Surely its better to have 1 game of great quality then 10 mediocre games, don't you think? There still is a need for a lot of development for this game.
It'd be great for the players not so great for Cryptic. Their desire to be a manufacturing ine for MMOs is one reason I plan to stay away from anything else they produce.
It'd be great for the players not so great for Cryptic. Their desire to be a manufacturing ine for MMOs is one reason I plan to stay away from anything else they produce.
Is there something preventing you and your friends from creating that one perfect game and footing the cost of development and operation yourselves so that we can all play 100% free of any fees?
Abandoning it for Neverwinter would mean fewer employees and lost audience. That argument has never made any sense to me.
Besides, why would you worry about PWE's most successful name in North America (STO) when CO is probably on much tinner ice.
And on the whole, Cryptic doesn't want to focus on one game. They have two more in the works for after Neverwinter. They want as many games as possible.
To expand on this thought, Cryptic initially designed their game engine to be modular. The same basic game engine runs Champions, Star Trek, and Neverwinter.
The advantage to this, and something that's been talked about/seen more in Champions than here as of now, is that development on the engine in one game can often times be ported to other games running on the engine. Because of that, we're likely to benefit from some of the new systems being developed for Neverwinter, as is Champions.
So, not only has the Star Trek team increased in size, the new team of developers working on the Neverwinter version of the engine are starting to incorporate their own ideas and fresh takes into the engine, which effectively increases development on other games running on the engine as well.
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Joined January 2010.
Surely its better to have 1 game of great quality then 10 mediocre games, don't you think? There still is a need for a lot of development for this game.
What happens to Cryptic when that one quality game finally becomes a passing fad that fades off into oblivion because not enough players bother to even log in?
There will always be a "need" or room for development in any MMO. The major issue that developers face is providing enough interest to consumers to maintain the profitability line.
Once the interest falls below a certain profitability level, it's not financially sound to invest any more time or effort to try to maintain interest in the product.
FYI, Stahl mentionned two different possibilities after lockboxes:
- new factions, which means new fleets, new fleet ships, new c-store ships, costumes, lockboxes sells because you want your Roluman temporal destroyer, and so on.
- improving lockboxes. He said that in an interview recently. While I'm not sure it's a good idea, because it means that they will introduce even more powerful stuff with power creep issues, it's in the works.
I don't know about that second bullet point. I read/listened to (I don't remember which) the same interview, and recall getting the impression that he was talking about improving the overall quality of what comes in a lockbox, not necessarily making the grand prize better. It seemed like the logic was if there's less worthless TRIBBLE in the lockboxes, more people will get the keys to open them.
I could very well be wrong, but I think that that statement was open to interpretation, and that's the way that it struck me.
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Joined January 2010.
To expand on this thought, Cryptic initially designed their game engine to be modular. The same basic game engine runs Champions, Star Trek, and Neverwinter.
The advantage to this, and something that's been talked about/seen more in Champions than here as of now, is that development on the engine in one game can often times be ported to other games running on the engine. Because of that, we're likely to benefit from some of the new systems being developed for Neverwinter, as is Champions.
So, not only has the Star Trek team increased in size, the new team of developers working on the Neverwinter version of the engine are starting to incorporate their own ideas and fresh takes into the engine, which effectively increases development on other games running on the engine as well.
Exactly. Part of how they increase their returns on Neverwinter is by making money off of STO using Neverwinter advances, in theory.
In practice, porting stuff seems to me to be almost more trouble than it's worth and I'd almost like to see the individual games hit a point of maturity where the only code branch mergers are stability/performance related while the focus is on merchandise, service, and content.
But I'd wager we have a very good shot at getting all the emotes and character animations from Neverwinter at least and I believe our Shooter Mode was basically a gigantic Neverwinter beta feature.
I wish we had an advanced Foundry tab like they get. Their costume editor is OMG awesomesauce. It makes me want to apply for a Cryptic job just to play with the full character tool in Champs or STO. I'd have some crazy side projects if I did content.
The problem is, with them releasing more powerful stuff in a lockbox, through random chance... such powerful items will become needed to play the game and compete with other players. Showing that powerful weapons/items etc are not earned like they are in most MMO's, they are simply bought and down to luck...
