But I feel like STO in many respects got caught up engineering an iconic status quo and that the status quo of the game became a little too precious in the process, so that missions spend more time REVEALING the status quo than they do IMPACTING it.
[...]
It's a little frustrating to always be discovering what someone else did or is doing. Watching a detective your a few steps ahead of or behind is good but frustrating to play one.
I agree with most of what you say, even if I don't agree with your solutions. STO doesn't put the player in the main role. Some episodes are just patrol missions where you're going to be the bad guy because "Starfleet gave us the right to slaughter our foes".
What does good stories need? They need to raise the bar. Let's just get rid of patrol episodes where you rescue a facility from the 145th Gorn/Klingon/Undine invasion attempt, to focus on much more crucial stakes. Of course, since we can't save the galaxy every morning Story arcs needs to be connected, longer, and to be a lot more dramatic.
Currently, episode arcs are a slow and somewhat quiet path toward the resolution of the crisis. There is no climax, no moment where you think that you're about to loose everything, where you are clueless with no solution, just little steps toward the final victory. In most missions, there's no risk, no real danger, and you don't feel that you have to play it to the end.
I'm not sure how this could be applied to the Borg story arc, but i know it made some of the best Star Trek TV episodes, or even some of the best stories outside of this IP. But for now, this game is too quiet.
The interesting thing about pitbulls is that they're a dog so stupid that they'll hold on to anything they grab on to regardless if it makes sense or not. Even if they were a less idiotic breed its not like you could reason with them, because in the end they're still a dog. They only respond to the need to lick themselves.
This is exactly the type of thing someone says when they have nothing to back them up in the discussion.
With you i don't even have to explain my point. You do it for me. Thanks for making it easy.;)
That's the thing though: someone else being right or wrong is ALSO an opinion. It's perfectly okay if you think they're wrong, and say they're wrong (with evidence to back up your words)...
I have all of true cannon to back me up. What would you like me reference?
But when you just say they're wrong, with sentences like 'Just being wrong' like it's the only opinion that matters... that's when people get upset Which shows in a few replies toward you, though currently under the surface (where it should stay)
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but choice of words does matter.
If something is right it is right, if something is wrong it is wrong. Everyone is so PC and touchy feely these days. Probably from schools giving out awards for 6th place and that type of TRIBBLE. So many people have been told that we all are right and we just have different views. That is a rot on our society but that is a totally different topic.
My choice of words are direct so there is no confusion. Correct information is what it is. Saying it another way would alter that information. If your over 18 your an adult and should be able to Handel it. Generally speaking.
If there is a grey area then it is open to opinion as long as there is cannon evidence to back you up on your course of reasoning.
I was in a discussion the other day with a guy that disagreed with me on a star trek issue. He was open to learning as am I. He referenced a few good sources and i read through them and watch an episode again. In the end I changed my position. Was it cannon? No, but there was enough evidence to suggest to me that there was a good possibility he was correct.
Back onto topic
There is a metric ton of cannon evidence the the Borg adapt and they do so quickly. There is only those two times in voyager that they did not do it quickly and there were damn good reasons why that were in no way typical. One was from a different reality and the other was from future tech. Which, if you fallow the evidence of cannon, was probably not a good idea to use on them because they will have a heads up on adapting to those future weapons now and may even have given them ideas for new and more powerful weapons for themselves.
We all know how tedious constant ground weapon remodulation gets, so I'm quite sure that Cryptic made the correct decision by skipping that mechanic for space combat.
Also, Cryptic has to keep game playability top priority. If the borg were made as as TNG/VOY-accurate as possible, then they would easily block rotating weapon frequencies by triaxiliating their shields (VOY: "Dark Frontier"), making them unkillable short of Viral Matrices and canon-accurate transphasic torpedoes.
The easy solution was to make Borg tough, hard hitting, and not implement their true canon-adaptive defenses -- exactly what we see now in-game.
Other proposed changes:
1) Give borg multiple energy type attacks instead of plasma-only (rainbows!), automatically favoring energy types that hit and deal more damage against specific players (real-time offense-based adaptation) after that target holds agro for 5+ seconds (arbitrary number)
2) Cryptic should consider changing Omega Rep Anti-Borg shields from default plasma resists to all-energy resists (exact numbers TBD later).
