Well the fleet I'm in is going through the tearful process of trying to join another fleet as we're too small now to continue. I hear a lot of this "You should recruit more", "You recruit by PMing and getting to know people" and all sorts of other stuff.
Myself and 2 other players from my fleet regularly do elite space STFs and get complimented on how fast we get them done, how nice and friendly we are and carry the team but as soon as we mention joining our fleet, they ask how many people in the fleet and then you get no response if you're a small fleet.
Here's the thing. No-one wants to join a small fleet or join one that is T3 or lower as they will have to put effort into getting the goodies. When we look at the mammoth task it has been to get our SB to T3 and realise that it will take at least 5 times (more like 7 times) longer to get to T5 you realise it just isn't worth it as we're not having fun anymore and in the 2-3 years it will take JUST to get the starbase to T5 there is an embassy and who knows what else will come out.
Not to mention, the game may not even be around by the time you're done.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I understand it and i conquer it. for anyone who want real solution contact me. crying over spill milk get you no where. it not hard but you have to work for it. nothing is just handle to you. start listening to stoke radio many of us are willing to help. make this game fun for all. what this game all about it about good old fashion fun for the love of star trek.
Oh... and two people getting all fleet aspects to tier 2; with Diplomacy tier 1 counting down; Recuitment 2 projects away from it reaching tier 1 project start...is not hard work?
Stupid... maybe. Hard work.... definitely.
What you don't seem to want to comprehend is that some people in this world do not play well with others, and are ok with that.
That some of us anti-socialites like to play video games that are Star Trek based, and that unfortunately the best offering at this time is STO, an MMO, how ironic.
I trust people I know, personally not electronically. As nice as you may be, and all the other members of your fleet may be, just how many are there at the top of your leadership? Are these co-leaders people you have only met here? Do you know them personally?
Some of us see this as simply a video game and not a social experiment. Yes I enjoy playing amounst / with / and against other living beings, but that doesn't mean I would invite them into my home.
We small fleets simply want the opportunity to "finish" the game. No I don't need to finish it as fast as larger fleets, but I would like to before the end arrives.... either mine or the games.
I have posted a scaled fleet proposal. I understand from some non-directed posts by people in large social fleets (irony again) that this would lessen larger fleets individual contributions, and agree. I suggested a Fleet Module Upgrade that should a fleet want to increase its membership, that the price should cover the discount we benifited from by being at a lower scale level. I even added to this an additional tax to the completion time, inputs and fleet purchases.
I even have another proposal, the roach motel fleet. Once members go in, they don't come out. It would be scaled progession system like I have described in some detail, with your character locked to it forever. I would seriously consider paying Cryptic for this option. And how could such a fine fleet like your's have any issues with a few micro fleets finishing projects a full 6 months or more behind yours. We could sure help your members during PUG matches with top rate gear.
You speak from a tier 5 throne that some of us less social members keep seeing drift further away based on the Developers whims.
Please listen and try to have some real compassion.
And congratulations on your recent tier 5 fleet status. I am happy for you.... mostly.
For about the sixth time, zombie fleets are not a universal solution.
I guess I missed the part where people are demanding that T5 starbases be handed out for free to everyone. All people are asking for is equality of access without having to surrender their playstyle, their independence, and their identity to a mega-fleet. 95% of players are willing to put in meaningful effort for a meaningful reward.
If you actually believed that you'd be participating in the discussion beyond repeating the tired refrain of "recruit hundreds of complete strangers into your fleets".
Which is absolutely not what the current fleet holding system engenders.
I feel you want the easy way out. this is what the game is. We suffer so many time in T.F.S but we got together and came up with solution that work. Not cry on the forums
I didn't want to read through ten pages of sob stories, ******** and arrogant replies from people in smaller fleets expecting to have access to Tier 5 goods quickly; but I read it anyway.
The game wont change. No matter how much you cry about it here because you want your fleet of five friends to have an easy time leveling up a starbase and embassy.
Apart from the fact it would be exploited to hell and back, scaling starbase growth would require alot of developers time to change the current system. It wont happen.
The way the current Fleet Holdings system works is what we have to use. To be blunt, deal with it.
Everyone knew what this would entail before the starbases were available, we all knew what would be required and how much resources would be needed. Anyone who thinks a small fleet should be able to get there on their own is seriously misguided.
Growth is not just about recruiting everyone you see who doesn't have a fleet.
Actively recruit players, players who show an interest in the fleet as a whole rather than a store for new gear.
To jump on the 'my fleet is dead' bandwagon, my old fleet was dead. I'd regularly be the only one online, we had at most 10 active players but still managed to reach tier three iirc.
That fleet wasn't going anywhere, as are many other fleets ingame.
Complaining here that a small fleet has a hard time wont get you anywhere.
The best thing for you to do is merge some fleets. It really is. Don't bother starting up a new small fleet and expect to get an easy ride, it wont happen. You only get out of life what you put in, so make some effort in a large fleet and you will enjoy your online time much more.
Or even buy some tier four or five gear from fleets who are selling them.
As for trust, I certainly do trust Dura and other officers of TFS. I've never met any of them face to face, but they give me no reason to feel uneasy, exploited or unwelcome. The fact that TFS has survived this long, has so many active members who enjoy being part of the fleet, and has maintained its ability to grow even now; is testament to the leadership.
In all seriousness though, starting these sort of posts, these silly little spats and flame wars because people dont understand or refuse to accept the Starbase system, is just pointless.
I didn't want to read through ten pages of sob stories, ******** and arrogant replies from people in smaller fleets expecting to have access to Tier 5 goods quickly; but I read it anyway.
As opposed to the arrogant and entitled pissing of a fleet with hundreds of members scared that if requirements are somehow made reasonable for non-zerg fleets their superiority will be challenged? Or did you actually have a point in there beyond "look at us we're awesome, now join us or **** off"?
In all seriousness though, starting these sort of posts, these silly little spats and flame wars because people dont understand or refuse to accept the Starbase system, is just pointless.
And insulting everyone who doesn't care for the drama, politics, restrictions and stupidity that inherently come with ginormous fleets has a point?
As opposed to the arrogant and entitled pissing of a fleet with hundreds of members scared that if requirements are somehow made reasonable for non-zerg fleets their superiority will be challenged? Or did you actually have a point in there beyond "look at us we're awesome, now join us or **** off"?
And insulting everyone who doesn't care for the drama, politics, restrictions and stupidity that inherently come with ginormous fleets has a point?
At what point did I say you should join us? And i certainly do not tell people to "**** off".
Wether we have hundreds of members or fifty, we are all focused on helping eachother and helping the fleet grow. We don't squabble, don't take the game super seriously, we don't ***** about things out of our control (except for some of these silly patches).
We aren't a zerg fleet, we don't recruit anyone and everyone in order to level up quickly; we are tier five because of our members and our leadership. Not because we have alot of people on our roster.
Plenty of fleets are huge, with hundreds of members but they are not all in the same position as us. We are focused and dedicated, I'm not in any way saying other fleets aren't, but that is how we got to where we are and we're still going strong.
I'm not insulting anyone, simply pointing out the futility of such a post; and the constant dribble from forum users, like yourself, who use this as an opportunity to attack others.
I have a proposal for allowing multiple fleets to contribute to the same project and share its benefits. It allows small fleets to pool their resources, and does not require scaling back project requirements (either by fleet size or universally). Since the proposal is somewhat long, I have put it in a separate thread.
I have a proposal for allowing multiple fleets to contribute to the same project and share its benefits. It allows small fleets to pool their resources, and does not require scaling back project requirements (either by fleet size or universally). Since the proposal is somewhat long, I have put it in a separate thread.
Don't bother starting up a new small fleet and expect to get an easy ride, it wont happen. You only get out of life what you put in, so make some effort in a large fleet and you will enjoy your online time much more.
Or even buy some tier four or five gear from fleets who are selling them.
In all seriousness though, starting these sort of posts, these silly little spats and flame wars because people dont understand or refuse to accept the Starbase system, is just pointless.
You fly in, swinging at anyone who disagrees with you and throw around accusations that they're lazy, entitled TRIBBLE who want things handed to them when that is markedly the opposite of what is being asked for.
Countless fleets of every size, from 5-mans to 100+ man groups, are asking for one thing and one thing only: to be able to make meaningful progress in the holding system without sacrificing their identities as autonomous fleets by being forced into merges with others.
People are more than willing to do the work, all they want is a chance to complete said work sometime before they die of old age.
That makes alot more sense. Similar to merging fleets, but retaining individual fleets, rather than some scaled projects.
If you wish to support the proposal, would you mind commenting in the thread I've created. Maybe, if it gets enough comments, the devs will actually read it. I also posted a comment in Dan Stahl's thread, but I'm afraid it will get lost in the now 40+ pages of comments.
You fly in, swinging at anyone who disagrees with you and throw around accusations that they're lazy, entitled TRIBBLE who want things handed to them when that is markedly the opposite of what is being asked for.
