test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
The Ultimate Proposal for Ship and Class Balance
icegavel
Member Posts: 991 Arc User
I don't remember whose signature it is, but someone floating around on these forums has a signature saying "Balance: Coming soon(tm) since Season 1.2." This is true. This game needs a HUGE balance pass (big enough to warrant it as a Season). Tactical Officers reign supreme, you get laughed at if you're not flying an Escort, and PvE is the biggest and least funny joke since "Where's Sulu." This is bad. So, let's take a look at some of the BIGGEST sticking points. I won't get to ALL of them, clearly, there are FAR too many. If there IS something I miss, feel free to speak up. Feedback on these changes is also welcome.
CONTENTS
Section 1: Space Ships
SECTION ONE: SPACE SHIPS
Subsection One: Intro
There is the MASSIVE discrepancy in ship classes. Unless you can set up a build and equipment set that shatters the game, or if you're really sentimental about a specific ship class, you fly an Escort. There's two big reasons for this:
1: Cruisers and Science Vessels are incredibly underpowered because of their BOff setups, turn rate, or weapon loading capability.
2: The raw power of stacking DHCs and Cannon powers turns the game into a game of look at an enemy, blink, and wonder where they and their 20 friends had gone to.
There are a few ways this could be fixed. The summary is to either buff Cruisers and Sci Ships or nerf Escorts. But I've never seen anyone propose the smartest idea: Both. If you JUST buff Cruisers/Scis, everything in the game becomes super broken powerful and nothing has meaning. If you JUST nerf Escorts, they'll be worthless, no one will play them, and everyone will complain because there will be no fun left. So, do both, but only half as much. Cruisers and Sci Ships become more fun to play, Escorts don't break the universe, and everyone complains less. Let's dive in.
Subsection Two: Cruisers
I'll start with my personal favorite ship type: Cruisers. These have been the subject of many a speculative balance suggestion here. I'm particularly fond of the suggestion having to do with a Beam rework (which would add Heavy Beam Arrays and Dual Heavy Beam Banks - See This Thread; and its Sequel), since it ties in well with my Escort nerf. But, that wouldn't be the end of my buff schedule. There needs to be a type of beam array on par with Dual Heavy Cannons (and subject to the restrictions that I'll go into in great detain in the Escort sub-section). Since this would also benefit Science Vessels to some extent, this helps there (though not as much). Also up to bat is a simple one: A global 10% buff to the turn rate of all Cruisers. Many are too slow, and several starships (namely the Armitage and the Vesta) are just as big as some Cruisers and turn 2-3 times as well. They are simply TOO slow to be effective.
Subsection Three: Escorts
Next is the Escort nerf. I choose to write this second because my solution for Science Vessels is more complex than just Science Vessels (since the big issue with them is that Science BOff powers are underpowered as well). The big problem with Escorts is the Dual Heavy Cannons. They're way over-the-top. Escorts would not be NEARLY as broken without them. Well, that's kind of what I want. I'm not removing DHCs, mind you. But, they ARE getting hit. First, I'm proposing a 5% reduction in their damage. Doesn't sound bad,because that's not the worst one. Second, and far larger, I'm proposing a cap on the number of Dual Cannons/Dual Heavy Cannons per ship - 2 per vessel (1 DHC and 1 DC, or 2 DCs, or 2 DHCs - Quad Cannons count towards the DHC limit). This prevents ships from quadrupling DHCs (or using 3 and a torp) and ravaging ships as hard, while making Cannon powers still relevant. Note, Single Cannons and Turrets do NOT count towards that limit, as they can be mounted on any ship (I know a guy that ran a MEAN DP-Odyssey with Single Cannons). This reduces the damage on Escorts, but not so much so that they're useless while, but the same token, the aforementioned Heavy Beams (which, as I said, would be restricted to the same equip limits as the DCs/DHCs - 2 per ship) increase the other ship types' damage.
Subsection Four: Science Vessels
Third up is Science Vessels. Since the Heavy Beams and Dual Beams are non-Escort weapons (Escorts cannot use them, other classes can), their damage has been buffed by the above. Problem is, that's not the biggest issue with Science Vessels. The biggest issue is Science BOff powers (which needs a revamp - others have called for it, the devs agreed, and it goes nowhere). This sub-section is devoted to my ideas for those revamps. I'll start with the BOff power that no one knows exists (it's that useless) - Photonic Officer. Right now, it reduces BOff cooldowns. That's all. The cooldown is 3 minutes, the recharge speedup is worthless (BOff powers have low cooldowns as-is). It does NOTHING else. So, I want to buff it and make it a viable alternative. The complete rework is just that: Complete. The essence is still the same, but now it's useful. The buff duration is the same (60 seconds), but the cooldown goes down to 120 seconds (Same as RSP). It now affects ALL cooldowns (Captain and Console powers included), as well as doing a Crew (increasing base hull repair) and Crew Regen buff. The cooldown reduction would go up to 20/30/40% for I/II/III (now it's 19/24/28%) and would go up to 25/33/50% with maxed Photonic skills. This is designed to make it useful, far more than it is now, and to be viable in combat. Next is the secondleast popular Science power: Charged Particle Burst. Basically, my new version of this is a boosted damage variant with a damage resistance debuff tacked on. This change would also translate into the Antiproton Sweep power, slightly amplified (because it's all 360 in a 90-degree firing arc, and because you have to use specific equipment to get it). That's all I've thought up, but there are more that could be done.
Subsection 5: General Ship Improvements
Finally is a component that I've thrown around before: Shuttlebays. Basically, this is a hangar rework. This idea is evolved from last I put it on the forums. Now, all hangar pets can only support one wing per hangar (as opposed to two now). Current Cruisers would then get two more Hangar slots (Heavy Escort Carriers up to 3, Carriers to 4), then adding 2 for the Cruisers and 1 for the Science Vessels, allowing them to use their shuttlebays for support. As each hangar can now only use 1 wing, Carriers lose nothing, but Cruisers/Science Vessels get a bit more ability (considering they're big enough to have a full shuttelbay or two), and HECs get a small buff. This allows the non-Escorts, which would already be buffed a little, to be on-par with Escorts, albeit with a different set-up, while reducing the increase in "pet spam."
SECTION TWO: CLASS REBALANCE
Subsection One: Intro
By far the most popular character class is the Tactical Officer. This, as I see it, is for a number of reasons. First, Tactical Officer powers are incredibly powerful (ground AND space). Second, Science Officers, when you see them, can't come up to par with either of the others (which saddens me, I love my Science Officers). Third is that Engineers, while fun, simply don't have the power to come up to par. However, before I cover the rebalance, I'm going to touch on a semi-related change which is simply a common sense thing: The Romulan Featured Mission "Coliseum." The career-specific objectives for Tactical and Engineering would be swapped. Engineers build the fire, Tactical officers go hunting. It makes no sense how it is now. How are Engineers better hunters and Tactical Officers better at building a fire? So, this is a simple content swap. Now that my half-tyrade on that is over, let's jump into class rebalance.
