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STF: PUGs, Leaver Penalties, Vote Kick, AFK: a solution?
azniadeet
Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
Always a hot topic of discussion is what to do with STFs when someone goes AFK, or when a team has newbies who won't listen to instruction, or who don't speak the language, and just can't complete the tasks at hand...
Leaver Penalties are often unfair, as a group can repeatedly try to accomplish a goal, and because of inexperienced, not listening, griefing, or AFK players: they just can't move on- Who takes the leaver penalty? When it gets bad enough, it's often merciful for someone to 'take one for the team' and leave.
Some people propose a "vote kick" function. But this would certainly lead to abuse. Inexperienced players who are legitimately trying to learn could be abused by impatient veterans, and that would discourage them from continuing to learn the STFs.
So what to do? We've got players who are beyond redemption who TRIBBLE things up for everyone else, and we've got players who are trying to learn but just might make mistakes. How do we balance a merciful solution that doesn't punish anyone for leaving if they're left with no other choice, and doesn't discouage new players from learning?
My proposed solution is a "Vote End" function. Rather than voting to kick any one player, this would be a function to simply end the STF with no leaver fees. If three players on a team agree that the team is incapable of moving on, they can activate a vote function to simply end the STF with no penalty to anyone on the team. This allows everyone to reset and doesn't allow for any functional abuse. A "Vote End" function is the best answer!
Leaver Penalties are often unfair, as a group can repeatedly try to accomplish a goal, and because of inexperienced, not listening, griefing, or AFK players: they just can't move on- Who takes the leaver penalty? When it gets bad enough, it's often merciful for someone to 'take one for the team' and leave.
Some people propose a "vote kick" function. But this would certainly lead to abuse. Inexperienced players who are legitimately trying to learn could be abused by impatient veterans, and that would discourage them from continuing to learn the STFs.
So what to do? We've got players who are beyond redemption who TRIBBLE things up for everyone else, and we've got players who are trying to learn but just might make mistakes. How do we balance a merciful solution that doesn't punish anyone for leaving if they're left with no other choice, and doesn't discouage new players from learning?
My proposed solution is a "Vote End" function. Rather than voting to kick any one player, this would be a function to simply end the STF with no leaver fees. If three players on a team agree that the team is incapable of moving on, they can activate a vote function to simply end the STF with no penalty to anyone on the team. This allows everyone to reset and doesn't allow for any functional abuse. A "Vote End" function is the best answer!
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Comments
It's certainly better than the vote kick idea and I cannot see much room for abuse (beyond that of 3 players already determined to stir things up).
but apart from that, i like the idea
A very fair and elegant way for people to deal with a STF that for whatever reason is going nowhere.
And to reply to the person asking what about the loot, i do not see the issue since whatever loot the players might have got before terminating the STF, they worked for it. STFs give no free loot as far as i know and it always is random.
report someone if you see them doing something wrong
Yea... nothing is gonna happen about that... It's not against the games rules to sit still and do nothing during STF's, and to be blunt: The don't care.
Im sorry but are you suggesting that they still have the leaver penalty but not have a vote kick.
And you're advocating to Report Abuse if you see someone doing something wrong?
Not sure if serious or troll.
Ontopic: The Vote End STF sounds like a good idea.
Cant tell you how many times I roll into an Space STF and oh look 3 out of 5 people are rainbow boating. Delightful.
Aw... thats cute. The escort has BEAM ARRAYS. WHY.
Or ground STF where one guy decided that Leroy Jenkins is a person to emulate and aggros everything in the freaking place.
I don't know. What is 'beyond redemption'?
How about creating an algorithm that automatically replaces 'afk' players? If the player does not show a significant amount of involvement, the STF will automatically replace them with another person. Solution solved.
When it comes to the optional objectives, why not extend their time period in the normal stfs? It will allow veteran players to teach new players without the pressure of a timer.
Cryptic has already started on a solution. Once the reputation system comes out, every player will be able to get the recruit, veteran, and elite items. You will not have to worry about timers, random drops, and pugs.
Why should three people be allowed to end a stf; thus, allowing three players to punish a fourth player for a fifth player's actions? If three players leave a stf, due to the actions of one player, all four players should be hit with a leaver penalty. Why? It simple. All four players caused problems for an innocent bystander.
Anything that puts players in control of other players will lead to abuse.
I would just setup behind the scenes algorithms to deal with the issues.
What makes you think what you have to say is important? What makes you so special? If you can answer those two questions objectively, without an ounce of subjectivity, I will then take what you have to say into consideration. When things go horribly wrong in stfs, the vocal players spam the chatbox with hate and discrimination. As someone who is an innocent bystander, I close the chatbox when the first player yelps out. I don't want to read your complaints about other players. I also don't want you to tell me what to do. I want to play the stfs according to my own style.
I am suggesting algorithms to control the issue, and you are suggesting they should give you power.
If you're not going to do what's necessary to complete the tasks, and you're not going to listen to the instruction on how to: you're a griefer. Being self centered, and refusing to be a team player is not fair to those who work together. At a minimum, they should have the power to distance themselves from 'your style', penalty free.
Sounds like you need to check your attitude if you don't understand this, because what you're describing is beyond redemption.
(1) You cannot force people to change.
(2) You should not punish people for their learning curve.
(3) You should not punish people for how they learn.
(4) You should not punish people for the time it takes them to learn.
Not everything is in black and white. Independent players like to learn on their own, so they will go through a 'trial and error' process. When I was learning how to build computers, I ripped apart my entire system. I observed how things were setup, pulled things apart, and then put everything back together. My errors allowed me to dig deeper into the mechanics; thus, I was able to formulate the appropriate questions. Even though I eventually learned certain complexities in college, my initial learning experience came from 'trial and error'.
I am a mechanically inclined individual who doesn't wait for someone to say go. I don't need someone to tell me what to do. I jump into the pool to see if I can swim. Even though I will be faced with failures, I will use them to drive me towards success. Once I have certain questions in place, I will then seek out their complexities.
I don't care if you fail during my process.
If you cannot see this game as a form of entertainment, you are taking this experience to an extremely serious level. Nothing we do in this environment affects real life. When a new player blotches an stf, you should be laughing and enjoying the experience. New players will eventually learn. Once you start to lighten up the atmosphere, new players will feel more relaxed to ask questions.
Your gaming experience will remain tense, for as long as you keep taking a serious approach.
Relax, laugh, exercise patience, and enjoy the fun.
You don't care if your teammates fail during your process.
The admission of that kind of selfishness is the best argument I've ever heard for a 'vote kick'.
I can learn on my own through a trial and error process. Once certain questions do arise, I will then seek out their answers.
Not everything is in black and white.
Please reread my posts to see the flaw in your approach.
How about the player who has learning issues? Some players suffer from ADHD. Some are slower learners than others. How would you approach them? Do you yell at them for causing you to fail? Or, do you use patience? Are you going to 'vote kick' someone for not being able to keep up? Many of those people have their own style of learning.
Normal is there for those wanting to get their feet in STFs first, a bit of learning, maybe aquiring a Mk X/XI set of something and perhaps to do some experimenting before elite, so those going into normal should expect this.. Elite though, if a group here has failed, yea it usually is better to end it for the mercy of all, and most in elite would recognize when its time.
All together though, I have very rarely had an elite fail completly, so to me, it isn't a very critical issue.
"We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile."
Sincerely,
The Cube Assimilating Your Ship Right Now
It occurs to me that a big part of the problem is that as you get promoted through the Admiral ranks and start becoming eligible to use Mk XI and XII gear, grinding Normal STFs for Mk X gear (and no salvage other than EDCs, IIRC) becomes kind of pointless, n00b or not. After all, if you must grind at all in an MMO, you might as well seek out the most lucrative grinding opportunities possible - hence, legions of STF n00bs grinding at the Elite level, regardless of their skill at it.
In all honesty, the only way I can see to circumvent this problem would be to make drops and rewards the same at both levels, except give the Elite missions, say, a 5-10% chance of also yielding some uber-valuable item that can otherwise only be found in a lockbox or the Z-store (or nowhere else at all), thus drastically reducing the incentive for n00bs to grind Elite missions while still giving non-n00bs something to shoot for. And if that doesn't do the trick, just throw in the towel and abandon the two-tier STF system entirely.
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YES PLS.
id love something like this.
eg. infected ground and half the team refuse to jump or reaptedly jump in plasma so they dont have to do anything. the amount of times i seen a team that is not even capable of pressing space bar or understand that 3 people are needed ALIVE to click the consoles.
then if u stay its not going anywhere they are not going to complete it in a million years u got two choices get a ban for leaving or sit and watch the team fail for a few hours til someone quits.
vote YES on end match vote
It will be abused by so called vets, one time read at forum one so called elite vet left his team cause he found out 1 of the team mates had less than 500 accolade points... :rolleyes:
3 vets will abuse it and newbies wont know why the match ended, and after a while they will feel segregated and leave game. Now there is a solution: don't PUG if you are not ready to risk failure cause of unknown team members, join an active fleet or STF channel and STF with people you meet in those
Why isn't there some way to kick the AFKers and get them replaced?
The real annoying ones are the AFK players who magically come alive when it's time to collect the reward. I've encountered too many of those. I desperately wanted to kick them to replace them with a real player.
There needs to be some solution. If not an algorithm detecting movement then how about the afk timer is reduced to 5 minutes in an STF? No movement in 5 minutes and they're logged off.