When you signed up for this game you agreed that Cryptic had the right to make reasonable adjustments to all purchased items.
Say what you want, but cyptic loses customers with this sort of thing. Most companies when they make a huge adjustment to items paid for refund or compensate in some way. That is not happening because only KDF players paid for bio-neural and no one cares about the KDF. When Feds complained about TDD its acknowledged and getting a fix.
BTW don't get to cozy in the TOS, if they are adjusting to take your money in exchange for fool's gold on purpose, the TOS wouldn't last a day. That's no different then selling a new car to a customer that the dealer knows has an inherent flaw and breaks down the next day.
In cyptic's defense, they don't seem to have a clue what they are doing with the nerf bat. Like a blind 10 year old swinging at the pinata. :P
As I had said in my original post, no-one want to touch Cryptics right to make some small adjustments to optimize the balancing, but the nerf of items into the uselessness shall be stopped.
The tricobalt mines and torp aren't useless, but their mechanics have changed. They aren't a great spike damage tool anymore, it's now a minor spike damage tool with some ability to do pressure damage instead. Different doesn't mean it sucks.
I think you're a bit unfair. Any ship can use trico mines. And the main purpose of the JHEC isn't supposed to be a mine layer - a Kar'fi would be a better one for instance. It's one possibility, not the only one.
If the turnrate or hull was reduced then your claims would be completely legitimate, because you would be stuck with a nerfed ship, but in this case you only need to think about another build, as any other tricobalt on escort user has to. Trico mines are a free item, so are cannons and torps.
Overally, what your say is legitimate, nerfing paid items is annoying for us since we can't get a refund but again your item wasn't nerfed, your very own build was, and you would have to think about another one even if you were flying a free captain level defiant. But for now, lockbox and c-store items are safe. The Jem'hadar bug has never been nerfed, in spite of the unending complaints on the pvp subforums, and caitians and ferasan got a very little nerf recently, and it's doublftul that devs will go further, fortunately. I really can't remember a major nerf on store items but i may be wrong.
Say what you want, but cyptic loses customers with this sort of thing. Most companies when they make a huge adjustment to items paid for refund or compensate in some way. That is not happening because only KDF players paid for bio-neural and no one cares about the KDF. When Feds complained about TDD its acknowledged and getting a fix.
BTW don't get to cozy in the TOS, if they are adjusting to take your money in exchange for fool's gold on purpose, the TOS wouldn't last a day. That's no different then selling a new car to a customer that the dealer knows has an inherent flaw and breaks down the next day.
In cyptic's defense, they don't seem to have a clue what they are doing with the nerf bat. Like a blind 10 year old swinging at the pinata. :P
You claim amounts to nothing more than speculation. I, for instance, have not spent a dime on this game since free to play because Cryptic/PWE has steadily introduced a power creep, rendering my older purchases less useful. If they ever adjust gameplay to make newer ships like the Odyssey, Vesta, and the Jem'Hadar attack ship more on-par with older purchases such as the Galaxy, Intrepid, and Defiant, I may spend money on this game again because it will restore my faith that they value their existing customers.
And your analogy is false. Cryptic is not in the business of selling cars. They are in the business of selling gameplay, and when that gameplay is unbalanced or unfair they need to fix what is unbalancing it, regardless of whether it is an item that is provided gratis or something which can be purchased for real dollars.
If Cryptic is never going to fix an OP ship simply because it is a player purchase, then they should just give up any pretense of balance and sell power directly, like 5 minutes of 100% DPS output or 5 minutes of 1000% shield increases for 500 Cryptic points.
It's a for-profit business and as such they'll do what they decide is in the best interest of the bottom line. The "Sell for cash, wait until sales rates drop, nerf, release (and sell for cash) new product that puts nerfed players back where they were" cycle works in the F2P MicroT world.
It's a proven money maker and if any of you think PWE is in any other business than the business of making money, you're being naive.
I thought that I read somewhere that the tricobalt nerf was unintentional and that it would be fixed. (I might be wrong?. Going to try and find that particular dev response now)?
You claim amounts to nothing more than speculation. I, for instance, have not spent a dime on this game since free to play because Cryptic/PWE has steadily introduced a power creep, rendering my older purchases less useful. If they ever adjust gameplay to make newer ships like the Odyssey, Vesta, and the Jem'Hadar attack ship more on-par with older purchases such as the Galaxy, Intrepid, and Defiant, I may spend money on this game again because it will restore my faith that they value their existing customers.
What? I'm not proposing a new theory of relativity here. Its basic salesmanship 101. Customers don't come back if you sell a product knowing that it won't work or plan to nerf it in the future. Go get a retail job and tell me I'm wrong. I'm sure your going to be salesman of the year for five years straight and tell me I'm wrong. :P That would you even suggest its speculation on my part to think selling a crappy product that breaks right after you buy it would not anger customers to never come back, is laughable. Bio-Neural wasn't out moded, it was ruined by a poor dev decision.
And your analogy is false. Cryptic is not in the business of selling cars. They are in the business of selling gameplay, and when that gameplay is unbalanced or unfair they need to fix what is unbalancing it, regardless of whether it is an item that is provided gratis or something which can be purchased for real dollars.
My analogy describes the situation and if you want to lecture me on implied warranty of merchantability, discuss that. Don't try to separate logic because cryptic sells gameplay instead of cars. The product was labelled as "it does this" and now it does't do this. You also completely missed the whole part about mines and torpedos are not the same, that torpedos were weak and rarely used by players, etc. So you can't argue that the tric torpedoes NEEDED to be nerfed for gameplay when its was the MINES that there were issues with.
If Cryptic is never going to fix an OP ship simply because it is a player purchase, then they should just give up any pretense of balance and sell power directly, like 5 minutes of 100% DPS output or 5 minutes of 1000% shield increases for 500 Cryptic points.
Who said never fix? Your nitpicking arguments from the entire board and trying to pin them on my post. Neither I nor the OP said never fix at all. The Bio-Neural has been around for months before i grabbed it and it was not a wonder weapon nor complained about in the forums. I do not care what happens to mines of regular tric torps, b/c they were not paid for by anyone. TDD and BN are entirely different issues and Cryptic should tread carefully when adjusting paid for items. Don't apologize for WTF nerfing across the board because it's easier than actually addressing the issue.
Why does the community on this forum always try to hunt down people who just mention their thoughts and feelings?
Maybe the data in the OP was not totally correct, maybe he could have calmed down a bit before typing his opinion.
But what is important to me is the main message in it. Another captain feels cheated, another player is left behind sad, maybe another PWE customer is about to leave and close his wallet forever.
This hurts us all. Less income for PWE could cause higher prizes, makes the game feel more empty. He could have been the ship that healed you in a STF. He could have been the member of your fleet who spends the last missing dili to start a project.
Every sad player, for whatever reason, is a loss for all of us!
Why does the community on this forum always try to hunt down people who just mention their thoughts and feelings?
Maybe the data in the OP was not totally correct, maybe he could have calmed down a bit before typing his opinion.
But what is important to me is the main message in it. Another captain feels cheated, another player is left behind sad, maybe another PWE customer is about to leave and close his wallet forever.
This hurts us all. Less income for PWE could cause higher prizes, makes the game feel more empty. He could have been the ship that healed you in a STF. He could have been the member of your fleet who spends the last missing dili to start a project.
Every sad player, for whatever reason, is a loss for all of us!
Completely agree.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Why does the community on this forum always try to hunt down people who just mention their thoughts and feelings?
Maybe the data in the OP was not totally correct, maybe he could have calmed down a bit before typing his opinion.
But what is important to me is the main message in it. Another captain feels cheated, another player is left behind sad, maybe another PWE customer is about to leave and close his wallet forever.
This hurts us all. Less income for PWE could cause higher prizes, makes the game feel more empty. He could have been the ship that healed you in a STF. He could have been the member of your fleet who spends the last missing dili to start a project.
Every sad player, for whatever reason, is a loss for all of us!
Meh. Feeling bad doesn't mean you're right. It's not an excuse either. It's a fact for sure but it can change with some logic and some explanations. No one insulted him. Actually i don't like when people claim they should be heard unconditionnaly because they're suffering in some way. Suffering gives you no right.
Customers don't come back if you sell a product knowing that it won't work or plan to nerf it in the future.
Tell this to Blizzard - the makers of the 8 year old MMO "World of War Craft (space added to prevent name censorship from activating) -- they nerf and balance their game routinely -- leading to outcrys on their public forums that would make this latest Forum outrage look like a love fest; yet fluctuate up and down by a million or so players (meaning they do leave and return) -- yet the game still boast 9 million+ subscriptions (with plenty of microtransactions on the side.)
An MMOs are true retail to begin with in that all anyone has ever purchased is the right to use a particular item (design by Cryptic) for the lifetime of this game. When the game finally does shut down (be it 5 years or 15 years from now) we'll LOSE all access to any in game items we've bought -- and won't be receiving a refund.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
FYI, I am running a jem HEC as a heavy trico bomber, which worked nicely in STF and half-way (but acceptable) in pvp. It was really fun to fly this ship.
After your genious trico-nerf I can throw it away now, as it became pretty useless. Half usable in STF and fully useless for pvp, as with the low dmg output peaks even escorts dont have to fear the tricos any more.
Useless, worthless and it was expensive to get it and outfit it. Well done guys.....
If you feel, like you need to nerf something tomorrow, go and take the ambassador ship or other free stuff, which no-one would care about. But hands off from the real-money items. :mad:
Tric bomber..... derrr...... Flavor of the month builds always cost you in the end. If it's not Cryptic nerfing, it's the gaming community coming up with a good counter strategy. The fault is yours and yours only for doing it.
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Why does the community on this forum always try to hunt down people who just mention their thoughts and feelings?
Maybe the data in the OP was not totally correct, maybe he could have calmed down a bit before typing his opinion.
But what is important to me is the main message in it. Another captain feels cheated, another player is left behind sad, maybe another PWE customer is about to leave and close his wallet forever.
This hurts us all. Less income for PWE could cause higher prizes, makes the game feel more empty. He could have been the ship that healed you in a STF. He could have been the member of your fleet who spends the last missing dili to start a project.
Every sad player, for whatever reason, is a loss for all of us!
Agreed also,
Peope have easy talking when something is nerved what they dont use themselves. Imagine your favorite skill brought down 50%, than imagine you complaining about it on the forums.
Finally imagine you being laughed at, not taken seriously in any way.
Comments
Say what you want, but cyptic loses customers with this sort of thing. Most companies when they make a huge adjustment to items paid for refund or compensate in some way. That is not happening because only KDF players paid for bio-neural and no one cares about the KDF. When Feds complained about TDD its acknowledged and getting a fix.
BTW don't get to cozy in the TOS, if they are adjusting to take your money in exchange for fool's gold on purpose, the TOS wouldn't last a day. That's no different then selling a new car to a customer that the dealer knows has an inherent flaw and breaks down the next day.
In cyptic's defense, they don't seem to have a clue what they are doing with the nerf bat. Like a blind 10 year old swinging at the pinata. :P
The tricobalt mines and torp aren't useless, but their mechanics have changed. They aren't a great spike damage tool anymore, it's now a minor spike damage tool with some ability to do pressure damage instead. Different doesn't mean it sucks.
I think you're a bit unfair. Any ship can use trico mines. And the main purpose of the JHEC isn't supposed to be a mine layer - a Kar'fi would be a better one for instance. It's one possibility, not the only one.
If the turnrate or hull was reduced then your claims would be completely legitimate, because you would be stuck with a nerfed ship, but in this case you only need to think about another build, as any other tricobalt on escort user has to. Trico mines are a free item, so are cannons and torps.
Overally, what your say is legitimate, nerfing paid items is annoying for us since we can't get a refund but again your item wasn't nerfed, your very own build was, and you would have to think about another one even if you were flying a free captain level defiant. But for now, lockbox and c-store items are safe. The Jem'hadar bug has never been nerfed, in spite of the unending complaints on the pvp subforums, and caitians and ferasan got a very little nerf recently, and it's doublftul that devs will go further, fortunately. I really can't remember a major nerf on store items but i may be wrong.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
You claim amounts to nothing more than speculation. I, for instance, have not spent a dime on this game since free to play because Cryptic/PWE has steadily introduced a power creep, rendering my older purchases less useful. If they ever adjust gameplay to make newer ships like the Odyssey, Vesta, and the Jem'Hadar attack ship more on-par with older purchases such as the Galaxy, Intrepid, and Defiant, I may spend money on this game again because it will restore my faith that they value their existing customers.