They can make lock boxes and make stuff for the C-Store, they can have their cake and eat it too....so why won't they? Lock boxes aren't going anywhere, it's too big a cash cow for them.
I believe they do make stuff for both. I've got a Temporal Destroyer (still in crate) and the new Andorian ships (C-Store).
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I've been in several PvP matches where I am flying the only non-lock box ship. I've been in many, many more where they are in the majority. Everyone points to the bug as OP, but quite frankly, I think all of them (except maybe the new Dominion ships) are OP.
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
The problem is, with them releasing more powerful stuff in a lockbox, through random chance... such powerful items will become needed to play the game and compete with other players. Showing that powerful weapons/items etc are not earned like they are in most MMO's, they are simply bought and down to luck...
Thats one of my main concerns.
There's so much wrong with that post. You assume that having less TRIBBLE in a lockbox means increasing the power of lockbox items - what if, instead, it means making all of the rare prizes desirable in some way? New, very rare costume pieces or other character customization, new ship materials, new ship patterns, things like that - what if they make it like, say, a TCG booster pack where you're guaranteed to get a rare that might be any number of things, but is still a rare? Something doesn't have to add power to be desirable.
In addition to that, point me to any lockbox ship aside from the Jem'hadar Attack Ship (and even that one's arguable) that is hands-down the best in its class and is needed to be competitive with other players. No one needs lock box ships to stay competitive in PvE or PvP. You can easily play this game at a basic level of competence without spending a penny on it, and can remain competitive in top-tier Fleet and C-store ships without spending a penny on it.
Again, nothing that's required to be a competitive and able player has ever come out of a lockbox, so I don't think that it's a huge concern.
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Joined January 2010.
I've been in several PvP matches where I am flying the only non-lock box ship. I've been in many, many more where they are in the majority. Everyone points to the bug as OP, but quite frankly, I think all of them (except maybe the new Dominion ships) are OP.
Really? The Wells/Orb Weaver is better than the Multi-Mission Science? The D'kora beats out the Assault Cruiser Refit? The Galor is better than an Advanced Heavy Cruiser (or, for a more accurate comparison, a Vor'cha-R)?
There are definitely non-box ships (and I'm not counting the Lobi ships associated with boxes, as they're not random and can be obtained by anyone) that are competitive with any of the box ships (with the arguable exception of the JAS, though people talk about beating them in non-box ships often enough).
Edit: And to further my point from my last two posts, ALL of the lockbox ships are within reach of a player who wants to spend the time to pick up some EC and buy them from the exchange, again JAS excluded - its demand is sky high due to perceived quality and synergy with the most recent lockbox release. Literally anyone can have these ships without having to personally spend real money on the game.
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Joined January 2010.
Honestly I don't even try to get lock box ships. I buy a few master keys with stashed zen from converting dilithium or from buying them 'low' on the exchange and take a few spins at the lottery to see what I'll get. Usually I get enough 'nice' things that it was worth it but I'd never just keep trying to get a lockbox ship... I never have and never will... I prefer zen store ships (and love my Chel Gret Christmas present as well) and do just fine in both PVE and PVP in them. I tend to PVP in the Chel Gret and PVE in my Vesta though I do take the vesta into PVP from time to time as well.
Bottom line: Lock boxes are for the filthy rich... I dabble at them but, I, like most players (I suspect) don't try to win the lottery with them by buying endless keys. I let the whales do that. I also am happy to let the whales run around in their 400 million EC Bugships while I slaughter them in my Breen Chel Gret because most of them are lousy pilots anyway.
I've been in several PvP matches where I am flying the only non-lock box ship. I've been in many, many more where they are in the majority. Everyone points to the bug as OP, but quite frankly, I think all of them (except maybe the new Dominion ships) are OP.
I totally agree with this sentiment, they appear much more then they should in PvP and ruin the unique aspects of both factions. I do consider them to be OP in a sense because they have much better stats.
The problem is, with them releasing more powerful stuff in a lockbox, through random chance... such powerful items will become needed to play the game and compete with other players. Showing that powerful weapons/items etc are not earned like they are in most MMO's, they are simply bought and down to luck...
