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To some of you, learn some manners!
avarseir
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I just would like to say that Cryptic do listen and what we need is provide them with constructive feedback, not shout and whine and threaten and badger!
Learn to provide solutions instead of just saying: ITS BROKEN! FIX IT!!! Need to tell the devs how exactly you want it fixed.
ST crowd supposed to be more mature, objective and coherent, i'm sure many of you arent 16 year olds.
So as Dan aptly put it: learn some manners!
Learn to provide solutions instead of just saying: ITS BROKEN! FIX IT!!! Need to tell the devs how exactly you want it fixed.
ST crowd supposed to be more mature, objective and coherent, i'm sure many of you arent 16 year olds.
So as Dan aptly put it: learn some manners!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by avarseir on
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Comments
{UFP}Thomas45 - Thomas Nixon U.S.S. Majesty Unbound
It was not 'petty' in any sort of way, it was a completely true statement that needed to be said and he said it in a very polite way. If anyone took offence to it then they must know that they are the ones that it was aimed at for acting childish on an internet forum about a game.
{UFP}Thomas45 - Thomas Nixon U.S.S. Majesty Unbound
It's just a case of successfully conveying emotion 101
Got the job done didn't it
While we may not agree with what the Devs are doing there is no reason to be in anyway offensive or hostile towards them. Verbal attacks are totally uncalled for.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
I get what you're saying, I think. Things can get a bit too heated at times here and on TTS. But I'm also not sure how what you're saying (or what Dan said) is productive either, or how highlighting Dan's comment is productive. Do you think someone will learn manners because you tell them to?
I see a couple of issues behind a lot of the blowups.
1) Lack of clarity on objectives. Even in Dan's recent updates, he gives us incomplete or partial explanations for things, which don't add up from a surface reading. Cryptic is more generous than almost any other publisher on the what's of what they do but can be very stingy on the why's and dismissive of contrary viewpoints until you wave numbers in their face, repeatedly, for months.
2) Lack of a retail service sensibility. As companies like Cryptic/PWE assume more retail control and involvement beyond standard product authorship/development, I think there are lessons to be learned from how retail and service employees operate. While we get a lot of insight into things, a downside can be that the communication we get isn't filtered or framed the way a retail service experience is.
Take some of Gozer, Geko, or Borticus' comments. They're very real and frank. I think they're great people but at the same time, I think a lot of customers would reasonably flip their gourd if a Wal-Mart or Applebee's manager talked the way some of the devs do. And, yes, artists and engineers traditionally do get more frank but this is also a retail operation and retail operations are not being dumb by filtering their comments and flattering their customers. As a retail service provider, you have to assume the best of your customers and trust them and budget ways of making them happy even when it's their fault, even when they curse you out, pretty much for anything shy of something you'd need to call the cops over.
And incorporating in monetization necessitates having more of a retail service approach, a polished service model that is engineered to soothe and satisfy irrate customers.
When you complain at Red Lobster, they don't boot you out. They buy you dessert. I'm highly skeptical of people who think that kind of approach is wrong. Yes, it gets abused. You budget around it getting abused though. Better to reward a few customers who are jerks than to let one legitimate gripe fester. The goal of being in business is not to dispense justice or to operate fairly but to use happiness and desire to coax sales.
Some ppl need to learn not to lie first Mr. Stahl ... .
... but it could be that we're asking too much on that front ...
Oh, I forgot, Lying is corporate culture there, so we are pretty safe methinks...
I've been around since these forums began, what's been posted in the last week is TAME, compared to some of the Vitriol from back then.
(Hell, I've been on the web since 1997... I've seen Flame Wars that make STO look like an Etiquette School.)
Granted, that doesn't make it a proper thing to do in either case, but the STO forums certainly don't have a monopoly on rudeness.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
You are right; actions do speak louder than words. And all of the changes they are making over the next couple of patches are actions, not words.
So, you feel like a moral authority do you? Careful with that high horse, you might fall off.
This times infinity.
I've been playing since a couple days after launch. (Technically I was "in" the closed beta, but I didn't have a computer that could run it at the time, so I missed out.) I was here back when there was no endgame, and I was here when the endgame consisted solely of the old STFs and the Borg set. I started leveling my first KDF back when the KDF had literally nothing to do besides empire defense and PvP. I lived through the content drought. I saw lots of promises made, and very few kept. So, I mean, I totally get being used to disappointment from this game, and therefore not wanting to trust Cryptic, and I can understand the feeling on some folks' part that any improvements to the game are too little, too late.
But for the most part, Season 7 has been extremely encouraging to me. New Romulus is awesome, as are the story instances attached to it. The rep system means I'll actually be able to get some decent equipment without having to literally devote my life to STFs (or just get extremely lucky). Endgame is now quite robust, with lots to do and lots to work towards. And best of all, not only is Cryptic clearly listening, but they are making quick and sensible changes based on our feedback! In short, STO is finally becoming the game it should have been all along, and I'm gladder than ever that I've stuck with it. And while I still have complaints, I'm mostly thrilled with the direction the game is going, and I personally am willing to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt now that they've shown us how much they care.
While I agree with your kind post for the most part, I feel compelled to point out the OP is not asking people to be nice, he is ordering them to do so.
It is also somewhat different from dstahl wrote in his blog.
He said matter-of-factly that some people should learn some manners, he did not order them to do so either.
Thus IMO the OP is not leading by example (being nice) but instead demonstrates the forum equivalent of someone standing on a soap box shouting orders (at least whenever I see exclamation marks in a title it feels like that to me).:(
This as well.
There has been a rift. I think some player criticism has worn on devs (who work LONG hours and do work hard) whereas for me as a forum poster, I see the average level of vitriol subsiding. I've perhaps become desensitized to the vitriol (as I suspect many early Cryptic defenders who are users have) whereas I feel like the internal dev culture somehow develops an increasing sensitivity to it.
This is why, I think, they considered Borticus "Tron" when he was hired on and why I think you'd see Jeremy the podcaster disagree with Borticus the dev. Jeremy the podcaster was often more negative about Cryptic than I was whereas Borticus the dev -- who DOES have clear frustrations and issues he clearly works hard to resolve -- has shifted who his "us" group is and the "us vs. them" in the community has probably grown while the vitriol level itself has probably done nothing but improve since launch.
I was reading Leonard Mladinov's new book and he surveys a lot of how being in a group affects people. Sometimes, even IF the group is shallow and people are aware of the group. There was one study done where people were told they were being identified as group members with strangers and then asked to play a game which involved distributing money. And people disproportionately awarded their group members (who they'd never met or spoken with) even knowing that the group had no weight on anything and even when it meant destroying resources rather than sharing them.
And reminding people of one group affiliation vs. another can affect spending habits and test scores. I'll avoid getting into the specific ethnic/sociological examples but if you take someone who is both Scottish (stereotypically thrifty) and a generous philanthropist, you can actually influence his behavior by getting him to identify with one group versus the other. How much he gives might be dictated by things like the decor in the room and which identity you trigger.
The magician Derren Brown uses this as an element of his tricks all the time. If he wants someone to be emotionally unstable or needy or imaginative, he might give them milk and cookies and lace his comments with allusions to childhood. He manipulates people all the time by taking a look at the social affiliations someone has and then playing up the one he wants the victim of his tricks to identify with. Granted, he's also using tricky video editing, staged situations, and traditional stage magic as the core of his presentation style but he masks all that by playing to certain beliefs.
For example, I've seen him do standard card tricks but he profiles his victims based on whether they believe in UFOs, astrology, neurolinguistic programming, magic, or even fairly mainstream psychology and uses the tactic that gets his volunteer into the state of mind he wants them. In fact, it's a big part of how he works an audience. He speaks in very erudite terms about sociology and clinical psychology and then frequently does very old magic tricks that involve neither but which rely on conditioning his audience to feel like part of a smart in-group.
I think forum posters and devs are two groups that can both be guilty of that kind of thinking, easily misdirected by group affiliation.
We're paying customers, sooooo.....
To Cryptic. It's Broken. FIX IT!!
It's not exactly a glowingly positive article.
Either way, it is just as "noobish" or naive(again, take your pic) of him to think that people will do what he tells them to without having any way for him to enforce his orders.
And how do any of those actions indicate the profused 'love for pvp' that they have been spouting over the last 2.5 years, all the while pvp is neglected and made worse in terms of balance by every new patch pushed live?
Not even a frikkin map in 2.5 years people.
Loving something doesn't mean you support it well.
Jack Emmert loves Fleet Actions and it's taken years to really incentivize them. I know a number of Cryptic employees pretty much only PvP in STO or only play Klingons.
They don't choose what to develop based on love.
If they did, I suspect this game would be a lot different and probably would have launched with Borg and Romulan factions taking priority over the Federation. And then Klingons. And maybe Federation eventually.
And I don't think they love story in the same way that we do, on the whole. And that a pure "dev love" game, decided democratically, probably would have been a big PvP sandbox with no story.
Bingo. I think the way many players acted toward the release of Season 7 was indeed childish. I was glad he brought that up. Respect is a two way street.
TRIBBLE off enough of your player base and watch your lockbox and zen store sales plummet as your player base go's elsewhere..........lets hope its a lesson they learn well for any upcoming seasons.
Funnily enough its history repeating itself, Activision were on the receiving end last time way back in 2003 when Trek fans simply stop buying all the **** they pumped out under the franchise name......the Tv and movie franchise were also on the receving end of unhappy Trek fans with Nemesis bombing at the box office and Enterprise hemorrhaging views to such a extent it was cancelled after 3 years.
That's all well and good to address half the point.
But if they 'love pvp' and 'want pvp to be great' so much, then why do they break it more with every patch?
Also, the devs of the game have demonstrated time and again that they have little to no clue how pvp works (or even in some cases basic game mechanics), beyond how the queue drags players into a map. So I highly doubt that many of them pvp on an even semi-regular basis, since Heretic left.
im sorry but this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
system Lord Baal is dead
Yea pluse i guess he forgot about him cussing on the forums about a year ago or so, so Dan need to also realise no body it perfect