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Fleet Bank TRIBBLE - What is the accountability?
hunter966
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
We had our fleet bank TRIBBLE on January 4, 2013. The reason why I say it was TRIBBLE is because there is no record of this person (if you can call them that) was never invited to our fleet, yet they were able to come in and clear 2 entire bank slots.
Now I understand that someone can go to google and get instructions on how to hack STO accounts.
Why has Perfect World not done anything about this? Why do they turn a deaf ear to all the victims who have asked for compensation of these items? Why do they lock threads concerning such matters? And finally, why is there no GM responses, and instead, only tickets that get closed without response and support pages that do not work?
Can someone from Perfect World please respond to these questions, and instead of trying to wow us with some Denise Crosby interview, actually approach these matters and resolve them to the satisfaction of the customers?
Edit: It's not possible to just get into a fleet's bank and clear it without being in the fleet. And, if they were in the fleet and cleared it, that means that the permissions allowed for it. I suggest you adjust your fleet's settings and decide who you trust to invite others into the fleet. The permissions are in place for a reason, and if your fleet decides to not set them appropriately, then the accountability is on the person(s) who made that decision. If someone in your fleet had their account TRIBBLE, they need to reach out to the GM team for support. But, something does not sound right here and my guess is that there is more to the story. - Brandon
Now I understand that someone can go to google and get instructions on how to hack STO accounts.
Why has Perfect World not done anything about this? Why do they turn a deaf ear to all the victims who have asked for compensation of these items? Why do they lock threads concerning such matters? And finally, why is there no GM responses, and instead, only tickets that get closed without response and support pages that do not work?
Can someone from Perfect World please respond to these questions, and instead of trying to wow us with some Denise Crosby interview, actually approach these matters and resolve them to the satisfaction of the customers?
Edit: It's not possible to just get into a fleet's bank and clear it without being in the fleet. And, if they were in the fleet and cleared it, that means that the permissions allowed for it. I suggest you adjust your fleet's settings and decide who you trust to invite others into the fleet. The permissions are in place for a reason, and if your fleet decides to not set them appropriately, then the accountability is on the person(s) who made that decision. If someone in your fleet had their account TRIBBLE, they need to reach out to the GM team for support. But, something does not sound right here and my guess is that there is more to the story. - Brandon
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So I also ask Perfect World, what is to be done about this?
I had to just move on and forget about it, bottom line is they couldn't care less about things like this and you can either accept that and continue playing or you can quit. That's my 2 cents anyway.
hunter966 wrote:
We had our fleet bank TRIBBLE on January 4, 2013. The reason why I say it was TRIBBLE is because there is no record of this person (if you can call them that) was never invited to our fleet, yet they were able to come in and clear 2 entire bank slots.
Now I understand that someone can go to google and get instructions on how to hack STO accounts.
Why has Perfect World not done anything about this? Why do they turn a deaf ear to all the victims who have asked for compensation of these items? Why do they lock threads concerning such matters? And finally, why is there no GM responses, and instead, only tickets that get closed without response and support pages that do not work?
Can someone from Perfect World please respond to these questions, and instead of trying to wow us with some Denise Crosby interview, actually approach these matters and resolve them to the satisfaction of the customers?
blazio73 wrote:
I have to agree with this. The fleet logs showed at no time this person was invited to the fleet. But they got in cleared out 2 repsitories, then left the fleet.
So I also ask Perfect World, what is to be done about this?
Next to the bolded parts, anything I might add would feel redundant.
Also I'm pretty sure creating obvious multiple forum accounts just to quote yourself is probably not allowed and there are much better ways to handle this sort of thing.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Cool story, bro. Also, I'm pretty sure neither of the people I quoted cares enough about forum posting to make a sig. They'd rather play the game.
Edit: It's not possible to just get into a fleet's bank and clear it without being in the fleet. And, if they were in the fleet and cleared it, that means that the permissions allowed for it. I suggest you adjust your fleet's settings and decide who you trust to invite others into the fleet. The permissions are in place for a reason, and if your fleet decides to not set them appropriately, then the accountability is on the person(s) who made that decision. If someone in your fleet had their account TRIBBLE, they need to reach out to the GM team for support. But, something does not sound right here and my guess is that there is more to the story. - Brandon
so its possible that someone in the fleet removed the restrictions
jacked all the stuff and left and deleted character.
could be a possibility
just a thought.
I don't get to play that much...along with most of my fleet. But what we have lost is stuff that we worked hard for. And having someone hack their way into the Fleet, steal what they could get access to, and we get stuck with nothing, that's not the way to run a game. We've back dated the activity logs back to Jul of 2012. There is nothing stating that the player was ever added to the fleet. But the logs do show the they left the fleet the same day the the bank logs show the items being take out.
All I am asking is that PW do their job:
Fix the security issue before it happens to another fleet.
Review their log files and replace what was taken (which can be done).
Be there for the people that keep this game going, the players.
The perms were set the way that the we wanted. Infact...if they had not been set...the fleet bank would have been empty. And also with the bank and fleet logs showing this person taking the items and leaving the fleet...but not showing they where invited tells me there is a hack that allows someone to join a fleet.
The logs don't lie.
EDIT: There is no way to hack yourself into a fleet -- you have to be invited by someone with permissions. Also, how far back can you go in the logs? You said Jul. 2012? I don't think you can see the logs since the start of the fleet, correct? So, they could have been a member of the fleet for a while and now finally left? When was the fleet founded? - Brandon
I've done periodic cleaning of the fleet roster. Players that have been incative for 3 months or more are removed. Also, since the Fleet leaders are players that I talk with on Teamspeak daily or related to (my son). Then a new player would not have gone unnoticed.
This player was never part of this fleet, ever.
EDIT: Except they were, since you showed the log of them leaving the fleet. So, they were in fact in it. I'm wondering if they somehow had their @handle changed, so the logs wouldn't add up when you went to look back. Anyways, this is definitely out of my purview and something that no one on these forums are going to be able to help with. Rest assured that no one can hack themselves into a fleet, so it's possible the @handle changed between their join date and the date they left, or the toon was deleted, like your peer suggested on the page before. I would suggest tightening up your restrictions further and maybe even consult the fleet section at gateway.startrekonline.com and see if you can see other logs in there. Maybe go through everyone who joined and everyone who left, and check them off. In the end, the accountability falls on the fleet. Hope you're able to figure it out
Message me and I'll email you screenshots of my logs.
Brandon,
First off, why are you suggesting what-might-have-beens, instead of investigating this to the full extent? You obviously have access to more info that us measly players.
Second: Why are you not checking the security of the system? Many of us are paying for subs or have lifetime subs.
Third: The GMs you hold in such high regard are prone to delete any requests for assistance without nary a response to us measly players.
Fourth: I know as a leader of said fleet that we did not invite this person into our fleet. It is a small fleet with very few active members, so we are aware of who's in and who's not.
Fifth: You can do a google search on how to hack STO accounts and get instructions. Why is nobody at Pefect World investigating this, even though it has been posted on the STO forums, and closed?
It is so typical of to say to someone who has been vicitmized, "It obviously is YOUR fault".
EDIT: Actually, I don't have access to this. It's out of my purview as a Community Manager and I can not assist further than the suggestions and information I provided. You'd need to reach out to the GM team for support, but please read my full messages above. I've tried to provide what info I know. As for "those Goolge posts", they are scams that try to get you to give up your personal data so they can get into your account. Aagin, I've provided what I've known and I've tried to help by suggesting a few things. Unfortunately, that's all I can do and the GM team would need to take it from here. Please note that they may not have responded to your ticket as they can not provide results of the investigation taken on another person's account -- it's part of the privacy policy. We have fleet permissions in place to avoid this, and the accountability falls on those who can set them. No one can hack themselves into a fleet. - Brandon
Stardate: 88942.86
Earthdate: 8-29-2011
As I indicated, the GMs in the game don't respond to requests for help they delete tickets without a response. Really, you need to contact someone and have them investigate your lack of GM response, and additionally why the perfect world support page is broken.
Can you at least do that? Or do I have to call your corporate offices to get someone to look into this?
EDIT: The GM team will not respond to tickets of you reporting another player as that would require them to let them to let you know what action was taken or how the investigation went -- they will instigate the report, though. Therefore, your ticket was not deleted, but they can't respond to it due to the privacy policy. I also don't think you, the player, can see the ticket in the "my tickets" section once you send it in. As for the support page, it does have an error that is only affecting some players, and it's unfortunate, but the web team is investigating this. In the meantime, if you can't use support.perfectworld.com, you can email into customerservice@perfectworld.com. -Brandon
X3 is a lot more ferocious than this game, but friendlier. Wish they had an MMO
EDIT: I'm trying to help, and I've let you know what I know. You may see the ticket as "deleted", but really, it's just no longer visible to you once you submit it, as you can tell from it not being in the "my tickets" section. If you go in-game now and submit a ticket, you'll see what I mean. Again, the GM team will investigate every single ticket that comes in, but they will not, they can not, let you know the outcome when investigating an issue that surrounds another player. This would violate our privacy policy. I added more info to my post above. Take a look if you can
I know there is a limitation to what you can do. I don't dispute that. I am just trying to get results for an explot that I know occurred with our fleet banks. We will take measures to insure that this never happen again.
We did not ask for compensation...we asked to be heard. We may have not gotten results, but we have learned that even in Star Trek Online not everyone upholds the principles of Starfleet which we have cherished for over 40 years.
But if this ever happens again, there will be no end to the discussing of these things.
To be fair, you do not "know" that an exploit occurred. You simply have a suspicion and have hastily reached a conclusion based on that suspicion.
All that you actually know is that someone withdrew items from your fleet bank and you are unable to find a record of them being invited to the fleet. It is illogical to conclude that simply because you cannot locate a record that they were not invited to the fleet.
In order to conclude that, you would have to either eliminate all possible explanations as to why you are unable to locate a record of the invitation (which you have not done) or obtain evidence explaining how they were able to join your fleet without being invited.
As previously pointed out, there are many possible explanations as to why you may not have a record of the individual joining the fleet even though the individual was invited. Until you eliminate them all, it is illogical to conclude that your fleet was "TRIBBLE".
Truth is, some dumbass in your fleet invited someone, and then somehow one of your Fleet Lead botched the permission settings per bank slot.
In the past I did hear of Fleets disappearing etc... though I still do not believe those claims.
Besides, fleets that got TRIBBLE in the past were playerbase errors - in short, Human error.
This is probably the most likely means in which your fleet got TRIBBLE.
Keep in mind fleets that gets TRIBBLE are due to:
A) Absent minded Fleet Leader
C) One Fleet Leader out of a few. became spiteful and invited his own toon from a sec account, TRIBBLE the fleet and then disappeared with loot and items.
D) If there is a STO hack program out there, then its a Chinese conspiracy :P
Had to change mine so could of the other guy it happens lots
I have played many MMOs over the years, and I would be disgusted if GMs will not restore items stolen by a TRIBBLE player.
In every other MMO I have ever played, items stolen via TRIBBLE accounts have always been reimbursed. Obviously, the GMs would need to investigate. But once it was confirmed the account in question was TRIBBLE, items were always restored.
From what was posted previously, it seems this is not the case in STO?
Honestly, think about it. The players who constantly drop money on Zen are what keeps the cash rolling in. In any MMO, the hook that keeps people coming back is that players play the game to acquire items, and build their characters/fleets. So why would you want to alienate them over a few bytes of data which means nothing to PW monetarily?
It boggles my mind if this is actually the case.
Because this will be a major Cry Wolf scenario. Everyone will start scrambling to claim they were TRIBBLE in order to receive some compensation assets. As far as they, and the vast majority of fleets, can tell, there are no loopholes in the fleet system that cannot be accounted for by bad administration on the part of the fleet leaders.
I didn't get that out of what was posted previously, to be honest.
What made you think that?
That being said, it is extremely easy to rip off a fleet. I know people like Brandon have said that a fleet cannot be ripped off as long as you invite people you trust and keep an eye on bank functionality and limit withdrawals.
By now, you may be asking "Well, smarty pants. How exactly do you do it then?"
I will never say because I am not going to give anyone any ideas on how it's done. All I can say is Mr. Branflakes it is ridiculously easy to rip off a fleet even if they keep a hard lock on their vaults.
I am sure this comment will be regarded as nothing more than some sort of trolling post, but I assure you, I am not trolling here.
As I said, I would NEVER steal from another player or a fleet. If i ever remove an item from my fleets bank and they ask me about it, I will gladly admit to taking it and give the reason why I did. If for some strange reason they do not agree with my taking of said item even though it was available to me, I would have no problem compensating the fleet with EC, donations, or simply returning the item. I am no computer genius, but I do know a few things here and there. Sadly, I did not hear about this method of robbing a fleet bank from anyone else. I simply figured it out and when I came to the conclusion that it was plausible, I honestly felt a little sick.
I think the main issue here is most people only post to complain about the situation instead of at least trying to come up with creative solutions to these issues. Unfortunately, we as players are limited by the tools provided to us by the game and I think even Cryptic will admit it's not really much at all. Sure there are locks here and there, but when have you known any lock to stop a determined thief? If someone wants to rob you, there is really very little you can do about it. One way or another, they are gonna get to you.
So what was the point of your post, since it didn't really add a useful contribution?
You claim Branflakes is wrong but refuse to demonstrate how, or why, and insist that something should be changed, again, without explaining what or why or how.
That.
However, he did say reach out to the GM for support, so ya.
PS-I never (ever) overreact without reading the full and entire post. Ever.
Like I said, I refuse to give any other player any ideas on how the theft is done. The post is there in a way to let Mr. Brandon know that if he would like to know about how it's done he can send me a private message. He is a smart man. I am sure he figured that part out.
It was also there to let him know that players are limited in the way they can track items as far as who takes them and when they are taken which can also add to confusion and make it appear that they have been robbed. You can only imagine how many times people think they have been robbed only to later find out there was just some sort of miscommunication. That was my contribution.
If you cannot see that, there is little I can do about that.
I totally agreed with Stark's point. Sorry about the theft in your fleet but most of the time it's someone who got invited and planted the bomb. Check carefully with your peers/founders since you can't trust anyone. Personally as fleet leader I have been burned many times those whom I trusted the most...just saying be aware of who has access to permissions.
It's great that you reached out to Brandon but there's only so much he can do (not to defend him). When I have serious Tech issues I go to the support page to file or pick a phone directly and ask to escalate it to a Tech II or manager:
https://support.perfectworld.com
If you still feel you are going nowhere try the support escalation mode intsead of the forums...that might help as well...good luck.
I'm inclined to agree with Brandon on this as it seems more often than not it's just someone in the Fleet birked up royally somehow and invited a troll, or someone got THEIR account TRIBBLE who was a Fleet Leader(stolen login, happens when you buy Gold).....but some very concerning points are also being made by players here that the system is exploitable even with proper permissions set. I'm in a very large Fleet, and have been in it for quite some time. We've had some undesirables make it into Fleet on occasion, but no thefts have taken place. I am assuming that's because our leader has security in order and permissions set appropriately. Besides, if this was a real issue people hacking into Fleet bank accounts then wouldn't the really large Fleet's with more valuable things to lose and more EC in their banks be crying bloody murder here on the forums? Reddit Alert? Task Force Spectre? Pride of the Federation? Access Denied? They seem to be doing ok....
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