test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
The Running Virus in Shanty Town Issue
zeratk
Member Posts: 409
Taken from http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=545261
A few people making a lot of noise complaining about this issue.
Some claims who are often depicted with this issue.
1st claim:
Cloaked Virus carriers are totally invisible.
False!
They are visible! You just need to know what to watch out for. They don't show up on the minimap. Well, just like cloaked operatives normally do as well. Just take a glimpse from time to time on the minimap! On a round 4vs4 it is obvious instantly, if there a colored dot from the enemy team is missing!
So it is all about the laziness of some people to keep an eye on the minimap, and run back to defend the own main console if necessary!
In fact it is one of the most funny aspects of Shanty Town, to hunt down those cloaked Virus Uploaders. It is fun to search for this cloakd Virus Uploader with his pale gleam. It is fun to follow them cloaked and attack them, or wait till they decloakd for uploading. It is fun to follow them along loop ways. It is fun to hunt them down with Sensor Scan, Exothermic Induction Field or Snipe. In fact you don't even have to run back to your console to stop him from uploading. There are enogh weapons and abilities to prevent the Upload!
It is all about to watch out for this pale gleam!
2nd claim
You can't kill a cloaked Virus Uploader due to his perfect cloak or prevent the Upload of the Virus
False!
This is a problem of Covert & Stealth, not about Virus! Furthermore it only affects Caitians and Ferasans with adequate Skilltree and Traits!
There are more than enough tactics to prevent cloaked Virus Uploaders from accomplishing. Every profession can hunt down an Operative and prevent him from Uploading! For example:
Engineers can use mortars, turrets, mines and bombs near the console. Airstrike as well. Scis can use Sensor Scan. Furthermore Hyperionic Radiation and Exothermic Induction Field from great distance, which prevents the Upload for quite a long time. Operatives can follow the cloakd Virus uploader, all the time, while they are cloaked themselves.
And don't forget to snipe from great distance!
In my opinion this is only a problem because of the laziness of some people, and people complaining about exploits whenever there is a tactic or something else available which does not contribute to their tactics and abilities and their own control over the events on the round.
What else should have been the intention to implement the Stealth Module, if not to use it for something like this for example. Similiar with all the nagging cows complaining about the "Cloakers" in general, who Buff and Decloak to attack someone from behind.
Maybe you better take out Cloak and Stealth entirely from the game....:rolleyes:
Take it out (or make the cloak nonoperative while carrying the virus) and give thus a push to more boredom on Shanty Town. Deteriorate Assault PvP to nothing else than Sniping and using Pulsewave accross the bridge and down the alley.
And if you do so. Don't forget to nerf the Engineers with their Weapon Malfunction Kit as well. With this Kit and fully trained most people fail to stop such a player from loading up the virus at the minor console in the alley. They just stand upon the console, summon a covershield, lay mines and bomb and start the upload. Therefore you have to jump upon the covershield or behind it and then you get within the range of these mines and bombs, and maybe airstrikes. Most players die while trying. Any better than the virus issue i have depicted above!
08. Level Design: Running Virus in Shanty Town
Issue: The virus in shanty town is like the flag in capture the flag games, yet most people don't even notice whats going on there because the virus can be moved while under perfect cloak (covert trait + stealth module) and can be captured while under cloak (omega cloak+covert trait).. thus the virus carrier is never ever showing up on the minimap, the base turrets will never see anything either, making this totally unintuitive and hard to handle
A few people making a lot of noise complaining about this issue.
Some claims who are often depicted with this issue.
1st claim:
Cloaked Virus carriers are totally invisible.
False!
They are visible! You just need to know what to watch out for. They don't show up on the minimap. Well, just like cloaked operatives normally do as well. Just take a glimpse from time to time on the minimap! On a round 4vs4 it is obvious instantly, if there a colored dot from the enemy team is missing!
So it is all about the laziness of some people to keep an eye on the minimap, and run back to defend the own main console if necessary!
In fact it is one of the most funny aspects of Shanty Town, to hunt down those cloaked Virus Uploaders. It is fun to search for this cloakd Virus Uploader with his pale gleam. It is fun to follow them cloaked and attack them, or wait till they decloakd for uploading. It is fun to follow them along loop ways. It is fun to hunt them down with Sensor Scan, Exothermic Induction Field or Snipe. In fact you don't even have to run back to your console to stop him from uploading. There are enogh weapons and abilities to prevent the Upload!
It is all about to watch out for this pale gleam!
2nd claim
You can't kill a cloaked Virus Uploader due to his perfect cloak or prevent the Upload of the Virus
False!
This is a problem of Covert & Stealth, not about Virus! Furthermore it only affects Caitians and Ferasans with adequate Skilltree and Traits!
There are more than enough tactics to prevent cloaked Virus Uploaders from accomplishing. Every profession can hunt down an Operative and prevent him from Uploading! For example:
Engineers can use mortars, turrets, mines and bombs near the console. Airstrike as well. Scis can use Sensor Scan. Furthermore Hyperionic Radiation and Exothermic Induction Field from great distance, which prevents the Upload for quite a long time. Operatives can follow the cloakd Virus uploader, all the time, while they are cloaked themselves.
And don't forget to snipe from great distance!
In my opinion this is only a problem because of the laziness of some people, and people complaining about exploits whenever there is a tactic or something else available which does not contribute to their tactics and abilities and their own control over the events on the round.
What else should have been the intention to implement the Stealth Module, if not to use it for something like this for example. Similiar with all the nagging cows complaining about the "Cloakers" in general, who Buff and Decloak to attack someone from behind.
Maybe you better take out Cloak and Stealth entirely from the game....:rolleyes:
Take it out (or make the cloak nonoperative while carrying the virus) and give thus a push to more boredom on Shanty Town. Deteriorate Assault PvP to nothing else than Sniping and using Pulsewave accross the bridge and down the alley.
And if you do so. Don't forget to nerf the Engineers with their Weapon Malfunction Kit as well. With this Kit and fully trained most people fail to stop such a player from loading up the virus at the minor console in the alley. They just stand upon the console, summon a covershield, lay mines and bomb and start the upload. Therefore you have to jump upon the covershield or behind it and then you get within the range of these mines and bombs, and maybe airstrikes. Most players die while trying. Any better than the virus issue i have depicted above!
This is Crypticverse... :mad:
Post edited by zeratk on
0
Comments
Just because a dot isn't on the map doesn't mean a person is running the virus. For all you know, they could be waiting for someone to run off to the mainframe so they can one-shot shotgun our intrepid virus defender.
And even if one person does run off to stop the virus, if they're not up to the task, and the rest of the team stays on the bridge, what are you supposed to do? I've been in matches where I was the only one trying to stop the virus, and was typing in team chat constantly, but no one else did anything. I got teamed up on at the defense point, and that was that (and that wasn't even with a cloaker running the virus).
Engineers have two kits with weapons malfunction: Enemy Neutralization (the one with bombs you're talking about) and Equipment Technician (the one with heals as well). If Tacs can cloak and run the virus, I don't see any problem with Engineers using their own kits to help them run the virus.
A player with covert gets plus 456 stealth on distortion feild assuming he has no dominion tribble up. In actual tests plus 456 stealth makes a player invisible without any perception debuffs on him up to 15 meters. Any closer and that player can be seen without any perception buffs by the opposing player. It still is weird cause there is a light phaser turret maybe 3 meters away that should actually see the distortion fielded player right then and there. My guess is the aggro reaction time on these turrets sucks.
Now here's the simple fix Give the turrets an overpowered inate perception value. I would say plus 75 should be enough.
I can't. So I removed it from STO today.
Players in possession of the Virus on Shanty Town will find themselves unable to activate Stealth abilities until they get rid of the Virus. Or die.
I'm hoping this change makes it to Tribble this week.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
This is like the best Month ever for Ground PvP
Thanks for another great fix!
www.divisionhispana.com
Just to be clear that means stealth module. distortion field, and portable shroud generator even though those are worthless anyway. But again thanks and to NICK all I can say to you now is LOL what are you gonna do now?
Another quick but major fix 2 in one day. Major progress!
Awesome news
Hope you find time to address the other ground concerns as well.
Please give my thread on new pvp modes a look.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8347431#post8347431
Anyways, thanks again Borticus. You're restoring my faith and my sanity.
Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
kate-wintersbite.deviantart.com/art/0x01-Treachery-293641403
I could kiss you. This is wonderful to hear
Great news,great news indeed. Now,if using stealth abilities would also drop your shields like it does in space....
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
I think it can go either way. If people want to run the virus, that's fine, and it adds some cool tactical gameplay to the match. On the other hand, people that enjoy GPvP purely for the fighting are going to run the kill count, because Assault offers a longer match of actual PvP than the arenas.
What's really annoying is when the match is clearly moving towards one or the other, and people don't adapt and go with it. If the other team is constantly running the virus, but you just stay on the bridge trying to fight, that's no good. Similarly, if everyone in the match is just in a bridge battle, but you keep grabbing the virus and running towards death while contributing nothing else, that's no good either. Sure, the point of the map is technically to run the virus, but if it turns out to be just a deathmatch, so what?
You just don't get it! You are not invisible while carrying the virus! You can see the purple gleam of cloaked Virus Runner from half map distance!
And this made Assault Map far more interesting than any other Capture The Flag i have seen. You had a real use to hunt down cloakers!
Well then, go ahead!...
Well, it looks like assault has gone from a game of out thinking your opponent to a straight arena match. Part of the challenge of the game was defending the defense post and watching for cloaked players at the rear flank. It made for some interesting matches. Cloak under stealth module wasn't perfect with the virus anyway. It emits the high pitch virus sound Fx and the virus runner is partially visible at higher graphic levels. And to block all stealth abilities? That means no stealth module, no omega force distortion field, and no ambush. Any tactical officer with the operative kit would be crippled if they picked up the virus. Half of their kit abilities would be blocked. Wouldn't buffing the turret perception level to that of an elite tactical drone on the elite difficulty solve this problem? They can see through cloak at close range and it wouldn't cripple operative tactical officers.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
: Players are having fun
: NERF IT!
Not everyone can see the virus runner:
I will say that this change does tend to make Tacs a little worse at running the virus, if not useless. The issue was not that the flag carrier was invisible, but that the stealth powers, when combined, make Tacs completely invisible - that's a problem regardless of a Tac having the virus or not.
I would suggest, instead, what other CtF games do: announce that someone has the virus. As soon as someone downloads it, a message pops across the screen, just like the "Player has killed Other Player" messages.
The fact that the entire Shanty Town match could be won by a lone wolf Stealther running the Virus back-and-forth without being seen, was broken. It broke the intended gameplay mechanics, and it caused the associated team mechanics to be irrelevant.
If Operative-Tacs just became subpar Flag Carriers as a result of this change, I'm certain they'll still be outstanding defenders of those that do choose to carry in their stead. Especially with the potential damage output the Operative Kit still offers via Ambush. A team of a Doctor-Sci or EquipTech-Eng, escorted by 2-3 Op-Tacs... well, that sounds like a mighty fearsome Virus Escort team, don't you think?
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
600+ stealth (i.e. Operative with Covert) does not emit the glow fx at higher graphics levels and is not visible to turrets, players, elite tactical drones, a player with Target Optics and 20 Tricorder Scans on him, or God Himself.
Very nice fix. In most other MMOs, the "flag carrier" is VERY visible both in the game world, and on the minimap. The notion that a flag carrier could carry a flag (or in this case, a virus) while simultaneously being near invisible and unseen on the minimap, is completely alien to me. And i've played alot of MMOs over the years.
Picking up a flag (or virus), should logically remove you from stealth/cloak. The same would be if you get a DoT on you, and try stealthing. DoT damage would "break" the stealth.
The carrier should get certain movement debuffs while carrying (you know, like every other CTF game mode). Reduced speed (possibly over time, 5% after 10 sec, 10% after 20 sec etc, ending at at 25% speed reduction), as well as reduced vertical movement (i.e jumping height).
Caitians/Ferasans would still be better at jumping due to their innate traits, but not be able to exploit the relatively low walls.
There are 2 issues with stealth on the ground,the first being poor stealth detection.That problem is twofold,the stealth user can obtain perfect cloak,and the limitations in effectiveness and number of stealth detection abilities.The other issue is the fact that there is no real drawback to using stealth abilities,a slightly lower movement speed when using Stealth on the Operative kit is hardly a 'drawback'.
First of all,perfect cloak has to go,a hard cap to stealth values is necessary.Not being able to detect a cloaked opponent who is right in front of you,while you are using stealth detecting abilities is just ridiculous.Second,each career should have 2 abilities available to them to detect cloaked opponents,1 Captain and 1 kit ability.And third,Stealth abilities should have a real drawback to the user,like inactive shields while cloaked.
Now,if you are one of those people that need cloak to win,you probably won't agree with a single word in this post.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
You misread my post. When a cloaked player has the virus they emit a glow fx even when cloaked at higher graphic levels. There is also the distinct virus sound fx when the player is within 18m of the virus runner. Elite and Heavy Tactical Drones do indeed see through player cloak on the elite difficulty. Testing this is simple, just shoot at one in Khitomer Accord Ground Elite. They will see you and they will shoot at you. And 20 tricorder scans stacked on the player? That would be at least -1000 stealth assuming all 20 science officers had 0 points in scientist. The most cloaking an operative tactical officer with the covert trait can get is 612 stealth with 9 points in special forces. A single science officer will decrease that stealth rating to 562, which is visible at about 8 meters. A science officer with 6 points in scientist will drop a stealth rating by 92, which would drop the stealth rating to 520. That cloaker will be visible up until about 25 meters. And with the halved walking speed, how are they going to outrun you? And lastly, with the AoE nature of tricorder scan, it is possible to detect cloakers even without targeting them directly.
I agree with some of that you have said. There needs to be a wider range of stealth detection abilities, similar to space. Perhaps changing tricorder scan and fire on my mark to work like charged particle burst in space. A hit from the ability disables cloak for the duration. The science ability damper field should disable any cloak abilities within the field. It's a damper field, it makes sense to disable cloak as well. For engineering, it would be nice to see a new kit ability like Tachyon Detection Grid. -100 stealth to all enemies within the 15 meter field of the generator. Lastly, target optics should have an area effect -50 stealth debuff (improved through skill points) similar to tricorder scan.
As for having no major drawbacks, I have to disagree with you there. The player cannot run from cloak and they walk much slower than a player not using stealth. It is impossible for a cloaked player to keep up with or outrun a decloaked player, making a detected stealth player very vulnerable. Disabling shields would be overkill.
On the matter of "no perfect stealth", again I disagree. Space combat has no stealth cap, and it is possible to build a bird of prey with perfect stealth. It is a playstyle, and as with ground cloak, there are a some very vocal players complaining about perfect stealth in space. In both space and ground it is possible to anticipate a perfect stealth player. The buff sequence sound effect is very distinct. As with space bird of prey, cloaked players need a distraction to be effective. In a 1v1 where the other player is aware of the cloaker, once they counter (Vascular regnerator, reroute power to shields, emergency shield capacator, distortion field, cortazine hypo, etc.) the alpha strike the cloaker has very few options. The same is true in space, a well timed tactical team and Emergency Power to Shields I will blunt the alpha, and that bird of prey will either run or die. The big difference between ground and space is the fact that space has a large number of counters. All it takes is one well placed charged particle burst and that perfect stealth build is out of cloak for 20 seconds.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Yeah but lots of people turn graphics settings low for pvp to avoid lag from all the spam. even more important to do it now with all the plasma turrets.
I stealth run the virus with covert caitian too sometimes when I get sick of matches with people like Biggs constantly stealth cryoing everyone to try to end it, but I don't mind seeing it nerfed.
I would have prefered they makde it where you can still stealth and run the virus though. They should have just give the large turret near the mainframe a perception buff so he can see through a covert players distortion field or ambush.