*FACE PALM* I have never seen so many poor and ridiculous reasons why the Borg are so weak.
Cryptic has just done a bad job with them. They think that their players being able to blow up countless Borg Cubes will make them feel awesome. All it really does is make you feel like your really not fighting Borg. They made the Borg like they did everything else in this game. TRASH MOBS. The Borg should have been a special event that the devs controlled periodically. Then when they attacked the alpha quadrant it would be a huge event that everyone would be excited about.
Two major things wrong:
A) Cryptic neutered the Borg and now when i see one it might as well be a leaf on a tree, nothing special Missed a great opportunity to have exciting and nail biting special event. At random when the Borg would arrive to attack (once a week at the absolute most) everyone would get an emergency communications from command to immediately respond to the Borg threat! And it be only 1 or 2 Cubes and they would wipe the floor with fleets before being taken down over the course of an hour or two.
But i know this is more of an arcade game that LOOKS like Star Trek. Not more of a simulation game the tries to be a bit more true to Star Trek.
It is actually appropriate and right that the Borg are beatable. Voyager proved the Borg could be beaten, brought back a bunch of anti-Borg tech and then that tech has been improved on and expanded by both Starfleet and the KDF for 50 years.
What's amazing is that the Borg are still a big bad threat at all. But they are, and will continue to be.
They will never be the curbstomp bad guys they were in TNG again. The Alpha Quadrant has learned, adapted, and assimilated enough to be able to beat back the once unstoppable Collective.
They have the motivation: Win or everyone dies forever.
That motivation was enough, Starfleet and the KDF are slowly but surely winning.
I like this, it feels like progress.
It is actually appropriate and right that the Borg are beatable. Voyager proved the Borg could be beaten, brought back a bunch of anti-Borg tech and then that tech has been improved on and expanded by both Starfleet and the KDF for 50 years.
What's amazing is that the Borg are still a big bad threat at all. But they are, and will continue to be.
They will never be the curbstomp bad guys they were in TNG again. The Alpha Quadrant has learned, adapted, and assimilated enough to be able to beat back the once unstoppable Collective.
They have the motivation: Win or everyone dies forever.
That motivation was enough, Starfleet and the KDF are slowly but surely winning.
I like this, it feels like progress.
Like i said...Face palm.
They were beat with future tech. They would have adapted faster then the Feds could come up with something new as seen in EVERY EPISODE but that single voyager episode (because the tech was so advanced and required more time) when dealing with the Federation. Then only way the Starfleet has beaten the Borg has been because of special circumstances. The queen even says that they will adapt in the episode!
The first time the Enterprise encountered a cube they could have destroyed it outright if they had kept firing but Picard did not realize what he was facing. SHORTLY after the Enterprises weapons were next to worthless. Now lets say he had been teleported back to fed space right after firing phasers and dealing horrible damage to the cube and the episode ended there. By your (and many others) argument the Borg would get their butts kicked by phasers, and how wrong you would be.... They adapted...
They were beat with future tech. They would have adapted faster then the Feds could come up with something new as seen in EVERY EPISODE but that single voyager episode (because the tech was so advanced and required more time) when dealing with the Federation. Then only way the Starfleet has beaten the Borg has been because of special circumstances. The queen even says that they will adapt in the episode!
The first time the Enterprise encountered a cube they could have destroyed it outright if they had kept firing but Picard did not realize what he was facing. SHORTLY after the Enterprises weapons were next to worthless. Now lets say he had been teleported back to fed space right after firing phasers and dealing horrible damage to the cube and the episode ended there. By your (and many others) argument the Borg would get their butts kicked by phasers, and how wrong you would be.... They adapted...
So do FED and KDF. If it wasn't for Picard, Borg would be long gone in this time line.
While I agree in theory, after seeing how much people complain about the Crystalline Entity encounter, I don't think people would be loving a 20-Player Borg cube fight in practice.
I've wanted another shot at the CE since i lost as a Lt or Cmdr. Hope they bring it back.
As for the 20 person vs 1 Cube sounds interesting. In mean time we have to make due with the Borg Queen.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
The Borg are not gods. Why do so many want them to have wanked-out abilities that make them nigh-unbeatable? Other than Wolf-359 they have NEVER been portrayed that way. If the Borg were unstoppable they'd already own the entire Delta Quadrant at least.
Did anyone else see the beginning of First Contact? Y'know where the Borg were losing even before the Ent-E showed up? Did anyone else see most of Voyager where many races and civilizations existed in the teeth of the Borg and seemed to be just fine?
The Borg seem to do really well when their victims aren't expecting them or when their victims run and hide. When faced and fought, they can be beaten. They're powerful, but not all-powerful. Anyone else notice that the Federation still exists in the 29th century and don't seem to be members of the Collective according to canon? Doesn't that suggest that maybe the Borg are NOT an all-powerful threat after all?
Plus, once you get past the cool imagery, the Borg are kinda boring and predictable. They can't deal with anything that does not conform to their expectations (Species 8472, Voyager, Data) they always use brute force even when subtlety would get them their goals more easily, and will actually ditch a subtle plan for no apparent reason. The Queen had a plan for an "assimilation virus" that was mentioned in Voyager, but nothing ever came of it, not surprising for the Borg as they have proven that they will die rather than change their MO. The Borg ability to "adapt" seems to be limited to changing their shields and weapons slightly to deal with incoming attacks or a victim's defenses better and that is about it. Other than that one thing, there has never been any canon evidence that the Borg are all that adaptable really.
The Federation is very adaptable, changes with the times and circumstances and will use new tactics, weapons or strategies when needed. The KDF is adaptable, they also change with the times and come up with new tech and strategies to meet a changing universe.
The Borg don't adapt, and they don't even seem to assimilate new knowledge very well as they seem monumentally resistant to change even when it is in their best interest.
The Borg, as they exist in canon, are in danger of becoming irrelevant.
The Borg are not gods. Why do so many want them to have wanked-out abilities that make them nigh-unbeatable? Other than Wolf-359 they have NEVER been portrayed that way. If the Borg were unstoppable they'd already own the entire Delta Quadrant at least.
Never said they were Gods. Who did? And they ARE shown as being ALMOST unstoppable except for the last episode of Voyager and i have already explained that. Are you reading?
Anyone else notice that the Federation still exists in the 29th century and don't seem to be members of the Collective according to canon? Doesn't that suggest that maybe the Borg are NOT an all-powerful threat after all?
Arrogance to think that the Federation is their most pressing priority. Good thing it is not in cannon....yet.
The Federation is very adaptable, changes with the times and circumstances and will use new tactics, weapons or strategies when needed. The KDF is adaptable, they also change with the times and come up with new tech and strategies to meet a changing universe.
The Borg don't adapt, and they don't even seem to assimilate new knowledge very well as they seem monumentally resistant to change even when it is in their best interest.
The Borg, as they exist in canon, are in danger of becoming irrelevant.
Never said they were Gods. Who did? And they ARE shown as being ALMOST unstoppable except for the last episode of Voyager and i have already explained that. Are you reading?
Almost isn't good enough. Almost will lose. The Borg get stopped all the time.
Ummmm watch the movie again. The surface of their ship was damaged but they were NOT losing by any means.
Yeah, I watched it very recently, the cube was cratered, limping and looked as bad as any of the Starfleet ships that were circling it like a pack of hyenas around a baby zebra.
In fact, we never see the Borg take on and beat anyone that isn't straight out inferior to them and actually win a significant victory of any sort. Last time they took on a power roughly in their league (8472) they got stomped until Voyager helped them.
They typically only assimilate if there is something to gain otherwise they don't bother with you.
Voth. Hirogen. Krenim. Whoever those guys were with interstellar transporters. Nothing to be gained? I'd say they must have a different idea of what is worthwhile.
Arrogance to think that the Federation is their most pressing priority. Good thing it is not in cannon....yet.
Ummm... They can cross the galaxy in minutes, have a proven interest in the Federation and most especially Earth. They manage to accomplish sweet jack-all in FOUR HUNDRED YEARS?!? The Borg just went from scary to laughable.
I'm sorry, but the Borg are looking more and more like they're all hype, most of the hype being from fans, not the show.
Plus, once you get past the cool imagery, the Borg are kinda boring and predictable. They can't deal with anything that does not conform to their expectations (Species 8472, Voyager, Data) they always use brute force even when subtlety would get them their goals more easily, and will actually ditch a subtle plan for no apparent reason. The Queen had a plan for an "assimilation virus" that was mentioned in Voyager, but nothing ever came of it, not surprising for the Borg as they have proven that they will die rather than change their MO. The Borg ability to "adapt" seems to be limited to changing their shields and weapons slightly to deal with incoming attacks or a victim's defenses better and that is about it. Other than that one thing, there has never been any canon evidence that the Borg are all that adaptable really.
I'd like to see the Borg become truly adaptable and creative but it would mean changing them from zombies into vampires. And people would cry bloody murder.
Like I've said before, give us a Borg Baron, a Borg Count, a Borg Duchess. Shift us from the dawn of industrialization into a late Victorian era or even a take inspired by Russia circa the Bolsheviks. The Borg take on individuality but a modular kind of individuality with everyone getting the personality needed for the task at hand. Shifted from an Asimov take to a Philip K. **** kind of take.
Instead of suppressing individuality, they feed on it and steal it and reassign it to whatever drone needs it.
The Borg don't need something OLD done with them. You want the old Borg, put it in a time travel mission. The Borg need to be handled in new ways to be interesting, not constantly be reset to the same old boring boogeyman.
Yeah, I watched it very recently, the cube was cratered, limping and looked as bad as any of the Starfleet ships that were circling it like a pack of hyenas around a baby zebra.
HAHA wow. Make sure you are watching the movie with Patric Stewart as captain Picard.
Ummm... They can cross the galaxy in minutes, have a proven interest in the Federation and most especially Earth. They manage to accomplish sweet jack-all in FOUR HUNDRED YEARS?!? The Borg just went from scary to laughable.
Again, you answered your self in the previous quote.
You realize that is why many people didn't do STFs, and low drop rates for gear was why people quit doing STFs, right?
2 hours wasted is a considerable penalty for failure that most people will not put up with. Most people with disposable income have said income from work. 2 hours for a single mission is a considerable investment of time.
Instead of suppressing individuality, they feed on it and steal it and reassign it to whatever drone needs it.
That would be contrary to the lore. Remember when Data sent the sleep command? The Borg can no more split off chunks of their consciousness than you can will your foot to become a separate entity.
That would be contrary to the lore. Remember when Data sent the sleep command? The Borg can no more split off chunks of their consciousness than you can will your foot to become a separate entity.
Exactly. And I want to see NEW LORE that changes how they operate.
The whole point of being set after the shows is that things can deviate from the lore because THINGS CHANGE.
I'm not suggesting they randomly change. I'm suggesting we have the Borg Queen show up next time and say, "I've restructured how we do things."
Okay, clearly you both have very different opinions about this... but the thing is, one or both of you are ignoring the reasonable points of each other. And at that point, you risk making fools or trolls of yourselves.
I say just stop there, and agree to disagree
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Okay, clearly you both have very different opinions about this... but the thing is, one or both of you are ignoring the reasonable points of each other. And at that point, you risk making fools or trolls of yourselves.
I say just stop there, and agree to disagree
Well. I love trolling as much as the next internet gamer. But I do agree. No one wins arguments on the internet.
Well. I love trolling as much as the next internet gamer. But I do agree. No one wins arguments on the internet.
I agreed with him on one thing when he was right. But if someone is wrong you suppose to just be quiet? huh, interesting.
I have nothing personal against him but i keep seeing misinformed people talk about Star Trek and all that does is misinform more people and so on and so forth. If you wrong and need to be education on matters of star trek i am will to help you out if your curious or correct you if your wrong.
I'm sorry, but the Borg are looking more and more like they're all hype, most of the hype being from fans, not the show.
I remember the time Garth Ennis spent about a year having The Punisher blowing-up, crushing, and generally humiliating Wolverine and the accompanying Wolverine fanboi rage that went with it.
What was extra funny is that nothing the Punisher did was implausible as far as that universe was concerned. The same goes with the Borg in game and what is essentially a half century technological advantage the players have up over them... And the Dominion for that matter.
There are lots of nonsense bits in this game universe. But being able to go toe to toe with the Borg? Star Trek always has the Federation beat and then surpass their enemies. This is part of the game that rings true.
Even then, they're still a pain in the butt to fight.
I'm not suggesting they randomly change. I'm suggesting we have the Borg Queen show up next time and say, "I've restructured how we do things."
That would be actually adapting.
You know what I'd like to see? The Borg Collective all becoming individuals that just happen to agree on the course of their society because it's obvious to them that, after all their losses, the many-as-one thing works better with volunteers like the Feds.
...the Borg in game and what is essentially a half century technological advantage the players have up over them...
Another wrong statement i see flying all over the place. Not sure why everyone thinks the Borg have not advanced technologically since the end of Voyager. All Voyager did was give the Borg a heads up on what weapons were coming down the road and they would be more ready to adapt to them.
:DI am here to inform! Clearly there are many misinformed people in these forums. Its not your fault, I think it is just that everyone here has been reading incorrect statements for so long around here that they think it is correct.:D don't get mad at this but the truth hurts.
I have taken a hard position here because most people don't like to admit they are wrong or not correctly informed but i will be the light in the darkness so to speak. Sadly most people won't like this.:rolleyes:
You know what I'd like to see? The Borg Collective all becoming individuals that just happen to agree on the course of their society because it's obvious to them that, after all their losses, the many-as-one thing works better with volunteers like the Feds.
That's an interesting route.
I think the idea of going down the route of that plus a library of modular personality implants (what I was suggesting, almost like Joss Whedon's Dollhouse with decaying cyborgs) could be part of the pitch.
And it could even just be a test case with a special Unimatrix.
I think CBS will approve changes if:
- They have a story with a beginning, middle, and end. (The end can be VERY longterm.)
- They do something novel with the IP.
- They have a built in reset button that can be hit longterm.
I feel like it's taken a long time for everybody at Cryptic to grasp that fully. When somebody did, that's a big part of how they got lockboxes. But that kind of thinking doesn't have to be limited to justifying exotic cash items. It can serve gameplay.
I think it's also what fueled New Romulus and to a lesser extent FEs.
But I feel like STO in many respects got caught up engineering an iconic status quo and that the status quo of the game became a little too precious in the process, so that missions spend more time REVEALING the status quo than they do IMPACTING it.
Even the FEs and New Romulus have a lot of "dig and uncover what Kestrel wrote" and very little "play a role in a turning point event."
The big examples I can see where it felt like we were playing a role were:
What Lies Beneath (mainly due to atmosphere)
Coliseum (ditto)
Second Wave (Mainly because there's a big dramatic wormhole opening we're there for)
Still, though, even those missions are more about discovery than impact. We're always unraveling mysteries, rarely contributing to the dramatic action. Which is in contrast with how the action mechanics of the game work, which treat us as the big hero.
I'd almost like to see that reversed. More discovery based mechanics and more interactivity with lore via content.
It's a little frustrating to always be discovering what someone else did or is doing. Watching a detective your a few steps ahead of or behind is good but frustrating to play one.
I agreed with him on one thing when he was right. But if someone is wrong you suppose to just be quiet? huh, interesting.
I have nothing personal against him but i keep seeing misinformed people talk about Star Trek and all that does is misinform more people and so on and so forth. If you wrong and need to be education on matters of star trek i am will to help you out if your curious or correct you if your wrong.
If you think someone is wrong, saying so is one thing. Going on and on about it is another... you both had different opinions, but weren't exactly considering each other's POV's. That risked people thinking you were narrow-minded, stubborn, or even trollish. In other words, knowing when to stop goes a long way.
And misinformed is a matter of opinion. We all know the borg are powerful, but no one can deny they've gotten weaker as the show's gone on (VOY in particular). Add to the fact that all the major powers have developed a lot more tech as time went on (even if it isn't strictly Borg-focused), and the gameplay considerations, and you have the weaker Borg in STO.
In some cases (like adaptation in space), they deserve an upgrade, sure. But not overall, I think
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Actually, it's not wrong. It's a statement you disagree with. Learn how English works.
don't get mad at this but the truth hurts.
I can't speak for the others, but I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. Disappointed that you got to be like this. Disappointed that I can't use "The T Word" to describe everything you've written so far without getting another scold from Branflakes.
We're always unraveling mysteries, rarely contributing to the dramatic action. Which is in contrast with how the action mechanics of the game work, which treat us as the big hero.
"Thanks for doing all of that work. Now shut up while I talk to Loriss."
Actually, it's not wrong. It's a statement you disagree with.
There is a big difference between a difference of opinion and the the person just being wrong. Like I said in my previous post. There will be those people that resist and prefer their ignorance as sadly there always are.
There is a big difference between a difference of opinion and the the person just being wrong. Like I said in my previous post. There will be those people that resist and prefer their ignorance as sadly there always are.
That's the thing though: someone else being right or wrong is ALSO an opinion. It's perfectly okay if you think they're wrong, and say they're wrong (with evidence to back up your words)...
But when you just say they're wrong, with sentences like 'Just being wrong' like it's the only opinion that matters... that's when people get upset Which shows in a few replies toward you, though currently under the surface (where it should stay)
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but choice of words does matter.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
While I agree in theory, after seeing how much people complain about the Crystalline Entity encounter, I don't think people would be loving a 20-Player Borg cube fight in practice.
I suppose I'd envision it as a sort of a second "No Win Scenario" mission. The fleet members get points for how long they last. Manage to take out the Cube within a time limit, say 15 minutes, you get a title or something.
At one point in Q Who, Guinan mentions something about the Borg that seems to have been swept aside in all instances since then.
"Q set a series of events into motion, bringing contact with the Borg much sooner than it should have come. Now, perhaps when you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them. But for now, for right now, you're just raw material to them. Since they are aware of your existence."
I'm curious what about the force that destroyed her own people made her think it was possible for them to relate equally with any other race?
This is exactly the type of thing someone says when they have nothing to back them up in the discussion.
The interesting thing about pitbulls is that they're a dog so stupid that they'll hold on to anything they grab on to regardless if it makes sense or not. Even if they were a less idiotic breed its not like you could reason with them, because in the end they're still a dog. They only respond to the need to lick themselves.
The borg are a strange species, as mentioned they assimilate and adapt. They dont use creativity as its trait of individualism.
My interpretation of the borg is that once a person is assimilated they become a tool of the collective, all traces of individuality are suppressed. While this is great for consuming knowledge it essentially stifles creativity. So yeah they can take a technology provided its already been created, but they do not have the ability to develop new tech on their own.
With that in mind, what species fell to the borg, even with the ultimate weapon at their disposal, the weapon that was assimilated into the Borg Lolpedo?
Or why the feds or any other civilization havent included in every energy weapon in the last 70 years that can automatically re modulate weapons every time the trigger is pressed... Its not like this tech is alien to the universe, quarks dabo tables have a random number generator in them!
Now the biggest problem cryptic have presented us with is the way in which the federation treat or interact with the borg. We know these Borg can be rescued and implants can be removed and individuality can be restored. Even subjects taken at a young age and held in the collective for decades can be rescued ala seven of nine. So now in 2409 i can fly right up to a borg cube and destroy it in 20 -30 seconds solo. The borg cant be considered a threat now. Why are we senselessly slaughtering thousands of borg every time we take out a cube?
Id go for a real borg encounter any time, count me in for that 20 man mission to take out a real cube!
Comments
Cryptic has just done a bad job with them. They think that their players being able to blow up countless Borg Cubes will make them feel awesome. All it really does is make you feel like your really not fighting Borg. They made the Borg like they did everything else in this game. TRASH MOBS.
The Borg should have been a special event that the devs controlled periodically. Then when they attacked the alpha quadrant it would be a huge event that everyone would be excited about.
Two major things wrong:
A) Cryptic neutered the Borg and now when i see one it might as well be a leaf on a tree, nothing special
But i know this is more of an arcade game that LOOKS like Star Trek. Not more of a simulation game the tries to be a bit more true to Star Trek.
What's amazing is that the Borg are still a big bad threat at all. But they are, and will continue to be.
They will never be the curbstomp bad guys they were in TNG again. The Alpha Quadrant has learned, adapted, and assimilated enough to be able to beat back the once unstoppable Collective.
They have the motivation: Win or everyone dies forever.
That motivation was enough, Starfleet and the KDF are slowly but surely winning.
I like this, it feels like progress.
Like i said...Face palm.
They were beat with future tech. They would have adapted faster then the Feds could come up with something new as seen in EVERY EPISODE but that single voyager episode (because the tech was so advanced and required more time) when dealing with the Federation. Then only way the Starfleet has beaten the Borg has been because of special circumstances. The queen even says that they will adapt in the episode!
The first time the Enterprise encountered a cube they could have destroyed it outright if they had kept firing but Picard did not realize what he was facing. SHORTLY after the Enterprises weapons were next to worthless. Now lets say he had been teleported back to fed space right after firing phasers and dealing horrible damage to the cube and the episode ended there. By your (and many others) argument the Borg would get their butts kicked by phasers, and how wrong you would be.... They adapted...
So do FED and KDF. If it wasn't for Picard, Borg would be long gone in this time line.
I've wanted another shot at the CE since i lost as a Lt or Cmdr. Hope they bring it back.
As for the 20 person vs 1 Cube sounds interesting. In mean time we have to make due with the Borg Queen.
Say hi to Command Ships One of Two and Two of Two. They have multiple insta-kill weapons, powerful shielding and regeneration probes.
Did anyone else see the beginning of First Contact? Y'know where the Borg were losing even before the Ent-E showed up? Did anyone else see most of Voyager where many races and civilizations existed in the teeth of the Borg and seemed to be just fine?
The Borg seem to do really well when their victims aren't expecting them or when their victims run and hide. When faced and fought, they can be beaten. They're powerful, but not all-powerful. Anyone else notice that the Federation still exists in the 29th century and don't seem to be members of the Collective according to canon? Doesn't that suggest that maybe the Borg are NOT an all-powerful threat after all?
Plus, once you get past the cool imagery, the Borg are kinda boring and predictable. They can't deal with anything that does not conform to their expectations (Species 8472, Voyager, Data) they always use brute force even when subtlety would get them their goals more easily, and will actually ditch a subtle plan for no apparent reason. The Queen had a plan for an "assimilation virus" that was mentioned in Voyager, but nothing ever came of it, not surprising for the Borg as they have proven that they will die rather than change their MO. The Borg ability to "adapt" seems to be limited to changing their shields and weapons slightly to deal with incoming attacks or a victim's defenses better and that is about it. Other than that one thing, there has never been any canon evidence that the Borg are all that adaptable really.
The Federation is very adaptable, changes with the times and circumstances and will use new tactics, weapons or strategies when needed. The KDF is adaptable, they also change with the times and come up with new tech and strategies to meet a changing universe.
The Borg don't adapt, and they don't even seem to assimilate new knowledge very well as they seem monumentally resistant to change even when it is in their best interest.
The Borg, as they exist in canon, are in danger of becoming irrelevant.
Never said they were Gods. Who did? And they ARE shown as being ALMOST unstoppable except for the last episode of Voyager and i have already explained that. Are you reading?
Ummmm watch the movie again. The surface of their ship was damaged but they were NOT losing by any means.
They typically only assimilate if there is something to gain otherwise they don't bother with you.
Arrogance to think that the Federation is their most pressing priority. Good thing it is not in cannon....yet.
Ummm got me...don't know what to say to this. Watch Star Trek again?
True
Face Palm
Almost isn't good enough. Almost will lose. The Borg get stopped all the time.
Yeah, I watched it very recently, the cube was cratered, limping and looked as bad as any of the Starfleet ships that were circling it like a pack of hyenas around a baby zebra.
In fact, we never see the Borg take on and beat anyone that isn't straight out inferior to them and actually win a significant victory of any sort. Last time they took on a power roughly in their league (8472) they got stomped until Voyager helped them.
Voth. Hirogen. Krenim. Whoever those guys were with interstellar transporters. Nothing to be gained? I'd say they must have a different idea of what is worthwhile.
Ummm... They can cross the galaxy in minutes, have a proven interest in the Federation and most especially Earth. They manage to accomplish sweet jack-all in FOUR HUNDRED YEARS?!? The Borg just went from scary to laughable.
I'm sorry, but the Borg are looking more and more like they're all hype, most of the hype being from fans, not the show.
I'd like to see the Borg become truly adaptable and creative but it would mean changing them from zombies into vampires. And people would cry bloody murder.
Like I've said before, give us a Borg Baron, a Borg Count, a Borg Duchess. Shift us from the dawn of industrialization into a late Victorian era or even a take inspired by Russia circa the Bolsheviks. The Borg take on individuality but a modular kind of individuality with everyone getting the personality needed for the task at hand. Shifted from an Asimov take to a Philip K. **** kind of take.
Instead of suppressing individuality, they feed on it and steal it and reassign it to whatever drone needs it.
The Borg don't need something OLD done with them. You want the old Borg, put it in a time travel mission. The Borg need to be handled in new ways to be interesting, not constantly be reset to the same old boring boogeyman.
Not conventionally. Plot for a good show is your answer lol
HAHA wow. Make sure you are watching the movie with Patric Stewart as captain Picard.
Answered your self with this one.
Again, you answered your self in the previous quote.
And you get a nice Picard Face Palm for that one.
2 hours wasted is a considerable penalty for failure that most people will not put up with. Most people with disposable income have said income from work. 2 hours for a single mission is a considerable investment of time.
That would be contrary to the lore. Remember when Data sent the sleep command? The Borg can no more split off chunks of their consciousness than you can will your foot to become a separate entity.
Exactly. And I want to see NEW LORE that changes how they operate.
The whole point of being set after the shows is that things can deviate from the lore because THINGS CHANGE.
I'm not suggesting they randomly change. I'm suggesting we have the Borg Queen show up next time and say, "I've restructured how we do things."
I say just stop there, and agree to disagree
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Well. I love trolling as much as the next internet gamer.
I agreed with him on one thing when he was right. But if someone is wrong you suppose to just be quiet? huh, interesting.
I have nothing personal against him but i keep seeing misinformed people talk about Star Trek and all that does is misinform more people and so on and so forth. If you wrong and need to be education on matters of star trek i am will to help you out if your curious or correct you if your wrong.
I remember the time Garth Ennis spent about a year having The Punisher blowing-up, crushing, and generally humiliating Wolverine and the accompanying Wolverine fanboi rage that went with it.
What was extra funny is that nothing the Punisher did was implausible as far as that universe was concerned. The same goes with the Borg in game and what is essentially a half century technological advantage the players have up over them... And the Dominion for that matter.
There are lots of nonsense bits in this game universe. But being able to go toe to toe with the Borg? Star Trek always has the Federation beat and then surpass their enemies. This is part of the game that rings true.
Even then, they're still a pain in the butt to fight.
That would be actually adapting.
You know what I'd like to see? The Borg Collective all becoming individuals that just happen to agree on the course of their society because it's obvious to them that, after all their losses, the many-as-one thing works better with volunteers like the Feds.
Another wrong statement i see flying all over the place. Not sure why everyone thinks the Borg have not advanced technologically since the end of Voyager. All Voyager did was give the Borg a heads up on what weapons were coming down the road and they would be more ready to adapt to them.
:DI am here to inform! Clearly there are many misinformed people in these forums. Its not your fault, I think it is just that everyone here has been reading incorrect statements for so long around here that they think it is correct.:D don't get mad at this but the truth hurts.
I have taken a hard position here because most people don't like to admit they are wrong or not correctly informed but i will be the light in the darkness so to speak. Sadly most people won't like this.:rolleyes:
That's an interesting route.
I think the idea of going down the route of that plus a library of modular personality implants (what I was suggesting, almost like Joss Whedon's Dollhouse with decaying cyborgs) could be part of the pitch.
And it could even just be a test case with a special Unimatrix.
I think CBS will approve changes if:
- They have a story with a beginning, middle, and end. (The end can be VERY longterm.)
- They do something novel with the IP.
- They have a built in reset button that can be hit longterm.
I feel like it's taken a long time for everybody at Cryptic to grasp that fully. When somebody did, that's a big part of how they got lockboxes. But that kind of thinking doesn't have to be limited to justifying exotic cash items. It can serve gameplay.
I think it's also what fueled New Romulus and to a lesser extent FEs.
But I feel like STO in many respects got caught up engineering an iconic status quo and that the status quo of the game became a little too precious in the process, so that missions spend more time REVEALING the status quo than they do IMPACTING it.
Even the FEs and New Romulus have a lot of "dig and uncover what Kestrel wrote" and very little "play a role in a turning point event."
The big examples I can see where it felt like we were playing a role were:
What Lies Beneath (mainly due to atmosphere)
Coliseum (ditto)
Second Wave (Mainly because there's a big dramatic wormhole opening we're there for)
Still, though, even those missions are more about discovery than impact. We're always unraveling mysteries, rarely contributing to the dramatic action. Which is in contrast with how the action mechanics of the game work, which treat us as the big hero.
I'd almost like to see that reversed. More discovery based mechanics and more interactivity with lore via content.
It's a little frustrating to always be discovering what someone else did or is doing. Watching a detective your a few steps ahead of or behind is good but frustrating to play one.
And misinformed is a matter of opinion. We all know the borg are powerful, but no one can deny they've gotten weaker as the show's gone on (VOY in particular). Add to the fact that all the major powers have developed a lot more tech as time went on (even if it isn't strictly Borg-focused), and the gameplay considerations, and you have the weaker Borg in STO.
In some cases (like adaptation in space), they deserve an upgrade, sure. But not overall, I think
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Actually, it's not wrong. It's a statement you disagree with. Learn how English works.
I can't speak for the others, but I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. Disappointed that you got to be like this. Disappointed that I can't use "The T Word" to describe everything you've written so far without getting another scold from Branflakes.
"Thanks for doing all of that work. Now shut up while I talk to Loriss."
Ah... Another day on the life of the hero! :mad:
Besides, if we want an experience much like the show we already have it: the Borg aren't weak, we have plot armor!
There is a big difference between a difference of opinion and the the person just being wrong. Like I said in my previous post. There will be those people that resist and prefer their ignorance as sadly there always are.
*Face Palm*
This is exactly the type of thing someone says when they have nothing to back them up in the discussion.
But when you just say they're wrong, with sentences like 'Just being wrong' like it's the only opinion that matters... that's when people get upset
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but choice of words does matter.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I suppose I'd envision it as a sort of a second "No Win Scenario" mission. The fleet members get points for how long they last. Manage to take out the Cube within a time limit, say 15 minutes, you get a title or something.
"Q set a series of events into motion, bringing contact with the Borg much sooner than it should have come. Now, perhaps when you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them. But for now, for right now, you're just raw material to them. Since they are aware of your existence."
I'm curious what about the force that destroyed her own people made her think it was possible for them to relate equally with any other race?
The interesting thing about pitbulls is that they're a dog so stupid that they'll hold on to anything they grab on to regardless if it makes sense or not. Even if they were a less idiotic breed its not like you could reason with them, because in the end they're still a dog. They only respond to the need to lick themselves.
My interpretation of the borg is that once a person is assimilated they become a tool of the collective, all traces of individuality are suppressed. While this is great for consuming knowledge it essentially stifles creativity. So yeah they can take a technology provided its already been created, but they do not have the ability to develop new tech on their own.
With that in mind, what species fell to the borg, even with the ultimate weapon at their disposal, the weapon that was assimilated into the Borg Lolpedo?
Or why the feds or any other civilization havent included in every energy weapon in the last 70 years that can automatically re modulate weapons every time the trigger is pressed... Its not like this tech is alien to the universe, quarks dabo tables have a random number generator in them!
Now the biggest problem cryptic have presented us with is the way in which the federation treat or interact with the borg. We know these Borg can be rescued and implants can be removed and individuality can be restored. Even subjects taken at a young age and held in the collective for decades can be rescued ala seven of nine. So now in 2409 i can fly right up to a borg cube and destroy it in 20 -30 seconds solo. The borg cant be considered a threat now. Why are we senselessly slaughtering thousands of borg every time we take out a cube?
Id go for a real borg encounter any time, count me in for that 20 man mission to take out a real cube!
Cubeageddon - You are the last hope. Find it in the Foundry!
The Space Race - An alternate to PVP - In Foundry Now!