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The last Enterprise.
jtoney3448
Member Posts: 642 Arc User
This is a repost of my post in another thread on the Galaxy-R. To fix the last of the enterprise series that seems to be langushing behind the rest of its sister ships.
i have the Excel, Ambassador, Galaxy, Sov, Galaxy X, and Oddy. Comparing them is useless the galaxy is just inferior in every way sadly. Lets breakdown the Enterprise classes.
Galaxy - Tank/healer, has seperation on 5min cooldown, most endgame content can 1 shot u.
Sov - Tanks just as well while doing more dmg, heals as well. +1 turn
Ambassador - Tanks as good, heals way better, and can out dps it by scores. +1 turn
Excel - Tanks and heals just as good, and out dmgs it by a mile. +2 turn
Free Odd - Tanks/heals/DPS, better boff layout. -1 turn
So lets compare fleet versions.
Galaxy - Tank healer, 5th eng console. Seperation.
Sov - Tank/healer/DPS, 4th tac console, better boff layout. +1 turn
Ambassador - Tank/healer/dps, 3rd sci console, better boff layout. +1 turn 60k hull
Excel - Tank/healer/dps, 4th tac console, same boff layout, +2 turnrate still out dmgs Gal.
Zen Oddy - Tank/healer/dps many console choices, better boff layout, chevron seperation, better shield mod. 58k hull
So lets look at the breakdown.
Galaxy has less turn then all but odd.
Galaxy cant do anywhere near the amount of dmg the others can.
Galaxy cant heal as well as the oddy or the ambassador.
Galaxy tanks as well as the others.
Galaxy has slightly more hull then excel and sov.
Galaxy has worst Boff layout of all.
Galaxy has worst console layout of all.
Now lets think of how this game is played. Tanking = useless, throw enough resist on an escort it will tank just as good. Healing and DPS are both very important.
Breakdown of 5 consoles of 1 type per ships.
5 Sci consoles - Tons of shield generators and regen, among other sci to chose from like power inslators.
5 Tac consoles - Tons of dps and versitility in dmg types, like projectile and energy.
5 Eng consoles - Armor has mega diminishing returns so anything over 2-3 is pretty much a waste. Power consoles give a very small amount of power for little return. SIF consoles are useful. RCS Consoles are useful only on ships with higher base turn as 35% of 6 is basicly nothing 1% degree per sec turnrate. Crew resist consoles are useful but dont prevent repair rate from falling to critically low levels, had 100% crew injured yesterday with 0% repair per min 0 dead crew.
So, 5 sci consoles = Awesome sauce. 5 Tac consoles = Uber dmg. 5 Eng consoles = crippled your dps and survivability for little to nothing.
How do we fix the trainwreck?
Fleet Galaxy.
4 eng consoles
3 sci
3 tac
Base hull is 43,500
Shield mod 1.10
Turnrate 7
Boff layout - LTC uni, LT uni, LT sci, Ens Eng, Cmd Eng.
Saucer seperation is now toggleable BUT has a 30 sec toggle global cooldown, and your ship comes to a stop.
+ add the costume piece "Galaxy Venture Refit Necells" from the dominion wars, its the galaxy X necells minus the 3rd necell to customization options.
Fleet Galaxy-X.
4 eng consoles
2 sci
4 tac
Base hull is 43,000
Shield mod 1.10
Turnrate 7
Boff layout - LTC tac, LT Eng, LT sci, Ens uni, Cmd Eng.
Saucer seperation enabled toggleable BUT has a 30 sec toggle global cooldown, and your ship comes to a stop. The Lance now is a fused weapon in a 5th forward weapon slot, you can buy different lances in the dil store. Like Acc x2, CritD in diff energy weapon variations like antiproton.
And elite version at your T4 starbase shipyard like Acc x1 Dmgx3. The weapon is no longer an ability it is a beam weapon that fires in a pulse of 2 bo2's every 30 sec, with 45degree firing arc. While saucer seperation is in effect the weapon does 1/2 dmg and fires in a wide beam cone of 90degrees.
What does that all mean? It gives the galaxy less firepower then some of its counter parts but puts its flexablity and versitlity in a much broader scope.
Galaxy would have.
More shield then excel and Sov. But on par with oddy/amb.
Less damage then the excel and Sov. But on par with oddy/amb.