Subsection Two: Science Officers
I start with Science Officers because they are near and dear to me.My main character, my oldest character, is my Fed Science Officer (see my signature). They have the potential to be a lot of fun, but it's not there. In the current state of the game, the only kit worthwhile is the Medic kit for two reasons. First is that the other Science Kits are... well, underpowered. The debuffs aren't strong, there's no damage power, and non-Heal powers have longer cooldowns. Second, and possibly BECAUSE of the first, if you're not healer as a Sci, you get yelled at in all situations. "Why are you not healing us?" "I'm not a healer." "WHY NOT?!" "Because I don't want to be." "TOO BAD. HEAL US." It's awful. So, Science Officers need to get a buff. A big buff. With damage. I don't really know how to do this, but it needs to be done. Also, some of their Captain powers needs to be looked at (Sonic Pulse does NOTHING, I've tested it, many of the others aren't worth the time).
Subsection Three: Engineering Officers
Engineers are fun. There's no denying that. Turrets and mortars and gens oh MY! But, there's a problem with this. All of their damage is positional, and most of their support powers (Equipment Diagnostics, Quick Fix, and especially Combat Supply) are next to worthless. In PvP, it's hard to lure players. In PvE, it's next to IMPOSSIBLE. The AI is more eager to get stuck in a wall. So, I'd like some ability to take their traps on the go. In space, their powers are mostly self-support. While this is great for tanks and SOME DPS builds (Engineer Escorts are actually kinda powerful, and not as squishy). There is, however, some room for a little bit of more direct offensive power. However, at least in space, I'd have to say Engineers are probably the best balanced of them all.
Subsection Four: Tactical Officers
I like my "Tactical" Officers. I so much as look at an enemy wrong and I wonder where it went and why there'sonly a dust cloud where he had been. This is a ton of fun. But it's FAR too easy. A fully buffed Tactical DP-Escort can LITERALLY one-volley-kill NPCs (I hear players take an extra two or three volleys). Playing a Tactical Officer in this game is saying "I don't feel like having a challenge. Let's just kill stuff." That's no good. A game isn't fun if it's easy. Also, it's becoming less and less TACTICAL and more brute force smash-em-ups. Tactical Officers should be more tactical. Right now, the only tactic is "FIRE EVERYTHING." So, I say Tacs need a rework to make them live up to the namesake. They could get a BIT of a nerf, since they ARE a little too over-the-top, but mostly it's the fact that there's too much brute force. You're a Tactical Officer, not an Assault Squad Officer.
So, feedback? Questions? Comments? Speak. I listen.
CONTENTS
Section 1: Space Ships
- Subsection 1: Intro
- Subsection 2: Cruisers
- Subsection 3: Escorts
- Subsection 4: Science Vessels
- Subsection 5: General Ship Improvements
- Subsection 1: Intro
- Subsection 2: Science Officers
- Subsection 3: Engineering Officers
- Subsection 4: Tactical Officers
SECTION ONE: SPACE SHIPS
Subsection One: Intro
There is the MASSIVE discrepancy in ship classes. Unless you can set up a build and equipment set that shatters the game, or if you're really sentimental about a specific ship class, you fly an Escort. There's two big reasons for this:
1: Cruisers and Science Vessels are incredibly underpowered because of their BOff setups, turn rate, or weapon loading capability.
2: The raw power of stacking DHCs and Cannon powers turns the game into a game of look at an enemy, blink, and wonder where they and their 20 friends had gone to.
There are a few ways this could be fixed. The summary is to either buff Cruisers and Sci Ships or nerf Escorts. But I've never seen anyone propose the smartest idea: Both. If you JUST buff Cruisers/Scis, everything in the game becomes super broken powerful and nothing has meaning. If you JUST nerf Escorts, they'll be worthless, no one will play them, and everyone will complain because there will be no fun left. So, do both, but only half as much. Cruisers and Sci Ships become more fun to play, Escorts don't break the universe, and everyone complains less. Let's dive in.
Subsection Two: Cruisers
I'll start with my personal favorite ship type: Cruisers. These have been the subject of many a speculative balance suggestion here. I'm particularly fond of the suggestion having to do with a Beam rework (which would add Heavy Beam Arrays and Dual Heavy Beam Banks - See This Thread; and its Sequel), since it ties in well with my Escort nerf. But, that wouldn't be the end of my buff schedule. There needs to be a type of beam array on par with Dual Heavy Cannons (and subject to the restrictions that I'll go into in great detain in the Escort sub-section). Since this would also benefit Science Vessels to some extent, this helps there (though not as much). Also up to bat is a simple one: A global 10% buff to the turn rate of all Cruisers. Many are too slow, and several starships (namely the Armitage and the Vesta) are just as big as some Cruisers and turn 2-3 times as well. They are simply TOO slow to be effective.
Subsection Three: Escorts
Next is the Escort nerf. I choose to write this second because my solution for Science Vessels is more complex than just Science Vessels (since the big issue with them is that Science BOff powers are underpowered as well). The big problem with Escorts is the Dual Heavy Cannons. They're way over-the-top. Escorts would not be NEARLY as broken without them. Well, that's kind of what I want. I'm not removing DHCs, mind you. But, they ARE getting hit. First, I'm proposing a 5% reduction in their damage. Doesn't sound bad,because that's not the worst one. Second, and far larger, I'm proposing a cap on the number of Dual Cannons/Dual Heavy Cannons per ship - 2 per vessel (1 DHC and 1 DC, or 2 DCs, or 2 DHCs - Quad Cannons count towards the DHC limit). This prevents ships from quadrupling DHCs (or using 3 and a torp) and ravaging ships as hard, while making Cannon powers still relevant. Note, Single Cannons and Turrets do NOT count towards that limit, as they can be mounted on any ship (I know a guy that ran a MEAN DP-Odyssey with Single Cannons). This reduces the damage on Escorts, but not so much so that they're useless while, but the same token, the aforementioned Heavy Beams (which, as I said, would be restricted to the same equip limits as the DCs/DHCs - 2 per ship) increase the other ship types' damage.
Subsection Four: Science Vessels
Third up is Science Vessels. Since the Heavy Beams and Dual Beams are non-Escort weapons (Escorts cannot use them, other classes can), their damage has been buffed by the above. Problem is, that's not the biggest issue with Science Vessels. The biggest issue is Science BOff powers (which needs a revamp - others have called for it, the devs agreed, and it goes nowhere). This sub-section is devoted to my ideas for those revamps. I'll start with the BOff power that no one knows exists (it's that useless) - Photonic Officer. Right now, it reduces BOff cooldowns. That's all. The cooldown is 3 minutes, the recharge speedup is worthless (BOff powers have low cooldowns as-is). It does NOTHING else. So, I want to buff it and make it a viable alternative. The complete rework is just that: Complete. The essence is still the same, but now it's useful. The buff duration is the same (60 seconds), but the cooldown goes down to 120 seconds (Same as RSP). It now affects ALL cooldowns (Captain and Console powers included), as well as doing a Crew (increasing base hull repair) and Crew Regen buff. The cooldown reduction would go up to 20/30/40% for I/II/III (now it's 19/24/28%) and would go up to 25/33/50% with maxed Photonic skills. This is designed to make it useful, far more than it is now, and to be viable in combat. Next is the secondleast popular Science power: Charged Particle Burst. Basically, my new version of this is a boosted damage variant with a damage resistance debuff tacked on. This change would also translate into the Antiproton Sweep power, slightly amplified (because it's all 360 in a 90-degree firing arc, and because you have to use specific equipment to get it). That's all I've thought up, but there are more that could be done.