And your analogy is false. Cryptic is not in the business of selling cars. They are in the business of selling gameplay, and when that gameplay is unbalanced or unfair they need to fix what is unbalancing it, regardless of whether it is an item that is provided gratis or something which can be purchased for real dollars.
If Cryptic is never going to fix an OP ship simply because it is a player purchase, then they should just give up any pretense of balance and sell power directly, like 5 minutes of 100% DPS output or 5 minutes of 1000% shield increases for 500 Cryptic points.
It's a for-profit business and as such they'll do what they decide is in the best interest of the bottom line. The "Sell for cash, wait until sales rates drop, nerf, release (and sell for cash) new product that puts nerfed players back where they were" cycle works in the F2P MicroT world.
It's a proven money maker and if any of you think PWE is in any other business than the business of making money, you're being naive.
What?
My analogy describes the situation and if you want to lecture me on implied warranty of merchantability, discuss that. Don't try to separate logic because cryptic sells gameplay instead of cars. The product was labelled as "it does this" and now it does't do this. You also completely missed the whole part about mines and torpedos are not the same, that torpedos were weak and rarely used by players, etc. So you can't argue that the tric torpedoes NEEDED to be nerfed for gameplay when its was the MINES that there were issues with.
Who said never fix? Your nitpicking arguments from the entire board and trying to pin them on my post. Neither I nor the OP said never fix at all. The Bio-Neural has been around for months before i grabbed it and it was not a wonder weapon nor complained about in the forums. I do not care what happens to mines of regular tric torps, b/c they were not paid for by anyone. TDD and BN are entirely different issues and Cryptic should tread carefully when adjusting paid for items. Don't apologize for WTF nerfing across the board because it's easier than actually addressing the issue.
Good for doctors AND developers to know and practice.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Maybe the data in the OP was not totally correct, maybe he could have calmed down a bit before typing his opinion.
But what is important to me is the main message in it. Another captain feels cheated, another player is left behind sad, maybe another PWE customer is about to leave and close his wallet forever.
This hurts us all. Less income for PWE could cause higher prizes, makes the game feel more empty. He could have been the ship that healed you in a STF. He could have been the member of your fleet who spends the last missing dili to start a project.
Every sad player, for whatever reason, is a loss for all of us!
Completely agree.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Meh. Feeling bad doesn't mean you're right. It's not an excuse either. It's a fact for sure but it can change with some logic and some explanations. No one insulted him. Actually i don't like when people claim they should be heard unconditionnaly because they're suffering in some way. Suffering gives you no right.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Tell this to Blizzard - the makers of the 8 year old MMO "World of War Craft (space added to prevent name censorship from activating) -- they nerf and balance their game routinely -- leading to outcrys on their public forums that would make this latest Forum outrage look like a love fest; yet fluctuate up and down by a million or so players (meaning they do leave and return) -- yet the game still boast 9 million+ subscriptions (with plenty of microtransactions on the side.)
An MMOs are true retail to begin with in that all anyone has ever purchased is the right to use a particular item (design by Cryptic) for the lifetime of this game. When the game finally does shut down (be it 5 years or 15 years from now) we'll LOSE all access to any in game items we've bought -- and won't be receiving a refund.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Tric bomber..... derrr...... Flavor of the month builds always cost you in the end. If it's not Cryptic nerfing, it's the gaming community coming up with a good counter strategy. The fault is yours and yours only for doing it.
Agreed also,
Peope have easy talking when something is nerved what they dont use themselves. Imagine your favorite skill brought down 50%, than imagine you complaining about it on the forums.
Finally imagine you being laughed at, not taken seriously in any way.
Replies only to attack or hurt people with no additional value whatsoever.