3) Big cubes should have some kind of sensor analysis debuff attack while tractor-beaming targets -- the latter accurately depicts how borg use a variety of methods to probe target defenses for weaknesses.
As usual, these should be tested on Tribble to get more player feedback.
I think my Galaxy-X Phaser Lance should cut though Borg like a hot knife in butter. If the Galaxy-X in TNG could blow holes though Neg'vars then I should be able to do the same to the Borg.
Resistance is Futile, except when wielding a Phaser Lance of Doom. :cool:
I remember the days where space and ground STF's were combined, non of this pick what you prefer stuff we see today.
And when you come across the Borg in space or ground you knew you needed the support of others and vice vercer, so when you did complete the mission when Borg were much harder to kill ya really did get a almighty sense of accomplishment, The feeling of accomplishment is what I personally miss instead of "hey look at me...I can tank a tactical cube for 30 minutes":cool:...(I cant but just a exaggerated example xD)
Anybody else miss the retro Borg moments??
If the borg were made as as TNG/VOY-accurate as possible, then they would easily block rotating weapon frequencies by triaxiliating their shields (VOY: "Dark Frontier"), making them unkillable short of Viral Matrices and canon-accurate transphasic torpedoes.
You do realize that the particular bit of technobabble you are quoting was used against a race so backwards that they were entirely assimilated in a matter of days? Picking on the weaker races of the galaxy will not gain the Borg anything but bodies in leather and implants (which they can clone). No wonder the Borg seem to be... nevermind
The borg are a strange species, as mentioned they assimilate and adapt. They dont use creativity as its trait of individualism.
My interpretation of the borg is that once a person is assimilated they become a tool of the collective, all traces of individuality are suppressed. While this is great for consuming knowledge it essentially stifles creativity. So yeah they can take a technology provided its already been created, but they do not have the ability to develop new tech on their own.
With that in mind, what species fell to the borg, even with the ultimate weapon at their disposal, the weapon that was assimilated into the Borg Lolpedo?
Or why the feds or any other civilization havent included in every energy weapon in the last 70 years that can automatically re modulate weapons every time the trigger is pressed... Its not like this tech is alien to the universe, quarks dabo tables have a random number generator in them!
Now the biggest problem cryptic have presented us with is the way in which the federation treat or interact with the borg. We know these Borg can be rescued and implants can be removed and individuality can be restored. Even subjects taken at a young age and held in the collective for decades can be rescued ala seven of nine. So now in 2409 i can fly right up to a borg cube and destroy it in 20 -30 seconds solo. The borg cant be considered a threat now. Why are we senselessly slaughtering thousands of borg every time we take out a cube?
Id go for a real borg encounter any time, count me in for that 20 man mission to take out a real cube!
I agree with most of what you say, even if I don't agree with your solutions. STO doesn't put the player in the main role. Some episodes are just patrol missions where you're going to be the bad guy because "Starfleet gave us the right to slaughter our foes".
What does good stories need? They need to raise the bar. Let's just get rid of patrol episodes where you rescue a facility from the 145th Gorn/Klingon/Undine invasion attempt, to focus on much more crucial stakes. Of course, since we can't save the galaxy every morning Story arcs needs to be connected, longer, and to be a lot more dramatic.
Currently, episode arcs are a slow and somewhat quiet path toward the resolution of the crisis. There is no climax, no moment where you think that you're about to loose everything, where you are clueless with no solution, just little steps toward the final victory. In most missions, there's no risk, no real danger, and you don't feel that you have to play it to the end.
I'm not sure how this could be applied to the Borg story arc, but i know it made some of the best Star Trek TV episodes, or even some of the best stories outside of this IP. But for now, this game is too quiet.
I'd be happy if we just encountered civilians and children on the starbases.
That surely can't impact the ESRB rating because every third quest in WoW is a kid in danger or dying of a mystery illness or two lovestruck teenagers.
That doesn't take mountains of dialogue to establish.
Just, instead of:
"The thermionic radiation coefficient requires further study. A theta band scan with a class A tricorder should do the trick. The methodology was pioneered by Bolians but may be applicable in a case such as this. I need those data samples, Captain."
Have:
"My wife is dying of thermionic radiation poisoning. I need detailed scans to figure out how to save her. The Federation values life, Captain. Please, don't turn your back on her. I'm begging you for the scans. You're my last hope. My only hope."
You do realize that the particular bit of technobabble you are quoting was used against a race so backwards that they were entirely assimilated in a matter of days? Picking on the weaker races of the galaxy will not gain the Borg anything but bodies in leather and implants (which they can clone). No wonder the Borg seem to be... nevermind
The race and their specifics are irrelevant. The sole point is that the borg can counter weapon remodulation with counter-modulation (triaxiliation). This effectively renders remodulation tactics against borg moot. However, Cryptic will not sacrifice game playability for the sake of following canon storyline.
Exactly. And I want to see NEW LORE that changes how they operate.
The whole point of being set after the shows is that things can deviate from the lore because THINGS CHANGE.
I'm not suggesting they randomly change. I'm suggesting we have the Borg Queen show up next time and say, "I've restructured how we do things."
The Borg as they were originally introduced were alien. Not in the sense of extraterrestrial, but in the sense of an utterly foreign viewpoint and mindset. Q used them to demonstrate to humanity that there were alien mindsets that humans (as they were) could not understand.
Consequent writers of the Borg were utter failures at grasping the concept, anthropomorphizing them to such an extent that the "Borg Queen" came into existence, ruining the entire concept of an utterly alien mindset that we were mentally unprepared to deal with. (We might say the subsequent writers were mentally unprepared to deal with a mindset that alien. )
They were supposed to be an example of the "unknown possibilities of existence", now they're just another antagonistic faction. Land soldiers, attack this colony, research this artifact. Bah.
While Star Trek has always been closer to "science fantasy" than "hard science fiction", I strongly oppose further degrading the original Borg concept. Voluntarily splitting different aspects of your personality into individuals to further anthropomorphize a previously brilliant and unique alien (unlike the other "aliens" who are all more or less redressed human cultures) is highly distasteful.
If anything else, the Borg should discard the concept of a Borg Queen as being a stupid, fanciful attempt to imitate humanity and return to their roots as a large hive mind that sees individual people much like we view the individual cells that make up our body, individually insignificant parts of a greater whole.
The race and their specifics are irrelevant. The sole point is that the borg can counter weapon remodulation with counter-modulation (triaxiliation). This effectively renders remodulation tactics against borg moot. However, Cryptic will not sacrifice game playability for the sake of following canon storyline.
Just when I think I'm out...
Ok, if this "triaxillation" BS is so great please remember that 'ol Seven came back with Voyager and was on the special anti-Borg committee for quite a while giving the inside dope on Borg TRIBBLE to Starfleet for a good few years, including this technobabble TRIBBLE from one ep that you quote. If the Borg can do it, so can others.
Ok, if this "triaxillation" BS is so great please remember that 'ol Seven came back with Voyager and was on the special anti-Borg committee for quite a while giving the inside dope on Borg TRIBBLE to Starfleet for a good few years, including this technobabble TRIBBLE from one ep that you quote. If the Borg can do it, so can others.
I don't understand your point you're trying to make. Triaxilation was explained as just another remodulation method... nothing really complicated, but it basically counters remodulating weapons by shifting shield frequencies as well.
EDIT: This is just useless Star Trek trivia / flavor text. It has no bearing on how STO actually works.
EDIT: This is just useless Star Trek trivia / flavor text. It has no bearing on how STO actually works.
It really is. Hell y'know what my wife said when she saw what Science types can do? "So... They do magic?" That pretty much sums up all the arguments: who has better magic?
Starfleet is actually a pretty tough act to follow on the whole "science" front really, they did have a couple of junior officers build a shuttle that could travel at infinite speed apparently from spare parts and some "special dilithium" they found in the middle of nowhere.
An emergency medical hologram on a Starfleet ship can reduce the most grievous mutations, bodily transformations and even death into easily solved problems.
Starfleet has some really powerful science, bending the universe, time traveling, resurrecting the dead, physical immortality, mind downloading, instant full grown clones, inter-universal access, Scotty...
Last time I saw science like that, the lab was being run by Cave Johnson.:rolleyes:
I have all of true cannon to back me up. What would you like me reference?
If something is right it is right, if something is wrong it is wrong. Everyone is so PC and touchy feely these days. Probably from schools giving out awards for 6th place and that type of TRIBBLE. So many people have been told that we all are right and we just have different views. That is a rot on our society but that is a totally different topic.
My choice of words are direct so there is no confusion. Correct information is what it is. Saying it another way would alter that information. If your over 18 your an adult and should be able to Handel it. Generally speaking.
If there is a grey area then it is open to opinion as long as there is cannon evidence to back you up on your course of reasoning.
I was in a discussion the other day with a guy that disagreed with me on a star trek issue. He was open to learning as am I. He referenced a few good sources and i read through them and watch an episode again. In the end I changed my position. Was it cannon? No, but there was enough evidence to suggest to me that there was a good possibility he was correct.
The moment you said 'true cannon', misspelling canon btw... I got a bad feeling. That's another choice of words that imply you think your opinion is the only one that matters
"Right is right, and wrong is wrong"... if only one person was around, then yes. But it doesn't work that way with so many different opinions. You think your choice of words is direct, and avoids confusion... but what if it doesn't to many others?
I just feel like you're missing the point: that your opinion, while your own and have every right to say it... might need to be finetuned to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings (such as the implication I mentioned above). At least I think so
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Yes, I realize Voyager brought back some anti-Borg tech, but shouldnt the Borg have adapted by now? The very first Fed ship they assimilate should have given them access to whatever modern tech Starfleet is using and then they would have developed a way to adapt to it. What gives?
Within "Star Trek's" version of the twenty-fifth century, the Borg would be almost nonexistent. Every antagonist in "Star Trek" follows the following pattern:
First step, the Klingons, Breen, Dominion, and Romulans are an impending threat on the Federation. All life in known space is in trouble. During this period of time, the antagonist boasts about their power and strength.
Second, the antagonist tests the waters, and they throw stones over the borders. Espionage, spying, saber rattling, and technological testing occur.
Second step, the Klingons, Breen, Dominion, and Romulans attack the Federation. War breaks out between the antagonist faction and the protagonist faction.
Third step, the Federation overcomes the impossible, and they save everything in the known galaxy. Antagonist concedes to the Federation, and they sign peace treaties. All enemy forced withdraw from Federation space.
Fourth step, the Federation welcomes the antagonist faction into their organization, and they work to develop strong diplomatic relations. Some members of the enemy faction join Starfleet.
Final step, another antagonist starts a new cycle.
If "Star Trek" were to follow its normal flow, the third and fourth generation would be developing technologies for multi-galaxy travel. "Star Trek: The Third Generation" would be getting ready to visit the nearest galaxy.
IMO, it is the lack of required group tactics against a Boss NPC in their game design that require most NPCs to be so weak.
Granted, they have gotten better with the difficultly in STF's like the Hive, but even those do not require any more tactics against the Queen outside of a Sub-NuKe.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Borgs are weak, so the PvE is easy and the masses of casuals are happy.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Comments
I agree with most of what you say, even if I don't agree with your solutions. STO doesn't put the player in the main role. Some episodes are just patrol missions where you're going to be the bad guy because "Starfleet gave us the right to slaughter our foes".
What does good stories need? They need to raise the bar. Let's just get rid of patrol episodes where you rescue a facility from the 145th Gorn/Klingon/Undine invasion attempt, to focus on much more crucial stakes. Of course, since we can't save the galaxy every morning Story arcs needs to be connected, longer, and to be a lot more dramatic.
Currently, episode arcs are a slow and somewhat quiet path toward the resolution of the crisis. There is no climax, no moment where you think that you're about to loose everything, where you are clueless with no solution, just little steps toward the final victory. In most missions, there's no risk, no real danger, and you don't feel that you have to play it to the end.
I'm not sure how this could be applied to the Borg story arc, but i know it made some of the best Star Trek TV episodes, or even some of the best stories outside of this IP. But for now, this game is too quiet.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
This is exactly the type of thing someone says when they have nothing to back them up in the discussion.
With you i don't even have to explain my point. You do it for me. Thanks for making it easy.;)
I have all of true cannon to back me up. What would you like me reference?