Thats one of my main concerns.
I would agree with you, if STO were a PvP game. Since STO is not actually a PvP game, your point is moot.
FYI, Stahl mentionned two different possibilities after lockboxes:
...
- improving lockboxes. He said that in an interview recently. While I'm not sure it's a good idea, because it means that they will introduce even more powerful stuff with power creep issues, it's in the works.
Same problem. Thing is that a typical F2P game seems to be selling things as a product, when they are actually a service. Granted, there is typically little to no extra money needed to actually maintain new "products" (except for general code maintenance). However, as STO is ultimately a service, they need a continual cash flow to keep the devs going and continue making content, keep the lights on, etc. STO is not on a CD that you can take home, it's on a server and that server needs to have people to keep it running.
And people will only buy so much product - especially if you frustrate them once they've slowed their spending by making their products continually less competitive/useful. Frustrating a customer is usually not a way to encourage them to return their spending to previously high levels.
I think what this boils down to is "product" versus "service," and it seems that unless it is addressed, the massive weak point of any game with an F2P model is the treatment of service as product.
Ironically, at least for me, this makes it LESS likely I'll spend money on an F2P game, as I want games I play to be around for a very long time. This hasn't stopped me from subscribing, though, as I feel that's a fair price and way to "help out" on my own. That said, it doesn't make me overly eager to run off to the Z-Store.
Really? The Wells/Orb Weaver is better than the Multi-Mission Science? The D'kora beats out the Assault Cruiser Refit? The Galor is better than an Advanced Heavy Cruiser (or, for a more accurate comparison, a Vor'cha-R)?
Obviously enough people besides myself believe this, since I see more of the lock box ships in PvP than the other ones that you mention. I have no trouble in maintaining my own against any of the non-lock box ships you mention, but am always at a disadvantage against most of the lock-boxes. Okay, the Tholian ships aren't all that.
And I will agree with you, that if you can't beat them, you probably are going to have to join them.
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
If your entire revenue stream is going only towards office upkeap and not towards bettering and fixing the game it's time to consider cutbacks.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Come on folks, it's not going to change. Oh, the packaging might but the premise never will. Until the lights go out in the server room it will be an endless cycle of incrementally better ships/equipment that generate $ for PWE. They will continue to skirt the P2W line as closely as possible, and monetize whatever they can.
There's no shame in that, it's a business. The only business of business is business, and profit>all.
I've been reading this thread carefully and didn't want to post in here but when I read this i was like :eek:
The team size has doubled in a year, which means all your complaint about a low quality game and not enough investment is wrong. Maybe you don't like the season 7 content (but most people praised it when it's been released anyway, I remember unending threads saying how awsome new romulus and the 2 new stfs were), but you're unfair when you say there's no investment.
A lot of hardcore fans have a bad case of "No True Scotsman" in just about everything they opine on the topic. Shrug it off for your own sanity.
Of course, we have to take into account that Cryptic chose the Free-to-Play model that now exists in STO. Personally I feel this has always been a recipe for disaster. I cannot think of one F2P game that has come close to the popularity of the leading MMO. (WoW and EvE).
Wow had its problems but at least it never begged for my money to get the latest items etc... I only ever bought the Celestial Steed for my own vanity and because I choose to. The problem is, if you put no money into this game, you are looking at one long, boring and frustrating grind.
I do not think anyone can label Free-2-Play games as successful (Guild Wars is not included in this because you actually bought the game first). To me, they are just the last recourse of the desperate in which developers admit that their product is not worth paying for.
Perfect World - Never heard of it before Cryptic was bought
WoW - Around for 6 years, continually the LEADING MMO and has never been Free to Play (Except the Level 20 Trial).
Which one is the success story and which one is not?
Its the fact that Cryptic beg for our money for products that are extreamly low quality and require a number of "fixes" because they do not work as "intended" from release. Its like watching somebodies dad become homeless on the street, you care about them but not enough to give them the constant cash they keep asking for.
I do not think anyone can label Free-2-Play games as successful.
