Massively Voting Contest STO vs LotRO

torskaldr · January 2013

Massively is having a voting contest between STO and LotRO.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01/21/leaderboard-lord-of-the-rings-online-vs-star-trek-online/#continued

I'm not sure what it's about really, but I couldn't just stand by and let LotRO out Twitter us. They're ahead 4152 to 1597. They're all smug on their forum, don't let them get away with it!

jkstocbr · January 2013

Damn they really overtook us. Oh well, I am playing the game I like to play. LOTR is just another fantasy MMO that puts me to ... zzzzzzz .... snorrrr

idrona · January 2013

STO

1603 (27.8%) now.

Gogogo!

torskaldr · January 2013

Thanks for voting or considering it. I've played LotRO since before launch. There is nothing wrong with that game, but I think STO is a much better game and offers a lot more value. Plus Turbine always mobilizes through social media so I thought it good to get the word out.

betawatcher · January 2013

Let me be clear: I enjoy STO more. But when it comes to capturing the IP, its not even close. STO is like taking all the Trek shows and putting them in a blender. Which I like, because it lets you make STO whatever kind of Trek you want. But LOTRO is as accurate a depiction of what being in Middle Earth would be like as an MMO can be. The same is not true of STO and the Trek universe.

artanisen · January 2013

no need to vote, Star trek online is better, no matter what the out come is.

centersolace · January 2013

Feh. LotRO has nothing really special about it. STO in spite of all it's failings and flaws has much more potential, and is much more fun. :P

dracounguis · January 2013

STO is being skunked 72/28 but this falls under the 'any press is good press' category. If STO was not doing reasonably well, no one would bother comparing it to anything.

centersolace · January 2013

sirsitsalot wrote: »

I just wish that Cryptic would put more of a concerted effort into putting the IP at the heart of their forward-going development process the way Turbine has. As you say, STO has potential. I just am not seeing an effort on Cryptic's part to really reach for that potential. Personally, I think that has more to do with PWE's influence than anything else. PWE was not the savior of the game that we were led to believe they would be. Since they took over, it feels LESS like a Star Trek universe experience than it did under Atari.

If it was not Free to Play, I would not be here at all... I see its potential as well. But they will never reach it so long as the only thing they prioritize in development is what makes them money... Or more accurately, so long as they continue to avoid charging for what people want them to produce: PLAYABLE CONTENT. Until content makes them money (after almost three years, there has been no announcement of any retail expansions) they won't make content a priority.

Oh I absolutely agree. I didn't start playing this game until it went free to play myself. But this is the only MMO I have stuck with for longer than a couple of months. So that's an achievement by itself, but I don't see myself going anywhere anytime soon.

I know PWE hasn't been a saint by any means, but we could have far harsher masters. :P STO already has all the ingredients to make the perfect Star Trek MMO already, Cryptic just needs to mix them in the right ways. Particularly now with the new reputation system. It has it's flaws to be sure, but I kind of rather like it. It's a huge roadblock, but now Cryptic has a way to make money off of actual content without making it P2W, and without having to make paid content expansions.

Sure STO has a long way to go. But I willing to ride with it there.

oriklein · January 2013

torskaldr wrote: »

Massively is having a voting contest between STO and LotRO.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01/21/leaderboard-lord-of-the-rings-online-vs-star-trek-online/#continued

I'm not sure what it's about really, but I couldn't just stand by and let LotRO out Twitter us. They're ahead 4152 to 1597. They're all smug on their forum, don't let them get away with it!

I suggest a new strategy R2. Let the wookie win.

hippiejon · January 2013

I would honestly wish that Cryptic takes a look at the results of that poll and realizes a couple important things.

But if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

They will likely ignore the fact that to achieve such a skew in favor of the other game, means that some , actually many players of this game voted for the other guy.

I honestly don't think the results of this will make a difference to them, and nothing we see upcoming will lead the game as a whole back toward the IP.

shrug

zarathos1978 · January 2013

The only thing STO has common with Star Trek are names and some design. There is literally no Star Trek feel (unless Galaxy shooting phasers is ST feel) in the game, no ST-like plot for the PvE (ok, no plot at all). It's not Star Trek game. It's just your generic, no-plot pew pew space based MMO that looks like Star Trek.

No wonder LotR got more voices. I'm actually surprised that STO got any. But I think it got them because voters have not read what the poll is about and just voted for their favourite game.

xthesilent1x · January 2013

sirsitsalot wrote: »

Well, Turbine's efforts are geared towards delivering a Middle-earth experience in LotRO. By that token, I don't want to compare to LotRO so much as I would like to see Cryptic's efforts become geared towards delivering a Star Trek universe experience.

I just don't feel like Cryptic takes the IP seriously enough.

I am an MMO fan on one hand. I am also a fan of Lord of the Rings, AND of Star Trek. So when I came to STO and to LotRO, I came as a fan of those IPs respectively. The biggest fundamental difference between STO and LotRO is that while LotRO was designed in such a way that the game's mechanics were wrapped around the IP, STO was designed in such a way that the IP was stretched around the game's mechanics.

Look at Risa... We have a beach, some hammocks and some trails to explore. We don't have the risa resort that was shown in the shows.

In Lord of the Rings Online, if I climb to the top of Weathertop, I find scorched earth, and the G-rune with the three marks that Gandalf left there. Someone who doesn't really care about Lord of the Rings likely wouldn't notice it. But anyone who calls themself a Tolkien Reader would automatically find themselvs looking for it, and smiling with pleasure at finding it.

To me it's not about which game is "better" so much as it is about which game puts forth a better effort to be true to its source material. I really wish I could say that it is STO. But as one who loves both Star Trek and Lord of the Rings, I would be lying if I did.

This is about as perfect as anyone could say it. They followed the Tolkien lore as close as they could possibly do it in a MMO environment, and to that i applaud them. STO is only star trek in its graphical looks, it is not in any way lore dependent. Sure they have the basic story line in the missions, but no depth to them at all. It just feels as someone else said...a space flight pew pew game set in a star trek theme, not like star trek itself.

On a side note, the first thing i did when i got to Lone-Lands for the first time was to scale weathertop and the first thing i did when i got there was find the cairn with the Runestone. And was pleasantly surprised to find it.

captainrevo1 · January 2013

The question is 'Which do you think does a better job of translating its source material into a fun MMO?' and quite frankly LOTR does a better job, but its helped by its genre.

im not actually that big of a fan of the game and prefer STO, but STO is very MMO heavy rather than IP heavy. Im ok with that, as i honestly think if they tried to make the game 100% IP focused and tried to make a gamed version of the show, it would be pretty boring to play, especially for the MMO crowd, but Ip gets sacrificed. STO would work much better as a single player game.

Fantasy games get an easier time being converted than something like Trek, which has to wear many hats, and can go combat and grind heavy and not be criticised.

bladeriel · January 2013

Lotro respected the IP fairly well until Moria. Then they introduced runekeepers riding on goats killing mobs with lightning strikes. On the other hand you can see Galors, D'Koras, bugships, tholian and breen ships and alike in STO. At this point neither games respect their IP as much as purists whish, so voting is irrelevant and is about "which game I like more of these two'.

diogene0 · January 2013

sirsitsalot wrote: »

Well, Turbine's efforts are geared towards delivering a Middle-earth experience in LotRO. By that token, I don't want to compare to LotRO so much as I would like to see Cryptic's efforts become geared towards delivering a Star Trek universe experience.

I just don't feel like Cryptic takes the IP seriously enough.

I am an MMO fan on one hand. I am also a fan of Lord of the Rings, AND of Star Trek. So when I came to STO and to LotRO, I came as a fan of those IPs respectively. The biggest fundamental difference between STO and LotRO is that while LotRO was designed in such a way that the game's mechanics were wrapped around the IP, STO was designed in such a way that the IP was stretched around the game's mechanics.

Look at Risa... We have a beach, some hammocks and some trails to explore. We don't have the risa resort that was shown in the shows.

In Lord of the Rings Online, if I climb to the top of Weathertop, I find scorched earth, and the G-rune with the three marks that Gandalf left there. Someone who doesn't really care about Lord of the Rings likely wouldn't notice it. But anyone who calls themself a Tolkien Reader would automatically find themselvs looking for it, and smiling with pleasure at finding it.

To me it's not about which game is "better" so much as it is about which game puts forth a better effort to be true to its source material. I really wish I could say that it is STO. But as one who loves both Star Trek and Lord of the Rings, I would be lying if I did.

You're also ignoring two major aspects in this debate. STO's team is still rather small. It's hard to make a lot of story content and places to go when you struggle to fix bugs and to create one new social/adventure zone every year. I think the "Trek feel" you're talking about is existing on new romulus though. It's not a perfect place but it makes sense.

The other issue is that most of the Star Trek IP is based around philosophy, ethics, and scientific munbo-jumbo (TNG), finding a way to punch aliens in the face after 25 minutes of weird and slow character interactions (TOS), or around character interactions (DS9), and these elements aren't easy to bring into a game. It's really easier to make something looking like an IP if half of the said IP is counting your kills with a dward, sending fireballs in your enemy's face, or finding new ways to behead your opponent.

Middle Earth is at war, Star trek's galaxy isn't, and it's easier to build a MMO around epic battles rather than ethics.

I may agree with you as a TNG fan but i'm also aware of the fact that it's a game and popular games are those where you kill stuff.

darkenzedd · January 2013

I voted LOTRO. In light of the recent lockbox fail, it was the only choice....

claransa · January 2013

The results of this vote were no suprprise to me.

LOTRO has about two dozen books and 4 movies defining its IP.

STO has half a dozen TV series most of which went 7 seasons, 9 movies and a few hundred books defiining its IP that span a few hundred years of development. (no not all of it canon) but still...

This was never a fair comparison.

Love both games, ditched LOTRO to become a lifer on STO.

solomace · January 2013

diogene0 wrote: »

You're also ignoring two major aspects in this debate. STO's team is still rather small. It's hard to make a lot of story content and places to go when you struggle to fix bugs and to create one new social/adventure zone every year..

Really? Your gonna bring this out again as a defense.

I think this is the only tool left in the locker for those still trying to defend this game and it gets tiresome.

So basically, Cryptic weren't big enough to take on such a large and famous IP and what you see is what you get? Maybe they shouldn't have had it in the first place only having a small team and not able to do the IP justice.

I blame Atari, CBS, Perpetual, but mostly Cryptic for this IP in name only single player mmo...

I may not be a big fan of Lotr, but at least it feels alive and feels like Middle Earth. This, well you know how I feel.

I notice Bran didn't put this "poll" in federation news.;)

theanothername · January 2013

From the contest page:

Which do you think does a better job of translating its source material into a fun MMO?

I really like STO. I prefer to play that rather than Lotro (I did played it for a while). But if I would vote (I don't) I would vote for Lotro; much more consitent and true to its IP.

darkenzedd · January 2013

solomace wrote: »

Really? Your gonna bring this out again as a defense.

I think this is the only tool left in the locker for those still trying to defend this game and it gets tiresome.

So basically, Cryptic weren't big enough to take on such a large and famous IP and what you see is what you get? Maybe they shouldn't have had it in the first place only having a small team and not able to do the IP justice.

I blame Atari, CBS, Perpetual, but mostly Cryptic for this IP in name only single player mmo...

I may not be a big fan of Lotr, but at least it feels alive and feels like Middle Earth. This, well you know how I feel.

I notice Bran didn't put this "poll" in federation news.;)

Give them their due, they are at least consistent, which is something Cryptic only dreams of unless you include lockboxes.......

baudl · January 2013

the better game surely is LotR, but it is not really a fair comparison in my opinion. The 2 games have literally nothing incommon other than being f2p. The setting couldn't be more different.

a fair comparison would have been star wars galaxys...which also had space combat and ground combat and was a scifi game, but is now gone and never was f2p.

i rather liked a comparison of f2p games some time ago, where they compared different aspects of games, instead of the games as a whole.

solomace · January 2013

baudl wrote: »

the better game surely is LotR, but it is not really a fair comparison in my opinion. The 2 games have literally nothing incommon other than being f2p. The setting couldn't be more different.

a fair comparison would have been star wars galaxys...which also had space combat and ground combat and was a scifi game, but is now gone and never was f2p.

i rather liked a comparison of f2p games some time ago, where they compared different aspects of games, instead of the games as a whole.

Pre NGE, SWG beats STO. After NGE, SWG beats STO (and I hated the game after NGE).

Still it wasn't F2P, so it's not a fair comparison and it had a bigger team as some will rush to say too...:P

diogene0 · January 2013

solomace wrote: »

Really? Your gonna bring this out again as a defense.

I think this is the only tool left in the locker for those still trying to defend this game and it gets tiresome.

So basically, Cryptic weren't big enough to take on such a large and famous IP and what you see is what you get? Maybe they shouldn't have had it in the first place only having a small team and not able to do the IP justice.

I blame Atari, CBS, Perpetual, but mostly Cryptic for this IP in name only single player mmo...

I may not be a big fan of Lotr, but at least it feels alive and feels like Middle Earth. This, well you know how I feel.

I like the fact that you quoted the most unimportant argument i gave, while you "forget" to answer to what really makes the difference between those games, which is the nature of the IPs themselves. One is about heroically slaughtering evil guys between two unending and boring descriptions (in the books), which makes a very easy and obvious MMO translation, the other one is much more complex. :rolleyes:

dalnar83 · January 2013

Although I'm no longer playing LOTRO, I like which way the game was heading with its F2P. I cannot the same about STO. My vote is clear.

zahinder · January 2013

I suspect if we went to the LOTRO forum we'd see the reverse of this discussion. Heh.

(Nearly every MMO thinks their developers are the worst, ever)

catulla4 · January 2013

After experiencing bug after bug and then basically being locked out of STO for a long time due to my computer, which never changed, not being to play STO (even after many attempts with their technical support)...I have to say that LOTRO never had issues this bad.

Plus, LOTRO is easier to follow and has a better story line, great graphics, less "cookie cutter" builds, etc, and is just much more fun to play.

STO has tons and tons of potential and is fun to play. But, sorry Cryptic, it is just not all there yet. It was a nice try though.

solomace · January 2013

diogene0 wrote: »

I like the fact that you quoted the most unimportant argument i gave, while you "forget" to answer to what really makes the difference between those games, which is the nature of the IPs themselves. One is about heroically slaughtering evil guys between two unending and boring descriptions (in the books), which makes a very easy and obvious MMO translation, the other one is much more complex. :rolleyes:

And I notice you didn't respond to what I actually said either.

Your the one who brought up small size dev team as a defence of STO. I just pointed out that this statement has been used by day 1, not only by the supporters, but also by the devs themselves and it's now used as a convenient excuse for a lot of STO's ills, both past and present.

linyive · January 2013

sirsitsalot wrote: »

I just don't feel like Cryptic takes the IP seriously enough.

I am an MMO fan on one hand. I am also a fan of Lord of the Rings, AND of Star Trek. So when I came to STO and to LotRO, I came as a fan of those IPs respectively. The biggest fundamental difference between STO and LotRO is that while LotRO was designed in such a way that the game's mechanics were wrapped around the IP, STO was designed in such a way that the IP was stretched around the game's mechanics.

Look at Risa... We have a beach, some hammocks and some trails to explore. We don't have the risa resort that was shown in the shows.

In Lord of the Rings Online, if I climb to the top of Weathertop, I find scorched earth, and the G-rune with the three marks that Gandalf left there. Someone who doesn't really care about Lord of the Rings likely wouldn't notice it. But anyone who calls themself a Tolkien Reader would automatically find themselvs looking for it, and smiling with pleasure at finding it.

To me it's not about which game is "better" so much as it is about which game puts forth a better effort to be true to its source material. I really wish I could say that it is STO. But as one who loves both Star Trek and Lord of the Rings, I would be lying if I did.

I agree.

"Star Trek: Online" is a patch work of historical franchise elements, which were stitched together with an artistic license. Cryptic had to invent explanations for why historical franchise elements exited in the 25th century. In order to achieve their overall goals, Cryptic created nonexistent elements to fuse everything together. Some of those nonexistent "Star Trek" elements include: M.A.C.O. Armors, Omega Armors, armors, mini-guns, blast-guns, antiproton weapons, etc...

Second, while "Lord of the Rings" and "Star Wars: The Old Republic" are role-playing games, "Star Trek: Online" fits into the strategy game category. While there are story and role-playing mechanics in place, "Star Trek: Online" does not fuse them together in a "Dragon Age: Origins" and "Star Wars: The Old Republic" manner. Players do not have dialogue choices, which influence the 'overall' flow of a 'main' story. New Romulus is an example. During the cut-scenes on New Romulus, the player does not have the ability to choose between options. Your avatar just bounces her or his head, walks, and allows another npc to ramble. I do not think you can compare two different games, which were built with two different gaming styles. I could be wrong.

sirsitsalot wrote: »

Look at Risa... We have a beach, some hammocks and some trails to explore. We don't have the risa resort that was shown in the shows.

I feel your pain.

Bajor should be the stepping stone in which all social zones should follow. If Cryptic dedicated a half a season to revamping social zones, (adding non-grinding contexts, depth, new designs, story elements, and mini-missions), I think many people will shout out with joy. As long as those new environments are geared towards the social experience, many people will find some sort of use for them. Do you know what Cryptic will do? Cryptic will find someway to destroy those environments with grinding reputation marks.

hravik · January 2013

This kind of shows what I was thinking about the 'Best F2P MMO of the Year' award Cryptic got. On a more well known site, against other games, STO really doesn't stand a chance. The other site they had to ask us to vote on, and was one few had heard of, I certainly hadn't.

STO isn't terrible by any means, but neither is it a great game either.

linyive · January 2013

sirsitsalot wrote: »

... If it took them the entirety of Season 6's run to develop the material for Season 7, then I really feel that there is a problem. I can see environment design taking that long. But in terms of mission content? It's repetitive grindy TRIBBLE that was designed to be repetitive grindy TRIBBLE, in an age where most MMO players are fed up with repetitive grindy TRIBBLE...

I agree.

While the new content is welcomed, the mechanic used to deliver them stinks.

If you remember back when they boasted about new 'on ship' missions, Cryptic had us thinking they were going to make actual 'tasked missions'. rofl... We ended up getting duty officer click missions, which involves zero mental thinking or strategy. *yawn*

As a result of all the grinding involved with Season Six, the arrival and missteps of Season Seven caused me to abandon fleets. Once you add in all the waiting periods, (20 hour timers for a single project, 24 hour timer for dilithium cap reset, 15 minute tier claims, 1+ days for fleet base upgrades, 24 hour waits for fleet base projects, etc...), the grinding and waiting process makes you consider leaving. I do not see how this system is suppose to be fun.

On a related note, although I was able to gather enough resources, the 8,000 dilithium refinement limitation has hindered my progress. Instead of being able to claim my items within one day, I have to wait two days to cap off a single 9,000 dilithium requirement item. In order for me to claim all three pieces of my armor set, I have to pause my game time for four days. I sign in for five minutes a day, refine what I can in dilithium, fill the requirements to 8,000 dilithium, sign out, and return the next day to repeat and/or finish the process. I currently have two STF pieces of gear in my rep queue, and its going to take me three days to claim them. Even though I put in my time to grind the resources, another time gate has caused me to stop playing. Ironically, I have to wait until 7:00 pm every night, so that the dilithium cap gets reset.

...and, to think I spent over $200 on zen. What was I thinking? rofl...

Even though Cryptic denies what I said a few days ago, I still think "Star Trek: Online" will be closing its doors by the end of the year. I do not see how the fleet base, embassy, and reputation system can add up to fun.

Massively Voting Contest STO vs LotRO

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