Furthermore, people want Retrofits of lowbie ships because they want to play them at high tier.
Plus, Mirror Universe ships ALSO get the prefix, the skin, and the CLASS SWAP. Again, SIGNIFICANT reasons for buying, and not "gimmicks" in any way.
Skin change is significant but a different carrier pet isn't? For example Escort Retrofit is almost exactly like Patrol Escort. I agree, roleplaying is SIGNIFICANT reason to get JHAS carrier pets too.
Frankly, you've only bolstered my case with your "counterexamples".
Threads like this are the reason many devs ignore (or have begun to ignore) their forums.
LOL. Like they ignored all those threads asking for retrofits and mirror ships? No, they actually listened and added them.
Skin change is significant but a different carrier pet isn't? For example Escort Retrofit is almost exactly like Patrol Escort. I agree, roleplaying is SIGNIFICANT reason to get JHAS carrier pets too.
LOL. Like they ignored all those threads asking for retrofits and mirror ships? No, they actually listened and added them.
A Different carrier pet is definitely significant, but my point is that you lot are treating it as if Cryptic has sold the Jammie Dread as THE ONE AND ONLY REASON TO EVER GET IT. That's flat-out WRONG.
I'm in no position to say whether or not the JDC is truly worth it for any OTHER reason (clearly you lot don't think so), but I CAN say that many of the whiners are ignoring the forest for the trees.
As for Cryptic releasing more retrofits and mirror ships based on forum demand, yes, we're lucky that they continue to listen in spite of moronic behavior like this thread. Other developers have simply stopped.
Can you help me by clarifying whether you are being disingenuous?
And you should clarify if you and those who share your complaints are being willfully ignorant...actually, never mind, it's already clear you are.
I already said that they make money indirectly when a player acquires a JHAS by normal means, but the actual exchange transaction means nothing to them. They either made their money when made your EC (if you sold Zen items for it, as some do), or when someone won the JHAS in the first place. But the act of buying a Bug on the exchange puts nothing in their pocket.
I'm done. There's no point trying to convince you. I can only hope your attitude doesn't infect anyone else playing this or any other game.
The problem here is that you're assuming the ONLY reason to buy a Jammie Dread is the ability to use Bugs as Hangar Pets.
No, I'm assuming that they tied the bugs to the ship as a reward for owning the Bug. Except that's a stupid thing to do for a science guy, and arguably for an engineer. I'm assuming that there is no other gear or ship in the entire game that requires you to own something FROM A LOCKBOX (caps since you can't seem to grasp this) in order to get the full effect.
Your examples are all strawmen; the Borg set just requires all the easily available Borg pieces, not something from a lockbox that's no longer available and that was very rare to begin with.
My point is that there is no purpose in bothering with deliberately crippled items. But since you bring it up...
I don't own one and can't speak to how cool or lame the default pets for it are (putting aside the fact that you can use whatever OTHER pets are compatible), but as far as I've read the Jammie Dread is far from a one-trick pony.
And there is the main problem I have with you saying anything at all. The Dread Carrier is garbage. It does not turn nearly fast enough to properly use cannons. It's vaunted HP don't matter if it has to spend all it's time trying to DPS since it's fighter complement is garbage. Not only that, but the BOFF setup is borked and it gets only an ensign sci slot...really? For a carrier?
So, while I'm sure in regular PvE it might be okay, it is not going to do much in STF's. And without a frigate-equiv , in PVP it's equally worthless.
TL;DR I'm not telling you what you should value when you buy your ships, but if you specifically choose to ignore the forest for the trees, that's not Cryptic's fault.
No, what you seem to be saying in all of your posts is that people should accept this garbage as equitable, and everyone else is telling you it isn't, and instead of countering points with logic for a ship you just admitted you have no idea how it plays you instead accuse people of entitlement.
As for your points:
1) Buying a ship for the value of owning the ship is basically called 'blowing your money on what you like'. That is not the argument. The argument is that the lack of the bug ship leaves one with no other incentive to buy the ship given that in all other aspects it's worse.
WITH the Bug ship, the Carrier is good.
WITHOUT the Bug ship, the Carrier offers nothing that other carriers don't as significantly lower costs.
2) Saying it was clearly stated that owning the Bug ship was a requirement for the pet is also not the problem. The problem is (and no one yet has come up with a decent explaination) that the move makes ZERO SENSE.
There are NO new sources of bug ships. There are NO new ways to get one. Cryptic isn't making ANY MONEY off of sales on the exchange of existing ships and there's been no motion on a new lockbox that will have them.
So , why would you even DO it? It literally benefits no one while pissing off everyone who doesn't own a bug.
3) Implying people are wrong to be upset about this is more of the usual Cryptic Defense Force fluff I expected back in the old days. The bottom line is that we've seen more than a few extremely bad decisions and blunders from the team. And every time, unless people scream their heads off, nothing changes.
800 lobi from just boxes is, roughly 15k ZEN. For that kind of investment you can get all 3 of the 3-ship packs. Yet your contention is that, for 800 lobi, the carrier that doesn't have a pet and is gimped with a slow turn rate, crappy shield modifer, less device slots, and underpowered 'special' console requires additional investment to get all the carrier offers, and complaining about that is entitlement?
