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Swearing in Trek
silverjdgmntdrgn
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
This is probably going to sound like a strange question but hiw far should one go when having a character swear?
I ask this because I write a short story series based off of my STO crew and often I have my captain swear. I'm just never sure which words are fitting for this canon. I've had characters drop "damn" and "hell" but I'm not sure how much farther to take it.
Thought I would ask and see what kind of concensus I could get.
I ask this because I write a short story series based off of my STO crew and often I have my captain swear. I'm just never sure which words are fitting for this canon. I've had characters drop "damn" and "hell" but I'm not sure how much farther to take it.
Thought I would ask and see what kind of concensus I could get.
Post edited by silverjdgmntdrgn on
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You forget Miles O'Brien in the DS9 Ep Time's Orphan, he used a certain 8 letter B word that is unrepeatable here
OP, as far as I'm concerned, use any language you like. Maybe stick a parental advisory warning or something in the top of the description if it really bothers you.
The S word here was totally justified. I mean... Have you seen Troi's driving...? First time at the conn, and she hits a planet. :rolleyes:
In the original series, it was hard to gauge precisely what it meant, as it was normally only used as a general curse, so could have meant 'damn' (although the sound should've been a clue...) In Nu BG, the usage became a lot more specific, and I heard someone referred to as a 'motherfrakker"...
Frak frakkity frak frak frak...
I'll have characters swear if it's in context, but never just for the sake of it. As for keeping it PG13... Why? The majority of Trek fans are going to be quite old enough to have their own PG13 viewers, so why bother? IMHO Self-censorship is the sign of a timid writer... Equally, being unnecessarily sensationalist is also the sgn of a weak writer... I saw write what you want, but keep it within context, and you shouldn't have any complaints from your readership :cool:
That had me in stitches
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I would say that if you keep that in mind, unless the much more "perfect" humans of the Federation eschewed such expressions entirely (I very much doubt that), you can use whatever you want. That said, I think it would take Picard quite a bit to start swearing in earnest, though he's used a foul word or two in his day.
Commanders in particular seem like they would tend to have sufficient practiced eloquence to restrain their speech in most cases.
A grizzled combat vet, on the other hand, would probably use whatever they felt like assuming a disapproving commander wasn't nearby to hear it - and maybe even if they were if they were under fire.
That said, don't forget to toss in some alien foul language. I'm sure most races have been creative in this regard!
I keep it to about PG-13 more because that's just the way the characters take it. I do very little, if any planning before I write a story and it just happens to end up around the area of PG-13. Not to say I haven't crossed that line, but I want to make it accessible to any trek fan, from new ones (who may or may not fit into the above PG-13 or above bracket) to the die hard fans. So if that means I'm a weak or timid writer, then ok.
As for readership... I have no idea how much of a reader base I have. No one ever comments if they do, and that is with the stories posted to LiveJournal, Tumblr, and DeviantArt. I even have a Formspring account for my captain. A link to the LJ one used to be in my sig...but that was before PWE took the helm, so I have no idea if it's still there.
No idea if this has sparked any interest in the stories themselves, but here goes the shameless plug:
Tumblr
LiveJournal
DeviantArt
Formspring
How's this.;)
People fail to realize that most of your greatest literary artists seldom, and some never, used profanity. Tolkien comes to mind. LOTR did not have ONE cuss word in it, and even as a movie scored major at the box offices. Star Trek may have some examples of cussing, but it has always been by far considered clean and family friendly.
I enjoy writing, and I like to make sure anyone can read my stories and not be offended by the content, and yet can be entertained. It is a challenge at times, when you are writing about a very gruff person that probably in real life would cuss up a storm. It is however possible to relate that without writing it.
"Horden the Lip let out such curses that even Steel was taken aback"
On the other hand, if you come to a point such as:
The captain lowered his head as his friend's vessel exploded on the screen.
"Were you able to get him, Commander," he asked, but he knew the answer even before the commander shook his head.
"Damn."
If you feel it needs to be written out, make it mean something to the plot, not just because the character uses the word.
Luke told the waiter to get out of his room, and to put the tray of offending food in a place that the waiter was sure it could not fit.
Another way to do it. Leaves it open to the person's own mind. That could mean in his ear, or other places.
Just advice, along with others. Hope it helps to enrich your stories, and broaden your descriptions.
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else. -Einstein
First time at the conn and she still manages a successful hard landing... saving everyone in the saucer, including Spot. I remember one time I peered over a friend's shoulder at a flightsim he was playing. He let me take over the landing. Everyone died as my plane nosedived vertically into the runway. So give Troi some credit...
... wait what am I saying... YOU LET TROI PILOT THE SHIP? WTF RIKER? GEORDI COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB WITHOUT HIS VISOR!
I know exactly what you mean. I don't write for kudos or praise, I write for the pleasure of writing, but it is frustrating when no one can take the time to give commentary or critique, as without it, it is impossible to gauge how well received work is, or what I need to do to develop as a writer
Likewise, I don't necessarily write to be offensive, although I do strive to be challenging in my writing: to make people think and question opinions and viewpoints on subjects. However, with regards greatest literary artists and profanity, I would have to mention the works of Shakespeare... Considered to be sophisticated, and Serious Business in terms of performance, but, in his day, Shakespeare would have held the kind of position which Tarantino had back in the 90s, and would have been considered every bit as rude as Tarantino's movies...
Wish I could remember who said that.
In any case, what I would take from it is this. Think about who your characters are and what situation they're in. If it feels right that they would swear, have them swear. If not, then don't.
"You, sir, have an acted-upon Oedipal complex."
"I have compiled a list of possible candidates for you to engage in recreational pseudo-copulation with."
"I'm the only person on this list."
"Indeed."
"Janeway can be a rather self-important and caustic shrew, wouldn't you agree?"
"Quite."
"Go eat a Richard, my good man."
"Crewman Yates reminds me an incident I saw on Risa. A transport skiff carrying exotic Denobulan vinegar hit a bit of turbulence and one of the barrels fell out of the back. It landed square in the middle of a small wading pool of fresh water. The barrel pretty much just exploded and the sound it made...wow."
"Oh, was it a giant d-"
"Just so!"
You get the idea, surely.
Agreed, but look how Shakespear did it. He used masterful wording to get the point across instead of having to resort to the one shot shocker, that really doesn't shock anymore.
I am no hypocrite, Desperation, The Regulators, The Dark Tower trilogy....all good books, and Steven King did not exactly watch his language. LOL
However, he also was not writing on an open forum. There are ways of getting around cussing, without losing the feel of the character, if that is who the character is. There are ways of making a character a "player" without ever introducing one sex scene. Literary challenges like those are what really gets a novice writer to challenge themselves, and usually make a better literary work. Just my opinion. Not intended to be an argument even to your quote above, as I can actually agree with you as well.
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else. -Einstein
Absolutely, I quite agree with you. I don't think there is necessarily a need to have a character swearing unnecessarily, especially when Star Trek was always written a certain way, but equally, I think that to adhere too strictly to that format, can become an unnecessary restriction. I think that the only way to put it, is that it's all about context: Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes it's not...
The Voyage Home:
Spock: Your use of language has altered since our arrival. It is currently laced with, shall we say, more colorful metaphors, "double dumbass on you" and so forth.
Kirk: Oh, you mean the profanity?
Spock: Yes.
Kirk: Well that's simply the way they talk here. Nobody pays any attention to you unless you swear every other word.
Spock: They like you very much, but they are not the hell "your" whales.
Dr. Gillian Taylor: I suppose they told you that.
Spock: The hell they did.
Actually, this is pretty much the way I have the captain swear up a storm, one of such tirade aimed at Franklin Drake. I forget the name of the mission I based the story on, but it's the one where it turns out to be a holodeck simulation set up by Drake. (As a side note: Myself and two other friends have a sort of combines head-canon, which combines our three ships and crews in-universe and takes major ques from the game but does not follow it to the letter, and none of us like Franklin Drake. Nothing against him in general, but he has pulled several **** moves in the missions involving him.)
Oddly enough, sex and the like has been rather low on the totem pole as it were in regards to my characters, even though the only male characters (at least in major roles) are the captain and the Chief Engineer. There are more minor characters that are recurring, but not senior officers, that are male. The rest (Science Officer, First Officer, Security Chief, CMO) are all female. This is compounded by the fact I have (and don't ask me for a reason why, part of it is a long story, the other is it just happened) the Chief Engineer, who is Bajoran, and the First Officer, who is Andorian (this is the one that's a long story) in a relationship. One would think "bow chicka wow wow" moments would happen more frequently in a set up like that.
Especially with a captain whose nickname is "Long John"...
Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?
The shows are restricted by broadcast standards, but I think it feels about right for Starfleet officers. These are very erudite characters with an education that'd make present-day Oxford look like kindergarten, living in an idealistic society with no concept of poverty or crime. Even if the shows were on a premium channel, I wouldn't expect most of them to swear any more than they already do: their language seems tame by our standards, but their whole culture is much tamer than ours, so it makes sense. If a Trek story deals with another layer of Federation society, though, like mercenaries or colonists, they might drop a lot more bombs. Still, if you want the story to sound Trekkish, I'd suggest swapping anything stronger than hell or damn with Klingon. I'm not sure what "go TRIBBLE yourself" is in Klingon, but I'll bet it gets the point across.
Edit: Apparently it's "jaH ngagh tlhej SoH'egh." That could come in handy sometime...
Well there you go. In fact, Drake is an antagonist of my current story with Luke, and the reason he is going "rogue". I tend to not involve canon characters directly, or if I do, not very deep in the story (personal thing for me, not against it. They put them out there, I think people should be able to use them), so it's his representatives that Luke will deal with, so that Drake in the end could always say he had nothing to do with it.
Drake does seem like a character that many characters would love to let loose some colorful words on. lol
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else. -Einstein
My grandfather was a tough guy. During WWII he was a Navy SEABEE, building airfields and things all over the Pacific. After the war he was ironworker, responsible for building - among other things - much of Disneyland and the Vincent Thomas Bridge that spans Long Beach Harbor.
He always told me "Folks only swear 'cuz their too stupid to think of anything else to say."
Coincidentally, here's a list of Klingon swear words and approximate English equivelents:
baQa' - TRIBBLE, or s---
ghuy' - damn
ghuy'cha - a stronger version of the above
Hu'tegh - strong ivective with no direct English equivelent; usually precedes and intensifies the word petaQ
jay' - sentence modifier placed at the end, similar to inserting "the hell" or "the f---" into a question. The intensity is somewhere between these two. Example: qaStaH nuq (what's going on) becomes qaStaH nuq jay' (what the ---- is going on)
petaQ - most commonly-used Klingon insult, similar to b
or a
Qovpatlh - uworthy or insignificant person
Qu'vatlh - literally "a hundred tasks"; an expression of frustration
QI'yaH - one of the strongest expletives in the Klingon language with no direct English equivelent (it would take a combination of several words, none of which are printable, to express this in English.)
toDSaH - wimp or wuss
yIntagh - idiot or moron
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
"Luud zurklich ja'koo, zzock ja'tann!"