test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Starbase Progression Feedback
philosophere
Member Posts: 607 Arc User
With all the issues with resource gathering (I'm looking at you FM's), why does Cryptic not introduce scaled fleet Starbases?
When you start your new fleet (and allow existing fleet leaders to make the choice); you would be required to select a membership cap at lets say 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, or the existing 500 captains. This maximum member limit would be permanent.
Then scale all SB projects contributions based on the selected max members.
Your thoughts?
When you start your new fleet (and allow existing fleet leaders to make the choice); you would be required to select a membership cap at lets say 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, or the existing 500 captains. This maximum member limit would be permanent.
Then scale all SB projects contributions based on the selected max members.
Your thoughts?
Are we there yet?
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Cryptic has said from the beginning that Fleet progression works like a bell curve with regards to members vs progression.
Small fleets will have a harder time gathering resources and advancing their starbase/embassy, while larger fleets will find end resources such as requisitions for buying fleet weapons/ships in high demand as there are more members then requistions. This was stated from the moment they announced the fleet system.
Cryptic has also stated repeatedly the reason for not scaling requirements is because it is highly exploitable. People can effectively Dismiss almost all Fleetmates, until they have a fleet size of 5 people, and then breeze through the progression until they have everything they want. New Limited project comes along. Dismiss most of your fleet, finish it in a week, grow back up again. This is what Cryptic is trying to avoid.
Yes, this results in small fleets or inactive fleets (fleets who may have larger numbers but really not many that work on fleet base progression) getting the short end of the straw, but that is an unfortunate side effect of balancing fairness into the game. Even then Cryptic has tried as best they could to accommodate smaller fleets.
Until you find a system that isn't explioted by dismissing members left and right as the "need" suits you, you are going to get the resolution you want. Even then I think really small fleets are never going to get the resolution they want. it just isn't possible.
We like it just the way it is.
It would avoid some of the issues, but IMO would be worse the the current problems.
If you had any plans to expand at some point you'd either be forced to pay the higher cost, or else be locked into a fleet of X size. Which is IMO a lose-lose.
The problem is, as others have pointed out. Small fleets of say 5-10 people are quite simply not meant to progress as fast as larger 25+ person fleets are. People keep looking for a way to fix something that I don't think is actually broken.
There is simply no good way of letting small fleets progress at what they seem to be a reasonable pace, with out making T5 a meaningless achievement for large fleets. I just don't think it's fair to large fleets to take away something from them, for the sake of those smaller fleets.
It's also not like T2 or T3 has nothing to offer, and that you must reach T5 to get anything out of the SB system.
I see it all too often on the forums, people having issues with the fleet the're in because of some BS drama stemming from a fleet trying to deal with 500 players all wanting the new shiny, or a fleet being hijacked due to a leaders decision to leave the game and sell his account.
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
"In the battle of retaking DS9 it is said that the dominion fleet consisting of 1250 outnumbers the federation fleet 2:1. This would mean at least 600 ships are present. As these ships consist of 2 fleet one of them being the 12th it seems, if the other fleets are comparable to the size of those, starfleet has at least 3600 ships at their disposal"
So following what happen on ds9 a fleet is about 300 ships that mean 300 members. 300 members can take on the starbase project with ease. start recruiting.
I have a stockpile of 50k+ dilithium and a big heaping pile of fleet marks, and I've never joined a fleet to share them with. A big part of the reason is because 95% of STO fleets don't make any effort to sell themselves to new members. The tacitly accepted recruiting method in this game is to stalk social zones looking for unaffiliated players, and send them unsolicited fleet invites without an introduction or any information about the group. The "Find Fleet" mechanic in the social window is no help, because most fleets just choose every single tag (including race tags that don't apply to their faction), and give a horribly vague description of themselves - or none at all.
I've never seen a game where player groups make less effort to draw in fresh blood, or need it more. What gives?
Here is an example. guys recruit, here is one guy show him what you have to offer him.
Nice, but if I can interject here..... this is a video game not real life.
