
I guess a lot of this is a matter of opinion, I do not play the game with the ship zoomed in so that it fills the screen, since the game lacks a useful radar I prefer the situational awareness afforded by having the ship minimized enough that I can see what's going on around me.
It would be nice if there was a higher resolution and greater detail when ships are viewed up close but I won't agree that the current system is that inferior that it detracts from immersion and game play and a lot depends on your own expectations, fault can be found with even the studio models if you intend to be too particular.
I agree I always zoom all the way out unless I feel like gawking at my ship. I think the gripe about the position of the registry on the Sovereign is ridiculous too since STO is set over 30 years since the last canon appearance of the ship and the markings could have changed.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.