Countless fleets of every size, from 5-mans to 100+ man groups, are asking for one thing and one thing only: to be able to make meaningful progress in the holding system without sacrificing their identities as autonomous fleets by being forced into merges with others.
People are more than willing to do the work, all they want is a chance to complete said work sometime before they die of old age.
You just picked a few random quotes and hope they back up your nonsense?... poor effort.
I specifically said I'm not saying people are lazy, just that we are focused on our goal.
And I'm swinging at you because you have been on the offensive from the word go.
You say that fleets are askng for one thing, but thats a very vague and indirect response to what I said. You could be a politician.
You are asking for the whole system to be restructured to cater for small fleets. Might as well be asking for it on a silver platter. You are asking for someone to make it easy for small fleets because they either don't want to or cant be bothered to, accept the way the game is. Theres no two ways about it. Dress it up as much as you like, but thats what you are asking for.
I'm all in favour of everyone getting the most out of the game, but trying to make such a radical change to a major aspect of the game is just ludicrous.
The Devs dont have the time or resources to do so, even if they wanted to. The current system works as it was intended, and pretty much flawlessly considering the usual track record of bugs in this game.
You just picked a few random quotes and hope they back up your nonsense?... poor effort.
I specifically said I'm not saying people are lazy, just that we are focused on our goal.
You are asking for someone to make it easy for small fleets because they either don't want to or cant be bothered to, accept the way the game is. Theres no two ways about it. Dress it up as much as you like, but thats what you are asking for.
I'm all in favour of everyone getting the most out of the game, but trying to make such a radical change to a major aspect of the game is just ludicrous.
The Devs dont have the time or resources to do so, even if they wanted to. The current system works as it was intended, and pretty much flawlessly considering the usual track record of bugs in this game.
As opposed to radically re-inventing STFs? Re-inventing the entire skill tree? Reinventing weapons, skills, and equipment? Recycling content into reputation systems? I'm sure the devs didn't have time to do any of that either.
If you want to have an actual conversation about making fleet holdings amenable to all players from all different factions, playstyles and outlooks, than have one. Don't insult a large portion of the playerbase that has absolutely no interest in playing the game "your way". Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not. Have there been multiple suggestions that have generated some good ideas out of this thread? You bet. Did you just fly in and TRIBBLE all over the people who are trying to make things better for everyone because they would change the paradigm that has you and your fleet on top? You better believe you just did. Repeatedly.
I'm trying to have a conversation, but you are obviously in a single mind set that anything that isn't an agreement with you must be wrong and is a personal attack which must not be tolerated.
You are a very experienced keyboard warrior, with exceptional skills to misread what is said and twist meanings.
If you are bluntly saying that my comments are implying that everyone is lazy; then you obviously intend the devs to hand small fleets everything, albeit for a nominal and much reduced recourse cost.
You admit you don't have the answers, indeed no one does. Yet you still argue that everything else is wrong and that you are right.
I'm not here to put people down like you insist on doing. Everything has two sides, I'm here to show the other side of the debate that you don't seem to think either exists or is not relevant.
Sorry sirricwin, but from what I keep hearing from you is you never actually ever had to work your TRIBBLE off like around 95% of the players in the game have. Just because you are in a extremely huge active Fleet you expect everyone else in the entire game to do the same. Sorry but that is never ever going to happen.
If you are bluntly saying that my comments are implying that everyone is lazy; then you obviously intend the devs to hand small fleets everything, albeit for a nominal and much reduced recourse cost.
Coming from the person who flat out accused anyone of wanting a reduction in holding costs of being lazy and entitled, that's just hilarious. The overwhelming majority of fleets, mine included, don't want things handed to us. We're more than willing to work towards things, so long as there is a reasonable endpoint that doesn't require years of grinding.
You admit you don't have the answers, indeed no one does. Yet you still argue that everything else is wrong and that you are right.
Incorrect. I'm arguing that the status quo, which you are championing, is untenable, inadequate and highly destructive to small and medium sized fleets. All you've done is say "you want T5 starbase, join zerg fleet. Be like me, otherwise you lazy and greedy".
I'm not here to put people down like you insist on doing. Everything has two sides, I'm here to show the other side of the debate that you don't seem to think either exists or is not relevant.
And yet you've now made multiple posts villifying the simple concept of smaller fleets having a reasonable expectation of finishing a starbase sometime this decade. I've made it very clear what I oppose: zerg-fleets to fix all your ills, and the starbase status quo. Put forward a solution that allows equitable access for fleets of all sizes, and we'll talk.
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn?t providing any civilised discussion, so due to this as well as the high number of flaming/trolling posts and/or reported posts in this thread, I'm closing this thread down.
For future reference please remember that it helps a great deal when posts which violate the PWE Community Rules and Policies are not responded to and are reported via submitting a Forums and Website Ticket (click here).
If you think any of your posts within a thread have violated the PWE Community Rules and Policies, please edit your posts before a moderator takes action.
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Cheers,
syberghost
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Comments
Not to mention, the game may not even be around by the time you're done.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I know *crys*
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Oh... and two people getting all fleet aspects to tier 2; with Diplomacy tier 1 counting down; Recuitment 2 projects away from it reaching tier 1 project start...is not hard work?
Stupid... maybe. Hard work.... definitely.
What you don't seem to want to comprehend is that some people in this world do not play well with others, and are ok with that.
That some of us anti-socialites like to play video games that are Star Trek based, and that unfortunately the best offering at this time is STO, an MMO, how ironic.
I trust people I know, personally not electronically. As nice as you may be, and all the other members of your fleet may be, just how many are there at the top of your leadership? Are these co-leaders people you have only met here? Do you know them personally?
Some of us see this as simply a video game and not a social experiment. Yes I enjoy playing amounst / with / and against other living beings, but that doesn't mean I would invite them into my home.
We small fleets simply want the opportunity to "finish" the game. No I don't need to finish it as fast as larger fleets, but I would like to before the end arrives.... either mine or the games.
I have posted a scaled fleet proposal. I understand from some non-directed posts by people in large social fleets (irony again) that this would lessen larger fleets individual contributions, and agree. I suggested a Fleet Module Upgrade that should a fleet want to increase its membership, that the price should cover the discount we benifited from by being at a lower scale level. I even added to this an additional tax to the completion time, inputs and fleet purchases.
I even have another proposal, the roach motel fleet. Once members go in, they don't come out. It would be scaled progession system like I have described in some detail, with your character locked to it forever. I would seriously consider paying Cryptic for this option. And how could such a fine fleet like your's have any issues with a few micro fleets finishing projects a full 6 months or more behind yours. We could sure help your members during PUG matches with top rate gear.
You speak from a tier 5 throne that some of us less social members keep seeing drift further away based on the Developers whims.
Please listen and try to have some real compassion.
And congratulations on your recent tier 5 fleet status. I am happy for you.... mostly.
I feel you want the easy way out. this is what the game is. We suffer so many time in T.F.S but we got together and came up with solution that work. Not cry on the forums
The game wont change. No matter how much you cry about it here because you want your fleet of five friends to have an easy time leveling up a starbase and embassy.
Apart from the fact it would be exploited to hell and back, scaling starbase growth would require alot of developers time to change the current system. It wont happen.
The way the current Fleet Holdings system works is what we have to use. To be blunt, deal with it.
Everyone knew what this would entail before the starbases were available, we all knew what would be required and how much resources would be needed. Anyone who thinks a small fleet should be able to get there on their own is seriously misguided.
Growth is not just about recruiting everyone you see who doesn't have a fleet.
Actively recruit players, players who show an interest in the fleet as a whole rather than a store for new gear.
To jump on the 'my fleet is dead' bandwagon, my old fleet was dead. I'd regularly be the only one online, we had at most 10 active players but still managed to reach tier three iirc.
That fleet wasn't going anywhere, as are many other fleets ingame.
Complaining here that a small fleet has a hard time wont get you anywhere.
The best thing for you to do is merge some fleets. It really is. Don't bother starting up a new small fleet and expect to get an easy ride, it wont happen. You only get out of life what you put in, so make some effort in a large fleet and you will enjoy your online time much more.
Or even buy some tier four or five gear from fleets who are selling them.
As for trust, I certainly do trust Dura and other officers of TFS. I've never met any of them face to face, but they give me no reason to feel uneasy, exploited or unwelcome. The fact that TFS has survived this long, has so many active members who enjoy being part of the fleet, and has maintained its ability to grow even now; is testament to the leadership.
In all seriousness though, starting these sort of posts, these silly little spats and flame wars because people dont understand or refuse to accept the Starbase system, is just pointless.
As opposed to the arrogant and entitled pissing of a fleet with hundreds of members scared that if requirements are somehow made reasonable for non-zerg fleets their superiority will be challenged? Or did you actually have a point in there beyond "look at us we're awesome, now join us or **** off"?
And insulting everyone who doesn't care for the drama, politics, restrictions and stupidity that inherently come with ginormous fleets has a point?
At what point did I say you should join us? And i certainly do not tell people to "**** off".
Wether we have hundreds of members or fifty, we are all focused on helping eachother and helping the fleet grow. We don't squabble, don't take the game super seriously, we don't ***** about things out of our control (except for some of these silly patches).
We aren't a zerg fleet, we don't recruit anyone and everyone in order to level up quickly; we are tier five because of our members and our leadership. Not because we have alot of people on our roster.
Plenty of fleets are huge, with hundreds of members but they are not all in the same position as us. We are focused and dedicated, I'm not in any way saying other fleets aren't, but that is how we got to where we are and we're still going strong.
I'm not insulting anyone, simply pointing out the futility of such a post; and the constant dribble from forum users, like yourself, who use this as an opportunity to attack others.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8082821
Please read.
That makes alot more sense. Similar to merging fleets, but retaining individual fleets, rather than some scaled projects.
Oh really...
You fly in, swinging at anyone who disagrees with you and throw around accusations that they're lazy, entitled TRIBBLE who want things handed to them when that is markedly the opposite of what is being asked for.
Countless fleets of every size, from 5-mans to 100+ man groups, are asking for one thing and one thing only: to be able to make meaningful progress in the holding system without sacrificing their identities as autonomous fleets by being forced into merges with others.
People are more than willing to do the work, all they want is a chance to complete said work sometime before they die of old age.
If you wish to support the proposal, would you mind commenting in the thread I've created. Maybe, if it gets enough comments, the devs will actually read it. I also posted a comment in Dan Stahl's thread, but I'm afraid it will get lost in the now 40+ pages of comments.
You just picked a few random quotes and hope they back up your nonsense?... poor effort.
I specifically said I'm not saying people are lazy, just that we are focused on our goal.
And I'm swinging at you because you have been on the offensive from the word go.
You say that fleets are askng for one thing, but thats a very vague and indirect response to what I said. You could be a politician.
You are asking for the whole system to be restructured to cater for small fleets. Might as well be asking for it on a silver platter. You are asking for someone to make it easy for small fleets because they either don't want to or cant be bothered to, accept the way the game is. Theres no two ways about it. Dress it up as much as you like, but thats what you are asking for.
I'm all in favour of everyone getting the most out of the game, but trying to make such a radical change to a major aspect of the game is just ludicrous.
The Devs dont have the time or resources to do so, even if they wanted to. The current system works as it was intended, and pretty much flawlessly considering the usual track record of bugs in this game.
So,people aren't lazy, but...
Not lazy, but lazy? That makes sense.
As opposed to radically re-inventing STFs? Re-inventing the entire skill tree? Reinventing weapons, skills, and equipment? Recycling content into reputation systems? I'm sure the devs didn't have time to do any of that either.
If you want to have an actual conversation about making fleet holdings amenable to all players from all different factions, playstyles and outlooks, than have one. Don't insult a large portion of the playerbase that has absolutely no interest in playing the game "your way". Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not. Have there been multiple suggestions that have generated some good ideas out of this thread? You bet. Did you just fly in and TRIBBLE all over the people who are trying to make things better for everyone because they would change the paradigm that has you and your fleet on top? You better believe you just did. Repeatedly.
You are a very experienced keyboard warrior, with exceptional skills to misread what is said and twist meanings.
If you are bluntly saying that my comments are implying that everyone is lazy; then you obviously intend the devs to hand small fleets everything, albeit for a nominal and much reduced recourse cost.
You admit you don't have the answers, indeed no one does. Yet you still argue that everything else is wrong and that you are right.
I'm not here to put people down like you insist on doing. Everything has two sides, I'm here to show the other side of the debate that you don't seem to think either exists or is not relevant.
Coming from the person who flat out accused anyone of wanting a reduction in holding costs of being lazy and entitled, that's just hilarious. The overwhelming majority of fleets, mine included, don't want things handed to us. We're more than willing to work towards things, so long as there is a reasonable endpoint that doesn't require years of grinding.
Incorrect. I'm arguing that the status quo, which you are championing, is untenable, inadequate and highly destructive to small and medium sized fleets. All you've done is say "you want T5 starbase, join zerg fleet. Be like me, otherwise you lazy and greedy".
And yet you've now made multiple posts villifying the simple concept of smaller fleets having a reasonable expectation of finishing a starbase sometime this decade. I've made it very clear what I oppose: zerg-fleets to fix all your ills, and the starbase status quo. Put forward a solution that allows equitable access for fleets of all sizes, and we'll talk.
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn?t providing any civilised discussion, so due to this as well as the high number of flaming/trolling posts and/or reported posts in this thread, I'm closing this thread down.
Cheers,
syberghost