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devorasx
Member Posts: 693
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
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the #1 thing that lacks counter play is the
GOD
DAMN
CARRIER PETS
It should be required viewing for game developers.
Unfortunately, I don't feel that concept fits into PWE's F2P model. They seem to think (and correctly so, apparently) that they will sell more virtual merchandise if that merchandise makes you feel more powerful. If it leaves your opponent with multiple options to counter, then their goal of making you feel all Kirk-ee was not accomplished.
The best part is, the stuff that pisses us off usually has no effect or viable usage anywhere other than PvP (snb doffs, I'm looking at you). You can't TRIBBLE off an NPC, nor do you need a doff to strip an NPC's single buff.
The power creep in this game is increasing, and I fear for the viability of any PvP system in the future. There is simply too much going on to be prepared for everything. Even with a full team by your side. Hard counters are great, so are tactical and strategic counters. Some things just leave you with none... again, SNB doffs, timestop+Tric Mines, timestop period (I remember a dev once saying that any ability that allowed you to take your hands off the keyboard, when used on you, was bad and had no place in STO. This was used as justification for the PSW stun nerf), etc...
If the devs used the POV of Caster and Recipient when designing powers we might have something a lot more fun than we've got. Unfortunately, STO devs don't PvP and therefore have no understanding of the recipients point of view (with 1 exception, and he tries, but I feel his hands are tied behind his back... a lot).
Which reminds me, this video reminds me of you Devoras. You should get more than the one character to experience counter play at its fullest extent.
I have 5 different kinds of tacticals characters. All different ships, all different specs.
I have 3 different kinds of science characters. All different ships, all different specs.
I have 2 different kinds of engineer characters. Different class of ships, and different specs.
I have 3 prototypes, (like in the video), and am developing them for different roles.
Counter play isn't something offered by the game itself, but also by the player's effort to experience and create it.
(gosh Hank now I gotta edit my post)
But yes, SN Doffs notably, Tric mines, and a few other stuff, threaten counter play. For the most part it's still afloat...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
When did they start allowing you to change toons in the middle of a match? I think you may have missed the point.
Yes, most of us have multiple builds to accomplish different things. I keep 2 copies of TBR handy in the event of Siphon Drones. Does the fact that TBR is an effective counter for me indicate that Siphon Drones have good counter play? No, in fact, it's horrible. You have to dedicate at least 1 player per siphon carrier to the task of neutralizing the siphons. That doesn't increase your options, it decreases them. I do not enjoy the task, though there is some satisfaction involved in neutering someone trying to exploit an OP pet (same with danubes).
How exactly do SNB doffs give the recipient more options to counter? Frequently, the only solution is to use it yourself to level the playing field. Again, that is fewer options, not more.
Timestop, again, no counters whatsoever. Tactically, you can maintain distance from your teammates to prevent the whole team from being trapped and tric'd, but that is again, only 1 option, not several.
The BOFF abilities in this game were designed with counterplay in mind. The "cashgrab" mentality currently ruling development decisions does not take counterplay into consideration, at all. If the only options you are left with are stay out of range/arc or join the party and do it too, then they have failed.
Alpha Strikes are a good example of where counterplay is good in this game (barring other outside influences). When a BOP decloaks for an alpha strike, you can pop TSS+TT, FBP, RSP, Subspace Jump, Turn to spread the damage over multiple facings, and so on... that is multiple options to counter. That is counterplay.
It's not so much a case that there is a lack of counter play as it is a case that no, you can't have a counter for everything you may possibly face.
So does that instead raise the question not of counter play - but how devastating it can be to find yourself with paper instead of rock when facing scissors?
It's a gamble - you bring A, and you're fine as long as they bring B but not C. Likewise, they're gambling in bringing B that you're not going to bring A - or - they're gambling that you're bringing A to deal with B when they're bringing C.
One could say - it's a team game - maybe folks need to sacrifice a little - step away from the min/max specializations that they've done to look at building things that in Match 1 might not do them as good as it does in Match 2... but you never know what you're going to be facing, so it's better to risk being mediocre than to risk the need to come to the forums to complain?
Where is the counterplay in what he describes? He had no options but to sit there spamming distribute shields until it was over. Can anyone else think of something he could have done? That is what is wrong with the game. And yes, there are some BOFF abilities and Weapons procs in that list, but the addition of the universal console abilities is what took the fun out of the situation. Even with a supportive team, you're gonna run out of cleanses eventually.
/unistall?
lol. good cross thread post to quote btw. this is a good example
amazing video. Thanks for the link devoras
Originally this was likely supposed to promote cross-healing and teamplay. This time may have long since passed since it appears that (as others have noted) even a tight clockwork team will struggle to support the sheer amount of STO's cripples, consoles and other various and sundry.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Counterplay is inconsequential to pve. Pve is their main priority. I really think its as simple as that.
Yes, there are things like the snb doff that is obviously targeted at pvp'ers. This does not mean that it's designed to make pvp better though. It's simply a dip into our wallets, nothing more.
Hmm... Based on the video information..
I'd say that the answer is both Yes and know..
Here's why..
When you compare just Bridge officer Abilities, alot of them can be countered in one form or fashion. How ever most of the countering seems to be relying mostly on 4 Powers: Tactical Team, Engineering Team, Science Team, and Hazard emitters. At least where Disables, and most Debuffs are concerned.
When you start looking at Weapons, C-store Ship based Console powers, Special Promotional ship Console Powers, Lobi Store based gear, or Reputation based Gear, it's when things start to slowly shift towards No.
While some abilities from those specialized abilities can be countered, it is again the problem that it is only being countered by one ability. And while Skills can/do reduce either ability duration, or strength, they aren't really countering the ability, just reducing how strong it is supposed to be while in PVP or if a PVE enemy deploys said power.
How ever, that also brings up the fact that Ships are moderately customizable by way of both Bridge officer Powers, and Gear based powers that can allow you to adapt and counter many different situations. And a team of players that works well together can do the same as well. Which is why it's suggested to have more then just One build for each ship.
This is how ever when we then look at the Klingon Side vs the Federation side. And one power, while is fun for one side to use, still doesn't quite have a good balanced counter..
Cloaking Devices.
While yes, a Science class can allow for detection of Cloaked ship, it is still limited by how close the ships get to the person Sensor Scanning. And while even adding skills like Sensors, or the C-store ship console that allows for a Sensor Grid to spawn up and boost the teams sensor scanning powers. There really is no true counter to a cloaked ship if they stay out side of Scanning range and decide to "Cloak Grief" the enemy. Which is not fun since the PVP Maps are not designed to give that advantage any kind of change to that problem that causes many Federation players to not want to join the PVP Que against klingons.
And while many people will claim it's the Pets from carriers, that is not really true. Sure Siphon Carriers are annoying to fight, but there are counters to that type of set up. Simply load up enough AOE, and Carriers become eaiser to face. Proving that Carriers do have Counter points for those who don't believe it.
And finally, we come to one of the newer quirks that got added into the game, Doffs. Some Doffs either already attach themselves to powers that have counter points themselves and there by aren't so difficult to deal with, while others, like the dreaded and discussed SNB Doffs are trickier. And while it can take in game wealth and time to find those little gems, it is yet another possible No for if STO has a true counter point stratigy.
So in conclusion, While STO may have many counter points for alot of their Cool and shiny ability, weither they come from BOFF powers, Consoles, Weapons, or other toys, they don't have enough counter points for all of them. And all it takes is the right player, or team to begin to abuse those holes to make the game less fun and perhaps even prove why there is so little PVP Action beyond just the lack of attention that has been given to STO for the last 2+ years.
Thanks for reading, if you did.. And have fun babababababaing badguys.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I can understand where you guys are coming from with pvp balance etc. Yet the problem is balance will never exist, every player has a different idea on balance.
Every skill in this game has a counter or a way around it except for 1 doff skill. The doff I am talking about is the snb doff, as far as i know there is no skill or ressist to buff whipe. Yes it is annoying when you get sci spammed with skills like viral matrix, scramble sensors, universal console skills etc. etc. but the countermeasures for those skills are there. do you really expect to always prevail in pvp with your build without changing it ? pvp is all about adapting, changing, countering and strategies. This game has a nice feature
The biggest threats in pvp are not the games tools but the players/teams ingenuity.
Yes I believe PvP needs a lot of work in this game but not the socalled balance, im talking about content. more maps, ranking system, leagues, tournements, rep system, seperate skill and item stats (pvp stats and pve stats).
BUT first of all and I think most will agree with me on this, STO needs fixing, big time. I would rather have this game running smoothly and to 95% bug free before preasuring cryptic into adding more pvp content. Please fix the game (maybe get a new engine :P) first. You can even take down the server for a week or 2 to fix the game, I dont think anyone would mind, as long as the game runs smoothly afterwards
Happy Holidays
Looney@galilleos FED (Tac/Escort)
LostNodule@galilleos FED (Sci/Wells/Healer)
GalilleoS@galilleos FED (Tac/Escort)
Alora@galilleos KDF (Tac/BoP)
1) Weapon type: DHC>>>>>>>all else, at least since people started bitchin about tric mines. (ps. i m a sci/sci you get rid of your DHC and use beams, i ll stop using mines)
2) Range: the few BO skills that take range into account, and the dmg values for cannon vs beam does lacks variety and purpose.
Just take the vid, we have a P2W spotter, the nebula with TDG, do we have anything to effectively spot with it? No. TBR1 is a way better spotter.
if you use ST to clear SNB your resists are still gone, there is no hard counter to SNB, its the reason of being of that class. the SNB doff carries on with this logic. Not saying its a good idea, but Geckos myth that there are always counters, is just that .... a myth.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
In my imaginative terms, all Science characters are the spotters.
The whole idea of the "Spotter" is to devalue the enemy's defensive status. It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway.
Sub nucleonic beam, sensor scan, the two most vital tools for that "Spotter". The DHC, in this instance are the guys sitting at the back waiting to strike. In junction to this, the engineer or healers, support the spotters until the time is right for them to make their move.
The process as per the arrows in the video:
Science --> Engineer/healer --> Tactical
Spot ---> Support --> Attack
In terms of how the SN Doffs work, as well as the Trics, these two abilities just as used as example do threaten counter play.
Here's how I see it:
Tric --> Tric --> Tric
SN Doff --> Attack --> SN Doff --> Attack
Ultimately taking away from the counter play model we just recognized in this video.
Counter play is very much intact in this game, but it is fading. We're still able to coordinate, discuss tactics, rather than sit back and "snipe" with no discussion.
It's for this reason that actual counter play is very much still intact. But, they need to listen to us when we tell them how things effect it. This new term is interesting enough to say the least. However, we've been talking about it all along, but never/hardly ever used it on here.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Some times, personally, I feel that STO could learn alot from Dungeons and Dragons.
Many Spells and effects have "saving throws" where you cast the effect on a target, and that target gets a save. If they fail, they get effected, if they pass they nullify or reduce the effect. Other factors can come into play, but that is the basics.
Dispel Magic, Dungeon and Dragon's version of SNB, is set up so that if you aren't high enough level, you won't be able to remove any effects. And even if you are high enough level there's still the randomness of the Dice roll. Add in the fact that there is a cap to how much of your level you get to use towards the Dispel Magic Check.
How ever in STO, SNB always guarentees a strip of all buffs on a target. It also increases all used power cooldowns. The cool down increase is clearable via ST. But nothing protects against the SNB Strip. Same for SNB Doffs. How ever they did at least try to add a way to prevent Multiple SNB Strips repeatedly from the same target in a short amount of time. How ever honestly, I feel they should have given either Science Team, or some other power or skill a way to resist the SNB Strip Effect, or even be able to shield your self from it for Science Teams short buff duration.
How ever, even if they gave Science Team the ability to shield you from an SNB strip, that is just one more useful counter Science team Gets, instead of perhaps giving it to something else that is less used. Perhaps Polarize Hull, Aux to sif, Aux to Damp, or maybe even Emergency Power to Aux some how.
This isn't an Anti-SNB post either. I'm not against SNB. But I do agree that SNB, Cloaking, and many other effects do need better Counters then are in the game right now. And some counters also need to be made sure they work properly. Especially if they are skill resists ment to counter something that only a skill counters. (Example: Power Drains)
And of course this doesn't even go into Ground PVP. Not because I'm not wholy Familar with ground, but because it's more of a Shooter style of game play, and I've always disliked ground because of how fast an easily kills can be attained by Tacs and how hard it is to defend against them with anything seemingly short of a high healing Sci + Medic Kit.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Yup we get it.
We get it you left this game for that game.
I don't get is why you're on here still posting about MWO lol. That's like no different than me going on MWO forums posting about STO while not playing the game. It's weird.
But you know as they say, keep on keeping on.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
NO idea what you are trying to tell me whats the difference between Tric -> tric-> tric and
DHC-> dhc-> APA, GDF, DHC??
its a weapon.
but this is slightly off topic I think. genuinely don't get your point.
I could get on board for most of this, but the sheer size of the task this would involve will never be undertaken by Cryptic. they'd rather release a new Trek based title i guess.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I'll try to explain it on different terms. But if you're strictly on the premise on hating this game, then there's not one example or explanation I can provide to you then. As you are already resolved on that idea as it is.
Tric mine--> Tric mine--> Tric mine
Is basically the absence of "spotting" or debuffing an enemy's defense. Basically due to the fact there's an overwhelming amount of damage being dealt that simply cannot be healed or escaped from due to disable effects as well. The absence of counter play is in effect on these terms.
The difference between DHC, DHC, APA, GDF, TFLEET, DHC, is that it can be out healed, and defended against. You need spotters to effectively make this more effective against more hardened defense. Example, extends, double extends, TSS, continued heals, these will all be at disposal to maintain a target from falling victim to those sets of abilities.
Where as a tricobalt bomber fest entails the droping of multiple tricobalts and their overwhelming damage overcome every heal and any heal available on the team or person. Average tricobalt mine does 35k, bleeds through shields and shields also don't absorb nearly as much as they should.
The effective range requirement is 10km in this game. It is the standard requirement for player vs player. Pet vs Player it is unlimited, as some pets can follow targets indefinitely. However, I believe you may have taken the example in the video to a literal stance, and it may seem as though you would like to see players be able to do damage from 10km out. You really don't need that kind of distance to incur some kind of counter play action in a video game, that's a conditional tactic to a particular game. As is sub nucleonic beam to this game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Rosav posts about STO's awesome pvp in the mechwarrior forums though, i dont see whats so weird.
Greets, MT
****ˏˍˍˍˍˍ,^.,
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I'm not hating at all, but trics can be shot down, so saying that there are no counters is just wrong. Yes 5players can tric you to death, but they can also CRF you to death, again not sure what the point is here. In the first case the counter prevents the dmg from occuring, in the second you have to mitigate or heal the dmg after the fact. Resists and healing also come in play with trics.
What i am trying to say with the whole range thing, is that if you look at the examples in the video, you can see that ranged interaction is a crucial component to interesting counterplay. Just like getting close with a shotgun in sto has its fun moments (if we ignore the cloak plague in ground combat for a second). This type of interaction is largely absent from space. Yes mini tries to drop his trics from up close, and escorts should stay closer then 10k for optimal damage, but the range variables in these interaction are extremely limited. which is part of the reason why so many space weapons are not useful, although our options are more limited then on ground. I have less turnrate aka i m more vulnerable via a singe facing, and i can't mount the most dmg weapons at the same time. There is no counterplay escorts turn better, and have better weapons. So unlike in ground where we move more or less equally well, getting close, running away, and having players specialize for one kind of interaction just doesn happen.
What is the fun counterplay in trying to outturn an escort in a cruiser? What is the fun in not having DHC?
From your comments, it seems that bringin AoE guy, is bad, since Trics are bad. Again AoE vs Single Target entails some counterplay elements. I ll leave the debate open as to how much fun it is, or how effective it is against pet spam and so on.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
The point is, not as easily. In fact, its a breeze for the tric bombers whereas the CRF guys need to keep a 45 on you, and deal with coordinating a sub nuke. A tric bombing team does not. It's tric mine after tric mine, nothing else. It's 1 dimensional, it works, it kills counterplay. CRF needs coordination. I have a video of 2 pugs fighting 5 pugs, one had a wells class the other did not, 1 died more often than the other. They scored 9-3 before our three man intervened and finished it. Something wrong with the picture? I think so. They just dropped mines, made no coordination effort, as easily as it was they scored 9-3 and we watched them do it. I'll post the video sometime this weekend.
I agree, pugs do not communicate. Our premade does. But this mainly has to do with popularity of PvP in general, as well as the knowledge of coordinated play being spread around. Cryptic/PWE does not have a cheat sheet or anything to provide this kind of aid, we have the hilbertguide, organized pvp, team speaks, and people who give good advice. However, when this advice is given, it spreads, and counter play becomes more and more visible in team play.
I lack necessary knowledge about ground to be able to comment on this.
It's futile to try and outrun an escort, it's game dynamics. Heavy tank vs light tank. Its obvious which one goes faster.
Not having cannons is not a disadvantage, it's a specific role your ship is going to play on the battlefield. If everything had cannons it would be boring. So the challenges of being a healer, are very high and large as well as a debuffer. Timers, anticipation, all come into account, the challenges of keeping someone alive, the challenges of keeping someone debuffed, it's all very fun. This is merely a question of preference, and I can tell you I have more fun in exotic builds than strictly DHC stuff.
No. I am not against AOE. In case you haven't watched any of our TRH videos, you see me TBRing, Torp Spreading, Sensor scanning with Dr. Lecter. I believe in it.
Trics are also not as easy as you think to shoot down. With FAW not accurate at all and broken (I concur with Hilbert on this), it limits your "shooting" ability to bring trics down, as you're limited to 45 degree angle weapons. The fact every tric has mask energy signature, also adds to the pain staking nature of finding them. Are you hunting trics or players at that point? The tricobalts have become more lethal than players, the player just lays them out effortlessly and waits for them to impact you. There truly is not comparison to what kind of counter play is employed on a team using trics, and one that isn't.
Tric mine team:
Player A: Dropping mines -Attacker
Player B: Ok -Spotter?
That's it! Maybe a viral, maybe a tractor beam, but that's about it.
Standard team:
Player A: I'm repulsing target -Spotter
Player B: Sub nuke ready -Spotter
Player C: Alpha ready -Attacker
Player A: Alpha out. Nuke the target -Spotter
Player B: Target's nuked -Spotter
Player C: Target is down -Attacker
Done.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Ranges could look like this:
Turret 3km
DHC 4km
DC 6km
Cannon 7km
Dual Beam Bank 8km
Single Beam Array 10km
Only instead of making it where the damage is less effective out side those ranges, perhaps they can't fire at all until they are with in those ranges? How ever, if this were implimented, then the effectiveness of the weapons would have to start at that range. And this might cause there to be an even further imbalance between weapons at the suggested ranges. (Maybe I'm playing too much MWO...where each weapon has a Minium effective Fireing Range, and a Maximium useful fireing range..
As far as Counter point for Energy weapons currently, And same for Kinetic Damage weapons, Armors and Heals/resists help to reduce the incoming damage. How ever most of that has to be considered ahead of time. But I also don't believe the game was developed with Multiple players fireing at each other in mind which explains the Yo-yo effect of healing right now and why Damage and Healing seems out of wack.
In PVE, if you know what enemy Group your facing, even if they bring superior damage, you still know what kind of damage they are using before you go into the Map. So you can bring the amount of Resists and heals you need. PVP How ever, you don't know what you might run against, so you almost have to bring extra consoles and hope your skill points are good enough to give you the defense you need when you add in those consoles to help defend against the enemy fire your recieving.
Currently, Tricobalt Mine has become the Flavor of the Month, due to the factor of Dispersal Pattern Beta's interraction with Tricobalt Mines. Where if one Crits, all of the mines deployed with the Pattern will automatically Crit. And Cryptic knows of this effect but have not been able to divise a way to fix it. How ever, Tricobalt Mines are counterable if you carry Boffs with the skills avaliable to allow you to counter them.
Cruisers can supply CScatter volley (if cannon boats), Torpedo Spread, Fire at will, And Eject Warp Plasma. (And if using the Aux to Bat + Technician x2 Build, Eject Warp Plasma is nearly perma)
Science Vessels can bring Similar Weapon based attacks as the Cruisers, as well as Gravity Well, Tykens' Rift, Photonic Shockwave I believe even Scramble Sensors helps because the Mines will now go after Friendly and foe alike.
Escorts can bring Cannon Scatter Volley, Torpedo Spread, Faw (If they have enough beams or are built in that fashion). Escorts can also better make use of Deployment Patterns and bring their own Mines.
Ships with Hanger Bays, or Carriers can also bring their own Pets which also helps counter mines because there are now more targets that mines will interact with instead of just the players.
And of course all ships can also bring their own Mines, Tricobalt or other wise.
And lastly Science officer players can use Photonic Fleet, which has the same effect as Carriers or Hanger bay ships of providing Pets to give the Mines something else to interract with.
It's just a matter of players seeing these situations happening, and either having the counter already avaliable, or bringing Boffs or other powers to help negate these effects.
Of course all of this is with out adding in Cryptic Store toys, Ship exclusive effects, or Lobi Store goodies. And yes, some effects improve the ability to kill with Tric mines (I'm looking at you Temporal Science Vessel/Temporal Destroyer + Consoles) But that is more of a showing that Cryptic, when they release these powerful ships with these cool to use effects don't always consider what kind of a Counter there should be, and how they effect other tools in the game. Which, as I said before, is why while Cryptic does provide counters for most of the more basic aspects of the game, they don't provide one for some of the money based effects that you have to grind Dilithium for, shell out the all mighty dollar to aquire, or hope some one has placed what you want on the Exchange (if it can be done that way).
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
We're completely talking past each other so I ll leave this at that. Just one thing, keeping something in 45 arc, is not difficult. What mini does takes skill, just as being very good at maximising DHC dps. Slaughtering pugs requires 0 skill in either variety.
Your premade doesn't enter into it. It is about range and movement based on your weapons. WoT has it, STO ground has it, DnD has it, the video has it in each example, STO space doesn't.
s.a.
There are two different things in this part, you keep mixing up in your arguments.
1) turnrate and its impact on weapon choice. Being forced to use singe-beams offers you one and only one counterplay mode, you are forced to broadside. The "being forced" boart is cruicial in both sentences. You might say that this is interesting enough counterplayability, i think it is not. It also means, that Sing-cannons, dual cannons, and dual beams offer very little compared to Single Beams, and DHC. What about combing different types? Again, i think that the variation in game play, and counterplay(!), are negliable. Does it really spice things up that much more if you fly 3xDHC + 1xDBB, or going from beam boat to 4xDBB =4xTurrets? How about the counters to this?Imv, it matters very little.
2) The challenges of healer and debuffer, have nothing to do with weapon types. Also for counterplay to come into the discussion we need to think about how that varies. Is it really that different of an experience, if your enemies healer it using a torp boat, instead of a beam boat. Just by virtue of the healers weapons choice?
you mean the one you posted after starting this reply?
This thread is not about tric's. Just one thing if you blame trics at least be precise. You complain about Mine pattern buffed trics from tacs in escorts. If you want to do a proper comparison you should compare that to attack pattern buffed DHC from tacs in escorts (even when complaining about SNB that seems to be your baseline).
The problem is not the mine, but its interaction with mine patterns and tac buffs. Or more general, the imbalance of TAC buffs compared to the other classes. Again this was about counterplay, not about pax latest, policing STO pvp thread of the week.
Lol where is the COUNTERPLAY.This just lays out, rather pedantically, what your TS looks like.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
No I read Web's post. I'm on topic with him. I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguing, or try to discredit my claim on how this game does in fact have counter play. I stated this doesn't have to have the literal application of other games in order for "counter play" to be associated to it. It employs it's own form of counter play.
Keeping someone in your 45 degrees is difficult. You can brag about how easy it is for you. It is difficult for Yoda and even the most skilled players especially with all that is going on. No need to come on here and say it isn't, it was made that way to benefit those that actually skillfully pull it off. Trics do not require this skill. Mini complained when he lost to every bug in a 1v1 in the recent weeks. He also discredited them in the process, your attitude mirrors his at this point.
Yes it does. You take literal examples from other games and try to apply them to this game, where the dynamics are completely different.
1) Being in a light tank forces you to play the role it employs. Limited damage. Do you see the parallel here Havam? I doubt it, because your attitude has shown you really cannot acknowledge things right in front of you due the fact
A) You really are disgruntled with the game and post;
2) Yes they do. You can use disruptors and compliment your debuffing abilities. You can run a sci scourt and achieve this. Or even a kinetic chroniton build to debuff motion? I'm curious to ask how many characters exactly do you have? Have you explored all of your options and variations? I don't see someone with that much background in the game making these kinds of assessments on variations.
There is no damage comparison to DHC to Tric mine damage. None whatsoever.
Let's get some math in here:
Let's say a DHC does 6k damage (a very generous amount)x4 =24k damage per the duration of the buff w/alpha, APO3, GDF, Tfleet, CRF2
Let's say the turrets in the back do 1.2k damage (also very generous amount)x3 =3.6k damage per the duration of the buff w/alpha, APO3, GDF, Tfleet, CRF2
Total DPS is around 28k. This does not even equate to a SINGLE tric mine explosion by a relatively newer player averaging at 35k per mine!
A tricobalt mine is with only APO3 is 30k per explosion per mine with dispersal pattern 1. That is already 60k damage with AOE and disable percs. It masks its energy signature, and does not need to be aimed.
Audacious remark to say the least, especially when said "pedantically". I made a good willed conviction to answer your question. Nevertheless, I'll take this as a positive sentiment although you delivered it with negative attitude. You have a problem with me, the game, and/or letting go of your tricobalt mines or all of it. For this I don't think this discussion should even continue due the fact you're biased on that premise and are too hostile. Especially on your last post. I on the other hand could very well use the tric mines, and claim it as comparable to DHC damage too, on a Sci Sci lol. Your peers have said otherwise, there's nothing else to be said on this matter.
The game has counter play, but various things like trics do threaten it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
those range numbers are pretty severe though, maybe something more like this
Turret 8km
DHC 7km
DC 9km
Cannon 10km
Dual Beam Bank 11km
Single Beam Array 12km
Maybe you should ask some of the ground pounders whether these weapons are really balanced against each other.
Had to fix that for you..
While STO has some weapons that are more affective at specific ranges, they still do damage regardless once you are with in 10km.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku