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Lockboxes are good for this game.
centersolace
Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
"But wait centersolace!" You exclaim, "haven't you been one of the most vocal anit-lockbox leaders since their inception?" Yes. I still am. However, today I was thinking about how I'm not a gambler and have never spent a penny on gambling. But then I realized something; Yes I have. Quite a considerable amount of money in fact, and I imagine a fair number of you have spent money on this as well.
Trading Card Games.
Face it. Going through pack after pack, hoping to get that one rare, limited production, shiny Pikachu/Blue Eyes White Dragon/Liliana of the Dark Realms simply because it's been designated as such... yup that's gambling all right. So what's the difference? Well, lockboxes seem to be designed more like gachapons where you stick money in a vending machine and get a random item. Whereas with a trading card game you get more than one thing, and trade for the things you want.
Sure, you can trade lockbox ships, but that seems to be more of an afterthought rather than something they were based upon. So yes, what I'm saying is that we don't have enough lockboxes or lockbox ships. We need more. Lots more. But have them all of varying likelyhoods so you're almost always guaranteed to get a ship (Well, it doesn't have to be a ship, it could be bridge officers, weapons, costumes, whatever really) just make sure that someone somewhere would be willing to trade what he has for it. For example, I'm not really a ship guy, but I love me my costumes. Hint. Hint.
Lockboxes are fairly successful already, but if they were designed more like trading card game where you were always guaranteed to get something good, and you could always trade it for something else I think that would be even more successful. Harder, but even more successful.
So that might require a few changes:
1. Everything needs to be tradeable. You know how you can't trade mining claims? Yeah, that's bad.
2. There needs to be ten things worth getting per lockbox run at the minimum. But this can be ships, costumes, hairstyles, bridge officers, weapons, items, pets, so on and so forth. So it doesn't have to be hard to make these things.
3. Lockbox ship consoles need to be useable on other ships. Not every card needs to have the deck it came with, and not every console needs the ship it came with. As a compromise, some consoles could be slightly less effective on other ships, for example temporal backstep would run 10 seconds rather than 13.
4. Ships need to be reclaimable if you dismiss it. I mean really? Why is this even a thing? If a player accidentally dismisses their ship, they're far more likely to storm off in a rage rather than buy a new one. Everything else I mention is free game though.
Yes, lockboxes are fairly successful as they are now, but these changes would give them much more longevity.
Though, don't forget about the C-Store. That needs love too.
Trading Card Games.
Face it. Going through pack after pack, hoping to get that one rare, limited production, shiny Pikachu/Blue Eyes White Dragon/Liliana of the Dark Realms simply because it's been designated as such... yup that's gambling all right. So what's the difference? Well, lockboxes seem to be designed more like gachapons where you stick money in a vending machine and get a random item. Whereas with a trading card game you get more than one thing, and trade for the things you want.
Sure, you can trade lockbox ships, but that seems to be more of an afterthought rather than something they were based upon. So yes, what I'm saying is that we don't have enough lockboxes or lockbox ships. We need more. Lots more. But have them all of varying likelyhoods so you're almost always guaranteed to get a ship (Well, it doesn't have to be a ship, it could be bridge officers, weapons, costumes, whatever really) just make sure that someone somewhere would be willing to trade what he has for it. For example, I'm not really a ship guy, but I love me my costumes. Hint. Hint.
Lockboxes are fairly successful already, but if they were designed more like trading card game where you were always guaranteed to get something good, and you could always trade it for something else I think that would be even more successful. Harder, but even more successful.
So that might require a few changes:
1. Everything needs to be tradeable. You know how you can't trade mining claims? Yeah, that's bad.
2. There needs to be ten things worth getting per lockbox run at the minimum. But this can be ships, costumes, hairstyles, bridge officers, weapons, items, pets, so on and so forth. So it doesn't have to be hard to make these things.
3. Lockbox ship consoles need to be useable on other ships. Not every card needs to have the deck it came with, and not every console needs the ship it came with. As a compromise, some consoles could be slightly less effective on other ships, for example temporal backstep would run 10 seconds rather than 13.
4. Ships need to be reclaimable if you dismiss it. I mean really? Why is this even a thing? If a player accidentally dismisses their ship, they're far more likely to storm off in a rage rather than buy a new one. Everything else I mention is free game though.
Yes, lockboxes are fairly successful as they are now, but these changes would give them much more longevity.
Though, don't forget about the C-Store. That needs love too.
Post edited by centersolace on
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but yeah why is that not a thing with the reclaiming.
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People are on the internet and making sense!!
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Everyone ? Really ?
Now I understand the "spirit" of what you said , but that "everyone" seems to be missing a few ppl (the majority of the playerbase actually) , you know those who buy another 10-50$ worth of keys to try again and then either buy more keys or curse loudly at Cryptic , lockboxes heck some even at their fellow players , and those who sit back and quietly wait for the ships to show up on the secondary market .
Plus there are those who just don't care .
So no offense , but I would hardly call that "everyone" . More like a lucky few maybe .
(some of which take a delight to park their new shiny next to ESD)
Oh and OP , it's still gambling with relatively 'big' money .
Trading cards don't cost this much .
Just my opinion , not looking to debate this again .
I have to disagree on this point. Trading cards can, will, and DO cost 'that much'. Whatever hot new thing is 'in' for a TCG is always going to be pricy.
As someone who has played Yugioh and Magic in the past, it's not fun or cheap to get the really rare and pricy stuff.
Jace the Mind Sculptor anyone?
For all the gripes I might have about this game, at least the pixels I'm paying all this money for I know will be here until the game goes away, and won't really ever change. The value and usage of cards can change between one day and the next.
Sure, I have a ton of mining claims. That's ... odd.
But I regularly get DOffs that I need for Starbase construction. Or can use to trade up to better DOffs. I've even gotten a few purples.
Lobi which I've saved up and gotten some pretty cool things with.
Some cool consoles/weapons/etc. that I've been able to sell for reasonable amounts (it not really really good amounts).
No ships though.
Not a biggie though, as I think almost any ship I get would just be sold so I wouldn't need to worry about money in game for quite a while.
Ya pays yer buck twenty five and takes yer chances.
They are on a vendor. You can pick up the current lockbox on the Dil store for some Dilithium, or on the exchange for an average of 1000EC each.
I hope you're not one of those folks that doesn't want to see them drop because they think they're taking the place of regular loot. They aren't. The devs have stated repeatedly that lockboxes are on a separate drop table and only EVER drop in addition to whatever loot would have dropped in the first place.
And if your problems are aesthetic, why don't you have issues with the giant floating glowing loot crystals that appear magically after you kill enemies? Do you like those? Would it be better if Lockboxes looked like those instead?
This was actually proven quite effectively when Lockboxes first came out and dropped from everything.
Even torpedoes and mines which don't normally have a drop table.
Apologies for the snip, but for the sake of brevity I figured I'd save some space.
While I agree that most of those suggestions would make lockboxes more palatable, they don't solve what is in my mind the core problem: the perception (accurate or not) that Cryptic is focusing it's efforts on short term fluff at the expense of long term sustainability.
IE: they crank out lockbox after lockbox to generate cash from a high turnover population as opposed to building up sustainable frameworks that keep people playing and enjoying themselves for the long term.
True, very true. But since one ship will be just as valid as the next, That can keep people trading, and thus buying.
Heh heh. Truth be told I do still have a Celestia - Lightsworn Angel. I was just using examples that most people would be familiar with. There was a point in time where Blue-Eyes was fairly rare.
That is a large problem, but the thing is, they are building up sustainable frameworks. Lockboxes and reputation both serve that purpose. How well is a matter of debate, but that is their intended design. Making lockboxes more like trading cards would give them much longer longevity (Magic has been around for how long?) though.
Just an off-topic comment.
Cryptic doesnt want my money. That is fine.
How does releasing completely standalone lockboxes contribute to sustainability when the things contained within the lockboxes don't actually add anything? There are no missions, no episodes, no new content that come out of lockboxes (and frankly there would be an absolute ****storm of Cryptic even hinted that they were thinking about gating content behind a cash-shop lottery). All lockboxes do is function as a way for Cryptic to suck money out of their players with minimal effort.
That said they're not a big deal, I even spend money on keys once in a while, got a lot of doffs, some lobis, a couple of pretty useful consoles, mining claims, but no ships so far. I wish it were easier and cheaper to get lobis, I really want a Jem Dreadnaught, I want a full carrier and the Atrox just doesn't appeal to me and until they change the red light of death Klingon UI I can't bring myself to go the Klingon route.
Lock boxes are generating capital and that helps pay for the game and unlike some games that require you to pay for expansions and unlocks to basic game features, everything in this game is free if you play it the right way, you don't have to open lock boxes if you don't want to.
This is me and Lockboxes 100%. It is why I appreciate them.
But centersolace's idea is not a bad one at all.
What I like about Lockboxes:
* They are a completely optional part of this FREE-to-Play game. I do not have to spend money on them. I can ignore them entirely and still benefit from their income (from others).
* Lockbox opening can be free (to me) by using in-game methods to open them (Dil > Zen > MasterKeys -or- EC > Exchange > MasterKeys).
* They introduce new shineys to the game.
* I kind of like the buzz when you're just about to open one... That sense of surprise, hope, desire, risk and exhilaration.
What I wish they would improve / What I do not like about Lockboxes:
* Lockboxes should stack to 999. They do in Champions Online.
* Lockboxes should autoloot (automatically get picked-up). Obviously there needs to be an Option to not autoloot, and/or possibly auto-ignore.
* Lockbox mega prizes (such as ships) need to be trade/sellable after use. Vehicles and Become Devices in Champions Online are not bound when used and can be given away. Wouldn't it be great if we could use a Bug ship for a while for testing, or after we get bored of it, then we could box it up and trade it for the next new shiney? I'd be ok if there was a Dil or Lobi "repacking fee" associated with this mechanic.
* Cryptics unwillingness to post the actual reward odds does seem to lend a certain amount of underhandedness to process. I'm pretty sure I get why they don't (they want to maintain the illusion that it's easy to get the good stuff, makes it easier to hook gamblers, etc.), and that only adds to the sinister used-carsalesman smarm. Overall, I like Lockboxes, and I still feel dirty when I spend money on them. lol
* I hate the downer, "shame on me" feeling I get when I open a Lockbox and get shinola. :rolleyes:
* I hate the general air of vitriol and negativity Lockboxes have added to the forums.
* I understand that all businesses must spend the majority of their energy towards sustainability and profit, so I get why (it seems to me, at least) most Dev time goes towards Lockboxes... I do still wish they could spend more time adding "things to do" content (missions, exploration, adventure, minigames, etc.) instead of Lockbox fluff.
I concede that the negative list is longer than the positive, but the first two points of the Pros outweigh everything else.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
These three things all together would break the game.
1. Claim lockbox ship
2. Get console
3. Trade console
4. Reclaim lockbox ship
5. Cha-Ching. Repeat forever.
Of course the consoles would probably be bound to character on equip anyway. But those find their way into lockboxes too.
Another point is that the way the game is set up, they ALWAYS bind things that you can reclaim. You can trade, or you can reclaim. Not both, and my guess is that the game isn't set up to remove that "reclaim" flag if you could trade it away.
The way it is now works well enough. You can trade stuff away until you open the box and then after that you own it. They just need to put more stuff in reward boxes, is all. I agree that they should allow people to reclaim lockbox ships.
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Constructive and well written post. I also agree with the proposal.
A master key should be included as a possible box loot, it would lesson the bite of key expense if there were a possibility to win a free roll.
That's just lock boxes.
Cryptic would make considerable money on unbind tokens, players use high end gear that then goes to waste after they've moved on to something else and it would be great to have a means to unbind gear to make it possible to give or trade. There would need to be levels or limitations imposed to the ability to avoid creating a free revenue source from reclaimable items but even a token to convert bound to character to bound to account would be a huge convenience.
You know no such thing, mimey.
The EULA gives them the right to change any content at any time, whether you paid for it or not, and you have absolutely no recourse.
If you want to give him a reward make it 100 keys. 100 boxes is about 100k EC, lol
I wasn't referring to that.
I mean that cards can be lost, stolen, or de-valued for a number of reasons.
Stuff in this game, even if they were to make it worthless, at least I know it'll always still be there.
Nuts IMO
Ah, I understand now. Yes, it will all be here until the servers go dark