WITH the Bug ship, the Carrier is good.
WITHOUT the Bug ship, the Carrier offers nothing that other carriers don't as significantly lower costs.
There are NO new sources of bug ships. There are NO new ways to get one. Cryptic isn't making ANY MONEY off of sales on the exchange of existing ships and there's been no motion on a new lockbox that will have them.
So , why would you even DO it? It literally benefits no one while pissing off everyone who doesn't own a bug.
OK, I'm back for one last time.
There's YOUR lack of logic right there. ALL your complaints are based on your opinion of the JD. As a non-owner of either I'm not in a position to say whether or not you're "objectively" right, but I am in a position to say that YOUR opinion - that the JD isn't worth the investment without the Bug pets - is not the only one that matters.
Ultimately it's up to the data Cryptic is gathering (that I doubt you are privy to) to prove whether the JD is truly worth the investment players are putting into it, with or without the Bug pets. And if as many people as you claim are truly whining their heads off, you probably have a point. At that point the ball is in Cryptic's court.
As for "benefiting no one", how about current JD owners that have EC or lockboxes to spare? How about Carrier players that are considering buying a bug off the exchange? The bonus benefits players that want BOTH (or intend to own BOTH). If you're not interested in owning BOTH the JD and JHAS, then it's not for you. It doesn't matter that the Bug ship is rare or not now, the benefit is for owners/purchasers of the Bug, NOT the non-owners. If that pisses you off, tough cookies. Whine on a forum.
If you were asking that the Bug be sold again or a new promo for it be started, you'd be reasonable. But you're just asking for something you don't have to be given to you because you don't have it. That's entitlement.
I own neither and have no intention of owning either, however as someone who spends allot of time in my Voquv, I would probably stop playing if they gated my BoP pets behind some expensive, rare, & unrealistic ownership req. This to my my mind is the same thing as the odd gating of that cute little bug, for a carrier driver? lol @ some peoples kids and ideas they come up with.
to be honest i wish i could roll back time and sell the dreadnought on the exchange, as after using it for awhile now i have come to notice how rubbish it is compared to other carrier ships
yes it is a nice looking ship but you need to spend an insane about of EC just to get it to be a good ship
if anyone gets one of the ships i would personally say sell the thing
It wont be moved because it would because it would acknowledge that the other Thread exists.
This was a bad business plan by Cryptic has I see it and even with 2 Threads and many post not one DEV has offered any comment on why this was done.
If this is a money grab move there are much better ways to make a buck.
The Hanger Attacks Ships could have been thrown into the Lobi store for 260 - 300 Lobi, this option would have still been upsetting to most that own the Dreadnought but at least it would have been a hell of a lot more reasonable than what they did.
It's a good thing that the Ultra Rare Scorpion Fighters exist or the Dreanought Carrier would be a near pointless oversized Escort.
It's a good thing that the Ultra Rare Scorpion Fighters exist or the Dreanought Carrier would be a near pointless oversized Escort.
How is it not? I can mount those scorps in a Recluse and get more bang for my buck, or an Atrox and get more sci power.
I'm sure someone will argue that you can make it good. But you're spending 800 lobi (which is an obscene amount of zen to get or an equally obscene amount of EC to blow) on something where you then have to sink an additional amount of time and effort on the scorps or half a billion EC on the Bugship....
Ah well. I'm done arguing, but I'm certainly not spending anymore cash in the C-store, let them track that metric.
Comments
Skin change is significant but a different carrier pet isn't? For example Escort Retrofit is almost exactly like Patrol Escort. I agree, roleplaying is SIGNIFICANT reason to get JHAS carrier pets too.
LOL. Like they ignored all those threads asking for retrofits and mirror ships? No, they actually listened and added them.
Can you help me by clarifying whether you are being disingenuous? I have a hard time detecting that.
A Different carrier pet is definitely significant, but my point is that you lot are treating it as if Cryptic has sold the Jammie Dread as THE ONE AND ONLY REASON TO EVER GET IT. That's flat-out WRONG.
I'm in no position to say whether or not the JDC is truly worth it for any OTHER reason (clearly you lot don't think so), but I CAN say that many of the whiners are ignoring the forest for the trees.
As for Cryptic releasing more retrofits and mirror ships based on forum demand, yes, we're lucky that they continue to listen in spite of moronic behavior like this thread. Other developers have simply stopped.
And you should clarify if you and those who share your complaints are being willfully ignorant...actually, never mind, it's already clear you are.
I already said that they make money indirectly when a player acquires a JHAS by normal means, but the actual exchange transaction means nothing to them. They either made their money when made your EC (if you sold Zen items for it, as some do), or when someone won the JHAS in the first place. But the act of buying a Bug on the exchange puts nothing in their pocket.
I'm done. There's no point trying to convince you. I can only hope your attitude doesn't infect anyone else playing this or any other game.
