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New Ranks for Starfleet Officers and Starfleet Marines
blacksheeple
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
At first excuse my Bad English i'am from Germany.
I would like it to see more Rank Insignias for Starfleet Officers.
For Exampel we Have Cadet Ranks but only on the Acadamy Uniform.
It where cool to add these to all Uniforms,also new Ranks were fine for exampel Fleet Captain and also i think adding Crewman and enlisted Personal Ranks.
Another wish adding somethink like this for a Starfleet Marine Corpse in STO,also with Crewman and enlisted Ranks (Maybe with a Z-Store Marines Uniform Pack like the Jupiter Pack)
http://shadowdragonfleet.webs.com/marine%20ranks%20for%20site.jpg
And at last please let use Choose what Style of Rank Insignia we use on every uniform (Think some Jupteruniforms will look nice with the Enterprise Mirror epaulettes)
I would like it to see more Rank Insignias for Starfleet Officers.
For Exampel we Have Cadet Ranks but only on the Acadamy Uniform.
It where cool to add these to all Uniforms,also new Ranks were fine for exampel Fleet Captain and also i think adding Crewman and enlisted Personal Ranks.
Another wish adding somethink like this for a Starfleet Marine Corpse in STO,also with Crewman and enlisted Ranks (Maybe with a Z-Store Marines Uniform Pack like the Jupiter Pack)
http://shadowdragonfleet.webs.com/marine%20ranks%20for%20site.jpg
And at last please let use Choose what Style of Rank Insignia we use on every uniform (Think some Jupteruniforms will look nice with the Enterprise Mirror epaulettes)
Post edited by blacksheeple on
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Comments
This. People need to get over the idea that Starfleet is a military organization just because its rank system mirrors the Navy. it is not, Gene Roddenberry even said Starfleet is an exploratory unit, not a Military Organization.
I do like the idea of enlisted ranks, but the problem is they are hard to create as there is no canon resources to back up what they would look like. Since to my best knowledge the only enlisted personnel ever mention/featured in Star Trek was Chief Miles O'Brien. (which they do have the Chief insignia)
Have you played any Episode Mission lately? I tried to "roleplay" a char and play all missions, really reading everything and taking my time. I stopped when I was told to kill all Klingons near the Federation ambassadors, just to "avoid beaming them up accidentally". STO's Starfleet has nothing to do with Gene Rodenberry's. Could have been so easy for them. Stun them on the Ground, disable ships instead of blowing everything up...
This is more like Star Trek Online - Mirror Universe. So yes, we need Marines...
Everything I have seen on ANY show, Starfleet is responsible for both space and planetary security.
They may not be a military in the traditional sense as they lack force projection, but they are certainly more than an 'exploratory group'.
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
Yeoman Janice Rand from TOS (later Master Chief Petty Officer Rand)
Petty Officer First Class Strath (ST:VI - The Undiscovered Country)
Petty Officer Zim Brott from DS9
Chief Petty Officer Sergey Rozhenko from TNG
All of the above are enlisted ranks (with O'Brien being Senior Chief Petty Officer) whether their rank pins were seen or not (as given in dialogue).
Personally, I'm not bothered by ranks below a toon's starting point (ensign) I really want higher ranks brought in to mix things up a bit.
Fleet Captain after Captain since we are likely to be highly decorated Captains given the shear number of battles we take part in.
Commodore after Fleet Captain as the first rank of line officer before the Amdiral ranks. I know Commodore fell out of use in Star Trek but there is no reason why, with Starfleet's swelling ranks, it would not be reintroduced.
I for one would not object to waiting two more ranks to be an Admiral... makes more sense than having a bunch of Admirals taking it to the Borg, Undine, Iconians, Remans, Breen, Romulans, True Way, Klingons, etc., etc., ad nauseum...
Just my 2 pence worth...
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Did Fleet Captain exist in ST?
We have Commodore, it's just called Rear Admiral Lower Half.
I agree though rename the lower half one Commodore and the upper half one Rear Admiral.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Starfleet Makes Zivil Jobs like exploration and it is the Military of the UFP.
M.A.C.O.'s are MArines Maybe yes Maybe no.
I think this is a Point of View.
Maybe MACO is a Stand alone Organisation or maybe there are a Elite Part of STarfleet Marine Corps.
In Roddenberrys Star trek yes there were no Place for Marines but i Think in STO (What is another Timeline/Reality) there will be ok.
But interessting nobody talks about the Last fact i have mention^^
"And at last please let use Choose what Style of Rank Insignia we use on every uniform (Think some Jupteruniforms will look nice with the Enterprise Mirror epaulettes)"
Yes Fleet Capatin and COmmodore are maybe the Same but i know a Rank Insigna for FLeet Captain that have simply 5 Pins
Most likely the rank was changed because the ranks where changed in the Navy. And as far as I know there is no "Fleet Captain" rank.
The ranks as I understand them are
Ensign
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
Rear Admiral Lower Half
Rear Admiral Upper Half
Vice Admiral
Admiral
Fleet Admiral
"Fleet captain is a rank of officer in naval services and space forces, most notably Federation Starfleet and the Star Navy of the Romulan Star Empire. Fleet captain is an honorary rank, a grade higher than a captain and a grade below a flag officer in most rank structures, although some organizations will refer to a captain as a fleet captain in title only, to show the said captain's seniority over other captains. In the 2250s, Garth of Izar was made a fleet captain, and Christopher Pike was promoted to fleet captain in 2264."
So Fleet Captain is a canon rank as per TOS episodes "The Menagerie" and "Whom Gods Destroy". Okay, so it mainly honorary but it could be made official...
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Well it's memory beta, so the only bit that is canon is that the Rank Fleet Captain was mentioned in TOS episodes "The Menagerie" and "Whom Gods Destroy", anything else is still non canon. I'm sure it says nothing about the ranks in those episodes other than their existence.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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That made me chuckle. :P
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Marines would be trained and equipped to deal with hostile individuals who have the intent of killing or capturing any Starfleet personal they encounter and be able to secure a beam-down landing zone so officers who have been sent to speak for the Federation can without being shot down each time by the enemy at every possible opportunity.
And that is my 2 cents.
I had a long rant about ranks and Starfleet Marines, but deleted it as it strayed off topic.
But I will say
1)One of Sisko's BOFFs was a Senior Chief I want one too.
2) Star Trek has never depicted Marines. MACOs are definitely not Marines. At least in the United States you could never mistake a Marine for anything else- and a Marine would take offense at being referred to anything other than Marine. Major Hayes refers to training at West Point- the oldest Army post in the United States and currently home to the US Military Academy- where Marines do not train. The ground troops in The Siege of AR-558 are specifically referred to by Starfleet ranks.
Warrent Officers.
http://wiki.starbase118.net/wiki/index.php?title=Starfleet_Rank_Index:_Enlisted#Warrant_Officer_Grades
Macos are marines (low rent ones)
The Royal marines were the first fully uniformed disciplined marine force
The USMC is not the only kind of Marine
Not necessarily. Until the 90s the Chinese Navy was considered part of the Army. The largest amphibious assault in world history was conducted by Allied troops including the US Army, which- at the time- had it's own boats and landing craft. The US Marines were busy elsewhere. The US participation in the invasion of Japan would have consisted of US Army divisions.
Major Hayes referred to training at an Army post, which would subtly identify them as soldiers. In addition, all of the named characters are referred to by ranks used by armies- they don't have any Lance Corporals or Gunnery Sergeants, ranks unique to marines.
Given that many marines have rich histories it is likely they would have also had distinctive uniform items like the EGA (US Marines) or the green beret (Royal Marines). The MACO insignia is more like an army unit patch- and positioned that way on the uniform.
True, the Royal Marines were the first military units to be identified as Marines- or originally a "Maritime Regiment Afoot." If you mean that not all Marines have the global reach and diverse capabilities of the US Marine Corps, but all are amphibious infantry, that's true.
Is still think MACOs are soldiers. But, more to the point, the OP suggested having the option of enlisted ranks and MACO ranks. I would agree, at least for our BOFFs.
One of Roddenberry's greatest mistakes was that he never really definitively laid out all the different parts of the "United Federation of Planets" and Starfleet. Please excuse me for not remembering exactly what episodes for the difference series, but there are references throughout the canon ST series/movies that somewhat fill in the blanks. For example Each Planet in the Federation can have it's own defense force, so if you look at the M.A.C.O. from that view point it gets alot easier to figure out.
Structure:
|----|
United Federation of Planets
| |
| |
M.A.C.O
|
| |
|
Starfleet
|
|
|
|
Civilian
1) United Federation of Planets: Top of the whole "Command" Chain
2) M.A.C.O: Earth's Defense Force. A separate organization within the Federation specific to Earth. deploy-able to Starfleet when the need arises, but ultimately answer to the Federation.
3)Starfleet: The exploration organization of Starfleet. Ultimately answer to the Federation Council.
4) Civilians: Anything from Cargo Vessels to Research facilities/vessels. For example the Raven that the Hanson's used to study the borg.
Some of this can actually be done with the rank insignia we already have in game. Crewman would simply be no pips, and we do have a Chief insignia (one "half" pip). We also have Lieutenant Junior Grade as well (one and a half pips).
Personally, I would like to see rank insignia for Commodore. It's canon, but hasn't been mentioned since TOS. I'm OK with the Rear Admiral Lower/Upper Half that we have, since that's what the U.S. Navy currently uses. I just read the Wikpedia article on Commodore, and it sounds to me like it's essentially equivalent to "Fleet Captain", more of a title than a rank.
Finally, it would be cool if we could choose where to display rank insignia -- sleeve braid (TOS), collar pips (TNG/DS9/VOY), chest pips (ENT, 2409), or epaulets (ENT mirror). Or any combination thereof.
Commodore, at least from a US Navy Perspective, IS Rear Admiral Lower Half. It was changed in the US Navy at 1985, I believe (assuming I am remembering the date correctly). the only reason I know of that it is never mentioned past TOS is, since the ranks reflected real life US Navy ranks, Starting with TNG on, the rank of Commodore was replaced with Rear Admiral Lower Half.
Bottomline, it is a defunt and old rank, it no longer exists. If you want to call your Rear Admiral Lower half a Commodore, that is your choice, I am not going to argue about that. But the rank insignia would be the same as it is essentially a one star Admiral.
And again, for the games story purposes, the rank would have been out of rotation for 150 to 200 years.
Hmm, now that's a thought. How about a title of "Commodore" that gets unlocked when you reach Rear Admiral Lower Half?
actually this is not true. I was in the Navy for 11 years and during my last few years my ship answered to a Commodore. His actual rank was Captain but because he had a minesweeper fleet answering to him he was titled Commodore. Minesweeper CO's were usually Commanders.
As it stands the Commodore is a positional title and no longer a rank.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You do realize that Enterprise pre-dates TOS. So most likely the writers used Commodore because it would make sense to have to in use in Starfleet up to past the TOS era.