More healing then the Excel and sov. But on par with oddy/amb.
Equal manuverability to all its sister ships cept excel.
More hull then its sister ships but a slightly lower impulse mod to make its acceleration a tad slower.
Saucer sep stopping the ship would prevent people from spamming it in combat to regain their saucer that die.
The galaxy x would be on par with the Sov/Excel with the turnrate able to somewhat use its cannons more effectivily. And saucer sep to really use cannons to the fullest. With modable fused weapons like the lance you could then run all AP weapons or plasma with no ill effect to your lance. It would also improve the hitrate of the actual lance blasts with +Acc lances. The over all dmg per blast would be reduced from BO3 levels to BO2 levels but would fire more often cause of the 30 sec cooldown over the 2min cooldown. Resulting in over all better performance in the ship as a whole but without unbalancing it as the lances narrow arc limits firing time on target.
The seperated lance would be like firing an instant energy based torpedo spread 1. Hits 3 in the 90 degree arc
for 5-8k dmg x2 pulses. Would be on par with a Tricobalt torpedo spread 2.
Also give the fleet defiant a .99 shield mod. A similar build to the Fleet Gal and X could be done with the KDF Neg and Gurumba, with variations to hull str and turnrates. Lots of people would love a KDF tactical Neg'var from Mirror DS9.
i have the Excel, Ambassador, Galaxy, Sov, Galaxy X, and Oddy. Comparing them is useless the galaxy is just inferior in every way sadly. Lets breakdown the Enterprise classes.
Galaxy - Tank/healer, has seperation on 5min cooldown, most endgame content can 1 shot u.
Sov - Tanks just as well while doing more dmg, heals as well. +1 turn
Ambassador - Tanks as good, heals way better, and can out dps it by scores. +1 turn
Excel - Tanks and heals just as good, and out dmgs it by a mile. +2 turn
Free Odd - Tanks/heals/DPS, better boff layout. -1 turn
So lets compare fleet versions.
Galaxy - Tank healer, 5th eng console. Seperation.
Sov - Tank/healer/DPS, 4th tac console, better boff layout. +1 turn
Ambassador - Tank/healer/dps, 3rd sci console, better boff layout. +1 turn 60k hull
Excel - Tank/healer/dps, 4th tac console, same boff layout, +2 turnrate still out dmgs Gal.
Zen Oddy - Tank/healer/dps many console choices, better boff layout, chevron seperation, better shield mod. 58k hull
So lets look at the breakdown.
Galaxy has less turn then all but odd.
Galaxy cant do anywhere near the amount of dmg the others can.
Galaxy cant heal as well as the oddy or the ambassador.
Galaxy tanks as well as the others.
Galaxy has slightly more hull then excel and sov.
Galaxy has worst Boff layout of all.
Galaxy has worst console layout of all.
Now lets think of how this game is played. Tanking = useless, throw enough resist on an escort it will tank just as good. Healing and DPS are both very important.
Breakdown of 5 consoles of 1 type per ships.
5 Sci consoles - Tons of shield generators and regen, among other sci to chose from like power inslators.
5 Tac consoles - Tons of dps and versitility in dmg types, like projectile and energy.
5 Eng consoles - Armor has mega diminishing returns so anything over 2-3 is pretty much a waste. Power consoles give a very small amount of power for little return. SIF consoles are useful. RCS Consoles are useful only on ships with higher base turn as 35% of 6 is basicly nothing 1% degree per sec turnrate. Crew resist consoles are useful but dont prevent repair rate from falling to critically low levels, had 100% crew injured yesterday with 0% repair per min 0 dead crew.
So, 5 sci consoles = Awesome sauce. 5 Tac consoles = Uber dmg. 5 Eng consoles = crippled your dps and survivability for little to nothing.
How do we fix the trainwreck?
Fleet Galaxy.
4 eng consoles
3 sci
3 tac
Base hull is 43,500
Shield mod 1.10
Turnrate 7
Boff layout - LTC uni, LT uni, LT sci, Ens Eng, Cmd Eng.
Saucer seperation is now toggleable BUT has a 30 sec toggle global cooldown, and your ship comes to a stop.
+ add the costume piece "Galaxy Venture Refit Necells" from the dominion wars, its the galaxy X necells minus the 3rd necell to customization options.
Fleet Galaxy-X.
4 eng consoles
2 sci
4 tac
Base hull is 43,000
Shield mod 1.10
Turnrate 7
Boff layout - LTC tac, LT Eng, LT sci, Ens uni, Cmd Eng.
Saucer seperation enabled toggleable BUT has a 30 sec toggle global cooldown, and your ship comes to a stop. The Lance now is a fused weapon in a 5th forward weapon slot, you can buy different lances in the dil store. Like Acc x2, CritD in diff energy weapon variations like antiproton.
And elite version at your T4 starbase shipyard like Acc x1 Dmgx3. The weapon is no longer an ability it is a beam weapon that fires in a pulse of 2 bo2's every 30 sec, with 45degree firing arc. While saucer seperation is in effect the weapon does 1/2 dmg and fires in a wide beam cone of 90degrees.
What does that all mean? It gives the galaxy less firepower then some of its counter parts but puts its flexablity and versitlity in a much broader scope.
Galaxy would have.
More shield then excel and Sov. But on par with oddy/amb.
Less damage then the excel and Sov. But on par with oddy/amb.
More healing then the Excel and sov. But on par with oddy/amb.
Equal manuverability to all its sister ships cept excel.
More hull then its sister ships but a slightly lower impulse mod to make its acceleration a tad slower.
Saucer sep stopping the ship would prevent people from spamming it in combat to regain their saucer that die.
The galaxy x would be on par with the Sov/Excel with the turnrate able to somewhat use its cannons more effectivily. And saucer sep to really use cannons to the fullest. With modable fused weapons like the lance you could then run all AP weapons or plasma with no ill effect to your lance. It would also improve the hitrate of the actual lance blasts with +Acc lances. The over all dmg per blast would be reduced from BO3 levels to BO2 levels but would fire more often cause of the 30 sec cooldown over the 2min cooldown. Resulting in over all better performance in the ship as a whole but without unbalancing it as the lances narrow arc limits firing time on target.
The seperated lance would be like firing an instant energy based torpedo spread 1. Hits 3 in the 90 degree arc
for 5-8k dmg x2 pulses. Would be on par with a Tricobalt torpedo spread 2.
Also give the fleet defiant a .99 shield mod. A similar build to the Fleet Gal and X could be done with the KDF Neg and Gurumba, with variations to hull str and turnrates. Lots of people would love a KDF tactical Neg'var from Mirror DS9.
Post edited by jtoney3448 on
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I would say to make the galaxy correctly,the BO Layout should be LTC Uni, LT Tactical, LT SCi, Ens Uni, Comm Eng. That makes it more general explorer.
A dangerous though based on this, and a possible counter to its maneuverability issues, would be to give it: Comm Eng, Comm Uni, LT Tactical, LT Sci. That might make it desirable even with its maneuverability issues.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
T1 Constitution Refit
T2 Excelsior
T3 Ambassador
T4 Galaxy (with separation since that was in the show from the beginning...not added later)
T5 Sovereign
or
T1 Miranda
T2 Connie
T3 Excelsior
T4 Ambassador
T5 Assault Cruiser Sovereign
__ Star Cruiser Galaxy (with separation)
While that's a good idea in general, tanking is only part of the issue.
I've been flying a Star Cruiser with an Engineer character since early 2010 and while I have the Galaxy-R at my disposal thanks to the old VA token, I think the Star Cruiser is still more useful for tanking.
The shared cooldowns, teh lack of good ensign engineering abilities as well as the laughably low hull-increase for the Galaxy's...limited agility (to sum up inertia and turnrate in one word) make her very much undesirable to me.
And I'm actually a fan of the Galaxy class so I wanted to like this one too.
If you want to fly a galaxy you should be off scanning anomalies for data samples, delivering aid to needy systems, and doing those foundry missions that say "no combat, heavy dialog." If you want to excel at fighting, there's plenty of ships well suited for it. The galaxy isn't, and never was, one of them. It's a ship for carrying around children, dolphins, and endangered species. Hosting diplomatic functions. Hauling supplies, evacuating colonies, being tormented by omnipotent beings.
Leave the combat to those ships that can do it well, or else resign yourself to doing it poorly.
You mean the bot belly pig one.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
I agree, in a encyclopedia she would be next to the definition of ulgy
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/galaxy.html
That gives a nice summary of the Galaxy class ship. The ship needs to be fixed to bring it up to where it should be. I think the easiest way to fix the ship would actually be to just adjust the power distribution of the ship where instead of the normal accross the board power boost the cruiser classes get, gine the Galaxy class a +10 to all subsystems. This will allow for more power to be placed into subsystems to aid with the speed and recovery abilities of the ship as well as a slight boost to the weapon systems.
The weapons do need one farther increase. Numerous times it has been seen and discussed the natural 5 torpedo spread of the ships class as well as the 10 phaser bank arrays. The weapon layout is fine with 4 weapon placements fore and aft on the ship, but the torpedoes could be increased, similar to the wide angle quantum torps of the Soviergn refit, an addition of 2 equipable rapid fire photon torpedo launchers on the ship would solve many of the weapon firepower issues.
Unfortunately no ship will ever be perfect. We have all been spoiled by our own favorite ships not only always beating the bad guys to a pulp, but it always had the best crew ever. I will agree with many people on here though when they say the Galaxy is underpowered and flawed, but not as badly as some on the forums have said at times.
1. The Enterprise was the ship sent to slow down the Borg and given what we see of the Battle of Wolf 359, the Galaxy class was the only one that was not practically wiped away by the Borg ship.
2. The science focus of this ship class is certainly dominant in the show, but it is not really represented in this game aside from the 3rd science console slot.
3. Even though she was certainly somewhat undergunned for her size, there were still instances where her unusally high armament (for a single ship anyway) was mentioned, like in "The Enemy".
So while it would have certainly been possible to place the same armament in a smaller ship, it seemed from the context that no such ship actually existed.
That doesn't mean I personally want the Galaxy to be more combat-oriented, but it would certainly be nice if she was represented as the ship she was shown to be.
And that was not a warship, but a very tough and useful ship that puts brains before guns.
Also, if we go with the "she was not designed to do X" logic, the Nova class was clearly mentioned as being tatically inferior to the Interprid class in "Equinox".
Does this mean that in this game the Fleet Nova class should be inferior to the Fleet Intrepid? If so then why is this not the case?
p.s. the page you linked to admits in its FAQ that a large portion of the text is just fanfiction;)
Unfortunately I don't think ships will be fixed till there is some flexability in the layout of the ships. Most of us have a favorite ship from the shows, but the ship was also the crew. When looking at ships and how they fare with other crews, its always a bit dissapointing. The U.S.S. Odysey....went about 2 min before the Jem'Didar wrecked them. The Defiant class ship crewed by the Alpha Squad kids, got wrecked pretty quick when they fought a big ship. Kirk's Enterprise was the only Constitution class ship to survive the line.
At this point I see no way to fix the ships other than to make them completely customizable, but that wouldn't fix ships, it would stop some complaints.
Well Dora is going to get blown to smithereens.
Well while you're out there exploring and doing your thing, what happens when the enemy runs across you and decides that you being here is a problem? What will you do throw your arms up and say "Don't shoot I'm unarmed."
No one in their right minds would let a ship because it is unarmed and filled with children explore their territory. It's basically am operational spy ship, sending back critical data to Star Command about the inner workings of my sovereign space under the pretense that it is just exploring.
If I saw this I would either confiscate the ship or kill you and them children. The way I see it is Star Fleet didn't care that they sent kids out in a ship without weapons to defend itself. Why should I. Hell, an adult is somebodies kid that just happened to be alive long enough to grow up... obviously by not flying in a Galaxy R.
Begining to make you wonder what that R stands for....
You're observing it from the wrong angle. In Star Trek, the Galaxy had the best and most powerfull weapons technology installed. The point is, before the Borg showing up at Earth's doorstep and making the 'Defiant' prototype, Starfleet had never made a ship that can be tagged as "warship" and beared such weaponry.
It is the Federation doctrine, it's about who they are and what values they represent. Yes, they sent these ships in deep space. But their point was always exploration and friendly contact. That's why the Galaxy can take on a Borg cube, because it could take the amount of beating not even the Borg could imagine. The Starfleet engineers' main focus was making the Galaxy durable so that the families and children would survive almost everything they could imagine because of the ship never blowing up.
They never intended a single Galaxy to be commisioned to deep space where it will blow up the unknown at their own discretion. The idea I see it was, if such a big trouble shows up out of nowhere, the Galaxy can take all the beating and live long enough to warp out or get away from the situation. I don't think that blowing up ships of some unknown race was a solution for Starfleet, even if they were advesarial. You can see this type of behavior in TNG. They wanted their values preserved and their reputation clear, and their ships reflected this. They wanted to be known as the peacefull, helpfull, humane and highly evolved coalition, so around the galaxy when someone talks of the Federation they would be seen as the nice guys. Not OMG here comes a Galaxy they'll blow us up because we are different and we don't fit in their values.
Just my humble point of view on the issue.
With the latest weapons, armour and shields, plus an onboard transwarp drive that's finally working. It's hard to see how even the Soverign refit is a better suited to fighting the current war.
The Ambasador is a great transition away from the Excelcior's flying tank into what I think is a great finesse driven ship. The Galaxy, and Soviergn class have both been profound dissappointments to me. While I will admit to never having been a fan of the Galaxy class ship, I do think it deserved to have a wider breath of abilities. I have no real problem with the armorments or console layout of the ship, (name one that didn't meet a bad end) but it does need something to show the fact that it was meant to be the new top line ship of the line. A commander slot and 2 lt.Commander slots may be close to what I mean. The crew on it is huge, so more officers would make sence to me. I never expected the ship to turn on a dime, but it barely turns on a planet.
The Soviergn is possibly a bigger dissappointment to me than the Galaxy. This should be the Defiant class ships bigger brother.
I feel the only true solution is not feesable. The way that the 3 pack ships have come out are a great start. Different class ships should be just that. The ships of that class are built for a reason, so as a result there should be very distince advantages and disadvantages to playing a particular class of ship.
Then there is off screen references via the ST: Tech manuals to the Galaxy being the most powerful starships fighting in the Dominion War (since the Sovereign and Ent-E werent involved) and on screen in DS9 combat they were strapping some lead on dominion ships. Seems the TNG crew just couldnt fight the ship in space combat worth a TRIBBLE except vs the Borg...gotta keep things intense for screen purposes I guess.
Of course some clown always brings up the Ent-D being owned in Generations. Of course the Klinks did have to use an exploit to penetrate the shields or they had no chance...no chance in hell. Considering when the Ent-D took the pounding it did with no shields and just one photon destroyed the BoP when its shields got dropped. But they had to bring us the Sovvy somehow. Just saying.
Of the Enterprise "classes" in this game I'm absolutely certain the NX and the Constitution both out-turn the Excelsior.
the tech manuals also references the galaxy class having a modular interior being able to be set up and any number of ways for any mission from deep space exploration to boarder defense.
the DS9 manual also states the weapon systems on the second 6 galaxy class ships built where up rated ie the uss venture that had the phaser strips on the top of the nacelles
i still would like that costume option for the galaxy even if no phaser animations come form them
I would also like the USS Venture nacelle phaser strips. Perhaps that could be a Fleet Galaxy costume feature?
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Here's one other person that honestly does share his view (about the Galaxy Class' 'looks') and has since 1987. I have no comment on buffing the ship per se except to say even in the shows it was stated to be more a moving science lab than a front line ship for combat.
The Sovereign is newer and built as more of a combat ship, so it should be better in combat.
The Excelsior Refit is most likely based off the U.S.S. Lakota refit from the DS9 series (which went toe to toe with the U.S.S. Defiant and could have won. So again, don't see how the Galaxy should necessarily outclass such a specific refit.
You might have an argument with the Ambassador; but again, the ship is mpre maneuverable in canon; and was built during a time the Klingon Empire was almost about to go to war with the Federation; so with modern 25th century tech, again, don't see why the Ambassador should be a bear in a fight or maneuver better then the more massive Galaxy class.
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Let's remember that the Galaxy was built during a time when the federation was involved in conflict with both the Tholians (as seen in The Icarus Factor) and the Cardassians (as seen in The Wounded).
So I don't really buy the assertion that the Ambassador was built during war-time but the Galaxy was built during peace time bit. The backstory that eventually got filled in during TNG's own 7 year run sets up that the Federation was at conflict or even all out war with at least two other governments during the time the Galaxy was being planned and constructed.
That being said, neither the Ambassador NOR the Galaxy are warships. They weren't built to be a response to the conflicts that were going on in their eras. Neither was the Excelsior. Or the Constitution.
The Enterprise has at least been pretty consistent about what it's ongoing mission has always been.