Subsection 5: General Ship Improvements
Finally is a component that I've thrown around before: Shuttlebays. Basically, this is a hangar rework. This idea is evolved from last I put it on the forums. Now, all hangar pets can only support one wing per hangar (as opposed to two now). Current Cruisers would then get two more Hangar slots (Heavy Escort Carriers up to 3, Carriers to 4), then adding 2 for the Cruisers and 1 for the Science Vessels, allowing them to use their shuttlebays for support. As each hangar can now only use 1 wing, Carriers lose nothing, but Cruisers/Science Vessels get a bit more ability (considering they're big enough to have a full shuttelbay or two), and HECs get a small buff. This allows the non-Escorts, which would already be buffed a little, to be on-par with Escorts, albeit with a different set-up, while reducing the increase in "pet spam."
SECTION TWO: CLASS REBALANCE
Subsection One: Intro
By far the most popular character class is the Tactical Officer. This, as I see it, is for a number of reasons. First, Tactical Officer powers are incredibly powerful (ground AND space). Second, Science Officers, when you see them, can't come up to par with either of the others (which saddens me, I love my Science Officers). Third is that Engineers, while fun, simply don't have the power to come up to par. However, before I cover the rebalance, I'm going to touch on a semi-related change which is simply a common sense thing: The Romulan Featured Mission "Coliseum." The career-specific objectives for Tactical and Engineering would be swapped. Engineers build the fire, Tactical officers go hunting. It makes no sense how it is now. How are Engineers better hunters and Tactical Officers better at building a fire? So, this is a simple content swap. Now that my half-tyrade on that is over, let's jump into class rebalance.
Subsection Two: Science Officers
I start with Science Officers because they are near and dear to me.My main character, my oldest character, is my Fed Science Officer (see my signature). They have the potential to be a lot of fun, but it's not there. In the current state of the game, the only kit worthwhile is the Medic kit for two reasons. First is that the other Science Kits are... well, underpowered. The debuffs aren't strong, there's no damage power, and non-Heal powers have longer cooldowns. Second, and possibly BECAUSE of the first, if you're not healer as a Sci, you get yelled at in all situations. "Why are you not healing us?" "I'm not a healer." "WHY NOT?!" "Because I don't want to be." "TOO BAD. HEAL US." It's awful. So, Science Officers need to get a buff. A big buff. With damage. I don't really know how to do this, but it needs to be done. Also, some of their Captain powers needs to be looked at (Sonic Pulse does NOTHING, I've tested it, many of the others aren't worth the time).
Subsection Three: Engineering Officers
Engineers are fun. There's no denying that. Turrets and mortars and gens oh MY! But, there's a problem with this. All of their damage is positional, and most of their support powers (Equipment Diagnostics, Quick Fix, and especially Combat Supply) are next to worthless. In PvP, it's hard to lure players. In PvE, it's next to IMPOSSIBLE. The AI is more eager to get stuck in a wall. So, I'd like some ability to take their traps on the go. In space, their powers are mostly self-support. While this is great for tanks and SOME DPS builds (Engineer Escorts are actually kinda powerful, and not as squishy). There is, however, some room for a little bit of more direct offensive power. However, at least in space, I'd have to say Engineers are probably the best balanced of them all.
Subsection Four: Tactical Officers
I like my "Tactical" Officers. I so much as look at an enemy wrong and I wonder where it went and why there'sonly a dust cloud where he had been. This is a ton of fun. But it's FAR too easy. A fully buffed Tactical DP-Escort can LITERALLY one-volley-kill NPCs (I hear players take an extra two or three volleys). Playing a Tactical Officer in this game is saying "I don't feel like having a challenge. Let's just kill stuff." That's no good. A game isn't fun if it's easy. Also, it's becoming less and less TACTICAL and more brute force smash-em-ups. Tactical Officers should be more tactical. Right now, the only tactic is "FIRE EVERYTHING." So, I say Tacs need a rework to make them live up to the namesake. They could get a BIT of a nerf, since they ARE a little too over-the-top, but mostly it's the fact that there's too much brute force. You're a Tactical Officer, not an Assault Squad Officer.
So, feedback? Questions? Comments? Speak. I listen.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Makes me ill when I'm in my huge carrier firing beams or cannons in short bursts at a nanite probe and along comes an escort firing what looks like a hail storm in Alaska!
As you said "the balance is all wrong"!!!!!!
On to your thread.
I'm not entirely convinced that simply limiting high powered weapons will have the desired effect. Firstly because pve things have enormous amounts of hp and even with all escorts it can take time, and secondly I believe that it isn't the damage an escort can do that maked is so good, its also that they are so surviveable. If the other ships were brought up to this standard it would probably go farther than reducing the escort.
I also still think that cannons are pure damage weapons, but beams should have always been a more utility weapon, axe vs sword kind of thinking. mwhile I did origionalt suggedst some heavier beam weapons I startred thinking maybe if beams did something special they could be more useful.
Hence giving them innate shield penetration.
I also think the basic boff powers need a look. at ensign level engineers really get shafter and tac doesn't come out much better in terms of choices. And that perhaps each tree should have at least one of each kind of power (heal,damage,controll).
Other than that good luck and hope you have a fire extinguisher.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
I always do, in my inventory. Good little utility item. I expect quite a bit of flame. But, some hard steps must be taken. Game imbalance is like a cancer. This cancer has been growing for too long. The only option is a harsh, surgical removal.
As for your thoughts on damage, as I said in the OP, just buffing the other ships doesn't do it. Once everything gets buffed, something even buffer comes out, and it spirals up indefinitely. That's not healthy. There needs to be a bit of a tone down, or everything goes to heck. I agree that they need the buffs (hence the special beams and the shuttlebays), but JUST buffing them is going after the cancer with a steroid injection instead of a controlled removal. Making a cancer bigger doesn't fix it.
However, you ARE right about one thing. BOff Ensign slots get shafted a lot. I have a DPS build running 3 copies of Tac Team because there are no other abilities in Ensign Tac that I want (straight cannons, so no Beams, and all of my Torp powers are higher up). So there does need to be a rework. Like I said, in the end, a genuine balance pass would probably be a Season-level release.
And one last thing, I tried the link you mentioned, the one in your OP. It doesn't work. Broken link.
Fixed that, forgot a bunch of threads got merged. And I was meaning that the escorts current balance on durability and damage should be somthing every one has, as it is lots of ships have more survivability but no one has near the same damage ability (even given cannons), and since simply surviving wont win a fight everyone needs to be able to dish it out as well as take it (with in reason).
It has also been suggested that the console boosts may be at fault, since damage boosting consoles suffer no diminishing returns but everything else does.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
If any changes were to be made to rebalance ships or classes it would HAVE to be to make them all equal as far as damage dealing and survival were concerned. The only difference then would be their window dressing/gimmicks, ie: how they go about doing things.
But that's not what you're proposing, tbh I don't think you really understand what you're proposing. I could not get thru your entire post, after a while I just had to stop reading. Its like you just put together all the worse suggestions and made a go at it.
