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Proposal for balance
trimenranger1
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Ok I have read 100 or so threads about brining balance or how to return cruisers to their former glory. I may have an idea that will be controversial. Special Multipliers for both vessels and weapons
Instead of having a generic 10km engagement range, vary them by ship class and weapons. Also vary the performances of the ships. Cruisers with the same engine already turn slower than an escort but to keep pace in straight line speed??
proposed range multipliers
Attack range multiplier: [vessel/structure]
Star bases: 3.0
Satellite: 1.8
Cruiser: 1.5
Science Vessel: 1.25
Escort: 1.0
Shuttle: .75
Base range: [Weaponsystems]
Energy Weapon Bank Single: 14km
Energy Weapon Dual Bank: 12km
Energy Weapon Cannon Single: 12km
Energy Weapon Cannon Dual: 12km
Energy Weapon Cannon Dual Heavy: 10km
Projectile Torpedo: 20km
Projectile Mine: 0km (5km trigger range unmodifiable)
Damage Fall off:
Energy Weapon Bank Single: (-5%/km)/(Range multiplier )
Energy Weapon Dual Beam Bank: (-4%/km)/(Range multiplier )
Energy Weapon Single Cannon: (-8%/km)/(Range multiplier*1.75)
Energy Weapon Dual Cannon: (-9%/km)/(Range multiplier*2.25)
Energy Weapon Dual Heavy Cannon: (-10%/km)/(Range multiplier*3)
EG: Ship; weapon; max firing range, [damage threshold]; 10km range, [damage threshold]
Cruiser; Single Beam Bank; 21km, [30%]; 10km, [66.67%]
Escort; Single Beam Bank; 14km, [30%]; 10km, [50%]
Escort; Dual Heavy Cannon; 10km, [66.67%]
We see that the Cruiser will have a much farther reach and better damage at all ranges then the escort when using single beam weapon however a Dual heavy cannon though limited to 10km on a escort retains the same damage thresholds over the same distances. What makes this lucrative is when a DHC is equipped on a Dreadnaught giving it 15km Range of destruction.
To balance this we also need to have 2 other multipliers. Targeting and speed
Targeting Accuracy
Cruiser: -2.0% / km
Science:-0.25% / km
Escort: -0.5% / km
Eg.
at 21km the cruiser is reduced by 42% accuracy
at 14km a escort is reduced by only 7% accuracy
This means that while cruiser have a super long reach, it will struggle to land shots at maximum ranges while science vessels will be snipers. Stacking accuracy will help offset this.
Speed:
Cruiser: 1.0
Science Vessel: 1.25
Escort: 1.5
All together my proposal will give Escorts a tactical edge in close combat and the ability to rapidly close in on targets, however it give Cruiser captains the ability play strategy. They can fall back out of the fray and engage target outside of the range of return fire. Science vessel can dominate in intermediate ranges with highly precise weapons. Cruisers that can mount Dual Heavy Cannons will enjoy a tremendous boost to combat prowess with the ability to stand off at long range and fire devastating shots from as far as 15km.
discuss
Instead of having a generic 10km engagement range, vary them by ship class and weapons. Also vary the performances of the ships. Cruisers with the same engine already turn slower than an escort but to keep pace in straight line speed??
