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STF Reputation... YAWN!!!!
tequilla56
Member Posts: 45 Arc User
Yeah ok so another complaint bout season 7 I guess... (just glad I didnt invest US$200 for life time subscription recently).
Ok yeah fine, I like the principle.. But the pure Maths just dont add up...
Perhaps some clarity from someone as to what extra options may be available at Tier 2+ Reputation for STF's.
I have spent MOST of my playing time enjoying the STF system. Always on the hunt for the elusive Prototype Equipment Drops to obtain all the Maco/Omega XII sets. No complaints there when I dont get much.. It is (ok WAS) an ok way to score some Dilithium and EC (selling useless consoles and Engines etc).
So Yes I do like the fact that now I will be able to purchase them.
BUT
With the Maths done (as an average - with the information at hand).. It now means that I will need to grind these missions EVERY DAY for approximately 2 YEARS before being able to enjoy excellent benefits.
Heck it will be about a week before I get any kind of reward at all, and about a month before I can even access whatever has been exchanged for all my accumulated EDC's and Prototype Salvage.
Timers, I can live with... Having to provide more stuff to advance, ok fair enough.. But why make the rewards so low and the required reputation so high... Could we not get say 500 Reputation for completeing the Elite Special Task force portion (for completeing 5 STF missions) instead of a measly 5...
Definately not on a balanced scale, and in the long term dont think it is going to win favours with anyone.
If they want people to cancel their subscriptions and switch to F2P thus eventually killing the game entirely by going out of business, this is a great way to do it.
Ok yeah fine, I like the principle.. But the pure Maths just dont add up...
Perhaps some clarity from someone as to what extra options may be available at Tier 2+ Reputation for STF's.
I have spent MOST of my playing time enjoying the STF system. Always on the hunt for the elusive Prototype Equipment Drops to obtain all the Maco/Omega XII sets. No complaints there when I dont get much.. It is (ok WAS) an ok way to score some Dilithium and EC (selling useless consoles and Engines etc).
So Yes I do like the fact that now I will be able to purchase them.
BUT
With the Maths done (as an average - with the information at hand).. It now means that I will need to grind these missions EVERY DAY for approximately 2 YEARS before being able to enjoy excellent benefits.
Heck it will be about a week before I get any kind of reward at all, and about a month before I can even access whatever has been exchanged for all my accumulated EDC's and Prototype Salvage.
Timers, I can live with... Having to provide more stuff to advance, ok fair enough.. But why make the rewards so low and the required reputation so high... Could we not get say 500 Reputation for completeing the Elite Special Task force portion (for completeing 5 STF missions) instead of a measly 5...
Definately not on a balanced scale, and in the long term dont think it is going to win favours with anyone.
If they want people to cancel their subscriptions and switch to F2P thus eventually killing the game entirely by going out of business, this is a great way to do it.
Post edited by tequilla56 on
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Show your math, please.
Prior to S7 a lot of players complained about grinding for months without seeing prototype salvage or tech. One member of my fleet, a lifetimer since day one, was grinding STFs since he hit VA 2 months after launch, and has NEVER managed to win an Mk XII piece.
The randomness was simply too much, and to him the ability to buy the stuff after working at it for a while is the best thing to happen since his first Veteran award.
Is it too much grind for you (and some others)? Maybe. But you can't please everyone, and only time will tell if these decisions pleased the most (or most important) sections of the playerbase.
All they needed to do was implement an alternative method to attain MK XII pieces by grinding and the problem would have been solved.
I think that the Omega reputation system could have existed with the old STF loot system. Omega marks could have been added to the EDC loot drop, just the captain abilities alone would have been enough motivation.
1) File Situation Report on Status of the Borg Threat= 2000 rxp
2) Submit Research Materials to Omega = 800 rxp
These missions take 40 hours, with no cooldown. ie you can run them both at the same time every ~2 days. That's 71 days of play. Assuming you do no other missions ( I believe the gear missions are what the third slot is for), and there are no other missions that would give you more rxp (there's at least one- Omega Task Force - Claim Tier I Reputation for 5,000 rxp.)
That's 5 minutes (maybe ten if you have to hit a vendor) every 2 days for a little over 2 months. Compare that to the weeks, even months it took us previously- without any guarantee of ever seeing a piece of gear.
Edited because I can't multiply.
Perhaps, and I do share your opinion for now, (though I've yet to be affected by it one way or the other) but there is such a thing as having too many options.
Perhaps keeping both systems would leave things too cluttered, or make the sets too easy to get (don't forget that complainers about "item uniqueness/exclusivity" are also a constant feature of the forums). Obv. Cryptic wants to put more weight behind the rep system, and hey, now it has a lot of weight.
All these changes have been designed to force players to engage with more systems rather than rely on just one thing for their daily grind. It's a shame that some of the complainers don't find these other systems as engaging as doing endless repetitions of STFs, but not everyone can get everything they want.
Exactly. I'm rubbish in elite STFs, and in all likelihood I'd never see a single piece of Mk. XII set gear. Now I can. Yay me!
And I got everything from stf in time and more and mind you this was including leveling :rolleyes:
The people who cry about never getting that last ground piece need some self-realization and admit they don't play ground.
I never had any problems on any character. And if I did, so what, I was still earning drops, chips and dilithium and even salvages for weapons.
But hey great 1up for the lazy people, just doesn't help the rest of us. I hope you can continue to enjoy zero rewards on all maps for your replica outfit
Like the whole justifcation of throwing stf away is giving those people access, why couldn't it stand on its own ?
Put the sets in the store, keep stf and make new content instead of this here circus
This system supposed to help those who been working hard (literally) for months and never got any Prototype Tech Drops, but when they are finally about to get them, they change the system where now they have to work again in unlocking Tier 5 Reputation, camping BNPs, and paying 34,000 Dilithium PER set piece.
IMHO, what PW did was more like kicking a person when they are down then helping them. Because there was a ton of other ways Cryptic could've helped those people out like trading # of Rares for Prototype or having accolades have a hand in making it easier.
Really, I'm starting to doubt they really understand things. And that will lead to the end of STO.
How many posts are you going to write about getting kicked somewhere just curious...i mean if someone kicked me over and over again...i would avoid that person. just saying. :rolleyes:
Or they should of increase the drop rate for the Prototype Borg salvage stuff.
I think the new system is kinda confusing to be honest.
Before I ran STFs got a marker to trade in for stuff or get items to trade in for MK XII gear.
I reflected a little on it, now that I am not playing.
It's easy to get fascinated by an item if you can just pop it using a command line and totally overlook the 3 months of work it takes to get there.
So looking on their screen all claps and cheering over an item whereas what we have in front of us +1500 hours before we even get permission to unlock it...
Why couldn't we just have great new content with nothing being taken away ?
At which point have you heard a single person say, you know what I am tired of the stf rewards please remove them! Or how about hey man I am so sick of tired to be allowed to play when I want to, you better lock the game up for me!
When I look at the idea to remove stf rewards as content for season 7 and then watch them be surprised at the lack of postive feedback from us, you can't help but to cook up some deliberate, sinister motive on their part because no way they are that oblivious to their own game.
That level of ignorance would be more crazy than them being calculative and exploitive.
But to them there is no grinding, there is only the excellence of the items they can insta-spawn, they won't hurt themselves if they double the grinding or remove w/e rewards because they are not involved.
I am sure for season 7 they spent a lot of time admiring how great the new maps looked, really for extensive periods of time standing behind some guy's pc and totally getting into it.
And at that moment I am sure they were totally convinced that the awesomeness of it would totally overshadow everything else because it did to them.
Which leads to them having a right to hate us for not returning good feedback unjustified.
To them it's still awesome and they deserve credit and to us half the game or more just went out the airlock.
So I guess the lack of understanding goes both ways, only the difference being they are getting paid to excute a profession so the responsibility has to be theirs.
This isn't a problem of the devs missing the forest for the trees. If anyone has a perspective issue, it's the whiners.
Why can't we have new content with nothing being taken away? Because it doesn't work that way! They can't just give everyone everything.
What you're not realizing here is that if they didn't "take away" something that you wanted to keep, something else would probably have to go. Why? Because, in all likelihood, there would have been problems with the economy.
Just as likely, there are business reasons for the decision, so not "taking away" the thing you wanted to keep would have "taken away" something from them (i.e. the opportunity to increase revenue). Call that greed if you like, time will tell whether it was the right decision to make.
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but that's what a lot of the whiners have been asking for.
Sure there is, this is a f2p game, I got all my ships, all weapons and full max ground sets on all my characters FOR FREE.
And no, I won't suddenly rush to buy zen for dil for old items that are now locked for the next 2 months :rolleyes:
Dstahl personally came out and said the idea of them making money off fleet and reputation dil "made him laugh". As in there in-come is from LTS, lockboxes and other ships and c-store items.
Now in addition they came out and said people are refining too little dilithium.
Finally the bragged on end about how well things are going and how they expanded their team and continue to do so.
So if you have an explanation for your "tactical economical decision" that fits that I'd love to hear it.
And to ask them same question again, why did they have to remove stf, exactly, to have a reputation system? Why not have both
No most of the time I heard..."I hate this stupid drop lucky system it sucks CRYPTIC!!! this sucks...why can't I just buy them...or put a bar so I at least know how close i am"
They did not take the guns shields armor etc. from people....but if you were sitting on a payload of salvage, and EDC's I mean what were people saving it for if they were not going to cash it in for dilithiumi...so Cryptic nudged them, and gave them a choice cash in now, or wait for it to convert.
Your math looks wonky. people should be hitting tier 5 in like 3 months.
i did one elite task force during the bonus how. gave me enough marks to hit tier 1 on its own. the more you unlock and buy the longer it takes but after some initial grinding the system should be miles better than the hit and hope style of the last ones.
Why did you have to remove something to add something ?
Keep stf, throw the sets on the store, reputation system with all NEW items standing on its own.
You can then buy your set pure cash, grind your way to it earning on stf or go play the reputation system.
What exactly would have been the problem
/edit
ps
Right back at you
100,000 points to tier 5
2800 points every 39 hours
100,000/2800=35,71 gates x 39 hours=1392,69hours/24=58,03 days to tier 5
less than 60 days is not "3 months"
Out with the old in with the new ..the old system sucked, so they put in a new system...everything with the old system...gone.
What would the problem have been keeping stf and having a rep system and having the ground sets on the c-store
(I assume that's what you mean when you say "the old system sucked")
From where I am sitting my rewards from stf got nucked from up to what 6000 k dil to max 980, PLUS all drops of items.
That's a 600 % decrease in rewards for what, you get access to the ground set you gave up on ?
Even so it's still the same question, why couldn't people like you, simply buy the set on the c-store while the rest of got to keep our stf's.
because i was not be anal about it. I said in 'like 3 months'.
do you think every single player is going to update their progress bars exactly on time, every single time?
Honestly? I don't have one. I'm not a member of the dev team and don't know how much money they're making and from where (clearly you do, though).
But the point of my answer was to say that sometimes you just can't have it all. Cryptic clearly believed that you couldn't have it all when it comes to STF rewards and reputation. Maybe we'll get lucky and have an explanation for why. We probably won't, but they don't do things for absolutely no reason.
There are likely factors in there that no one but they know about, and there's always the chance that the motivation might not have involved conferring direct benefits upon the playerbase.
This doesn't mean that the relationship between dev and playerbase has to be adversarial, but not every decision can please everyone.
Who knows? Cryptic, probably. It'd be nice if they could explain, but acting like we automatically know better just because we can't see the direct benefit to ourselves from our own narrow, self-interested perspective (nothing wrong with self-interest, mind you) helps no one.
Me I get set XII of all my klingon caracters. I play over 130 Cure for sec. protoweapon on one caracter, but i get it. If you like to help players with bed luck you coud make available set XII for a reasonable amount of EDC. This sopose to be a game and fun . I dont like it became a full time job. I spent time with one caracter to get full set XII then i made a new one. Now I must start work again with 4 of them to built a reputation sistem. I dont like the new sistem. Set XII help you at ground and ground is dead, so why i work like a slave to get something i never use in actual condition.A lot of mission are dead, ground mostly. I am happy i dont buy a life subscription.
Why would I want to pay for it in the C store what would be the point in that.
I'm not talking about dilithium, I never used STF's for it never needed too, nor do I need them now for dilithium.
I'm talking about doing 1000 STF's and no MK XII item, but someone else might have done 5 and got the full set.
and they did not take away your STFs they are still there plus 2 more.
Which is enough to cover weeks worth of marks, so yes, yes I do.
Add to that they don't have anything else to do after stf got nuked.
Anyway you overshot but 1/3 of the actual amount, I guess you heard 3 months somewhere but there is the math.
Even moreso, with those numbers you will have time to level several characters through the rep system.
But that aside when someone asks for a number and especially in this here case they want to know exactly how long it takes, naturally
Yes, and then the people who ran ESTF 3000000+ times to get the drops they need would cry and cry about how ESTFs are now pointless since you can buy everything with EDC.
I'm not saying the rep system is better automatically. Obviously not everyone is happy with it, but I am saying that one friend of mine can now get something that he wasn't blessed with the luck to receive before. It's good for him. If it's good for you, yay. If not, sorry. Maybe they'll roll it back when the whining gets too loud to handle.
Because work and sleep wont get in the way? i lost about 5 hours tonight simply because of the timezone today.
because no one will run store unlocks or just not play for a few days? everyone will be logged on, just in time to fire off the next project with exactly the right amount of EC to buy the items, marks to fill the project because everyone plays in exactly the same way? is that what you believe?
the average player will take more than the 2 months required because other unlocks, and life will get in the way so i added some grace period.
fine if nothing else in your life gets in the way it will take 2 months. for the average person it will take 'like 3 months'
Hmm, you said stf sucks but you don't use them and don't want the sets, so what's your point again ?
If you don't care about stf why even say anything, "stf sucks!" well you are not using them remember.
All the more the same point again, since you weren't even using them, you should feel absolutely nothing if I still get to stf, amirite.
And since you don't care about the sets either we wouldn't even have to put them on the store for you.
So what would be the problem, exactly
So it's just your intuition telling you which way is north on this one ?
Well if you remember they removed the dil cost from the reputation system aswell as rolled back the total cut of dil from stf.
So all that complaining did actually help in a very concrete way out here in really away from your gut feeling.
And also proved they aren't all ecompassing game masters you think they are, when they can roll out changes that crash the community only to roll them back a day later like they weren't really essential to the game afterall...
/edit
ps
I never said that and I never said I will get it done in 2 months.
The average player however, the typical player puts in enough time to have it running constantly, yes.
And the question was how long does the system take and that's under 2 months, not 3.
I use the STF's to get MACO stuff, not dilithium.
I like the new system, I don't have to burn myself out if I want mark 12 MACO gear for my alts now...I don't have to carry players who are bad, and watch them get the tech drop....it's not a perfect system, but it's better than the old system.
Its basically long thats about all we can say, and will take longer if you're someone like me that has a full time job, a life, & a family.
On a positive note:
This is where the advantage comes in, in regards to owning multiple characters - While the system is in the timer with one toon, I can utilize the time on another - so for me I view it that way.
But: I also understand those players with fewer that 3 to 4 alts.
I double checked the math on my post and realized that I was off because I'd forgotten to multiply number of repetitions by days. I got 72 days- 100,000/2800= 35.71 (realistically 36) x 40 hours (realistically 48 hours). That's two months and 12 days.
In practice, I don't think I'll be starting missions every 20 hours. More like every two days. So, a serious player could do it under 3 months.
I think it's fair to say that it will take "Like 3 months" or "about 3 months" for an average player.
The point of the OP is whether or not that's boring as hell and takes to long. IMHO the answer is no. Under the old system I got the 2 ship shields after playing for a month and went nearly 4 months before I got my ground set. By the time I got the ground set I said, "oh good I'm done." Now I have a 100% chance of getting the gear, I know exactly how long it will take to do it, and I'm not forced to do missions I don't like to get it. As someone mentioned above, I also don't have to watch some idiot die 10 times because he's flying a skittles boat, press need every time, and fly away with the loot from the optional drop.
I never said I knew which way was north, nor did I say Cryptic was making the right decision, or that it was infallible.
I simply don't know enough to say either way. All I was saying, and all I ever said, was that they probably had their reasons for the decision, reasons that we as players can't always see clearly (or even empathize with). Players rightly want what's best for themselves, but sadly, what's best for themselves isn't always what's best for the game at large.
Never did I tell anyone to stop questioning their decisions or posting feedback or complaining, I just asked that they keep perspective, rather than immediately assume that the devs were out to TRIBBLE them over or were ignoring their pleas because surely the customer is always right.
Cryptic backed down over the feedback. Great! That means they were listening. Keep telling them what you want, and if they agree that it will help the game overall (and not just the vocal minority butthurt about losing an easy farming opportunity), then maybe they'll listen.
But the exact number for the rep system remains 58.02875 days.
Add to that, the average user supposedly spends more than 7 hours in-game per week.
That's a lot more fuel that the reputation system needs.
So you do want the gear ? Well make up your mind, you are reverting yourself everytime you post.
Gear goes on the c-store, since you so happy being dilithium for it.
Grinders get to continue working on stf as they used to without you being involved.
Same question again what would be the problem ? What would the difference be between dishing out 120.000 dil in the rep window or doing it the c-store window ?
You do realize you are paying for the sets now, right