No, I'm assuming that they tied the bugs to the ship as a reward for owning the Bug. Except that's a stupid thing to do for a science guy, and arguably for an engineer. I'm assuming that there is no other gear or ship in the entire game that requires you to own something FROM A LOCKBOX (caps since you can't seem to grasp this) in order to get the full effect.
Your examples are all strawmen; the Borg set just requires all the easily available Borg pieces, not something from a lockbox that's no longer available and that was very rare to begin with.
My point is that there is no purpose in bothering with deliberately crippled items. But since you bring it up...
And there is the main problem I have with you saying anything at all. The Dread Carrier is garbage. It does not turn nearly fast enough to properly use cannons. It's vaunted HP don't matter if it has to spend all it's time trying to DPS since it's fighter complement is garbage. Not only that, but the BOFF setup is borked and it gets only an ensign sci slot...really? For a carrier?
So, while I'm sure in regular PvE it might be okay, it is not going to do much in STF's. And without a frigate-equiv , in PVP it's equally worthless.
It isn't worth the investment.
No, what you seem to be saying in all of your posts is that people should accept this garbage as equitable, and everyone else is telling you it isn't, and instead of countering points with logic for a ship you just admitted you have no idea how it plays you instead accuse people of entitlement.
As for your points:
1) Buying a ship for the value of owning the ship is basically called 'blowing your money on what you like'. That is not the argument. The argument is that the lack of the bug ship leaves one with no other incentive to buy the ship given that in all other aspects it's worse.
WITH the Bug ship, the Carrier is good.
WITHOUT the Bug ship, the Carrier offers nothing that other carriers don't as significantly lower costs.
2) Saying it was clearly stated that owning the Bug ship was a requirement for the pet is also not the problem. The problem is (and no one yet has come up with a decent explaination) that the move makes ZERO SENSE.
There are NO new sources of bug ships. There are NO new ways to get one. Cryptic isn't making ANY MONEY off of sales on the exchange of existing ships and there's been no motion on a new lockbox that will have them.
So , why would you even DO it? It literally benefits no one while pissing off everyone who doesn't own a bug.
3) Implying people are wrong to be upset about this is more of the usual Cryptic Defense Force fluff I expected back in the old days. The bottom line is that we've seen more than a few extremely bad decisions and blunders from the team. And every time, unless people scream their heads off, nothing changes.
800 lobi from just boxes is, roughly 15k ZEN. For that kind of investment you can get all 3 of the 3-ship packs. Yet your contention is that, for 800 lobi, the carrier that doesn't have a pet and is gimped with a slow turn rate, crappy shield modifer, less device slots, and underpowered 'special' console requires additional investment to get all the carrier offers, and complaining about that is entitlement?
OK, I'm back for one last time.
There's YOUR lack of logic right there. ALL your complaints are based on your opinion of the JD. As a non-owner of either I'm not in a position to say whether or not you're "objectively" right, but I am in a position to say that YOUR opinion - that the JD isn't worth the investment without the Bug pets - is not the only one that matters.
Ultimately it's up to the data Cryptic is gathering (that I doubt you are privy to) to prove whether the JD is truly worth the investment players are putting into it, with or without the Bug pets. And if as many people as you claim are truly whining their heads off, you probably have a point. At that point the ball is in Cryptic's court.
As for "benefiting no one", how about current JD owners that have EC or lockboxes to spare? How about Carrier players that are considering buying a bug off the exchange? The bonus benefits players that want BOTH (or intend to own BOTH). If you're not interested in owning BOTH the JD and JHAS, then it's not for you. It doesn't matter that the Bug ship is rare or not now, the benefit is for owners/purchasers of the Bug, NOT the non-owners. If that pisses you off, tough cookies. Whine on a forum.
If you were asking that the Bug be sold again or a new promo for it be started, you'd be reasonable. But you're just asking for something you don't have to be given to you because you don't have it. That's entitlement.
IMO, the JDC is pretty nice, even without the bugship pets.
yes it is a nice looking ship but you need to spend an insane about of EC just to get it to be a good ship
if anyone gets one of the ships i would personally say sell the thing
It wont be moved because it would because it would acknowledge that the other Thread exists.
This was a bad business plan by Cryptic has I see it and even with 2 Threads and many post not one DEV has offered any comment on why this was done.
If this is a money grab move there are much better ways to make a buck.
The Hanger Attacks Ships could have been thrown into the Lobi store for 260 - 300 Lobi, this option would have still been upsetting to most that own the Dreadnought but at least it would have been a hell of a lot more reasonable than what they did.
It's a good thing that the Ultra Rare Scorpion Fighters exist or the Dreanought Carrier would be a near pointless oversized Escort.
How is it not? I can mount those scorps in a Recluse and get more bang for my buck, or an Atrox and get more sci power.
I'm sure someone will argue that you can make it good. But you're spending 800 lobi (which is an obscene amount of zen to get or an equally obscene amount of EC to blow) on something where you then have to sink an additional amount of time and effort on the scorps or half a billion EC on the Bugship....
Ah well. I'm done arguing, but I'm certainly not spending anymore cash in the C-store, let them track that metric.