I just would like to say that Cryptic do listen and what we need is provide them with constructive feedback, not shout and whine and threaten and badger!
Learn to provide solutions instead of just saying: ITS BROKEN! FIX IT!!! Need to tell the devs how exactly you want it fixed.
ST crowd supposed to be more mature, objective and coherent, i'm sure many of you arent 16 year olds.
So as Dan aptly put it: learn some manners!
But I was born in a BARN!
Sheesh
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
It's interesting the comments on customer service and restaurants. Let me see...
a. Customer is brought food and notices there are some problems; customer points out problems politely and asks them to be fixed.
b. Food is brought out again. Problems have not been addressed. Customer is upset.
c. Customer once again points out problems with the food. Servers say nothing about problems with the food. Customer wonders why and what they are doing about it.
d. Customer is REALLY upset. Screams at servers. Servers finally notice customer is unhappy. Change the food, but not entirely to the customer's satisfaction.
What does customer do?
1. Learn some manners.
2. Eat it and shut up!
3. Get up and take their business and money elsewhere.
Does that about sum the situation up? I love analogies...
Interestingly depending on the amount of fuss you made at point c, point d could get you kicked out the restaurant by security and a ban from there in the future.
Be glad you're commenting in an environment where getting upset doesn't result in a permanent ban from the service.
Interestingly depending on the amount of fuss you made at point c, point d could get you kicked out the restaurant by security and a ban from there in the future.
Be glad you're commenting in an environment where getting upset doesn't result in a permanent ban from the service.
Yuppers... loooooooved telling customers to get lost when I worked at this computer store. They would spout off like they could affect our ability to get customers even though we were the best priced and gave the best service in the twin county area.
Best part is we'd still have their computer in the back so we'd demand payment while telling them to get out of the store hahaha.
People are amazing here, just like this other dude in the next most currently active thread rudely demanding to have is account un-silenced immediately.
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Don't blame your birthright, instead embrace the opportunity of life.
Many of us wasn't born with a silver spoon and 90% of the world's most successful people originated from the humblest of backgrounds.
Um dude, it was like a joke, and, um, stuff.
For the most part I would like to think I am one of the more level headed posters on these forums. Sure I have my moments but I strive to stay constructive in my criticisms.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
For the most part I would like to think I am one of the more level headed posters on these forums. Sure I have my moments but I strive to stay constructive in my criticisms.
I just would like to say that Cryptic do listen and what we need is provide them with constructive feedback, not shout and whine and threaten and badger!
So as Dan aptly put it: learn some manners!
Some people think Dan is a hypocrite. I've seen (and created) countless threads with with solutions to various issues. It is extremely rare that I ever see one of the developers comment in those threads to praise / dismiss the idea that has been put forward. Most (if not all) of the time, the issues / suggestions are ignored.
They make changes to the game (such as Season 7's Dilithium and Doff pricing) without any explanation except that they want more people to grind dilithium; that's great, except dilithium pricing has gone through the roof which in turn has hurt starbase and outpost projects (something they're supposedly trying to encourage people to stick with), they removed the Duty Officer Report Dilithium Assignment (the reward was 1440 dilithium); they claim they wish people to refine as much dilithium as possible, yet they take dilithium projects away (logic fails). I have made several posts in relation to a duty officer exchange price compromise ~ have any of them been acknowledged? No, they haven't.
Cryptic seems to only listen when they have something to gain from it. People want a new ship, Cryptic get to work because they can charge 2500zen per ship on, which makes them a lot of money. If people want reduced dilithium costs, or more KDF content, Cryptic doesn't see the funds feedback there, so such requests are dropped / ignored.
It's your typical business, there's no getting away from that.
You are right; actions do speak louder than words. And all of the changes they are making over the next couple of patches are actions, not words.
The only changes they are making are the ones they can get away with when still getting good returns (for themselves). The Duty Officer Pricing (I go back to it again) ~ Loads of people have been asking after that, and asking for a change / price reduction. Unless I've missed it, the entire area is always overlooked or ignored. Not once have I seen a developer comment on the Duty Officer Pricing, not once.
Have you even read any of those threads by veteran players ? They not only described the problems ( even before they went live ) in great detail- complete with the math - but also described exactly what the effect would be of some of the plans . They outlined what needed to be done - also in great detail and with the math -and were subsequently completely ignored (threads were even removed or moved from main discussion).
Maybe that's the problem? It isn't the developers at all, it's all the fault of the Moderators; moving and deleting threads as they see fit. :rolleyes: If threads get deleted, do the developers see them?
When you complain at Red Lobster, they don't boot you out. They buy you dessert. I'm highly skeptical of people who think that kind of approach is wrong. Yes, it gets abused. You budget around it getting abused though. Better to reward a few customers who are jerks than to let one legitimate gripe fester.
Hm maybe a good S7 tribble testing reward would make everyone happy and forget the annoying issues and constant need to complain about new features. I mean something significant, not just a tribble and a doff you have no use for.
Ya know all silliness aside, I do agree that people should allways use manners but to claim they lisen well not till people joined togeather and raised there voices the constructive feed back was given during tribble about how disapointed people where with them nerfing the amount of dilithium so they still went ahead and did what they wanted to and took the dilithium off compleatly in stfs, so what do they realy think the peoples reaction was gonna be, yes they put some of it back, but stfs are waaayyyy down, and from what i was told the number of people what are on the stf elite channel is wayyy down also,and lests be honest the only reason they even lisen then was cause of the amount of people that stoped playing and they can say what they want but i wager they didnt sell as many vestas as they thought they where, i personly know of several people who changed there minds about buying it because of all this, i myself who would had jumped on the steam ship for 10 bucks it changed my mind so i gave the 10 to trek radio and stoked radio. So hopefully this will teach them to lisen to the comunity more, or we will vote more with our wallets, which in time will only hurt the game we love.
Hm maybe a good S7 tribble testing reward would make everyone happy and forget the annoying issues and constant need to complain about new features. I mean something significant, not just a tribble and a doff you have no use for.
Aaaahhhh , so you want something fancy for all the 100 ppl who were on Tribble do you ?
Think that'll wash away the stench of S.7 for ... everybody ... the whole playerbase ??
The same playerbase that was subjected to Cryptic's little rat experiment (take the cheese from here , put it there , feed them less , tell them it's more ...) .
Wow ... , just wow ... .
I'd love to hand you a few cans of aerosol so you can get to work on that stench , but in the mean while I'm also itching to congratulate Dan on managing to marginalize one more section of the playerbase -- the Tribble testers , with "there were only a hundred or so players on Tribble" .
I can only hope that next Season they will get less players on Tribble and even less the one after that .
A company that has this little respect for it's playerbase and it's testers does not deserve neither .
Aaaahhhh , so you want something fancy for all the 100 ppl who were on Tribble do you ?
Think that'll wash away the stench of S.7 for ... everybody ... the whole playerbase ??
The same playerbase that was subjected to Cryptic's little rat experiment (take the cheese from here , put it there , feed them less , tell them it's more ...) .
Wow ... , just wow ... .
I'd love to hand you a few cans of aerosol so you can get to work on that stench , but in the mean while I'm also itching to congratulate Dan on managing to marginalize one more section of the playerbase -- the Tribble testers , with "there were only a hundred or so players on Tribble" .
I can only hope that next Season they will get less players on Tribble and even less the one after that .
A company that has this little respect for it's playerbase and it's testers does not deserve neither .
How is Dan marginalizing the Tribble testers with that statement, if anything it's an explanation of why Season 7 came out as bad as it did, not because Cryptic didn't give it a thorough test in a live-like enviroment but because they couldn't with just 100 people actually testing.
How about that disconnect bug that plauged pretty much everyone for the first few hours of season 7's launch, if more people had logged on then they may have caught that.
How about the Dilithium rates and the fact that removing the dilithium from STFs massively lowered the amount in the market, yes they had us telling us that it would as people wouldn't play the new fleet actions but with actual testers proving this then we may have had Dilithium rewards on STFs from the season launch rather than a weak later.
Dan's statement wasn't an insult to the 100 people who played on test, it was meant as an insult to the thousands who didn't and still complained about the state Season 7 launched in.
Wow. I wasn't aware of that blog post. Dan Stahl (and the OP) needs to learn some manners.
Simpletons need to learn one simple truth: if you're going to insist on politeness (I wouldn't, a fallacious argument - especially deliberately so - harms constructive discussion much more than "offensive words"), you need to understand it's not only about those "bad, bad words" your mummy told you about; it's about respect, so checking your patronising attitude at the door would be a grand idea.
But hey, it's easier to cry "I'm offended" than to think, so nothing will change.
I just would like to say that Cryptic do listen and what we need is provide them with constructive feedback, not shout and whine and threaten and badger!
Learn to provide solutions instead of just saying: ITS BROKEN! FIX IT!!! Need to tell the devs how exactly you want it fixed.
ST crowd supposed to be more mature, objective and coherent, i'm sure many of you arent 16 year olds.
So as Dan aptly put it: learn some manners!
Hey Dan, don't charge USD for a half-assed effort and folks will be more polite.
Besides, It's broken, fix it seems pretty direct to me. Pretty sure that telling you HOW to fix it isn't my job.
Like the mission that won't accept boffs...it's broken. fix it.
Like the cloak bug...it's broken. fix it.
Like the incomplete Klingon faction..it's broken. fix it.
.
You can call legitimate customer complaints whining and badgering all day if you want, just don't be suprised when they stop complaining because theyre gone.
Hey Dan, don't charge USD for a half-assed effort and folks will be more polite.
Besides, It's broken, fix it seems pretty direct to me. Pretty sure that telling you HOW to fix it isn't my job.
Like the mission that won't accept boffs...it's broken. fix it.
Like the cloak bug...it's broken. fix it.
Like the incomplete Klingon faction..it's broken. fix it.
.
You can call legitimate customer complaints whining and badgering all day if you want, just don't be suprised when they stop complaining because theyre gone.
4 points
1. They don't charge you to play the game, they charge you for optional extras that you can, with enough effort, get for free.
2. Which mission are you talking about, there's hundreds of missions in the game and if no one has reported it bugged yet then he can't tell which you're on about.
3. What issue with cloaks are you talking about exactly, again, more information=faster fix.
4. The Klingon faction is incomplete yes, but it's not broken, you can still reach the level cap and be just as effective as a Federation player, if not more.
1. They don't charge you to play the game, they charge you for optional extras that you can, with enough effort, get for free.
2. Which mission are you talking about, there's hundreds of missions in the game and if no one has reported it bugged yet then he can't tell which you're on about.
3. What issue with cloaks are you talking about exactly, again, more information=faster fix.
4. The Klingon faction is incomplete yes, but it's not broken, you can still reach the level cap and be just as effective as a Federation player, if not more.
1. If you don't think thier goal is to charge for stuff, you're just uninformed...
2. Gee, which mission could I be talking about? Hmmm, maybe the only one that takes boffs as an input. Or they could read thier own patch notes, idk, seem really obvious to me.
3. If you don't know what the de-cloak bug is, just stop speaking on game mechanics...
4. Really? Having to play the other faction for 20 levels and then ditching everything youve completed during that time only to start over with another tutorial and down a character slot is "just as effective" to you? Sorry not to me it isn't.
How is Dan marginalizing the Tribble testers with that statement, if anything it's an explanation of why Season 7 came out as bad as it did, not because Cryptic didn't give it a thorough test in a live-like enviroment but because they couldn't with just 100 people actually testing.
He maginalized them because there were certainly way more then a hundred on tribble. out of our fleet alone there were 20-30 on tribble, the various private channels I have subscribed had a healthy part of the population on tribble at all times, way more then "just a hundred or so" definitely.
Short, He lied about the tribble tester population. I assume he does so becaues that way he could dismiss the torrent of criticism that populated the tribble test forum. Turns out the very points of criticism were spot on.
How about that disconnect bug that plauged pretty much everyone for the first few hours of season 7's launch, if more people had logged on then they may have caught that.
This problem didn't exist on tribble, I know it I was on it
How about the Dilithium rates and the fact that removing the dilithium from STFs massively lowered the amount in the market, yes they had us telling us that it would as people wouldn't play the new fleet actions but with actual testers proving this then we may have had Dilithium rewards on STFs from the season launch rather than a weak later.
Parts of the criticism were exactly about these problems from the start. people were giving detailed and precise feedback how this will unfold on live. and behold, it did as they have forseen. It was ignored. Its Cryptics fault, for they were told what would happen. They choose to ignore it and in some instances outright lied about it ( no dilithium in STF is just a Bug, don't worry we will add it before it goes live... yeah, right. listening to feeedback my TRIBBLE)
Dan's statement wasn't an insult to the 100 people who played on test, it was meant as an insult to the thousands who didn't and still complained about the state Season 7 launched in.
Dan lies to cover his TRIBBLE because THEY screwed up and puts the blame on the players.
Be specific in your requests: I want rep timers reduced from 40 hrs to 20 hrs, I want dilithium requirements reduced 30% or removed completely... and justify why you want it so.
This I can agree with. Sometimes, you have to live your life assuming that the genies are evil and will corrupt your wish based on a slip of the tongue. That may seem cynical to some but, hey, I think it's pretty optimistic to assume the world is full of genies who might grant you wishes.
By and large, I've learned that most of my disappointments come from a lack of critical reading and the times I've been spared disappointment when others around me rage come from reading critically.
My double edged caveat with a company like Cryptic is a bit of advice to fellow forum posters: Never assume that Cryptic or other posters are lying if there's an alternative assumption. Because there's no use having a dialogue with someone you can't trust to be truthful. But do assume that people are unreliable, fall short, are in error, and have little control over themselves or what they do when they let you down. And focus on guiding them to have more control or be prepared to cut them off if they're fatally incompetent in your eyes.
And by "cut them off" I mean hit the "ignore" button or uninstall the game or take a break. Lingering around a room after an argument that wasn't resolved means you haven't put it behind you.
And I know I could stand to benefit from my own advice as much as anyone.
Comments
But I was born in a BARN!
Sheesh
Interestingly depending on the amount of fuss you made at point c, point d could get you kicked out the restaurant by security and a ban from there in the future.
Be glad you're commenting in an environment where getting upset doesn't result in a permanent ban from the service.
Don't blame your birthright, instead embrace the opportunity of life.
Many of us wasn't born with a silver spoon and 90% of the world's most successful people originated from the humblest of backgrounds.
Yuppers... loooooooved telling customers to get lost when I worked at this computer store. They would spout off like they could affect our ability to get customers even though we were the best priced and gave the best service in the twin county area.
Best part is we'd still have their computer in the back so we'd demand payment while telling them to get out of the store hahaha.
People are amazing here, just like this other dude in the next most currently active thread rudely demanding to have is account un-silenced immediately.
Um dude, it was like a joke, and, um, stuff.
For the most part I would like to think I am one of the more level headed posters on these forums. Sure I have my moments but I strive to stay constructive in my criticisms.
Yeah I know you meant it to be a joke.
I just can't resist
Whoa and it went over my head. Nice! LOL
They make changes to the game (such as Season 7's Dilithium and Doff pricing) without any explanation except that they want more people to grind dilithium; that's great, except dilithium pricing has gone through the roof which in turn has hurt starbase and outpost projects (something they're supposedly trying to encourage people to stick with), they removed the Duty Officer Report Dilithium Assignment (the reward was 1440 dilithium); they claim they wish people to refine as much dilithium as possible, yet they take dilithium projects away (logic fails). I have made several posts in relation to a duty officer exchange price compromise ~ have any of them been acknowledged? No, they haven't.
Cryptic seems to only listen when they have something to gain from it. People want a new ship, Cryptic get to work because they can charge 2500zen per ship on, which makes them a lot of money. If people want reduced dilithium costs, or more KDF content, Cryptic doesn't see the funds feedback there, so such requests are dropped / ignored.
It's your typical business, there's no getting away from that.
The only changes they are making are the ones they can get away with when still getting good returns (for themselves). The Duty Officer Pricing (I go back to it again) ~ Loads of people have been asking after that, and asking for a change / price reduction. Unless I've missed it, the entire area is always overlooked or ignored. Not once have I seen a developer comment on the Duty Officer Pricing, not once.
Maybe that's the problem? It isn't the developers at all, it's all the fault of the Moderators; moving and deleting threads as they see fit. :rolleyes: If threads get deleted, do the developers see them?
Hm maybe a good S7 tribble testing reward would make everyone happy and forget the annoying issues and constant need to complain about new features. I mean something significant, not just a tribble and a doff you have no use for.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Aaaahhhh , so you want something fancy for all the 100 ppl who were on Tribble do you ?
Think that'll wash away the stench of S.7 for ... everybody ... the whole playerbase ??
The same playerbase that was subjected to Cryptic's little rat experiment (take the cheese from here , put it there , feed them less , tell them it's more ...) .
Wow ... , just wow ... .
I'd love to hand you a few cans of aerosol so you can get to work on that stench , but in the mean while I'm also itching to congratulate Dan on managing to marginalize one more section of the playerbase -- the Tribble testers , with "there were only a hundred or so players on Tribble" .
I can only hope that next Season they will get less players on Tribble and even less the one after that .
A company that has this little respect for it's playerbase and it's testers does not deserve neither .
How is Dan marginalizing the Tribble testers with that statement, if anything it's an explanation of why Season 7 came out as bad as it did, not because Cryptic didn't give it a thorough test in a live-like enviroment but because they couldn't with just 100 people actually testing.
How about that disconnect bug that plauged pretty much everyone for the first few hours of season 7's launch, if more people had logged on then they may have caught that.
How about the Dilithium rates and the fact that removing the dilithium from STFs massively lowered the amount in the market, yes they had us telling us that it would as people wouldn't play the new fleet actions but with actual testers proving this then we may have had Dilithium rewards on STFs from the season launch rather than a weak later.
Dan's statement wasn't an insult to the 100 people who played on test, it was meant as an insult to the thousands who didn't and still complained about the state Season 7 launched in.
Simpletons need to learn one simple truth: if you're going to insist on politeness (I wouldn't, a fallacious argument - especially deliberately so - harms constructive discussion much more than "offensive words"), you need to understand it's not only about those "bad, bad words" your mummy told you about; it's about respect, so checking your patronising attitude at the door would be a grand idea.
But hey, it's easier to cry "I'm offended" than to think, so nothing will change.
Hey Dan, don't charge USD for a half-assed effort and folks will be more polite.
Besides, It's broken, fix it seems pretty direct to me. Pretty sure that telling you HOW to fix it isn't my job.
Like the mission that won't accept boffs...it's broken. fix it.
Like the cloak bug...it's broken. fix it.
Like the incomplete Klingon faction..it's broken. fix it.
.
You can call legitimate customer complaints whining and badgering all day if you want, just don't be suprised when they stop complaining because theyre gone.
4 points
1. They don't charge you to play the game, they charge you for optional extras that you can, with enough effort, get for free.
2. Which mission are you talking about, there's hundreds of missions in the game and if no one has reported it bugged yet then he can't tell which you're on about.
3. What issue with cloaks are you talking about exactly, again, more information=faster fix.
4. The Klingon faction is incomplete yes, but it's not broken, you can still reach the level cap and be just as effective as a Federation player, if not more.
1. If you don't think thier goal is to charge for stuff, you're just uninformed...
2. Gee, which mission could I be talking about? Hmmm, maybe the only one that takes boffs as an input. Or they could read thier own patch notes, idk, seem really obvious to me.
3. If you don't know what the de-cloak bug is, just stop speaking on game mechanics...
4. Really? Having to play the other faction for 20 levels and then ditching everything youve completed during that time only to start over with another tutorial and down a character slot is "just as effective" to you? Sorry not to me it isn't.
He maginalized them because there were certainly way more then a hundred on tribble. out of our fleet alone there were 20-30 on tribble, the various private channels I have subscribed had a healthy part of the population on tribble at all times, way more then "just a hundred or so" definitely.
Short, He lied about the tribble tester population. I assume he does so becaues that way he could dismiss the torrent of criticism that populated the tribble test forum. Turns out the very points of criticism were spot on.
This problem didn't exist on tribble, I know it I was on it
Parts of the criticism were exactly about these problems from the start. people were giving detailed and precise feedback how this will unfold on live. and behold, it did as they have forseen. It was ignored. Its Cryptics fault, for they were told what would happen. They choose to ignore it and in some instances outright lied about it ( no dilithium in STF is just a Bug, don't worry we will add it before it goes live... yeah, right. listening to feeedback my TRIBBLE)
Dan lies to cover his TRIBBLE because THEY screwed up and puts the blame on the players.
This I can agree with. Sometimes, you have to live your life assuming that the genies are evil and will corrupt your wish based on a slip of the tongue. That may seem cynical to some but, hey, I think it's pretty optimistic to assume the world is full of genies who might grant you wishes.
By and large, I've learned that most of my disappointments come from a lack of critical reading and the times I've been spared disappointment when others around me rage come from reading critically.
My double edged caveat with a company like Cryptic is a bit of advice to fellow forum posters: Never assume that Cryptic or other posters are lying if there's an alternative assumption. Because there's no use having a dialogue with someone you can't trust to be truthful. But do assume that people are unreliable, fall short, are in error, and have little control over themselves or what they do when they let you down. And focus on guiding them to have more control or be prepared to cut them off if they're fatally incompetent in your eyes.
And by "cut them off" I mean hit the "ignore" button or uninstall the game or take a break. Lingering around a room after an argument that wasn't resolved means you haven't put it behind you.
And I know I could stand to benefit from my own advice as much as anyone.