While your idea is an interesting one, you are subjugating players that are not interested in experiencing even a whiff of fleet drama to miss out on everything this game has to offer (both in content for us the players and in the revenue generating kind for Cryptic).
50 fleets of 10 people in a properly scaled starbase system will need to collect the same amount of resources as 1 fleet of 500. So whats the big deal there? It will still be the same ratio of people to resources needed to advance.
And while everything else required for Starbase advancement can be traded/bought without limits.... Fleet marks are bound to character, so no cheating there. You need them?... then play the content that rewards them if you want to advance your fleet.
How about I give you say a 2% input discount per each fleet scale level... a 10 man fleet would need the same per person ratio of inputs plus 10% verses a 500 member one.
You speak of time frame differences based on players... since when do time frames in this game make any sense. Show me any armed services on this planet (or any other for that matter) where you can go from a green recruit to and vice admiral in a weekend?
How about we meet half way and slightly reduce the project completion times at each Starbase scale level, with the quickest project completion times reserved for 500 man fleets and the slowest for 10 man fleets. At max this should be a 6 month difference from start to finish, not 6 years as it sits now.
Worried about people abusing the system by amassing large amounts of fleet credits, then jumping to a top tier fleet to purchase high end equipment? Fleet credits stay with the fleet they are earned in.
"But the fleet I'm in sucks and its not fair!"... now you will have something in common with all those poor German and Japanese WW2 grunts. Real world enough I think.
And with scaled Starbases.... a shiny one with your name on it is within your grasp... in this lifetime...
"Our fleet is growing and we have no more room for new members!"
Enter Cryptic and the Fleet Starbase Module only obtainable from the C-Store. I'll throw out a figure of 5000 Zen per fleet level scale up. Exploitable.... ok 10,000 Zen. Still exploitable.... 20,000 Zen.
Let's let Cryptic do the math and come up with a figure. We can complain about it later....
Also this method requires no additional in game assets be created, only some back end programing magic...
And everybody likes magic right?
If you chose to be in a 5 person fleet, then you should be fine with everything that means, including the fact that you will not advance as fast as larger fleets do.
Fleet scaling will never happen, because it will be exploited like mad. There's simply no way around this. It also goes against the basic concept of the SB system, that being something for larger fleets to work together on to achieve.
You and others seem to have this misconception that the SB system was intended to be equal and that advancement should progress at the same rate for all fleets. This is simply untrue.
Not sure why this even needs to be explained...
Why in the world should 10 people have the same buying power as 500? Why should a larger group be forced to pay 50 times more for the same thing? How is this fair to those larger groups?
2) Way to use multiple examples from multiple sources to backup your assertion that a fleet should be 300 people. Also, canon and balance are two non-related variables.
3) There are plenty of fleets that are more than just one guy and his two buddies. In fact I'd be willing to lay down money that a majority of fleets exist somewhere between the "zerg fleet" and "solo fleet" extremes.
4) None of the above changes the fact that non-ginormous fleets are entirely screwed over by the current starbase and fleet holding system.
To wit: Put all fleet gear (Ships, weapons, everything) on their own public vendors (possibly in ESD/Qo'Nos). Each item would be purchased individually with provisions, fleet marks and dilith. Fleet projects would award provisions to every fleet member, instead of a singular pool that everyone in the fleet draws from.
Higher tiers of a starbase would allow for projects that awarded more provisions, therefore allowing higher tiered fleets to give their members faster access to things, but without arbitrarily locking out players from items. Players then have the choice to save up for more expensive fleet items, or splurging on cheaper, less powerful ones.
Bigger fleets still come out on top with faster and better gear acquisition, but smaller fleets arent 100% ****ed.
O, I completely agree with you. But till the devs pull your heads out of the clouds and add a coalition system into the game, small fleets with under 25 active players will be screwed over on a daily basis.
There would be no advantage in kicking members only to grow it back later as it suited you in my outlined system. Your per person input requirements would have to cover all the people you airlocked.
The only fleet changes allowed would be to increase max membership allowable and that would require purchasing a Fleet Starbase Module from the C-Store; at an amount Cryptic would have to determine; that would makeup for any discount received in leveling your base up at the lower membership level.
And just how are they doing their best to accommodate smaller fleets?
For example: A fleet gets to T5 military. One of their projects could be a create a consumable "cadre of military advisers" or something, that they could sell on the exchange. Someone could buy it to "buff" their current fleet projects by a certain percentage.
This way a smaller fleet can speed up their SB leveling, and a large fleet can make some EC without resorting to selling access to their ship yard, which I don't have a problem with personally, but it seems to rub some people the wrong way.
the idea of a fleet is to have members we have 350 active members it not that hard to get
So instead you think our larger fleet should be penalized by having our individual contributions worth less then yours is if scaling were implemented. How is that fair to us that we should be penalized just for doing what fleets are supposed to do, grow and include new players to share in the benefits of our starbase. Starbase construction system is fine as it is.
I still see a lot of random fleet invites whenever I level a new character, no recruiting message in zone, no pm, just people spamming invites. This is not how to grow a fleet, you need to talk to people so they feel like they are actually wanted, and not a just resource for a fleet to farm.
What if instead of trying to find a way around the system you grow your fleet so more players can share in the benefit of your starbase. I still see lots of new players without fleets in ESD and Sirius block everyday that could use help and many probably would be very helpful in return to a fleet that takes them in and helps them learn.
Do you not see the irony (and if I may be so bold, the absurd arrogance) of putting something like that up after posting something like this:
You apparently seem to think that your way is and should be the only way of doing anything.
So somehow, small fleets getting unscrewed automatically screws large fleets? I'd like to hear the logic behind that explanation.
Also, way to assume that because I'm advocating for a fleet holding setup that is equitable for all sizes, I'm somehow a member of a fleet that zerg invites.
Did you ever for a moment consider that not every fleet wants the same thing in a member? Randomly picking up people in bars to pad fleet numbers just to make progress in Cryptic's idiotically built starbase and holding setup isn't the answer.
I guess I should have said before hand I wasn't complaining, just throwing an idea out there.
Some people might like their 5 person fleet and not want to recruit, but want access to fleet ships in T5 without having to leave their current fleet to buy one, or wait for months to get access to it within their own fleet.
my way is not the only way this is what i have heard from players most fleet made my job easy recruiting cause of the way they are. this is a game it come down to only one thing and this is having fun. if you disagree with that i am sorry for you
I didn't say randomly invite people thats not a good idea. Use recruiting messages and pm people and talk to them, ones that respond are usually ok people you might actually get along with.
Don't just randomly spam invites people with no communication like some fleets do as it will often just get members who never do anything with the fleet. If you do recruiting message in zone and only invite people who actually pm you back you can usually end up with nice people compared to random invites. Also running STFs with mostly pugs will let you spot the occasional person without a fleet who is good.
Large fleet advantages as outlined in my more detailed post would be:
- Faster completion times for all projects the larger your fleet is
- Less input requirements per member the larger your fleet is
And a new one I just though of...
- Discount on in-starbase only purchaseable items (buffs, assets, gear)
Now I did say discount.... this means that current prices would be maintained, but a small 10 man fleet would pay a small.... say 10% premium on the same gear.
Yes, when starting a new fleet you would have to make the call, but life is full of those...
And a small fleet will take longer to progess... up to six months longer... not chosen randomly either... it is also about the same amount of time between seasons and new grind... errrr... I mean content.
And in a game starved of content.... I am suggesting a solution that makes starbase progression a more appealing choice for small groups to do in a reasonable amount of time, if they consider around 13 to 14 months reasonable....
If the way of unscrewing small fleets includes scaling, yes that does TRIBBLE my fleet. You are basically saying just because your fleet is smaller you have a right for your individual contributions to your fleet be worth more then mine. So why should my dilithium, marks, and other resources be worth less then yours? How is that fair too me to be penalized for being in a larger fleet?
Sorry but the only fair solution for smaller fleets is for them to grow.