Although I've agreed with you on many an issue, that is a pretty ignorant statment. For example, World of Tanks and Mech Warrior Online both released as Free to Play, and The Secret World (from what I learned while playing the closed beta) had a subscription just long enough to build up capital before going F2P (one could tell by playing the game the F2P was the intent with that one). Lord of the Rings Online is still going strong as well with their hybrid model.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Although I've agreed with you on many an issue, that is a pretty ignorant statment. For example, World of Tanks and Mech Warrior Online both released as Free to Play, and The Secret World (from what I learned while playing the closed beta) had a subscription just long enough to build up capital before going F2P (one could tell by playing the game the F2P was the intent with that one). Lord of the Rings Online is still going strong as well.
I personally, am not a lover of Free to Play games because they constantly bug you for money like a little child begging for candy. It just annoys me how that can be an effective sales tactic and how nobody else finds that annoying. I would rather pay a subscription and have access to all the game has to offer. Additional extras I would like to be "cosmetic" only so they are not needed, even to improve game stats.
I just annoys me how money-grabbing this game and others can be.
Lock boxes serve to sustain and support this Free to Play game so that you don't have to spend one single dime on playing all of the content available.
C-Store purchases serve to sustain and support this Free to Play game so that you don't have to spend one single dime on playing all of the content available.
If you want the fancy costumes (in STO's space version of your avatar - ships) then that will cost you money, time or both.
Cryptic hasn't broken PvP. PvP players have bought into the min/max'ing of the game mechanics which leads to only one mathematically "correct result of perfection". And since there can only be one "correct result of perfection" from all that math, nothing else can or ever will be equal in stature. Which leads to complaints and comments of the game being a joke because now all PvPers have to hunt down that perfect ship in order to be perfectly competitive.
Cryptic offers alternative costumes to suit most every discriminating taste. But "there can be only one" perfect ship for PvP.
KDF players ask why they don't get 3packs of ships like the Feds do. Very same reason applies. If the offered ship can not equal that "correct result of perfection" then they will not bother to buy any ships. So Cryptic loses money on making "imperfect" Klingon ship costumes and decides logically not to chance losing money or development time to provide any more ships to the Klingon players.
Anyways, enough of my bent, twisted thoughts and reasoning's. Ya'll can go back to blaming Cryptic for Cryptic not reading every individuals mind in order to meet every individuals expectations of what STO should be, for those individuals.
I'll go back to whaling and supporting STO so that ya'll have something to complain, moan and groan about. For Free.
Total agree on lockboxes... a friend of mine bought the big fat JH Carrier for 800 Lobis or basically 160? and I in my well more of less great outfittet 45? kumari escort (i use the engi version) do come very close to his dps, its like only a 5% difference or something which can alwas be contributed to the sircumstances like be dying needlessly and stuff like that.
So i dont see any lockbox ships being totally overpowered or something.
But - as a mathematician myself I have to say there is no reason why there cant be more than one optimal ship. With correct balacing its well perhaps hard to achieve but not impossible. There can always be more than one optimal solution to a problem not just one.
I personally, am not a lover of Free to Play games because they constantly bug you for money like a little child begging for candy. It just annoys me how that can be an effective sales tactic and how nobody else finds that annoying. I would rather pay a subscription and have access to all the game has to offer. Additional extras I would like to be "cosmetic" only so they are not needed, even to improve game stats.
I just annoys me how money-grabbing this game and others can be.
It's not that no one finds it annoying (on the contrary I'm sure many find it annoying), it's that it is the current business model craze and it does make the developer money.
WoW and EVE were the right games at the right time, which is why they are still largely subscription based. However, this game would never have survived being a sub game strictly because of the lack of content.
Look at what happened to SWTOR and how fast that game went F2P, strictly because that game had nothing to offer but a good story. People will not fork over $15 a month for an online single player game only, and SWTOR suffered.
Nowadays, if you do not relese with the same amount of content that WoW has currently, you will not survive. If you do not want to release with that much content, you must do F2P, or else no one will give your game a second look.
Like it or not, Free to Play is the model of the future (with the occasional LotR like hybrid model). Heck, I'm pretty sure game consoles will soon expand on their downloadable offerings and offer more free games (just paying the whatever a month/year subscription fee).
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Escorts would return to the way they were as "glass canons" or the "mages of STO", Cruisers would become useful again at shielding escorts and science vessels would again become powerful.
TLDR; a weekly QQ thread trying to piggy-back off lockbox QQ because the "whah cruisers are UP" QQ is basically ignored at this point.
A guaranteed unlock for every character on an account. That's great value.
There are contradictory systems at work here. Per character rep grind? I don't care how much perceived value is in the account wide C-store unlock; I'm not grinding more rep, so I'm not seriously rolling an alt, and so there's really no value in the account wide C-store unlock.
Look at what happened to SWTOR and how fast that game went F2P, strictly because that game had nothing to offer but a good story. People will not fork over $15 a month for an online single player game only, and SWTOR suffered.
I can't decide if SWTOR went MMO as a form of DRM, or if they really thought they could cash in on Blizzard's action.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
It's not that no one finds it annoying (on the contrary I'm sure many find it annoying), it's that it is the current business model craze and it does make the developer money.
WoW and EVE were the right games at the right time, which is why they are still largely subscription based. However, this game would never have survived being a sub game strictly because of the lack of content.
Look at what happened to SWTOR and how fast that game went F2P, strictly because that game had nothing to offer but a good story. People will not fork over $15 a month for an online single player game only, and SWTOR suffered.
Nowadays, if you do not relese with the same amount of content that WoW has currently, you will not survive. If you do not want to release with that much content, you must do F2P, or else no one will give your game a second look.
Like it or not, Free to Play is the model of the future (with the occasional LotR like hybrid model). Heck, I'm pretty sure game consoles will soon expand on their downloadable offerings and offer more free games (just paying the whatever a month/year subscription fee).
Am I the only person who thinks, if you do not have the resources to make a game with content to rival WoW or EvE that you should just not bother until you do? This game would be a lot better if that were to happen and same goes for a lot of F2P MMO's. Old Republic included.
Like it or not... WoW is the benchmark MMO... this game had a unique concept of both Ground and Space that was supposed to make it compelling, however instead of making this unique experience even better, the devs are wasting time building ships that are not really needed and not fixing bugs that have been around since launch.
Of course, we have to take into account that Cryptic chose the Free-to-Play model that now exists in STO. Personally I feel this has always been a recipe for disaster. I cannot think of one F2P game that has come close to the popularity of the leading MMO. (WoW and EvE).
Wow had its problems but at least it never begged for my money to get the latest items etc... I only ever bought the Celestial Steed for my own vanity and because I choose to. The problem is, if you put no money into this game, you are looking at one long, boring and frustrating grind.
I do not think anyone can label Free-2-Play games as successful (Guild Wars is not included in this because you actually bought the game first). To me, they are just the last recourse of the desperate in which developers admit that their product is not worth paying for.
Perfect World - Never heard of it before Cryptic was bought
WoW - Around for 6 years, continually the LEADING MMO and has never been Free to Play (Except the Level 20 Trial).
Which one is the success story and which one is not?
Its the fact that Cryptic beg for our money for products that are extreamly low quality and require a number of "fixes" because they do not work as "intended" from release. Its like watching somebodies dad become homeless on the street, you care about them but not enough to give them the constant cash they keep asking for.
Your main flaw is comparing the game to the 500 pound gorilla of the MMO world, since at least the design stages of CO and most likely before Cryptic hasn't attempted to compete with WoW, no MMO can currently as it has the highest amount of active subscribers of any subscription MMO in the world.
That means it has a larger budget, larger dev team, and an actual advertising budget that can go beyond banner ads and the occasional Magazine ad.
Attempting to compare the success of an MMO to WoW is pointless, as has been said multiple times, it was just the right game at the right time.
Am I the only person who thinks, if you do not have the resources to make a game with content to rival WoW or EvE that you should just not bother until you do? This game would be a lot better if that were to happen and same goes for a lot of F2P MMO's. Old Republic included.
Like it or not... WoW is the benchmark MMO... this game had a unique concept of both Ground and Space that was supposed to make it compelling, however instead of making this unique experience even better, the devs are wasting time building ships that are not really needed and not fixing bugs that have been around since launch.