If something is right it is right, if something is wrong it is wrong. Everyone is so PC and touchy feely these days. Probably from schools giving out awards for 6th place and that type of TRIBBLE. So many people have been told that we all are right and we just have different views. That is a rot on our society but that is a totally different topic.
My choice of words are direct so there is no confusion. Correct information is what it is. Saying it another way would alter that information. If your over 18 your an adult and should be able to Handel it. Generally speaking.
If there is a grey area then it is open to opinion as long as there is cannon evidence to back you up on your course of reasoning.
I was in a discussion the other day with a guy that disagreed with me on a star trek issue. He was open to learning as am I. He referenced a few good sources and i read through them and watch an episode again. In the end I changed my position. Was it cannon? No, but there was enough evidence to suggest to me that there was a good possibility he was correct.
Back onto topic
There is a metric ton of cannon evidence the the Borg adapt and they do so quickly. There is only those two times in voyager that they did not do it quickly and there were damn good reasons why that were in no way typical. One was from a different reality and the other was from future tech. Which, if you fallow the evidence of cannon, was probably not a good idea to use on them because they will have a heads up on adapting to those future weapons now and may even have given them ideas for new and more powerful weapons for themselves.
Also, Cryptic has to keep game playability top priority. If the borg were made as as TNG/VOY-accurate as possible, then they would easily block rotating weapon frequencies by triaxiliating their shields (VOY: "Dark Frontier"), making them unkillable short of Viral Matrices and canon-accurate transphasic torpedoes.
The easy solution was to make Borg tough, hard hitting, and not implement their true canon-adaptive defenses -- exactly what we see now in-game.
Other proposed changes:
1) Give borg multiple energy type attacks instead of plasma-only (rainbows!), automatically favoring energy types that hit and deal more damage against specific players (real-time offense-based adaptation) after that target holds agro for 5+ seconds (arbitrary number)
2) Cryptic should consider changing Omega Rep Anti-Borg shields from default plasma resists to all-energy resists (exact numbers TBD later).
3) Big cubes should have some kind of sensor analysis debuff attack while tractor-beaming targets -- the latter accurately depicts how borg use a variety of methods to probe target defenses for weaknesses.
As usual, these should be tested on Tribble to get more player feedback.
Then we can have another 6 months of thread after thread whining about how unfair fighting the Borg are again. SMH.
Resistance is Futile, except when wielding a Phaser Lance of Doom. :cool:
Just sayin...
And when you come across the Borg in space or ground you knew you needed the support of others and vice vercer, so when you did complete the mission when Borg were much harder to kill ya really did get a almighty sense of accomplishment, The feeling of accomplishment is what I personally miss instead of "hey look at me...I can tank a tactical cube for 30 minutes":cool:...(I cant but just a exaggerated example xD)
Anybody else miss the retro Borg moments??
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You do realize that the particular bit of technobabble you are quoting was used against a race so backwards that they were entirely assimilated in a matter of days? Picking on the weaker races of the galaxy will not gain the Borg anything but bodies in leather and implants (which they can clone). No wonder the Borg seem to be... nevermind
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"Yes... This was Ensign Lynch."
"... Tough luck, huh?"
I'd be happy if we just encountered civilians and children on the starbases.
That surely can't impact the ESRB rating because every third quest in WoW is a kid in danger or dying of a mystery illness or two lovestruck teenagers.
That doesn't take mountains of dialogue to establish.
Just, instead of:
"The thermionic radiation coefficient requires further study. A theta band scan with a class A tricorder should do the trick. The methodology was pioneered by Bolians but may be applicable in a case such as this. I need those data samples, Captain."
Have:
"My wife is dying of thermionic radiation poisoning. I need detailed scans to figure out how to save her. The Federation values life, Captain. Please, don't turn your back on her. I'm begging you for the scans. You're my last hope. My only hope."
The race and their specifics are irrelevant. The sole point is that the borg can counter weapon remodulation with counter-modulation (triaxiliation). This effectively renders remodulation tactics against borg moot. However, Cryptic will not sacrifice game playability for the sake of following canon storyline.
The Borg as they were originally introduced were alien. Not in the sense of extraterrestrial, but in the sense of an utterly foreign viewpoint and mindset. Q used them to demonstrate to humanity that there were alien mindsets that humans (as they were) could not understand.
Consequent writers of the Borg were utter failures at grasping the concept, anthropomorphizing them to such an extent that the "Borg Queen" came into existence, ruining the entire concept of an utterly alien mindset that we were mentally unprepared to deal with. (We might say the subsequent writers were mentally unprepared to deal with a mindset that alien.
They were supposed to be an example of the "unknown possibilities of existence", now they're just another antagonistic faction. Land soldiers, attack this colony, research this artifact. Bah.
While Star Trek has always been closer to "science fantasy" than "hard science fiction", I strongly oppose further degrading the original Borg concept. Voluntarily splitting different aspects of your personality into individuals to further anthropomorphize a previously brilliant and unique alien (unlike the other "aliens" who are all more or less redressed human cultures) is highly distasteful.
If anything else, the Borg should discard the concept of a Borg Queen as being a stupid, fanciful attempt to imitate humanity and return to their roots as a large hive mind that sees individual people much like we view the individual cells that make up our body, individually insignificant parts of a greater whole.
Just when I think I'm out...
Ok, if this "triaxillation" BS is so great please remember that 'ol Seven came back with Voyager and was on the special anti-Borg committee for quite a while giving the inside dope on Borg TRIBBLE to Starfleet for a good few years, including this technobabble TRIBBLE from one ep that you quote. If the Borg can do it, so can others.
I don't understand your point you're trying to make. Triaxilation was explained as just another remodulation method... nothing really complicated, but it basically counters remodulating weapons by shifting shield frequencies as well.
EDIT: This is just useless Star Trek trivia / flavor text. It has no bearing on how STO actually works.
It really is. Hell y'know what my wife said when she saw what Science types can do? "So... They do magic?" That pretty much sums up all the arguments: who has better magic?
Starfleet is actually a pretty tough act to follow on the whole "science" front really, they did have a couple of junior officers build a shuttle that could travel at infinite speed apparently from spare parts and some "special dilithium" they found in the middle of nowhere.
An emergency medical hologram on a Starfleet ship can reduce the most grievous mutations, bodily transformations and even death into easily solved problems.
Starfleet has some really powerful science, bending the universe, time traveling, resurrecting the dead, physical immortality, mind downloading, instant full grown clones, inter-universal access, Scotty...
Last time I saw science like that, the lab was being run by Cave Johnson.:rolleyes:
"Right is right, and wrong is wrong"... if only one person was around, then yes. But it doesn't work that way with so many different opinions. You think your choice of words is direct, and avoids confusion... but what if it doesn't to many others?
I just feel like you're missing the point: that your opinion, while your own and have every right to say it... might need to be finetuned to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings (such as the implication I mentioned above). At least I think so
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
First step, the Klingons, Breen, Dominion, and Romulans are an impending threat on the Federation. All life in known space is in trouble. During this period of time, the antagonist boasts about their power and strength.
Second, the antagonist tests the waters, and they throw stones over the borders. Espionage, spying, saber rattling, and technological testing occur.
Second step, the Klingons, Breen, Dominion, and Romulans attack the Federation. War breaks out between the antagonist faction and the protagonist faction.
Third step, the Federation overcomes the impossible, and they save everything in the known galaxy. Antagonist concedes to the Federation, and they sign peace treaties. All enemy forced withdraw from Federation space.
Fourth step, the Federation welcomes the antagonist faction into their organization, and they work to develop strong diplomatic relations. Some members of the enemy faction join Starfleet.
Final step, another antagonist starts a new cycle.
If "Star Trek" were to follow its normal flow, the third and fourth generation would be developing technologies for multi-galaxy travel. "Star Trek: The Third Generation" would be getting ready to visit the nearest galaxy.
Our current understanding of space is:
Multiple planets make up solar systems.
Multiple solar systems make up galaxies.
Multiple galaxies make up universes.
Multiple universes make up a multiverse.
Granted, they have gotten better with the difficultly in STF's like the Hive, but even those do not require any more tactics against the Queen outside of a Sub-NuKe.
I'd liken the above to the misadventures of a certain time lord from Gallifrey