proposed range multipliers
Attack range multiplier: [vessel/structure]
Star bases: 3.0
Satellite: 1.8
Cruiser: 1.5
Science Vessel: 1.25
Escort: 1.0
Shuttle: .75
Base range: [Weaponsystems]
Energy Weapon Bank Single: 14km
Energy Weapon Dual Bank: 12km
Energy Weapon Cannon Single: 12km
Energy Weapon Cannon Dual: 12km
Energy Weapon Cannon Dual Heavy: 10km
Projectile Torpedo: 20km
Projectile Mine: 0km (5km trigger range unmodifiable)
Damage Fall off:
Energy Weapon Bank Single: (-5%/km)/(Range multiplier )
Energy Weapon Dual Beam Bank: (-4%/km)/(Range multiplier )
Energy Weapon Single Cannon: (-8%/km)/(Range multiplier*1.75)
Energy Weapon Dual Cannon: (-9%/km)/(Range multiplier*2.25)
Energy Weapon Dual Heavy Cannon: (-10%/km)/(Range multiplier*3)
EG: Ship; weapon; max firing range, [damage threshold]; 10km range, [damage threshold]
Cruiser; Single Beam Bank; 21km, [30%]; 10km, [66.67%]
Escort; Single Beam Bank; 14km, [30%]; 10km, [50%]
Escort; Dual Heavy Cannon; 10km, [66.67%]
We see that the Cruiser will have a much farther reach and better damage at all ranges then the escort when using single beam weapon however a Dual heavy cannon though limited to 10km on a escort retains the same damage thresholds over the same distances. What makes this lucrative is when a DHC is equipped on a Dreadnaught giving it 15km Range of destruction.
To balance this we also need to have 2 other multipliers. Targeting and speed
Targeting Accuracy
Cruiser: -2.0% / km
Science:-0.25% / km
Escort: -0.5% / km
Eg.
at 21km the cruiser is reduced by 42% accuracy
at 14km a escort is reduced by only 7% accuracy
This means that while cruiser have a super long reach, it will struggle to land shots at maximum ranges while science vessels will be snipers. Stacking accuracy will help offset this.
Speed:
Cruiser: 1.0
Science Vessel: 1.25
Escort: 1.5
All together my proposal will give Escorts a tactical edge in close combat and the ability to rapidly close in on targets, however it give Cruiser captains the ability play strategy. They can fall back out of the fray and engage target outside of the range of return fire. Science vessel can dominate in intermediate ranges with highly precise weapons. Cruisers that can mount Dual Heavy Cannons will enjoy a tremendous boost to combat prowess with the ability to stand off at long range and fire devastating shots from as far as 15km.
discuss
Trimen Ranger
Admiral Federation Tactical Corps
>Star Fleet Elite Force< Click if you are ready to boldy go where no one has gone before.
Seek not the final frontier if you fear the unknown. -Admiral Trimen Ranger
Admiral Federation Tactical Corps
>Star Fleet Elite Force< Click if you are ready to boldy go where no one has gone before.
Seek not the final frontier if you fear the unknown. -Admiral Trimen Ranger
Post edited by trimenranger1 on
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Comments
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CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Are you aware that my Escort unbuffed at 5km out-performs my cruiser with EPtW in place at the same distance?
I propose that the drop off for DHC's be changed? This is part of the balance.
In my proposal a cruiser with Beams will have over twice the firing range of a escort using a DHC however once the Escort that moves 50% faster then a cruiser closes the distance to 10km the DHC's ferocity will more then make up the damage taken in a heart beat as the drop off will mirror that of the Cruiser's beams sub 10km.
My propsal gives cruisers a tremendous area of influence but also improves escorts ability to slug it out in close contact.
Think of the strategies that can be employed.
A strike team centers around the cruisers that engange targets from long range, Escorts can then engage target that are sent to take out the cruisers, with Science ships surgically taking down ship at medium ranges.
If you notice I propose that torps get a 20km base range which mean that a cruiser can shoot across entire maps though torps are not effective vs shielded targets. Can you say artillery barrage to wither down enemy forces? This will force players to use better strategies instead of the head long omni strike routine of escort captains now.
Please read my proposal as it changes everything we know about combat.
Admiral Federation Tactical Corps
>Star Fleet Elite Force< Click if you are ready to boldy go where no one has gone before.
Seek not the final frontier if you fear the unknown. -Admiral Trimen Ranger
not really because the cruiser is not going to be able to stay far enough away long enough
What I find interesting about this idea of yours is the idea of varying how the game is played depending on what kind of career path you've chosen. At the end of the day, every skill of each of the classes is available to every player in the game. You can pick which ones you want to have and use them to your heart's content. This, coupled with the fact that any ship can go up against any other ship and have even money for who will come out of the fight, makes for a game that is pretty narrow in function. There just aren't that many options for what you can do (and some of those options are just patently dumb tactics). Pretty much what it boils down to is get close, try to keep your torpedoes facing your enemy, and shoot until they explode. Anybody who has played the game long enough will be set up to counter most potential BOFF abilities, so fights really do come down to who happens to roll the best numbers (which is something we don't have control over).
Your idea means that you get to make different choices based on what kind of ship you're flying and I think that's really cool and infinitely more challenging. If you're flying an escort, you have to figure out how to minimize the damage that you're going to take while you're out of range. If you're flying a cruiser, you have to figure out how to hold your enemy at a distance so that you have the advantage. It places an emphasis on personal strategy rather than game mechanics being ever in your favor. You can make any number of choices on how to use your weapons. And I would even argue that the plan here should be extended to all the BOFF and Captain abilities too so that they scale differently for the captain using them or the ship they're being used on.
There's gotta be huge sacrifices for each gain though. And I would also say that there's gotta be some further options between the differences within the classes so that if you want to fly a cruiser but don't want to be forced into having a bigger advantage at a distance, you have the option to play some other way but still fly a cruiser.
let me study some on that trimenranger1 and get back with ya.
good response.
The idea is to give ships actual purposes and better defined roles that better mirror real world tactics. Capital ships are the center piece of the fleet with attendant and pickett ships arrayed around it for protection. Cruisers have firepower range but lack the versatility and agility of Frigates and destroyers.
under my model Cruisers would be the long range heavy hitter, the true capital ship. Escorts become destroyers and science ships become the guided missile frigate.
This will force players to seriously consider role and capabilites when assembling a attack group. The only variance in abilities to my proposals should come from captain traits. BOFF's and DOFF's should not have varying effect based on the captain's career choice. What should change is the bias on missions. A tactical captain should have more combat missions, a science capatain should have more exploration, and engineers should have more support.
Think of the capatain career as another multiplier.
Admiral Federation Tactical Corps
>Star Fleet Elite Force< Click if you are ready to boldy go where no one has gone before.
Seek not the final frontier if you fear the unknown. -Admiral Trimen Ranger
Actually, there is. In the game both the Galaxy and the Defiant are one player. if they are not equally powerful one type of pilot isn't going to hang around. Just an FYI, cruisers are not like tanks in traditional trinity MMOs, there is NO hero ship in STO, and a lot of us like it that way. Its a pity so many cruiser pilots don't seem to realize the problem is THEM insisting all fights should be defaulted to the one that can last the longest while trading shots at 10 km....
Why? No thanks. I'd rather go in with ANY team makeup and know the objective is achievable. Stop trying to make all games fit into a trinity or trinity-like setup.
I want my multi-purpose jack of all trades, best at nothing, cruiser build to be viable again... that would make my play style viable again which would make me very happy
Ahh that is the beauty in my design. If you know real world tactics frigates and destroyers act as standalone vessels with tremedous capabilities. It's all about how you integrate those capabilities within a fleet.
I proposed a way to balance each ship against one another so that each will have a situational advantage they can exploit.
I do not see how my design creates a trinity; DPS, Healer, Tank. I am solely focused on combat capabilities. Cruisers become long range artillery but have the armor to take shots up close. Escorts become fast moving piranha chewing up anything that comes into range. Science Ship become surgeons cutting out ships from the body of their enemy fleets with great precisicion at intermediate ranges.
This is not tank, healer, DPS, this is layered RDPS with variable effectiveness given ship class, skill layouts.
Admiral Federation Tactical Corps
>Star Fleet Elite Force< Click if you are ready to boldy go where no one has gone before.
Seek not the final frontier if you fear the unknown. -Admiral Trimen Ranger