That said I expect a lot of "me too" and "yay, I agree!!" posts will be made by people that similarly do not understand but feel helpless to improve their game performance. People asking for a total rebalance without an idea of how the game was designed (or is currently being designed, there are some hints the game was originally designed to work a little differently in space and ground).
Makes me glad I decided to stop feeling put upon and got around to learn the basics so my builds stopped being terribad. Even my terribad builds have flair these days (I miss my Rainbow Space Whale, holding agro and loling at cubes while out-dpsing the baddie escorts FTW!)
That said, a little bit of balancing would go a long way toward cutting down that irritating whine that reverbrates through the forum, increasing at least the diversity of ships in PvP and STFs, and improving the overall quality of the game.
I agree with the OPs plan by and large. Its all very... logical. Comments follow on specific points.
I hadn't seen that before, but now that I have I'm fond of it too.
I honestly don't think 10% is enough. Taking everyone's favorite ship-o-fail, the Galaxy Retro as an example, +10% of 6 = 6.6; that's an improvement, but it's so marginal its difficult to even notice. +25% to turn rate is more reasonable, I think.
I love this idea, I really do. I never fly my escorts with all cannons in solo PvE, because I want my ships to fight like ships and not like WWII fighter planes.
This would go a very long way to bringing competitive balance to PvP, and making Space STFs actually challenging again. Also it would eliminate the truly horrifying prospect of the Andorian Kumari possibly bringing FIVE DHCs to bear...
I don't know about this one. Your photonic officer proposal sounds an awful lot like Tactical Initiative with a crew buff - might be too much. Charged Particle Burst sounds good. Maybe give a little bump to Grav Well and Tychen's Rift while were at it.
My Armitage and I will thank you. And I like the idea of hangar pets for all. But could we please limit fightercraft (Peregrines, Stalkers, Scorps, To'Dujs and Orion Interceptors) to Carriers and HECs?
Also I suspect Carrier drivers won't be happy about getting no bump, but there's no pleasing some people. (Maybe the Atrox and Vo'Quv can have five hangars?)
It made perfect sense to me, as my Tac officer is basically a Mexican Will Riker (raised by an outdoorsy single dad, very big on survival training) and my Eng is a Gorn (who looks at every mammal and thinks "I wonder what that tastes like?") But I realize of course I'm the outlier.
It does not make sense for 99.99995% of players; they should be switched.
Personally I like the Analyst kit. It's sort of a jack-of-all trades kit with a nice AOE heal (Triage) a cone KB/shield drain (Tachyon Pulse) a placate grenade (Anesthezine Gas) and AOE KB/Kinetic dmg (Sonic Pulse - which works just fine for me.)
My favorite tactic for dealing with NPC mobs is to lob the gas grenade from max range (first setting my away team to passive so they don't shoot them and brieak the placate effect), rush 'em, hit them with tach pulse once I'm close enough, get in the middle of the mob and use the Ophidian cane (mostly because its hilarious watching Borg or Tholians or whatever levitate - also it takes a few seconds so I set the away team back to normal at this point) and as soon as they hit the ground send them flying with sonic pulse (also hilarious.) My away team picks off the weakest baddies very quickly, and I whip out my trusty romulan pistol or nanopulse lirpa and take out the leaders.
One thing I'd like to see for Sci officers is an innate buff to energy damage resistance. Maybe a damage buff to some of the skills in the Physicist kit.
Mortars are completely useless. It takes the shells so long to reach their target he's probably already dead by the time the shell arrives. At the least he's moved away. Best case scenario, someone else has wandered into the splash damage circle. I'd like mortars to have a much shorter fire-to-impact interval, more like grenade launchers.
Support powers do need to be revamped. Combat supply might as well be scrapped altogether. Even if someone on my away team does manage to burn through all 20 of their shield charges, I have a replicator button in my inventory to get them more.
And NPCs can be lured if you have a good tough Tac BOff with Draw Fire. After you've planted your mines and bombs and turrets (Cover Shield is useful here to funnel them into the kill zone) send your tac running up to the NPCs, click Draw Fire and have him high-tail it back. The NPCs will follow him right into your trap.
I don't know that there's a way to do this without making the AI much smarter. Outsmarting the enemy is even easier than outgunning them. But it takes longer.
Great suggestions overall. I just hope the powers-that-be will read this.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
And thus, the first flame was thrown.......
Really though your post says nothing other than "I assume you feel this way because you suck."
This is not constructive.
You could ask "why do you feel about this the way you do?" or say "I disagree because....."
And theres always keeping silent. You are bound to find those in the world you do not agree with, and if you can't pose a constructive reason why they are wrong or why you are right then you are never going to get anywhere.
And take heart! If you are right nothing would change because those with the power to change agree with you. However if things do change its because you were wrong, and I hope it doesent hurt too badly if you are.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
"Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art." - disposeableh3r0
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
General Ssharki respectfuly disagrees.
(General Ssharki is currently in his quarters in the biggest baddest battlecruiser this side of Gre'thor, sitting on a massive pile of latinum, surrounded by Orion slavegirls, guzzling Saurian brandy and trying to decide which planet to terrorize next. He has had more fun in the last eight months than you have probably had in your entire life.)
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Yeah, more or less I think that's what's going on. But I also think you probably don't really want to see how to work within the game parameters and instead want to scream to the heavens how everything is wrong.
I used to let threads like this one go by, but after getting teamed with terrible cruiser pilot after terrible cruiser pilot I decided I would speak up. I even levelled an engineer in a cruiser to see if there was any truth to the complaints, it merely reinforced my opinion that most cruiser pilots would rather complain than learn.
But again you made an assumption and are basing you argument on it. You didn't actualy attempt to gather any information on this particular poster or why they felt the way they do. And there fore have offered no help what so ever. Perhaps this person is a sub par player, but if the only reaction they have ever gotten when they post these things is one like yours, then they assume you are all *******s, and learn nothing
I personaly have never revealed what my prefered anything is, so I know no one has that info to base things about me on.
I have made posts about things that appear to be balance issues. But I always maintain an outside perspective, even if everybody assumes I am for or against somthing else.
More on point there are some things that could be changed to make gameplay more enjoyable. As it is to be competitive in certain areas of the game you have to follow relatively narrow build specs, there are skills that no one uses, and there are ships that are totaly gimped by lack of available powers/weapons. To me thats a balance issue, nothing should ever be considered totaly useless, and we should have more than 1 or 2 weapons available at all times that are at least equaly effective on the same platform.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Or better yet...just use beams on a escort, fly around fast and destroy stuff even faster with their shields still up.
What happens if you tacke a escort or slow it down... it cant tank for ****.
So if by soem what you "nerf" theyr uber speed, you need to compensate survival some other way.
Since DEM already does this to an extent I don't see an issue. You would just do slightly more damage to a shielded target, you gain no bonus to an un shielded target.
And even a 10% bonus is barely any damage on a beam weapon. Since shields already have a 10% bleedthrough rate you would gain a mak of 20%damage through shields. If your beam weapon does 1000 damage your target recieves 200 damage (before resistances). Toss in a maco shield and you only get a 15% max plus and additional 10%reduction from the shield resistance.