I am very glad that many MMO developers and publishers disagree with you, otherwise it would be a very quiet world on the MMO front and even WoW would have likely died years ago.
Am I the only person who thinks, if you do not have the resources to make a game with content to rival WoW or EvE that you should just not bother until you do? This game would be a lot better if that were to happen and same goes for a lot of F2P MMO's. Old Republic included.
Cryptic did not have the time to have the same amount of content as WoW. They were still bound to the same deadline as what Perpetual had. If they would have waited til they had the same content level, we would not be having this discussion as STO would not exist.
Like it or not... WoW is the benchmark MMO... this game had a unique concept of both Ground and Space that was supposed to make it compelling, however instead of making this unique experience even better, the devs are wasting time building ships that are not really needed and not fixing bugs that have been around since launch.
Really? How many times does this have to be said? Ship artists do not fix bugs. Ship artists do not write stories. Ship artists makes ships. Only ships.
Really? How many times does this have to be said? Ship artists do not fix bugs. Ship artists do not write stories. Ship artists makes ships. Only ships.
Since when did the word "developer" only apply to ship artists? We all know the word "developer" is used to encompass all those who working on a game at a development studio, from the Exec right down to the programers.
In this instance he is correct; as a whole the development team is pumping out ships rather than bug fixes.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Comments
It'd be great for the players not so great for Cryptic. Their desire to be a manufacturing ine for MMOs is one reason I plan to stay away from anything else they produce.
To expand on this thought, Cryptic initially designed their game engine to be modular. The same basic game engine runs Champions, Star Trek, and Neverwinter.
The advantage to this, and something that's been talked about/seen more in Champions than here as of now, is that development on the engine in one game can often times be ported to other games running on the engine. Because of that, we're likely to benefit from some of the new systems being developed for Neverwinter, as is Champions.
So, not only has the Star Trek team increased in size, the new team of developers working on the Neverwinter version of the engine are starting to incorporate their own ideas and fresh takes into the engine, which effectively increases development on other games running on the engine as well.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
What happens to Cryptic when that one quality game finally becomes a passing fad that fades off into oblivion because not enough players bother to even log in?
There will always be a "need" or room for development in any MMO. The major issue that developers face is providing enough interest to consumers to maintain the profitability line.
Once the interest falls below a certain profitability level, it's not financially sound to invest any more time or effort to try to maintain interest in the product.
I don't know about that second bullet point. I read/listened to (I don't remember which) the same interview, and recall getting the impression that he was talking about improving the overall quality of what comes in a lockbox, not necessarily making the grand prize better. It seemed like the logic was if there's less worthless TRIBBLE in the lockboxes, more people will get the keys to open them.
I could very well be wrong, but I think that that statement was open to interpretation, and that's the way that it struck me.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
Exactly. Part of how they increase their returns on Neverwinter is by making money off of STO using Neverwinter advances, in theory.
In practice, porting stuff seems to me to be almost more trouble than it's worth and I'd almost like to see the individual games hit a point of maturity where the only code branch mergers are stability/performance related while the focus is on merchandise, service, and content.
But I'd wager we have a very good shot at getting all the emotes and character animations from Neverwinter at least and I believe our Shooter Mode was basically a gigantic Neverwinter beta feature.
I wish we had an advanced Foundry tab like they get. Their costume editor is OMG awesomesauce. It makes me want to apply for a Cryptic job just to play with the full character tool in Champs or STO. I'd have some crazy side projects if I did content.
Thats one of my main concerns.
I believe they do make stuff for both. I've got a Temporal Destroyer (still in crate) and the new Andorian ships (C-Store).
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
There's so much wrong with that post. You assume that having less TRIBBLE in a lockbox means increasing the power of lockbox items - what if, instead, it means making all of the rare prizes desirable in some way? New, very rare costume pieces or other character customization, new ship materials, new ship patterns, things like that - what if they make it like, say, a TCG booster pack where you're guaranteed to get a rare that might be any number of things, but is still a rare? Something doesn't have to add power to be desirable.
In addition to that, point me to any lockbox ship aside from the Jem'hadar Attack Ship (and even that one's arguable) that is hands-down the best in its class and is needed to be competitive with other players. No one needs lock box ships to stay competitive in PvE or PvP. You can easily play this game at a basic level of competence without spending a penny on it, and can remain competitive in top-tier Fleet and C-store ships without spending a penny on it.
Again, nothing that's required to be a competitive and able player has ever come out of a lockbox, so I don't think that it's a huge concern.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
Really? The Wells/Orb Weaver is better than the Multi-Mission Science? The D'kora beats out the Assault Cruiser Refit? The Galor is better than an Advanced Heavy Cruiser (or, for a more accurate comparison, a Vor'cha-R)?
There are definitely non-box ships (and I'm not counting the Lobi ships associated with boxes, as they're not random and can be obtained by anyone) that are competitive with any of the box ships (with the arguable exception of the JAS, though people talk about beating them in non-box ships often enough).
Edit: And to further my point from my last two posts, ALL of the lockbox ships are within reach of a player who wants to spend the time to pick up some EC and buy them from the exchange, again JAS excluded - its demand is sky high due to perceived quality and synergy with the most recent lockbox release. Literally anyone can have these ships without having to personally spend real money on the game.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
Bottom line: Lock boxes are for the filthy rich... I dabble at them but, I, like most players (I suspect) don't try to win the lottery with them by buying endless keys. I let the whales do that. I also am happy to let the whales run around in their 400 million EC Bugships while I slaughter them in my Breen Chel Gret because most of them are lousy pilots anyway.
- Damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead!
I totally agree with this sentiment, they appear much more then they should in PvP and ruin the unique aspects of both factions. I do consider them to be OP in a sense because they have much better stats.
Same problem. Thing is that a typical F2P game seems to be selling things as a product, when they are actually a service. Granted, there is typically little to no extra money needed to actually maintain new "products" (except for general code maintenance). However, as STO is ultimately a service, they need a continual cash flow to keep the devs going and continue making content, keep the lights on, etc. STO is not on a CD that you can take home, it's on a server and that server needs to have people to keep it running.
And people will only buy so much product - especially if you frustrate them once they've slowed their spending by making their products continually less competitive/useful. Frustrating a customer is usually not a way to encourage them to return their spending to previously high levels.
I think what this boils down to is "product" versus "service," and it seems that unless it is addressed, the massive weak point of any game with an F2P model is the treatment of service as product.
Ironically, at least for me, this makes it LESS likely I'll spend money on an F2P game, as I want games I play to be around for a very long time. This hasn't stopped me from subscribing, though, as I feel that's a fair price and way to "help out" on my own. That said, it doesn't make me overly eager to run off to the Z-Store.
Obviously enough people besides myself believe this, since I see more of the lock box ships in PvP than the other ones that you mention. I have no trouble in maintaining my own against any of the non-lock box ships you mention, but am always at a disadvantage against most of the lock-boxes. Okay, the Tholian ships aren't all that.
And I will agree with you, that if you can't beat them, you probably are going to have to join them.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
If your entire revenue stream is going only towards office upkeap and not towards bettering and fixing the game it's time to consider cutbacks.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
There's no shame in that, it's a business. The only business of business is business, and profit>all.
A lot of hardcore fans have a bad case of "No True Scotsman" in just about everything they opine on the topic. Shrug it off for your own sanity.
Wow had its problems but at least it never begged for my money to get the latest items etc... I only ever bought the Celestial Steed for my own vanity and because I choose to. The problem is, if you put no money into this game, you are looking at one long, boring and frustrating grind.
I do not think anyone can label Free-2-Play games as successful (Guild Wars is not included in this because you actually bought the game first). To me, they are just the last recourse of the desperate in which developers admit that their product is not worth paying for.
Perfect World - Never heard of it before Cryptic was bought
WoW - Around for 6 years, continually the LEADING MMO and has never been Free to Play (Except the Level 20 Trial).
Which one is the success story and which one is not?
Its the fact that Cryptic beg for our money for products that are extreamly low quality and require a number of "fixes" because they do not work as "intended" from release. Its like watching somebodies dad become homeless on the street, you care about them but not enough to give them the constant cash they keep asking for.
Although I've agreed with you on many an issue, that is a pretty ignorant statment. For example, World of Tanks and Mech Warrior Online both released as Free to Play, and The Secret World (from what I learned while playing the closed beta) had a subscription just long enough to build up capital before going F2P (one could tell by playing the game the F2P was the intent with that one). Lord of the Rings Online is still going strong as well with their hybrid model.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I personally, am not a lover of Free to Play games because they constantly bug you for money like a little child begging for candy. It just annoys me how that can be an effective sales tactic and how nobody else finds that annoying. I would rather pay a subscription and have access to all the game has to offer. Additional extras I would like to be "cosmetic" only so they are not needed, even to improve game stats.
I just annoys me how money-grabbing this game and others can be.
Total agree on lockboxes... a friend of mine bought the big fat JH Carrier for 800 Lobis or basically 160? and I in my well more of less great outfittet 45? kumari escort (i use the engi version) do come very close to his dps, its like only a 5% difference or something which can alwas be contributed to the sircumstances like be dying needlessly and stuff like that.
So i dont see any lockbox ships being totally overpowered or something.
But - as a mathematician myself I have to say there is no reason why there cant be more than one optimal ship. With correct balacing its well perhaps hard to achieve but not impossible. There can always be more than one optimal solution to a problem not just one.
It's not that no one finds it annoying (on the contrary I'm sure many find it annoying), it's that it is the current business model craze and it does make the developer money.
WoW and EVE were the right games at the right time, which is why they are still largely subscription based. However, this game would never have survived being a sub game strictly because of the lack of content.
Look at what happened to SWTOR and how fast that game went F2P, strictly because that game had nothing to offer but a good story. People will not fork over $15 a month for an online single player game only, and SWTOR suffered.
Nowadays, if you do not relese with the same amount of content that WoW has currently, you will not survive. If you do not want to release with that much content, you must do F2P, or else no one will give your game a second look.
Like it or not, Free to Play is the model of the future (with the occasional LotR like hybrid model). Heck, I'm pretty sure game consoles will soon expand on their downloadable offerings and offer more free games (just paying the whatever a month/year subscription fee).
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
There are contradictory systems at work here. Per character rep grind? I don't care how much perceived value is in the account wide C-store unlock; I'm not grinding more rep, so I'm not seriously rolling an alt, and so there's really no value in the account wide C-store unlock.
I can't decide if SWTOR went MMO as a form of DRM, or if they really thought they could cash in on Blizzard's action.
Am I the only person who thinks, if you do not have the resources to make a game with content to rival WoW or EvE that you should just not bother until you do? This game would be a lot better if that were to happen and same goes for a lot of F2P MMO's. Old Republic included.
Like it or not... WoW is the benchmark MMO... this game had a unique concept of both Ground and Space that was supposed to make it compelling, however instead of making this unique experience even better, the devs are wasting time building ships that are not really needed and not fixing bugs that have been around since launch.
Your main flaw is comparing the game to the 500 pound gorilla of the MMO world, since at least the design stages of CO and most likely before Cryptic hasn't attempted to compete with WoW, no MMO can currently as it has the highest amount of active subscribers of any subscription MMO in the world.
That means it has a larger budget, larger dev team, and an actual advertising budget that can go beyond banner ads and the occasional Magazine ad.
Attempting to compare the success of an MMO to WoW is pointless, as has been said multiple times, it was just the right game at the right time.
I am very glad that many MMO developers and publishers disagree with you, otherwise it would be a very quiet world on the MMO front and even WoW would have likely died years ago.
Cryptic did not have the time to have the same amount of content as WoW. They were still bound to the same deadline as what Perpetual had. If they would have waited til they had the same content level, we would not be having this discussion as STO would not exist.
Really? How many times does this have to be said? Ship artists do not fix bugs. Ship artists do not write stories. Ship artists makes ships. Only ships.
Since when did the word "developer" only apply to ship artists? We all know the word "developer" is used to encompass all those who working on a game at a development studio, from the Exec right down to the programers.
In this instance he is correct; as a whole the development team is pumping out ships rather than bug fixes.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind