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docking at ESD

grydengryden Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited December 2012 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
I don't know if this has been asked before but I have been wanting to see us being able to actually fly into and dock at ESD and DS9. Is this a possibility or something that may be coming soon?
Post edited by gryden on
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  • nightmarechi1dnightmarechi1d Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    You can do it at ESD, but not at DS9 as far as I know. At ESD just fly toward the space doors and they'll open. Fly inside. It won't do anything special though, you'll just wind up beaming aboard like usual.
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  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    gryden wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been asked before but I have been wanting to see us being able to actually fly into and dock at ESD and DS9. Is this a possibility or something that may be coming soon?

    Starbase 39, the only way to get on board that used to be flying into it...
  • focslainfocslain Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Actually you can dock at DS9, but requires a bit of piloting to get it to look right.

    There are no docking bays big enough for the standard starships on the other bases at this time. Might be in the T5 base, but I haven't seen one yet.
  • darimunddarimund Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ds9 non sector space model isn't scaled properly. It's way too big, either that or the ship models are all way too small.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    darimund wrote: »
    ds9 non sector space model isn't scaled properly. It's way too big, either that or the ship models are all way too small.

    DS9's scaling has always been an issue since Beta and Cryptic pretty much has changed it's size several times.

    I forgot Cryptic's reason for not scaling it to it's proper size, but think it boiled down to that it's true size was too small and players

    gryden wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been asked before but I have been wanting to see us being able to actually fly into and dock at ESD and DS9. Is this a possibility or something that may be coming soon?

    Like said above you can fake dock at DS9 by pulling up to a docking pylon, and BoPs and Defiants can dock in the docking ring like in the show.

    As for ESD, only thing I could suggest for docking at ESD is making a cutscene with your ship.
  • blevokblevok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    the inside docking area of esd exists, it's an actual space. there's just an invisible wall in front of the opening that triggers the beam in when hit. it would be awesome if the wall was removed and we could fly around inside, only beaming in when we choose to click the button. failing that, at least moving the wall a little bit inside the door would be good, so we actually fly into the door before beaming in.
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  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    And what of other players? It's one thing with a single person, but if you get more it's going to be a traffic jam.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    azurianstar wrote: »
    DS9's scaling has always been an issue since Beta and Cryptic pretty much has changed it's size several times.

    I forgot Cryptic's reason for not scaling it to it's proper size, but think it boiled down to that it's true size was too small and players
    .

    Even in the show DS9 scale was never accurate, since they changed it sometimes to fit certain ships.
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  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Even in the show DS9 scale was never accurate, since they changed it sometimes to fit certain ships.

    Well that's a given, which is part of the blame why the scales off.

    Bet if we had the proper sized DS9, people would complain it's too small.
  • collegepark2151collegepark2151 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    azurianstar wrote: »
    And what of other players? It's one thing with a single person, but if you get more it's going to be a traffic jam.

    Just add some friendly fire... problem solved. ;)

    Can you imagine the junk flying around after a dustup in a confined space like that? Would probably take ESD out with it.
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  • darthwoodarthwoo Member Posts: 371 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Just a bit of a minor nitpick about ESD, but it would be nice if they could model the little landing-strip-light things that run from the doors to the center. You can see them from the shipyard requisition area, but from outside the bottom surface of the docking bay is just a plain flat surface with a few windows.
  • starhoundstarhound Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I always remember In Bridge Commander, I loved flying into the Starbase and 'launching' out of it to go on a mission.
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  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,821 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    A simple triggers skippable cutscene for each bases docking proceedure would be the simple solution. After all, most cruisers will not fit through the doors of ESD and you can't actually fly your ship inside or anything close. Once you get close though to the doors, it just beams you down.
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  • blevokblevok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    azurianstar wrote: »
    And what of other players? It's one thing with a single person, but if you get more it's going to be a traffic jam.

    that's a complete bs excuse thats been used too many times to make things in game redicularge. it's not like every single ship in orbit will try to get inside, and if they do, well that's just a reality of life in space. we are intelligent beings and we can handle a traffic jam if one ever arises. too many things are like this in sto. double-wide corridors, 12+ foot high celings, turbolifts that can fit 20 people. we don't need the devs to protect us from ourselves at the cost of some much needed immersion.
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  • tenkaritenkari Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Even in the show DS9 scale was never accurate, since they changed it sometimes to fit certain ships.

    everything in DS9 was weird scale wise. DS9 and the Defiant are the most known ones.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Even in the show DS9 scale was never accurate, since they changed it sometimes to fit certain ships.
    Yeah, DS9's size compared to Voyager was about the same as that compared to the Ent-D, which is TRIBBLE.... Since the D is several times larger.
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  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    When you get close enough to ESD first the dock button shows then maneuvering thrusters, the later is just an indicator that when that close to the dock your speed is dramatically decreased.
    What I would like to see is an animated cutscene that shows your ship maneuvering through the doors and pulling up to a docking port ending with you spawning in a docking port entrance, maybe on the lower station level which currently has no use.
    It would be fun to be able to fly into the station manually but realistically everyone would be trying it and the result would be a major traffic jam with ships jammed together so bad they would have to warp to sector to get out.
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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited December 2012
    DS9's exterior is too big. This is a battle I waged when I first started on the project, but the bottom line is that "real" size is too small to have any significant gameplay around it (note, the 2800), and if it were that size in the normal social zone, it would drown in player ships. So, it's big.

    ESD is pretty close to correct for player ships. The problem is that the interior is really not a big space. If we pulled those invisible walls, and you flew in, you would be hitting your hull on everything, your camera would be pushed into first person view, and you really couldn't do anything in there. And that's if it were JUST you. I'm picturing 20-30 players trying to cram their ships into that space, and it just wouldn't work.
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  • trhrangerxmltrhrangerxml Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    As a Trek fan the inside and outside of DS9 has been the biggest bug I've had. I mean the battles in the series don't take place between the pylons, but because the station is so big everything is focused between them. Ships should be outside and around DS9, not on top, like we see when ever there is a major fleet stationed there in the series. Scale the station right and put the ships sitting outside the station somewhere, not on top of it, kills the mood big time.
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  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Since the D is several times larger.

    Not to be a stickler to canon, but the "D" (642 meters) is actually less than twice the size of an Intrepid Class (344 meters). That being said, when has things ever been completely canon in terms of sizes on the shows, especially in regards to DS9? The Defiant Class is anywhere from 70 meters in length, to 170 meters depending on the source. These same sources can't seem to agree on if the Defiant has 4 or 6 Decks.

    Bottomline; No scaling in the game will ever be accurate to all sources, since every source is different. Pick a source, and stick with it.
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  • nattydnattyd Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tacofangs wrote: »
    ESD is pretty close to correct for player ships. The problem is that the interior is really not a big space. If we pulled those invisible walls, and you flew in, you would be hitting your hull on everything, your camera would be pushed into first person view, and you really couldn't do anything in there. And that's if it were JUST you. I'm picturing 20-30 players trying to cram their ships into that space, and it just wouldn't work.

    Can we just have a simple cutscene then? As a bare minium, it'll be a decent bit of eyecandy and add a little bit of immersion.
  • mandoknight89mandoknight89 Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    meurik wrote: »
    Not to be a stickler to canon, but the "D" (642 meters) is actually less than twice the size of an Intrepid Class (344 meters).

    Which, volume-wise, is several times bigger...
  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    mandoknight89 wrote: »
    Which, volume-wise, is several times bigger...

    That's not what markhawman said.
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  • sfc#5932 sfc
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         Member Posts: 992 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2012
    nattyd wrote: »
    Can we just have a simple cutscene then? As a bare minium, it'll be a decent bit of eyecandy and add a little bit of immersion.
    You'd be required to see it once (when you are first welcomed to ESD) then you can skip it everytime after.
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,788 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    nakedsnake001 wrote: »
    You'd be required to see it once (when you are first welcomed to ESD) then you can skip it everytime after.


    Just set it so that the scene triggers at the same place on the model as the auto-transport that you get when you fly against the starbase's doors. People can skip the scene simply by using the regular manual transport button rather than trying to fly inside.
  • mrj58mrj58 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tacofangs wrote: »
    DS9's exterior is too big. This is a battle I waged when I first started on the project, but the bottom line is that "real" size is too small to have any significant gameplay around it (note, the 2800), and if it were that size in the normal social zone, it would drown in player ships. So, it's big.
    trhrangerxml wrote: »
    As a Trek fan the inside and outside of DS9 has been the biggest bug I've had. I mean the battles in the series don't take place between the pylons, but because the station is so big everything is focused between them. Ships should be outside and around DS9, not on top, like we see when ever there is a major fleet stationed there in the series. Scale the station right and put the ships sitting outside the station somewhere, not on top of it, kills the mood big time.

    This. Absolutely this. DS9 is my favourite Trek series, but I try to avoid DS9 in STO as much as possible because it looks so bad, inside and out, mainly due to the ridiculous size of the station.

    When we leave ESD we spawn in quite a distance away facing the Star Base we just left. So why is it when we leave DS9 we spawn on top of each other between the upper docking pylons? It looks stupid, why can't we spawn the same way we do at ESD? That way DS9 could be a proper size.


    tacofangs wrote: »
    ESD is pretty close to correct for player ships. The problem is that the interior is really not a big space. If we pulled those invisible walls, and you flew in, you would be hitting your hull on everything, your camera would be pushed into first person view, and you really couldn't do anything in there. And that's if it were JUST you. I'm picturing 20-30 players trying to cram their ships into that space, and it just wouldn't work.

    This I agree with. In The Search For Spock with just the Enterprise and Excelsior it looked pretty crowded in Star Base 001. Sure, by the 24th century the Starbases were scaled up to reuse the ST III footage and model. But even then there wouldn't be much room for more than a couple Galaxy class ships in there. In STO with even bigger ships it wouldn't work at all.
  • born2bwild1born2bwild1 Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Just like how fast warp speed is - how fast they reach the destination is: "how fast the plot requires"

    size of the ship/station is "how big/small the plot/set requires"

    And the Last JJ movie did not change the "how fast the plot requires either"

    On the trip to Vulcan the Captain order max speed to Vulcan from earth- even given warp 9 which was too fast for that ship - it is still a several day trip at over 16 ly

    The captain givens a impassioned speech to the crew of the ship - then after finishing the helm says we "will be arriving at vulcan in a few minutes"

    So unless they were going at transwarp it was "as fast as the plot requires"
  • born2bwild1born2bwild1 Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tacofangs wrote: »
    DS9's exterior is too big. This is a battle I waged when I first started on the project, but the bottom line is that "real" size is too small to have any significant gameplay around it (note, the 2800), and if it were that size in the normal social zone, it would drown in player ships. So, it's big.

    ESD is pretty close to correct for player ships. The problem is that the interior is really not a big space. If we pulled those invisible walls, and you flew in, you would be hitting your hull on everything, your camera would be pushed into first person view, and you really couldn't do anything in there. And that's if it were JUST you. I'm picturing 20-30 players trying to cram their ships into that space, and it just wouldn't work.

    Also - I always wondered how the Oddy or Sov or even the new Vesta fits inside ESD?

    at 750+ meters for the Oddy you would need what 1000+ meters of Manuvering room?

    What are the dimensions for ESD?
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    collegepark2151 wrote: »
    Just add some friendly fire... problem solved. ;)

    Can you imagine the junk flying around after a dustup in a confined space like that? Would probably take ESD out with it.


    Hmm, messy. Well, I guess we could turn that into a minigame flying Worker Bees. ;)
    blevok wrote: »
    that's a complete bs excuse thats been used too many times to make things in game redicularge. it's not like every single ship in orbit will try to get inside, and if they do, well that's just a reality of life in space. we are intelligent beings and we can handle a traffic jam if one ever arises. too many things are like this in sto. double-wide corridors, 12+ foot high celings, turbolifts that can fit 20 people. we don't need the devs to protect us from ourselves at the cost of some much needed immersion.

    Equating the large hallways of interior maps to the interior of the ESD exterior model is beyond ridiculous.
    trhrangerxml wrote: »
    As a Trek fan the inside and outside of DS9 has been the biggest bug I've had. I mean the battles in the series don't take place between the pylons, but because the station is so big everything is focused between them. Ships should be outside and around DS9, not on top, like we see when ever there is a major fleet stationed there in the series. Scale the station right and put the ships sitting outside the station somewhere, not on top of it, kills the mood big time.


    I recall a couple of times battles that did take place between the pylons. One being the Klingon attack on DS9 and the Defiant threading the needle around the docking pylons and the docking ring, chasing BoPs. And another fighting JemHadar Fighters.

    With a properly scaled DS9, it's not going to happen, but the currently scaled DS9 it is and to an extent mimicing those same episodes.
    mrj58 wrote: »
    This I agree with. In The Search For Spock with just the Enterprise and Excelsior it looked pretty crowded in Star Base 001. Sure, by the 24th century the Starbases were scaled up to reuse the ST III footage and model. But even then there wouldn't be much room for more than a couple Galaxy class ships in there. In STO with even bigger ships it wouldn't work at all.


    For that to happen the ESD model would have to be enlarged to 3x it's current size.
    born2bwild1 wrote: »
    Also - I always wondered how the Oddy or Sov or even the new Vesta fits inside ESD?

    at 750+ meters for the Oddy you would need what 1000+ meters of Manuvering room?


    What are the dimensions for ESD?

    In Star Trek III, ESD was said to be 3.8 km in diameter.

    Vesta 672 meters
    Sovereign 685m
    Regent ~750 m
    Odyessy ~900 m

    Remember the interior there are basically 8 ports, 2 at each pier. Which there are 4 piers. Ships enter through the space doors and go straight, then dock at the pier. So as long as there is turning room, there really wouldn't be any problems for the Odyssey.
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    azurianstar wrote: »

    In Star Trek III, ESD was said to be 3.8 km in diameter.

    Vesta 672 meters
    Sovereign 685m
    Regent ~750 m
    Odyessy ~900 m

    Remember the interior there are basically 8 ports, 2 at each pier. Which there are 4 piers. Ships enter through the space doors and go straight, then dock at the pier. So as long as there is turning room, there really wouldn't be any problems for the Odyssey.

    The width of the doors is the real limitation. A Galaxy (or Nebula) simply wouldn't fit through the opening, nor would an Odyssey.

    I'm not sure exactly how wide the doors open, but assuming STO's ESD is properly scaled (as it seems to be), a Sovereign or Vesta would *barely* fit.
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