OFC, there is also the option of adding a bonus to shield damage for beam weapons, that adds some interesting utility.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
thats 200 damage per beam - many cruisers use up to 8. thats 1.6k/sec to hull + 5 or 10% bleed extra. would be at 2k/sec + any resist.. if there is one for that energy type.
that would force people to somehow get both hull and shield regen/heals which doesnt work in sto.
200 damage befor resists seems liek alot but that is only if you can keep your weapons firing at full power, and ofc have a beam that hits for 1000.
NPC mobs don't really matter since they also have more hull/shields than any player.
MACO shields was an example, any resiliant shield had a 5% bleed through, and in general in PVP most everyone is using MACO or similar.
Hull and shield regen is easy, one copy of hazaed emitters and/or the borg rep tier2 hull passive, and one copy of emergy power to shields and/or the tier4 borg rep shield passive.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
I'd also love to see more of a distinction between capital ships and the rest; my favourite suggestion for that was a form of heavy or focused beam, which only capital ships can take and would do more damage against other capital ships, but around normal damage against other ships, and poor damage against small craft and frigates (so you can't just take all heavy beams unless you're building a dedicated ship of the line that needs to be supported). Extra range wouldn't hurt either, but would need to be balanced (e.g - 15km range would need to do only around 2/3rd damage against non-capital ships).
Game Balance - Ship Size and Wingmates
The real problems seem to stem from a few things.
1) A tactical captains ability to buff ALL damage with AP:A and GDF. This has caused skills that were decent to become WAY too OP and thus getting nerfed. Make it weapon damage and most people will not notice or care.
2) Enemies in PvE elite difficulty have way more health and shields than in PvP. What works in one will either be over or under powered in the other. If it is possible a separation of the damage/effects of abilities between PvE and PvP would most likely solve this. More work initially but would make balancing later much easier.
3) Tactical team is essential to all builds due to the auto distribution and horrific damage NPCs can put out. Maybe this should be brought to science team and engineering team with tactical team being either the best at it or provided + to targeting and maneuvers too. Another way for someone to distribute shields faster would also be welcomed.
4) The ability to have Lt.Commander and Commander level non tactical skills on cruisers and science ships do not help make up for the loss of damage by having less tactical consoles (can be a difference of 3 slots) and tactical powers.
I'm not saying all Lt.Commander and Commander abilities should do massive damage but for example a gravity well 3 (full aux, 150+ in particle gens and sensor scan) should be able to take down the probes on KASE to 2/3 health especially with the 40s minimum cool down and DEM 3 should provide a much bigger shield penetration bonus.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
fire Dstahl and hire this man!!
The defiant did take out an excelsior-class ship, in the episode where the federation was fearing dominion invasion. I think it was season 4 episode 12 "paradise lost." However, like the valiant that was destroyed attacking a ship that was comparable to twice the size and strength of a galaxy -- it shows that a galaxy should be able to take out a defiant-class ship.
That being said. there, is a balance issue that should be addressed for sure. In another thread the following was offered:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller
I will add to the OP's post concerning the extremely unfair advantage Tac captains have compared to the other 2 careers:
1- Damage boost abilities are global.
Yes, that means a tac captain in a science ship will do more damage with science abilities than a full fledged sci capt in a sci ship. Hit atk Alpha, Go down Fighting and gravity wells/photonic shockwave/repulsor beams/tractor beams/ ANYTHING sci based that does damage... gets a ~300% damage boost. A sci captain cannot even creep close to that damage output with sci capt abilities alone. All other abilities available to science boffs are broken and the stats they are associated with dont provide any noticeable boost to the ability (aside from healing..im talking offensive/crowd control abilities).
The same damage bonus applies to engineer damage abilities. Warp Plasma, Directed Energy Modulation... you name it.
Its ABSURD that a Tactical captain performs better in sci ships than a sci captain and than an engineer in a cruiser.
2- Escorts have access to all the defensive and navigation engineer and science bonuses via their tactical boff abilities.
Case in point: Attack Pattern Omega.
Defense boost = None. Unique.
Speed Boost = Emg Pwr to Engine
Immunity to holds = Polarize Hull
Damage boost = Emg Pwr to Weapons
Turn rate boost = Aux2Dampeners
HOLY TRIBBLE. With this one ability the escort ship gets the EQUIVALENT of having Lt Cmdr engineer and Science station abilities.
Atk Omega is one of the primary reasons escorts, and particularly tac captains in escorts, are so ridiculously overpowered.
3- Stat bonuses are heavily biased to benefit tactical captains. This is the result of BAD design from the devs when they went F2P. The space revamp bunched all energy weapon types, all projectile weapon types, all the weapon-related damage boosting stats ...into an extremely simplistic 'this works for all' skill box. This resulted in all tac captains not needing to sacrifice skill points to gain max performance with which to stack upon their tac-capt dmg boosting abilities and their escort-based (lt cmdr tac+) station abilities.
Engineer and Science on the other hand, their skill boxes remained largely the same. Science in particular lost several stat-types and got them bunched into other stats... but by doing so the devs broke the stats and they have not provided any noticeable boost ever since.
Case in point: Gravity Well.
Pre-F2P a grav well 3 fired by someone with ZERO particle/graviton skills would be what we have now @9pnts in both. Assuming both being fired @ max aux. A grav well 3 with 9pnts in grav/particle + max aux on the other hand, was so effective that ships would be sucked into the center of the anomaly and be held there the entire duration UNLESS they used polarize hull or evasive maneuvers. Atk Omega did not use to break you free from holds, it used to prevent holds (aka you had to had omega active before a hold hit you or it would not protect you).
Today, the particle skill hardly gives you any damage bonus and graviton skill barely affects the super weak strength of the tractor effect.
We know for a FACT that it is the bonus to these stats that is intentionally set so low that they are useless. How do we know? In season 3 or 4 (I forget which) there was a patch that boosted these stats...and for a few days grav wells had returned to pre-f2p levels.
Case in point: Sensor abilities.
Jam and Scramble Sensors used to have long durations and used to take a LOT of damage before the effect broke. A sci ship COULD crowd control with them back in pre-f2p. Now however the effect is so weak a single hit by a mk1 white turret will break a jam sensor 3 fired by a sci ship @ max aux +9pnts in countermeasures.
Case in point: Tachyon Beam.
Pre-F2P this ability was incredibly useful. It drained a darn good amount of shields and most importantly it used to prevent shield balancing while active (10 seconds). It was a true support ability and was an important asset for any team to have.
Today, because the stat associated with it is so weak, tachyon beam 3 is a wasted slot. It doesnt even prevent shield balancing (no idea why this was removed in space revamp!).
Case in point: Power Drains
Same old story. Before a single siphon 3 could make a cruiser captain sweat... now its another wasted slot because flow capacitors bonus is very low. Plus the added power drain resists (which were never needed to begin with!).
So, overall, tac abilities received an impressive boost while sci and engineer abilities got tossed and flushed down the toilet.
Before F2P the game was balanced in the sense that escorts were NOT the highest damage dealers (cruisers were) but they were the only ships with the speed and turn rate to focus on one shield facing and pummel it down. Cruisers were the most difficult ships to shoot down since they were monster tanks AND they had the highest firepower..but their turn rate and speed were TRIBBLE. Sci ships were the best shield tanks but had very weak hulls so they could only buffer tank...and while they had the lowest dps of all ships, they did their fighting with science abilities... a disable, tractor, energy drain, grav well, sensor jam... all these were used to turn powerful enemies into weak enemies so that their low dps could take them down.
Cruisers used to fear sci ships, sci ships used to fear escorts, escorts used to be VERY afraid of both cruisers and sci ships when under 5km range and REALLY flew to avoid cruiser broadsides and sci ship's forward aspect (most sci abilities fire forward)... but even though they were afraid of them the escort could shoot them both down quickly IF he attacked the same shield and IF he used his weapons and abilities right.
That was the balance. It is gone now. Replaced by sheer idiotic raw DPS and ungodly tanking ability given to escort ships... its point/click/boom gameplay...and the 'brainplay' that used to be sci and engineer has been twisted into 'ooh look i can heal' spamming.
How to FIX the game and return it to balance:
1- Remove ALL speed/turn/rate/damage/healing bonuses granted by any skill box. Let ship equipment determine this.
* the effect this will have is that it will make all ships return to pre-f2p tactical combat rather than stupid arcade fighting. By removing the rank-based boosts to all these, ship combat once again becomes a matter of who uses and flies their ships better not just who can stack damage abilities or healing abilities and spam them regardless of where their ship is pointing or flying.
2- Split Atk Omega into Attack and Evasive Pattern.
Atk Omega:
Small Damage resist debuff
Medium Damage boost
Medium Turn rate boost
Large Accuracy buff
Evasive Gamma (?)
Immunity to holds
Large Speed Boost
Medium Defense boost
Medium turn rate boost.
3- Increase stat effect of all sci and engineer skill boxes by a significant amount.
4- Remove tactical captain boost abilities from affecting non-weapon based damage.
I know the tac boosts do this because the damage done by non-weapons is always classed as kinetic... so how about simply re-assigning that non-weapon damage to a new damage type: Exotic damage. Just like pre-f2p.
The only way to resist exotic damage should be through armor, consoles and boff ability resistance. Defense rating should not be factored into damage reduction equations since sci abilities are not 'aimed' like weapons are.
the link is here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=542681&page=4
I'm sure many of these points have been brought up here as well, but I found the argument compelling.
Good luck in forging for a solution
Anything beyond that creates an imbalance.
What this game needs is a reduction in escort survivability (lower shield cap, higher regeneration (designed for hit and run) with lower resistances and hull strength (compared to other classes)) this stops them yoyo-ing and doing more sustained DPS than cruisers as a side effect and as a primary effect reduces their ability to tank things.
After this an adjustment needs to be made to Attack pattern Omega removing the hold immunity and perhaps making it a minor hold resistance, this would open them up to their primary weakness again, also a change to tactical team or perhaps just spreading the shield distribution to both other crew skills allowing you to pick a crew skill based on what you need at that moment rather than tactical team all the time.
A minor reduction in DHC damage should be made to bring them more in line with other weapons(burst mods (Cannon rapid fire, scatter volley) would remain the same), they should also get a drain increase (I can run an escort with 3 DHCs and 3 turrets and never have weapon power drop below 120). Along with this an adjustment to beam weapon power drain must be made to stop them reducing their own damage alongside this MAYBE a minor increase in the base damage of beam arrays (no more than 10% as that would be OP) as any engineer cruiser pilot will know beam arrays are fine when you turn off the drain (see nadion inversion). Also a slight movement buff for cruisers wouldn't go a miss but is not essential (Have flown the oddy and I made it move when I had to).
Attack pattern Alpha and Go down fighting need adjustments to only buff Energy and Kinetic damage and then adjust all science skill damage to be exotic and receive a major buff across the board. This would be done alongside changes to the skill table to make Starship flow capacitors a direct counter to starship power insulators (currently six points of insulators has more effect than 9 points of flow capacitors), The same alterations need to be made to starship stealth vs starship sensors (such that six points in sensors+sci ship sensors+high aux (85+) would detect 6 points in stealth+cloak), inertial dampeners vs graviton generators, etc (I would adjust these such that the lower skill gets a buff to equal the higher skill). Energy drains would need increased effect as well as gravity wells pull and damage buff to both with around 75% shield penetration (we're talking about forces that would rip hulls apart over time). On top of this the cooldowns on a lot of science skills need to be reduced to be brought in line with skills of the other classes.
On the subject of skills all emergency power to system skills should be brought up to the standard of emergency power to shields such that emergency power to weapons becomes a direct counter to emergency to shields, this would again help with cruiser damage output but would still not enable them to outperform escorts in that role. Photonic fleet needs a huge boost to its effectiveness; right now it is simply a minor distraction and should be altered to produce supplemental damage for a science captain (due to their low damage output). I would suggest rather than applying a heal resistance on escorts that we make the games heal skills percentage based with application of aux power as another percentage so you would have for example:
Auxiliary power to structural integrity field:
Max Hull= A
B percent of A= C
D= E percent of C (Where E is calculated using aux power)
Heal= C+(C*D)
So in numbers that would be (as an example)
Aux power: 25
A= 1000
B= 10 so C=100
E= 0.50% (Calc: (0.02*Aux power (in this case 25))/100)
D= 50%
Heal= 150 (Calc (100+(100*0.5))
This would reduce escort healing while making everyone else's extra stats and aux power meaningful without making it UP on escorts.
Having done all of this we turn to NPCs, An increase in mounted weapons is in order as well as a reduction in the damage each of their weapons does (more in line with player weapons) along with a reduction in HP but an improvement in the AI and range of skills available to them to account for the reduction in damage and in HP, this would give a challenge to players, give a use for all classes and make the game more fun overall.
These together would be enough for the major adjustments right now, and then we can adjust more things as they arise.
TLDR: Sorry, too much to summarise
How I WISH there was a real difference to these posts! I really do. I long to hear a new argument, or for someone to relate a genuinely new cause and effect!
I like the OP's post. It is well thought out and isn't a straight nerf-fest. Nerfing is NOT what is required for the game, it's a new approach.
My responses to the OP...
ESCORTS
I like the limit of 2 cannons per escort. I also think that they shouldn't be able to tank as much. I do think that something should be added to them, however. I feel that they should be faster, to enable them to get out of range of a cruiser when they're in trouble. Also, I think the defence bonus for moving faster should be increased. The correct mix of reduced firepower and tanking ability mixed with better speed and speed related defence would balance the ship out. It would mean an end to escorts sitting almost still with two Tac Teams, tanking away whilst unloading vast firepower on another soon-to-be victim. The speed increase and defence boost from speed would make them be flown like you see the defiant being flown; fast, nimble, hard to hit but still with teeth. The speed and agility boost would still give you PLENTY of opportunity to hit with cannons.
CRUISERS
Heavy beams is a fantastic idea. Cruisers do need a little more bite as their BOFF powers do seem to focus more on shield and hull healing. To add to your idea, I think that cruisers need to be a little larger than other ships. With their huge warp cores and powerful shields they should have an innate ability to slightly add to the shield regen rate of small, friendly ships. A harmonic effect, of you will. This would ONLY take effect if the ships were VERY close to each other, maybe a 2km range. This would add an element of cohesiveness to teams, relying on the cruiser for healing and defence whilst protecting the cruiser for the benefit of the team. Also see the idea of losing lock below.
SCIENCE
Science ships should be the ships that surprise you. Against a science ship you should be thinking, "Is he going to drain me, anchor me, confuse me or what?" Right now they're very meh. I love the idea of Photonic Officer and Charged Particle Burst being revamped. They're useless as they are now. I also think that their non-damage effects should be harder to resist. A gravity well should be boosted in it attract effect but NOT its damage. Tyken's should have more drain, etc. Tachyon Beam should also prevent shield rebalancing. Why was it ever taken out?!?
BOFF HEAL ABILITIES
Tac Team, Sci Team and Eng Team are too powerful. The best ability can be swept away in an instant with a single activation of the right ability. To make things more interesting, these abilities should only have a percentage chance of clearing enemy effects. The higher the level, the more chance. This will make Tac Team 2 and 3 a lot more relevant.
COMBAT ADDITION
I feel that ship battles are too short. I think the damage and damage resist should be adjusted so that the battles are a little longer. These ships are the cutting edge of future technology and should last a little longer in a battle.
To make things more interesting, when you're being fired upon and you fly behind another ship I feel that a loss of lock would make things very interesting. This would benefit escorts and sci ships more, but cruisers could still use it by passing behind another ship. If not an automatic loss of lock, perhaps a % chance to lose lock depending on your distance to the target. With this idea, combat would become more dynamic. Movement tactics would all of a sudden take on a new and larger dimension.
To make this idea work a little better, ship size in relation to distance needs to be adjusted. At 10km distance I feel the ships are too large. They should be smaller. Getting close to being out of visual range. That will assist lock being lost at larger ranges when they travel behind another ship. Both visually and logically.
I've said it in other threads: The game WAS balanced, role-wise per ship class, before the F2P.
All you need to do is trace the changes that were made to the game that turned a balanced game into a DPS-centric, escort-biased, no-brains idiotic shooter that it is now.
The main change was skillboxes. The tactical skillboxes were dumbed down and cut in half (# of boxes) so that now anyone and their grandma can fully spec into weapons AND into tanking skills. Science skillboxes were nerfed into irrelevance.
So, you have tac captains in escorts suddenly being able to max out their damage boosting skill boxes (and the boost is MASSIVE) as well as their engineering and science tanking abilities.. the result? very tanky, ridiculous high damage escorts.
...but can't sci and engineers do that too? NO. They cannot. The cruiser and science ships are neutered by their boff slots... aka, LT tactical for the most part. Since engineering and science abilities do zilch for damage nowadays this makes their max tactical skillboxes be mostly useless compared to an escort since the effective, high damaging abilities come at Lt Cmdr and Cmdr tactical slots. An escort oth, gains access to the bulk of the high performing tanking abilities at Lt sci/Lt Eng level.
So, the solution to the balance problem is simple: Tactical skill boxes need to be re-vamped and upped in complexity. Science boxes need to have the stat bonuses increased to match pre-f2p levels. Engineer is perhaps the only career that didn't get a nerf...perhaps because escorts needed the tankyness from their skillsets...and please dont even bother to try and claim cryptic is not escort-centric...it has been obvious and clear since F2P went live that they want the game to be dps oriented because that alone allows them to monetize TRIBBLE.
This DOES need to be done. A big complaint I've heard about the JHAS is that it simply doesn't die. It's tanky, more so than it should be.
It's Hold Immunity isn't directly from Holding. It gets it from the Teleport Immunity that it was given after the Bortasqu' came out with Subspace Snare. I don't actually think it's even working as intended, I'm pretty sure it's a bug.
Also, I was considering (under General Ship Improvements) re-posting my idea for rebalancing Teams (bringing Sci and Eng up to Tac Team par), but I couldn't remember the details. When I DO remember it, it'll be there.
Considering DHCs drain about as much damage as beams for 2-3 times the DPV, I think we could rebalance this as tripling the DHC drain (so there's a constant ration between DPV and Weapon drain).
And yes, I know of Nadion Inversion. Fun power. Especially useful in conjunction with EPS Power Transfer, Aux to Bat (which Nadion Inversion does not affect) with a Tech DOff, and B:FAW. My tank has almost noticeable damage with that combo. Otherwise, it's like throwing bologna at a jet.
APA is a bit over the top, yes. But not horrendously. Take it down a little and it would be fine.
Go Down Fighting is another matter. I see its purpose (the almighty "Oh Sh*t" button for when you know you're dead and want to do what you can before you're vapor), but it STARTS way too high (30% bonus damage at full Hull) and scales way too well (if you mouse over it while you're dead, it displays a 105% boost - that's 0.75% per 1% of hull) It's a BIT over the top. Easy fix is to knock 15% off the top. After that, even the scaling makes it a bit better, but I'd still say knock it down to 0.65% per 1% hull (reducing the max to about +80% at no hull).
Actually, Photonic Fleet can do quite a BIT, if you're a bit lucky. Pulling even ONE holo-Escort is great added damage. Hell, even a holo-CRUISER can help turn the tides. This is especially evident against Cubes and other battleships: the focused fire of four ships is more than you think. The only reason I don't use it much is because of the cooldown, so I save it for Bossfights (Unimatrix Command Ships, for example), where the boss loses some AoE power and I gain damage.
I actually like your Aux to SIF rework. I've never used AtSIF before, but that would make me consider it. Although, Aux to Bat does make Aux worth something... a boost for everything else. When you can pop EPS Power Transfer and Aux to Bat I and go from 45 Engine power to 120, you know you're doing it right.
So do I. I fly the Breen Ship, the Odyssey (non-C-store), the Chimera, the B'rel Retro, and even a Vo'Quv. I see the argument from all sides. I like flying DPS ships. But I see that the imbalance they have is AWFUL, and needs a fix.
Except that as it is, Escorts don't NEED to run from cruisers. They either kill the cruisers or tank its damage until it dies. Escorts shouldn't be harder to kill than Tanks.
This is what Cruiser do now. It's all they CAN do, because their damage is next to nonexistent. They need to be more self-supporting, not just an aid for Escorts.
Yes. Science Powers DO need a heavy rework. Most are UP, and the rest are support only.
I agree with the percent chance of removal, but Eng/Sci Team 3 are kinda more worth it now because of the heal components (I dunno about Sci Team 3, but ET3 heals 10,094 hull). My problem is that Sci and Eng aren't up to par with Tactical Team (Tac Team lasts longer and does more). They need a buff to make it more equal.
I like this, especially since I am of the opinion that we should have Manual Targeting (Shooter Mode in Space) as well as Ventral and Dorsal shields (to make the Z-axis relevant in Combat).
Um... it was unbalanced WAAAAAY before Season 5. As I quoted in the OP: "Balance: Coming soon(tm) since Season 1.2." This game has needed a balance pass for two years.
Oh, I KNOW Cryptic loves them some Escorts. That's why Escorts are so OP. But, you are somewhat wrong. Scis and Engineers can max their damage skillboxes just as easily as Tacs. It IS the BOff Seatings (and how OP straight DHCs are) that make things so awful. The problem isn't skills, it's the fact that DHC DP-Escorts can do so much more damage with their weapons.
That's the problem: Escorts are just as survivable as Cruisers and do more damage. Why is it that a five-deck-high Defiant class ship can take as much damage as a 40+ -deck Odyssey? Escorts SHOULD be glass cannons, not neutronium ones.
If you didn't bother to read it, don't bother replying. I know EXACTLY what I'm saying. I fly DPS ships, too. I know this game, I know how it works, and I know what needs to be changed. I was around before the first anniversary, I'm NOT wet behind the ears.
Your expectation is fulfilled, because the only person I don't think know what they're talking about is you. The ships need to be balanced, since Escorts do everything when they shouldn't. The Devs have even agreed on this.
So do I. But, that's because I have good builds. WITH high-end gear, versus anyone, there's tons of imbalance. Also, PUGs vs. Premades is one of the biggest PvP complaints.
It wouldd serve to help balance classes a bit.
Touche. Worth noting that I've flown the Galaxy Retrofit... even with 2 blue Mk XI RCS consoles, it was BAAAAAD.
You may not, but that's the core of most DPS builds, and it's WAY over-the-top. I've played it, I still do, but it really isn't fair.
Basically, my Photonic Officer rework is a buff to how it is NOW. Except that it ALSO does Captain powers, which is where CDR is really needed. It might be a little much but, believe it or now, it's not too big a change compared to its current total uselessness.
I want the other ships to launch fighters, in order to bring their damage up a little bit. As for giving Vo'Quvs and Atroxes 5... maybe for the Fleet variants, but not the normal ones. After all, they're getting 4 now because I changed how Hangar items worked (1 wing per hangar as opposed to 2), so that they'd still have the number of pets they usually have.
True enough, some people might be like that, but the majority of it makes more sense the new way.
Oops. I got Sonic Pulse and Neural Neutralizer mixed up. Neural Neutralizer is the one that doesn't work ever.
Your tactic sounds fun, but the fact of the matter is you'll still get screamed at on a team for not being a healer. Plus, almost NONE of that is direct damage. Science Officers need that.
Actually, I get quite a few Mortar kills. One of my Science BOffs carries Electro-Gravitic Field. Not as useless as you think. But, they could use a buff.
Combat Supply should be more useful. Right now, the max tier one gives Large stuff, which is good, but usually you have your own supply. What I think it could be is a placeable AoE CDR/Generator Bonus. You can fabricate items faster, with a chance to spawn more (maybe a special one) of that type in the area.
It's actually really quick in some areas, if you know mobs will spawn in a certain area. All you do is put your BOffs to either side in pairs. When the enemy beams in, you get TONS of flanking damage.
Once I've replied to all I'm going to reply to, I plan to send this to Brandon via Twitter.
You must be playing them wrong. How is an orbital strike "dull?"
Except that I love my DPS ships. I have 3, out of my 5 characters. It's just not fair, not balanced, not good for the game.
Diminishing Tac Console Returns: Good idea. Your premise may be somewhat flawed (I can tell you right now that Cruisers do NOTdo the same damage as Escorts), but it's a good idea nonetheless.
Tac Team Nerf: I disagree. I think Tac Team is the standard the other Teams need to be brought to. At its core, it has three functions: 1, a class-specific ability boost; 2, a class-specific defensive ability; and 3, a class-specific pseudo-heal. The other two don't have the first part, or the duration. Eng Team should have a Hull Damage Resist buff, and Sci Team should have a Shield Resist buff (to match the damage buff provided by TT).
Crew Fix: 100% Agree. I barely notice when crew dies. It's kinda useless, and they die too fast.
Hull Difference: I agree on its necessity, but not on how to do it. Escorts need to be squishier, considering their size.
Natural Sci bonuses: Agreed. Tacticals have too much, effectively. Redistribute the power.
Item Sets: Agreed again.
Improve Enemy AI: Agreed and extended to be ALL AI, since my BOffs are really, REALLY stupid at the moment. I can't trust them with Exploit weapons (they don't Exploit properly), Device Powers (they spam their Ophidian Canes and whatnot), and they get stuck too easily.
Varied PvE: Whole-HEARTEDLY agreed.
Except that that's what they are used for. Most people pop ALL the buffs and unload with their weapons, then ask "what enemy?" The boosts need as much a nerf as the weapons themselves
If you've played Guild Wars, you'd know this is a bad idea. Giving powers "PvP-versions" makes it confusing, and usually the PvP versions are hugely nerfed. The game needs something to balance it, but it's not this.
Actually, the only powers I consider "essential" to a build are at least one torpedo and Hazard Emitters. Tactical Team is what I run, simply because there's nothing better to get.
True enough. But, it's pretty tough to kill RSPIII and ETIII together. Still, there DOES need to be some damage.
Agreed. Those few things that do damage at high Sci/Eng tiers need buffs.
I'm going to college in order to work on STO. Dan is the EP. I don't want to be an EP. I want to be under Geko, doing powers and whatnot. I'm an Engineer, not a politician!
Yes, that WAS Paradise Lost. The Defiant and the Lakota nearly destroyed one another. Notice that, half the time, the Lakota could barely hit the Defiant. If the Lakota had locked a Tractor Beam, they'd have ripped the Defiant to pieces. Small ships can't take damage.
As said previously, Tac Officers do need some nerf.
The Immunity to Hold is a bug from the Immunity to Teleport that counters Subspace Snare. However, it doesn't mitigate the Tractor Beam shield damage, but that's insignificant.
On the contrary, I've seen some noticeable skill effects since the new skill tree launched. Aslo, all classes can just as easily get the weapon stats. It's just that Tacs can use them better. But, those Sci and Eng skills DO need a buff.
I remember that. Again, Sci powers need buffs.
And even back THEN, tacs were a LITTLE OP. Now it's BAD.
I don't remember cruisers EVER out-DPSing an Escort. Escorts have always been DPS, they just got overloaded recently.
There were movebment skill boxes pre-F2P. They were all at Ensign. Removing them would hurt Cruisers more than Escorts. Cruisers need them.
Might work. But, AP:O isn't an absolute in all builds. Someone would find a new way.
Agreed.
This, most definitely.
That's not balance, that's everything being the same. Balance is having equally powerful options.
This game has the following percentage points in these areas:
80% Skill
18% Gear/Ship/Class/Whatever else the game throws you as a bone
2% Luck
Its time we get over this mentallity of "Nerf this class, nerf this ship, nerf this abillity etc". There are too many threads across the forums already.
The tools are there in game to get you to where you want to be... Question is, will you learn to adapt, learn a new skill or are you just going to cry nerf in the corner and hope it gets fixed because you refuse to adapt and change to meet the demands of the game and your playstyle?
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
Why have all these consoles in the game if no one ever uses more than five or six of them?
Besides capping DPS, this would have the following benefits:
- making people actually think about what consoles they want to use, instead of just "Neutronium x3, emitter amp x2, disruptor coil x5, goodbye to everyone in a 45-degree firing arc!"
- making people choose their ships based off more than just how many tac consoles it has. More ship diversity is a good thing. I don't like being surrounded by excelsiors and defiants everywhere I go.
- balancing out the prices of certain items on the exchange. 5million ec for a Mk XI purple Neutronium console, are you freaking kidding me?
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon