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New STF Store - The Price we Pay
azurianstar
Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
I have to ask Cryptic, why the high costs with the STF Sets?
Granted the MK X Sets is a walk in the park and the MK XI Sets is a mile run, but the MK XI sets is the New York Marathon. Over 1000 Omega Marks per set, and the aforementioned 34000 Dilithum per set piece?
Did you not say this system supposed to help people who been struggling for months to get a MK12 set with the old STF system?
So now we (those have not completed our Elite sets), now have to do 20 Elite STF runs (getting optional every time) per set piece? Which means for a full ground or space set you need to do 60 Elite Runs? (Even more if for the MK12, the Adapted, and Space sets).
I just can't help but to think that this is a worse deal than the old way. We worked our buns off for 10 months with no luck, spend over a month grinding to Tier 5 Reputation and unlock it, then have to spend more months grinding to get the Set pieces we been after since Season 5 went live?
Is it me, or is a worse deal than what we were promised?
Granted the MK X Sets is a walk in the park and the MK XI Sets is a mile run, but the MK XI sets is the New York Marathon. Over 1000 Omega Marks per set, and the aforementioned 34000 Dilithum per set piece?
Did you not say this system supposed to help people who been struggling for months to get a MK12 set with the old STF system?
So now we (those have not completed our Elite sets), now have to do 20 Elite STF runs (getting optional every time) per set piece? Which means for a full ground or space set you need to do 60 Elite Runs? (Even more if for the MK12, the Adapted, and Space sets).
I just can't help but to think that this is a worse deal than the old way. We worked our buns off for 10 months with no luck, spend over a month grinding to Tier 5 Reputation and unlock it, then have to spend more months grinding to get the Set pieces we been after since Season 5 went live?
Is it me, or is a worse deal than what we were promised?
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It costs how much?? What that means for this particular player is that he wont be bothering with getting the sets
I dont do Elites, preferring normal runs but theres no way I'm grinding for that amount of points. It strikes me that its now harder for the casual player to get the high end gear.
I'm now questioning why I should bother grinding through the tiers if the costs for the "toys" is going to be so steep?
The "FUN" is rapidly dissapearing from this game and that saddens me.
They found a way to make it worse than the original random drop system.....
34000 dilithium is 5 days of quota
For a Mark XI I'd say those numbers could stand to come down ~30%, but I wouldn't bust out the torches and pitchforks over it.
I'm as casual in my playtime as can be. I don't even log in everyday except to do my Reputation stuff, but I've still saved up almost 200k dilithium, and I've got over 3000 Omega Marks (1500 from the conversion box). By the time I actually unlock T5 Omega, both of those numbers will be quite a bit higher, and that's just me playing for less than an hour a session, not even everyday.
I don't know what you're doing with your Dilithium, though. If you're dumping it all into your Fleet projects, then maybe you need to prioritize what you want first, or even budget your Dilithium to make sure you have enough for the gear you want while still contributing to your Fleet's stuff.
Agreed .
You can have a perfectly sensible discussion , explain to your fleet that this STF armor is important to you and you have wanted it for two damn years , so not participating in the Starbase construction for a few weeks (via dil contributions) won't mean the end of the Starbase .
Now calculate for a full set: ~3000 Marks (42 STF runs w/ optional every time) and 102000 Dilithium.
Now calculate for all the STF Mk12 sets:
- MACO / HG
- Omega
- Adapted
- MACO / HG Space Set
- Omega Space Set
Now that comes out to 15000 Marks (210 Elite STF Runs / with Optional every time) and 510000 Dilithium. Which translates to a years worth of grinding to get all 5 sets.So now could you imagine being one of those unfortunate souls who did STFs since December of 2011, and not a single Elite STF MK12 set piece, having to do all that work? So if you was in those shoes, wouldn't you think you got the short end of the stick, of something that was promised to you?
Are you calculating the ground sets at 34,000 Dilithium, too? Because the Ground gear is much, much cheaper than the Space gear -- closer to 9,000 Dilithium per piece.
you know whats funny, the old system was actually better - sure it took time for Proto's to drop, but they eventually did drop, and for FREE, yes folks for F.R.E.E.
No hoops to jump, no cost in EC or Dilithium, as a matter of fact Dilithium was earned at a rapid pace.
The true reason behind the new Rep system was not to benefit the player, thats a cover in itself, its true & intended target was the Dilithium gain, and to make a way for Dilithium to be a key component in equipment acquisition, of the Elite kind.
and remember, originally "they" were NOT going to give us some Dilithium return, "they" tossed that bone back in to calm the mobs, and at a reduce rate.
No offense to some folks here, but I find it very hard to believe that someone played through these STF's old school style 100x or more and never got a drop, thats complete and utter BS and smells like over Exaggeration.
I've played these STF time and time again on many of my toons and I did get a proto every so often - only drawback is that since the drops were character bound I could not trade them between toons that needed a component - but I did get something every 10th or 20th try.
What drove many insane was the pure repetitveness - simply put, STF's are not for everyone.
For honesty's sake, I would like to point out that it was unlikely that you got the collection of mk XII Maco and Omega ground and space sets in much less time, previously, particularly now you can grind for ground sets in space*. Also, if you divide that number by six, for the six STF's you had to run to get the prototype tech, you're up to 35 runs per tech unit; I understand some people's odds have been way worse than that.
Also: I don't consider myself a top player at all, but I generally manage 3 elite space stf's in an hour. At that rate, it's 70 hours. Even if you round it up to 100, that's not really a year, unless you're a really casual player.
Edit: I could go as far as to say that you get the adapted set as an extra, in the same amount of time you'd have spent before. Also: trust me, I do see how it is harsh on those that spent a lot of time in the previous system, and will have to again, now. But that's a matter of implementation, not necessarily a flaw in the system.
Not to be a meanie, here, but in the old system you wouldn't have gotten the mk XII sets either, if you don't do Elites, as you say. The mk X/XI sets are a fair bit cheaper.
*please do not rage about this here, as it is irrelevant to the topic, but it is part of the current system.
Ask yourself, how can something that drops for FREE, yes FREE, be unfair - eventually if you continued in your quest you would have found your set. At the same time the Dilithium return would have merit for you to run STF's through eternity.
Again 300X STF runs is utter BS, sry I do not believe you.
The new system is clear and concise. It gives an easy method for creating and rewarding additional content. Does it take more time and resources? Yes. But the old method of gearing out a character with full Mk XII in one or two weeks (sometimes days) with minimal effort was ridiculous.
The dilithium and mark requirements are not that significant. In fact, if you save your 8k a day from tier 1 to tier 5 you'll have near 300k dilithium, more than enough of both to buy what you want, assuming you don't want everything right away.
Starbase donations may take a back seat, but that's a reasonable expectation. If you want to race to tier 5 star bases, you'll need to make sacrifices. Otherwise just take your time, it's not going anywhere.
wrong.The old system had edc .with 120 edc you could get any mk XI set.
mk XII was for players who played many elite stfs.
Cant see whats so wrong to make a reward for those who play alot of stfs or any other mission or why everyone should have mk XII.
Wrong, anyone who wasn't terrible at the game could get Mk XII weapons in every slot within 2-3 days, plus a full Borg set within an afternoon. It was a complete joke. Gear acquisition was so trivial as to be meaningless. The only real piece of gear you needed to work for was the Maco/kdg shields to pair with the Borg deflector/engines.
anyone who played not anyone who was in game playing starbase.You probably played a week or two before s7 when they increased the chance to get a prototype shield or engine/etc.
Now you wait not play and even the most new player will have elite gear withotu knowing what strategies to use to finish a elite stf.
now there is absolutly no reason to play elite stfs unless you need some dlithium ,though you can get that through contraband missions.
As far as i'm concerned the passive skills are the only rewards of the Rep System, everything else is just a store unlock instead of an actual reward, i'm not even going to do any store unlock projects until i'm done with the Tier 5 XP grind.
The reason behind this? Cure Elite (space or Ground). Every time I used the public system, I never once won Cure. Never. There was always that one bugger who refused to listen, and went straight for the cubes. Sending the Warships after us in only a few minutes. In addition, the Warships could practically one-hit kill the Kang.
And the Ground one is almost impossible. The generators never stay active long enough for us to transition past that point. Plus the turrets that pop up EVERY time you have to re-activate the generators....Every match I have been in, everyone gets stuck there, and leaves the match
The ONLY times I have ever won Cure, was in a private Fleet match, where we ALL know what we are doing. Even so, every time I ran Cure that way, I never once got the tech needed.
So, if Cryptic were to bring back the old drop system, but make the tech random no matter what map it is, and I will be happy with that.
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they already did that and peopel grind ISE because its easy.I said many times that they should remove all stfs except ISE from the pve menu.That way people will find it easier and rename the join button to "grind" "or grind with your team"
I'm not bashing folks for liking the new system, thats not my point, my point is that players can merely BUY the Gear that you once had to earn.
Elite Game Gear is not meant to drop frequently - look at games like Tera or WoW - In Tera only one person in a server earned the top gear over there, it was a badge of honor to defeat one of the toughest bosses in the game.
Unforunately; STO do not have tough bosses, they have CHEAP bosses.
and mattjohnsonva, didn't mean to offend - but I still disagree, eventually you would have earned your set.
if there was anyone that has reason to ***** and whine, it would be me. This is because I do have 40+ toons to deal with, and out of the 40+ toons at least 9 are at VA status and they have at least two parts of one set and one part of another. So under the old system I would be in the right to ***** and complain.
But here is the thing: Under the old system it took time but you would eventually earn your Mk XII, and if you suck at playing, tough luck - seriously; stay out of the Big Leagues if you cannot handle the pressure. I do not say that with an air of arrogance, but out of common sense.
Mk XII belong in the Elite STF which is considered to be end game dungeon like most MMO have. To be honest STO is far more forgiving in its end game dungeon approach than your typical MMO.
What Cryptic should have done:
Increase the drop rate of the Mk XII Gear slightly and made it a random drop per team, not per player - That way players could roll Need, Greed, or Pass. I know some of you would see opportunity of abuse, but, this is how its done on a typical end game dungeon in all other MMO's.
Note on the NEW system:
I'm not saying its a horrible and terrible system, do not confuse what I am saying, and in all honesty it is now easier to get my Mk XII for my 40+ toons though its going to virtually cost me an arm & a leg. Trust me the new system is NOT friendly towards players with many alts, at least from an ingame economic view.
I would love to have the old STF system back, but lets be realisitc, the new one is here to stay.
When comparing gear systems, Guild Wars 2 rewards one gear token to everyone finishing a dungeon, every time. Just saying.
I haven't played the game yet, so I can't judge the quality, but in GW1, all (max-level) gear was equally powerful. Identical, in stats, even. Including the story line quest rewards. GW2 apparently retained that philosophy, because they were happy with the system.
Gear systems vary according to design philosophies, and are received differently according to player mindsets.
In this game that wouldn't really work, I suppose, because there is less focus on costumes and titles. I do think that the MMO industry, as a whole, should spend some time thinking about what people enjoy, in terms of endgame, and focus on those elements. I think, for me, that enjoyable teamwork-oriented missions are more rewarding than gear- and systemgrind, and confess that I like KASE and CSE more than ISE exactly for that reason.
On the dilithium costs involved: I've actually been producing more dilithium than before, with handing in spare NP's (even got 14 as a bonus drop yesterday) and some marks. I figured I'd get more NP's and marks by the time I get to T4/5, and be better off getting dil/zen, to prepare for the winter festivity sale I'm expecting ^^
I like it when a game has goals that actually require effort rather than just hand it to you. And instead of having the nightmare of RNG the system is actually quite fair -- unlike, as others have mentioned, in many other games.
High-end gear shouldn't be the standard that everyone can be assumed to have, it should be something that represents a degree of dedication from those who attain it.
If anything the reputation system already favours casual players rather heavily since you can't speed projects along nor can any amount of playing surpass the daily refining limit.
if you get to a point where you have excess marks and BNP's then you can trade them in for easy dilithium. its very possible to get around 4000 dilithium in a single run if you are lucky, and 2000 if you are unlucky.
once people hit rank 5 and unlock all the stuff they want the whole system turns into endless dilithium. even the rank up is 960 every 20 hours.
people with minimal effort will be unlocking xii gear in a month or two and then will be in a position to get huge amounts of dilithium. this is compared to the old system of possibly never getting the stuff you want no matter how much you played.
That stopped being true in wow in 2006. When burning crusade came out you got damn good epics by losing your 5 arena games a week, sure they took that away the same time they put in daily quests that awarded justice points (which you used to buy raid level gear). In wrath of the lich king you could buy raid level crafted gear and got valor points (used for buying raid level gear) from running outdated content. Same model in cataclysm. In mists of pandaria you get valor points from doing single player daily quests (before the quests ((theoretically)) required a group for raid currency) to buy your raid gear.
Cant speak for tera though.
This is a good system, 1 elite stf a day is enough to do my projects to tier up with a little left over. It puts a MUCH needed EC sink into the game and it gives me a clear path to success with none of the BS surrounding rare drops (which is the very reason blizzard put those raid/dungeon currencies into the game ive seen people farm molten core every week for 7 years and still not get thunderfury ). Sure EVENTUALLY you'll get all your rare loot, same way that you'll eventually win the lottery if you play the same numbers every week. Doesnt mean that its worth it.
Let the stupid suffer
Thats why mk XI stuffs is more than enough for you.
Have you ever compared the mk XI and mk XII versions of these sets, side by side?
Mk XI is enough for everybody. The difference is negligible.
While nice to get the mk XII sets, in terms of achievement, the biggest boon you are likely to get from obtaining it is the additional playtime and, consequently, experience and knowhow.
That is not to say that mk XII isn't a valid goal or target, mind you. In terms of performance gain it's just overrated; a person that knows how to play well will be just as effective using the mk XI versions.
Of course but you see it doesnt matter mk XII is just +1 ,they wanted to buy it without playing and now every person will have mk XII stuffs.There is no reason to make anyone be a elite player and play or improve their builds and strategy for elite stfs (ground and space).You will see players walking around in mk XII maco or omega armor thinking they know how to play ground stfs....when all they have to do is play once with 4 good players and get the accolade .
There is no difference between a team of 5 players that can end IGE with over 3 minutes left for the optional and a team of 5 players who rage quit at the second room....both will have mk XII stuffs.
So tacking on exorpitant time and resource costs makes it meaningful? It's incredibly bad design, especially doing that to a system and items that have been obtainable that way for years.
Players were screwed. And this kind of defense of a shallow grind mechanic is hollow.