Once a conversation among peers drops to that level it is fairly much useless, so how about you both cut each other some slack and agree to disagree.
Each of us sees the game in our own view, while both make great points, both of you also make statements that many do not agree with. Some things I like that I have read here, some things I simply do not.
Still, Flekh does have one thing correct...
Something has to change.
Flekh, thank you so much for sharing and for taking the time to write out your ideas and concerns. It is a great deal to consider along with some other thoughts that many others have given here. I am not commenting much more that this, simply because, heck I have my own ideas, but listening first to others express their views helps me view the game as they do. It is an interesting path to be sure and something to give honest consideration to all possibilities.
A good amount to consider.
Good post.
Since I've pretty much made my position sufficiently clear already, I will follow suit and listen to others first too now, as a re-hash would indeed likely end in a re-clash.
I too think something should be done. I just don't think taking away healing others in space is the way to go, is all. But I'll leave the verdict on it to future historians. One thing is for certain, it will be an interesting day to see what Cryptic will come up with.
Since I've pretty much made my position sufficiently clear already, I will follow suit and listen to others first too now, as a re-hash would indeed likely end in a re-clash.
I too think something should be done. I just don't think taking away healing others in space is the way to go, is all. But I'll leave the verdict on it to future historians. One thing is for certain, it will be an interesting day to see what Cryptic will come up with.
And after such a graceful response, watch cryptic do... Absolutely nothing.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
And after such a graceful response, watch cryptic do... Absolutely nothing.
The irony is, if they did actually do something, they'd likely boost cruiser defense, while reducing it's offense even further. Perhaps with an innate bonus and deficit. Of course they could do the opposite with escorts, but in the end, it really wouldn't change much, and the lack of cross healing would basically neuter diversity in STFs and fleet missions.
I often swap to a healer/CC role for starbase assault because I find it quite enjoyable with the huge # of players, compared to my usual dps role I take in STFs.
Ironically, my engineer in an escort can tank all this stuff without cross healing so it doesn't really change anything. It took me almost 30 minutes to solo a tac cube in ISE but I managed to do it in an Armitage.
Probably could have done so with my tac, but I'd have been shooting and scooting. My Engineer never had to run, though it was close a few times.
What this really is, or seems to me, is a veiled PvP rant where cross-healing can easily trump the opposition because they lack team coordination.
Cryptic's not going to abolish ally heals in any way, shape, or form.
Sure, we can probably all of us agree that the very idea that I can magically regenerate my wingman's hull from a distance of 5k away is not terribly Trek. That I can regenerate my own hull, okay -- screwier things have happened in Trek -- but distance heals not so much.
Same thing for waving a tricorder around and healing my BOFF's disruptor burn from 10 meters away.
That said, this is a game. And it's meant to be a multiplayer social-type game at that. On top of that, it's the only game Cryptic is involved with where that kind of healing doesn't quite fit the genre.
Without that kind of healing, combat would be very Trek indeed.
Zap! "Jim, he's dead!"
Zap! "Captain! We're losing containment --" BOOM.
Yeah, a lot of hardcore players wouldn't mind playing that game. But would it work for the majority? The people that probably expect those heal powers to work the way they do, to be able to stay in the fight a little bit longer?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Since I've pretty much made my position sufficiently clear already, I will follow suit and listen to others first too now, as a re-hash would indeed likely end in a re-clash.
I too think something should be done. I just don't think taking away healing others in space is the way to go, is all. But I'll leave the verdict on it to future historians. One thing is for certain, it will be an interesting day to see what Cryptic will come up with.
*Offers outstretched hand*
Good Game.
Even if a bit short.
//
Yes, I considered this "sports". A duel of wits. And meimeitoo didn't come unarmed, which I can respect. In real life, this would be the time to offer to continue the discussion over a beer.
Let's be honest, if you make a proposal that's cutting deep into the status quo, you have to expect a backlash, often a hefty one. And there's no other option that to make a stand and weather it until someone steps in as the voice of reason to end it.
Afterwards ... that is, if it didn't totally turn into a flamewar ... the hostilities are over, people can take a step back - and actually argue the topic.
*hands out virtual beer to meimeitoo, bluegeek and bludagger*
//
Once a conversation among peers drops to that level it is fairly much useless, so how about you both cut each other some slack and agree to disagree.
Each of us sees the game in our own view, while both make great points, both of you also make statements that many do not agree with. Some things I like that I have read here, some things I simply do not.
Still, Flekh does have one thing correct...
Something has to change.
Flekh, thank you so much for sharing and for taking the time to write out your ideas and concerns. It is a great deal to consider along with some other thoughts that many others have given here. I am not commenting much more that this, simply because, heck I have my own ideas, but listening first to others express their views helps me view the game as they do. It is an interesting path to be sure and something to give honest consideration to all possibilities.
The irony is, if they did actually do something, they'd likely boost cruiser defense, while reducing it's offense even further. Perhaps with an innate bonus and deficit. Of course they could do the opposite with escorts, but in the end, it really wouldn't change much, and the lack of cross healing would basically neuter diversity in STFs and fleet missions.
I often swap to a healer/CC role for starbase assault because I find it quite enjoyable with the huge # of players, compared to my usual dps role I take in STFs.
Ironically, my engineer in an escort can tank all this stuff without cross healing so it doesn't really change anything. It took me almost 30 minutes to solo a tac cube in ISE but I managed to do it in an Armitage.
Probably could have done so with my tac, but I'd have been shooting and scooting. My Engineer never had to run, though it was close a few times.
What this really is, or seems to me, is a veiled PvP rant where cross-healing can easily trump the opposition because they lack team coordination.
This is a good post to get back to topic.
Actually: this is not a veiled PvP rant - but yes, the issue is a lot more important in PvP than in PvE, which we all basically agree is too easy.
So let's get the PvE side sorted before we move to PvP:
- Cross-healing isn't needed in PvE - I never said it was. Zerking works perfectly fine, especially with P2W ships that take ages to actually die (unless one- or two-shot :P)
- Cross-healing is a problem in PvE still, because the option exists - and so there's a need to balance it.
- The only thing even remotely balancing against crosshealing is the insane burst-damage the mobs in eSTF and some fleet content can dish out. Burst that can, in extreme cases, even one-shot the most tanky ships.
- IMHO, this is not a good mechanic.
- And even worse, unless someone (either us, the comunity, or Cryptic themselves) comes up with a way to defuse that issue, it's not going to get better for future content.
So there's basically two solutions:
- Either they balance the general damage output of NPC so that content requires dedicated healers to complete,
- Or they get rid of cross-healing to allow for more sane threats,
- Or any content will be a joke for an optimized group, and probably still too hard for many randoms. I don't count this as a "solution".
The first option plays to the dedicated, hardcore players.
The second option plays to the weekend-Kirks.
So much for PvE.
In PvP it looks a lot more dire.
- Cross-healing is the key to victory in PvP.
- This requires a lot of coordination, practice and good setups.
- Which makes PvP pretty much completely inaccessible for the casual crowd.
- And even for many potentially good players, as they lack the practiced and coordinated team.
- It's the main reason that PvP in this game is pretty much dead, at least public PvP.
- (yes, I know, the dedicated PvP fleets are running private matches - but this actually makes things worse, since it means there's even fewer people to fill queues, again making PvP less accessible for interested newcomers.)
- The problem that cross-healing poses in PvP is so big that Cryptic has started nerfs targeted at it - nerfs that have just as much of an impact on PvE, threatening to break whole classes of ships.
- Cross-healing is actually one of the main reasons that Sci looks so weak and undesireable, as the effect of Sci abilities can't even remotely compete with potential healing.
Getting rid of cross-healing would:
- level the playing field for newcomers,
- revitalizing PvP
- and be a huge indirect buff to Sci abilities without a need to make them overpowered.
...
- and, of course, be a huge nerf to the established PvP fleet, who can field the required coordination and practice.
(I know you're fine with that part of the status quo. Unfortunately, if you cling to it, you're hurting the game as a whole. Would it be so bad to lose some of your edge?)
I don't know it this is the best way to do things. But I'm pretty sure that the dynamics of this game would still be interesting without cross-healing, And I'm also pretty sure that it would help quite a few aspects of the game. That's why I made this proposal. If anyone has a better idea, I'll support that one instead.
Actually i would like to see the healing abilities of escorts reduced, increasing the need for a healer, with one caviate: that damaged healed be counted for the rewards as much as dps. It is frustration to do mirror invasion, spend your time being a teammate, healing the others ans not get the better drop because you are healing instead of shooting.
Actually i would like to see the healing abilities of escorts reduced, increasing the need for a healer, with one caviate: that damaged healed be counted for the rewards as much as dps. It is frustration to do mirror invasion, spend your time being a teammate, healing the others ans not get the better drop because you are healing instead of shooting.
I'll agree that healing -- or any other form of buff/defense -- should count for something.
Cryptic only has two ways that they can reduce the healing abilities of escorts.
1. Change the abilities themselves, so that they heal less.
2. Restrict the availability of power slots to those abilities.
#1 doesn't fly because even if it's technically possible for a healing power to recognize that it's being activated from an escort (which I'll bet it is not), Cryptic isn't going to want to change an ability's effectiveness to be situational. From their viewpoint, that ability should work the same way for everybody, in any ship, in PvP and in PvE.
#2 is a bit better in that you CAN target escorts with that doctrine. But only by using the sledgehammer. You can restrict the number of Engineering and Science slots available, but then that targets all of those abilities and not just the heals.
It's just not that easy to solve under the status quo, I'm afraid.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Okay, I thought of a third way that Cryptic could, theoretically, limit the effectiveness of heals on an escort. But nobody's going to like it.
They could probably give all escorts a resistance vs heals, thus making heals less effective on escorts so that they need heals more often to get the same amount of damage control.
Assuming a resist on heals is even possible in the current iteration of code.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
It's hard to resist the irony and sarcasm, so I'll drop my 2 cents here...
Whoever is interested may visit tribble to find the following:
* new and exctiting ground mission
* retro borg set been split into 3 pieces
* no longer 3 set borg as of console + deflector + engine gives hull heal, shield heal
* console will now form new set with dbb and torp
* some reman/omega stuff...
and an icing on the cake that elite stfs are rewarding 400 dil per run.
so lemme sum it up for ye:
* you gonna die more often
* there will be no dil
I assume this is done in order to encourage sci/eng support to heal teammates and to remove the self healing escort out of the game, but we all know that there are more competent escorts than competent cruisers.
It's hard to resist the irony and sarcasm, so I'll drop my 2 cents here...
Whoever is interested may visit tribble to find the following:
* new and exctiting ground mission
* retro borg set been split into 3 pieces
* no longer 3 set borg as of console + deflector + engine gives hull heal, shield heal
* console will now form new set with dbb and torp
* some reman/omega stuff...
and an icing on the cake that elite stfs are rewarding 400 dil per run.
so lemme sum it up for ye:
* you gonna die more often
* there will be no dil
I assume this is done in order to encourage sci/eng support to heal teammates and to remove the self healing escort out of the game, but we all know that there are more competent escorts than competent cruisers.
Most I'm just unhappy with, but the red is just heartbreaking... absolutely no reason for me to run STFs after this , unless an alternative way of getting dilithium is put in place.
Most I'm just unhappy with, but the red is just heartbreaking... absolutely no reason for me to run STFs after this , unless an alternative way of getting dilithium is put in place.
we shud've seen it coming since S6 content kinda got no dil rewards whatsoever.
I assume that "monetization designers" dream of how they can introduce "premium ammunition" into STO so they can charge for each pew pew that we do in game... however as intellect limited as they come they see that:
* ground engine is buggy as hell and about 7 years old by now
* space engine is passable
* overall network engine suffers from LAG and underdevelopment
so from business perspective this game is a lost cause. The only thing left here is to milk the game for what its worth.
Welcome to how the game was pre-F2P. Cruisers were incredible self -healers, sci ships were shield tanks, escorts were speedy burst damage ships but had poor healing.
But the game has been turned to TRIBBLE. Abandon any hope of any semblance of balance...the devs only care about pushing sales and sales are pushed by click=high reward (insta super healing, insta super damage, etc).
I will preface this post with this: I HATE MMO trinity.
There is no realism. Trinity play is not realistic. Realistic are ships with weapon systems that make them individually capable, used in a battle group or fleet of vessels with different capabilities that complement over all mission capability.
Everyone wants to be the hero. Everyone wants to be the most valuable asset. Most do not want to be just the healer or just the big moving target while someone else does all the damage. I've never once seen a carrier Captain say "I will take my ship into the middle of that enemy fleet while that hospital ship repairs me and all you destroyers shoot them.
Most nerf QQ comes from players whining about balance. Most of the time the real issue is they aren't the hero or center of attention so they complain when they don't get what they want, others buy in, and a perfectly good game component gets squashed.
Every ship should be equally survive able. Canonically, star ships were designed for self sufficiency and able to serve a 5 year mission with support only needed in the worst of cases.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
1. Change the abilities themselves, so that they heal less.
2. Restrict the availability of power slots to those abilities.
#1 doesn't fly because even if it's technically possible for a healing power to recognize that it's being activated from an escort (which I'll bet it is not), Cryptic isn't going to want to change an ability's effectiveness to be situational. From their viewpoint, that ability should work the same way for everybody, in any ship, in PvP and in PvE.
It's just not that easy to solve under the status quo, I'm afraid.
I know I'm re-opening this and it's likely a bad idea but I did have an idea as to how to reduce healing on escorts by changing the skills without reducing them.
I expect the current system is heal X amount on this skill, add mods...
All well and good until you make this viable on high hp and then use on low hp so here is the suggested modification to this:
Heal X percentage of max hp, add mods...
This allows you to make the percentage viable for high hp and use it on low hp to the same effectiveness. problem solved
I believe the biggest issue with Escorts is the Field Generator abuse. I have 3 of them stacked on my mobius destroyer. Combined with two copies of eptS, and with two tac teams. I can't die in PvE, unless I'm one shotted by something in an eSTF.
That's not what I said in any way, shape or form, the issue I highlighted was that with healing set up for high hp ships (has to be to make it noticeable) as a given figure rather than percentage makes that same heal far more effective on a low HP ship.
It's not escort healing hate at all, it's simply regulating the effectiveness of heals so that it has the same effectiveness on any ship.
P.S. I thought it was a bad idea reopening this one...
Actually i would like to see the healing abilities of escorts reduced, increasing the need for a healer, with one caviate: that damaged healed be counted for the rewards as much as dps. It is frustration to do mirror invasion, spend your time being a teammate, healing the others ans not get the better drop because you are healing instead of shooting.
Already happening.
The Borg set is being changed so the Borg heal procs are no longer a factor.
Tactical team is due for a change so the shield distribution ability is going to change.
Shield Distribution DOffs/ BFI DOffs are being changed so that shield heal is less of a issue.
Those three changes will have a big effect on the Escorts ability to heal themselves.
I do find it funny though how many seem to think the Escort has some special heal ability that puts them above the Cruiser.
The Escort players have merely figured out how to best defend themselves using abilities that any player can employ. Only ApO is a partially escort only defense.
Any Cruiser can run TT, cycle EPTx or used the Borg set and BFI DOffs to help thier defense.
I do agree that it sucks if reward drops are meant to drop to the highest damage dealer. Rewards should be random for everyone.
I wasn't claiming you did. I asked a question, only.
Well I appologise for taking your post the wrong way however with nothing more to give it context I'm sure you can understand how it could be misinterpreted.
(Also I believe your quote is irrelevant to the point made)
The Borg set is being changed so the Borg heal procs are no longer a factor.
Tactical team is due for a change so the shield distribution ability is going to change.
Shield Distribution DOffs/ BFI DOffs are being changed so that shield heal is less of a issue.
Those three changes will have a big effect on the Escorts ability to heal themselves.
{snip}
I do agree that it sucks if reward drops are meant to drop to the highest damage dealer. Rewards should be random for everyone.
Personally, I am happy about these changes... and await the other changes as well. I do believe there is room in the game to allow multiple styles... and multiple roles in a mission. I am all for breaking the tanking ability of the escort... I mothballed a Sci toon a while back, because quite frankly (as others have pointed out) he was irrelevant. Actually thought of renaming him Captain Dunsel.
Truth be told, I prefered playing the Sci toon over the Tac. Playing a tac, is really a point and shoot (no offense meant to anyone who enjoys that). When I played the Sci/Healer... I did what damage I could, but watchmed my team... were they under the effect of anything I could lessen, do they need a shield/hull heal... we're all converging on the Tac Cube... fire off a scattering field... Roach is firing up APA, CRF, and THY... target his target and sensor scan. That Tac Cube/Gateway is firing up FAW.. sub nuc
To me it took more thought... and action to play a sci well.
How do we make the cruisers job fun I'n a
Unfun role
Instead of doing away with cross healing I propose
This
All non cruiser ships get reduced amounts of repair
For healing say 50% less
Long range healing rates for everyone uses dimished
Returns range 9-10 ,10% of normal heal rate
Range 8-9 20%
range. 7-8 30%
range. 6-7 40%
range. 5-6 50%
range. 4-5 60%
range. 3-4. 70%
range. 2-3. 80%
range. 1-2. 100%
Healing rate for cruisers are the full amount all ranges
Change extend shields to make a circle around the
Cruiser like sensor scan about 4km I'n diameter
Any ship I'n the circle gets protection from the shield
Plus increased shield recharge and hull repair aboard
Their ship
I'n pve this would make cruisers a flagship where
All other ships come for repairs
Something like this would increase the fun factor
I'n cruisers a great deal and make cruisers a valuable
Part of the pve team
The extended shields should be a solid object stopping
Fighters, warp plasma , plasma leach boarding partys and any other ranged
Effect that is attached to your ship when you enter
The extended shields ........
Also a Engineer I'n a cruiser should get a more effective
Extend shields as part of his passive traits but that has to be
Linked to cruiser ships only
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
For the love of gods, Cryptic. Please put the PVP crowd into their own sandbox so they don't pee in ours. The constantly fluctuating performance and behavior of abilities and equipment, the constant complaining about this or that being "OP", is not something that I see PVE players involved in and yet we are paying the price. PVP and PVE are fundamentally different animals, and will remain so as long as the AI behaves nothing like a player does, so please do not approach balance as though the same rules apply to both. They don't.
please do not approach balance as though the same rules apply to both. They don't.
But they CAN if they change the balancing procedure from balancing PvE and hoping PvP will work to balancing PvP and then building PvE on top of that balance thereby allowing both play aspects play by the same rules, but naturally nobody takes a step back to look at this from that angle...
Here's the catch. PvP in this game is too underutilized. There are no real incentives for players to PvP other than for a chance to fight other players.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
But they CAN if they change the balancing procedure from balancing PvE and hoping PvP will work to balancing PvP and then building PvE on top of that balance thereby allowing both play aspects play by the same rules, but naturally nobody takes a step back to look at this from that angle...
Not without completely redesigning the game from the bottom up.
You see guys here is the root of all balance issues within this game from pvp to pve to everything else. Cryptic makes so many various changes and additions to the game for typically a good reason but without giving any thought to the possible unintended consequences to things that they did not wish to change.
From the fleet system completely changing the doff economy to the change of Sci abilities from exotic damage types to kinetic. It has happened so many times I have lost count.
They lack a single go-to big picture guy who is actually in touch with the various details of the game and it really shows.
"- Cross-healing is actually one of the main reasons that Sci looks so weak and undesireable, as the effect of Sci abilities can't even remotely compete with potential healing." Umm what?? my hazard emitters III are doin 19760 hit points over 15 sec`s. Yup, sci`s can`t heal at all, i`m not gonna even mention any other skills since this is enough said about how sci is not great healer !
Comments
Good post.
Since I've pretty much made my position sufficiently clear already, I will follow suit and listen to others first too now, as a re-hash would indeed likely end in a re-clash.
I too think something should be done. I just don't think taking away healing others in space is the way to go, is all. But I'll leave the verdict on it to future historians. One thing is for certain, it will be an interesting day to see what Cryptic will come up with.
And after such a graceful response, watch cryptic do... Absolutely nothing.
The irony is, if they did actually do something, they'd likely boost cruiser defense, while reducing it's offense even further. Perhaps with an innate bonus and deficit. Of course they could do the opposite with escorts, but in the end, it really wouldn't change much, and the lack of cross healing would basically neuter diversity in STFs and fleet missions.
I often swap to a healer/CC role for starbase assault because I find it quite enjoyable with the huge # of players, compared to my usual dps role I take in STFs.
Ironically, my engineer in an escort can tank all this stuff without cross healing so it doesn't really change anything. It took me almost 30 minutes to solo a tac cube in ISE but I managed to do it in an Armitage.
Probably could have done so with my tac, but I'd have been shooting and scooting. My Engineer never had to run, though it was close a few times.
What this really is, or seems to me, is a veiled PvP rant where cross-healing can easily trump the opposition because they lack team coordination.
Sure, we can probably all of us agree that the very idea that I can magically regenerate my wingman's hull from a distance of 5k away is not terribly Trek. That I can regenerate my own hull, okay -- screwier things have happened in Trek -- but distance heals not so much.
Same thing for waving a tricorder around and healing my BOFF's disruptor burn from 10 meters away.
That said, this is a game. And it's meant to be a multiplayer social-type game at that. On top of that, it's the only game Cryptic is involved with where that kind of healing doesn't quite fit the genre.
Without that kind of healing, combat would be very Trek indeed.
Zap! "Jim, he's dead!"
Zap! "Captain! We're losing containment --" BOOM.
Yeah, a lot of hardcore players wouldn't mind playing that game. But would it work for the majority? The people that probably expect those heal powers to work the way they do, to be able to stay in the fight a little bit longer?
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
*Offers outstretched hand*
Good Game.
Even if a bit short.
//
Yes, I considered this "sports". A duel of wits. And meimeitoo didn't come unarmed, which I can respect. In real life, this would be the time to offer to continue the discussion over a beer.
Let's be honest, if you make a proposal that's cutting deep into the status quo, you have to expect a backlash, often a hefty one. And there's no other option that to make a stand and weather it until someone steps in as the voice of reason to end it.
Afterwards ... that is, if it didn't totally turn into a flamewar ... the hostilities are over, people can take a step back - and actually argue the topic.
*hands out virtual beer to meimeitoo, bluegeek and bludagger*
//
Thank you for being the voice of reason.
This is a good post to get back to topic.
Actually: this is not a veiled PvP rant - but yes, the issue is a lot more important in PvP than in PvE, which we all basically agree is too easy.
So let's get the PvE side sorted before we move to PvP:
- Cross-healing isn't needed in PvE - I never said it was. Zerking works perfectly fine, especially with P2W ships that take ages to actually die (unless one- or two-shot :P)
- Cross-healing is a problem in PvE still, because the option exists - and so there's a need to balance it.
- The only thing even remotely balancing against crosshealing is the insane burst-damage the mobs in eSTF and some fleet content can dish out. Burst that can, in extreme cases, even one-shot the most tanky ships.
- IMHO, this is not a good mechanic.
- And even worse, unless someone (either us, the comunity, or Cryptic themselves) comes up with a way to defuse that issue, it's not going to get better for future content.
So there's basically two solutions:
- Either they balance the general damage output of NPC so that content requires dedicated healers to complete,
- Or they get rid of cross-healing to allow for more sane threats,
- Or any content will be a joke for an optimized group, and probably still too hard for many randoms. I don't count this as a "solution".
The first option plays to the dedicated, hardcore players.
The second option plays to the weekend-Kirks.
So much for PvE.
In PvP it looks a lot more dire.
- Cross-healing is the key to victory in PvP.
- This requires a lot of coordination, practice and good setups.
- Which makes PvP pretty much completely inaccessible for the casual crowd.
- And even for many potentially good players, as they lack the practiced and coordinated team.
- It's the main reason that PvP in this game is pretty much dead, at least public PvP.
- (yes, I know, the dedicated PvP fleets are running private matches - but this actually makes things worse, since it means there's even fewer people to fill queues, again making PvP less accessible for interested newcomers.)
- The problem that cross-healing poses in PvP is so big that Cryptic has started nerfs targeted at it - nerfs that have just as much of an impact on PvE, threatening to break whole classes of ships.
- Cross-healing is actually one of the main reasons that Sci looks so weak and undesireable, as the effect of Sci abilities can't even remotely compete with potential healing.
Getting rid of cross-healing would:
- level the playing field for newcomers,
- revitalizing PvP
- and be a huge indirect buff to Sci abilities without a need to make them overpowered.
...
- and, of course, be a huge nerf to the established PvP fleet, who can field the required coordination and practice.
(I know you're fine with that part of the status quo. Unfortunately, if you cling to it, you're hurting the game as a whole. Would it be so bad to lose some of your edge?)
I don't know it this is the best way to do things.
But I'm pretty sure that the dynamics of this game would still be interesting without cross-healing,
And I'm also pretty sure that it would help quite a few aspects of the game.
That's why I made this proposal.
If anyone has a better idea, I'll support that one instead.
I'll agree that healing -- or any other form of buff/defense -- should count for something.
Cryptic only has two ways that they can reduce the healing abilities of escorts.
1. Change the abilities themselves, so that they heal less.
2. Restrict the availability of power slots to those abilities.
#1 doesn't fly because even if it's technically possible for a healing power to recognize that it's being activated from an escort (which I'll bet it is not), Cryptic isn't going to want to change an ability's effectiveness to be situational. From their viewpoint, that ability should work the same way for everybody, in any ship, in PvP and in PvE.
#2 is a bit better in that you CAN target escorts with that doctrine. But only by using the sledgehammer. You can restrict the number of Engineering and Science slots available, but then that targets all of those abilities and not just the heals.
It's just not that easy to solve under the status quo, I'm afraid.
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They could probably give all escorts a resistance vs heals, thus making heals less effective on escorts so that they need heals more often to get the same amount of damage control.
Assuming a resist on heals is even possible in the current iteration of code.
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Whoever is interested may visit tribble to find the following:
* new and exctiting ground mission
* retro borg set been split into 3 pieces
* no longer 3 set borg as of console + deflector + engine gives hull heal, shield heal
* console will now form new set with dbb and torp
* some reman/omega stuff...
and an icing on the cake that elite stfs are rewarding 400 dil per run.
so lemme sum it up for ye:
* you gonna die more often
* there will be no dil
I assume this is done in order to encourage sci/eng support to heal teammates and to remove the self healing escort out of the game, but we all know that there are more competent escorts than competent cruisers.
Most I'm just unhappy with, but the red is just heartbreaking... absolutely no reason for me to run STFs after this , unless an alternative way of getting dilithium is put in place.
we shud've seen it coming since S6 content kinda got no dil rewards whatsoever.
I assume that "monetization designers" dream of how they can introduce "premium ammunition" into STO so they can charge for each pew pew that we do in game... however as intellect limited as they come they see that:
* ground engine is buggy as hell and about 7 years old by now
* space engine is passable
* overall network engine suffers from LAG and underdevelopment
so from business perspective this game is a lost cause. The only thing left here is to milk the game for what its worth.
Welcome to how the game was pre-F2P. Cruisers were incredible self -healers, sci ships were shield tanks, escorts were speedy burst damage ships but had poor healing.
But the game has been turned to TRIBBLE. Abandon any hope of any semblance of balance...the devs only care about pushing sales and sales are pushed by click=high reward (insta super healing, insta super damage, etc).
Also, this isn't WoW in space, if it can't or wouldn't appear in a Star Trek movie/series then it shouldn't be in the game.
There is no realism. Trinity play is not realistic. Realistic are ships with weapon systems that make them individually capable, used in a battle group or fleet of vessels with different capabilities that complement over all mission capability.
Everyone wants to be the hero. Everyone wants to be the most valuable asset. Most do not want to be just the healer or just the big moving target while someone else does all the damage. I've never once seen a carrier Captain say "I will take my ship into the middle of that enemy fleet while that hospital ship repairs me and all you destroyers shoot them.
Most nerf QQ comes from players whining about balance. Most of the time the real issue is they aren't the hero or center of attention so they complain when they don't get what they want, others buy in, and a perfectly good game component gets squashed.
Every ship should be equally survive able. Canonically, star ships were designed for self sufficiency and able to serve a 5 year mission with support only needed in the worst of cases.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
I know I'm re-opening this and it's likely a bad idea but I did have an idea as to how to reduce healing on escorts by changing the skills without reducing them.
I expect the current system is heal X amount on this skill, add mods...
All well and good until you make this viable on high hp and then use on low hp so here is the suggested modification to this:
Heal X percentage of max hp, add mods...
This allows you to make the percentage viable for high hp and use it on low hp to the same effectiveness. problem solved
R.I.P
That's not what I said in any way, shape or form, the issue I highlighted was that with healing set up for high hp ships (has to be to make it noticeable) as a given figure rather than percentage makes that same heal far more effective on a low HP ship.
It's not escort healing hate at all, it's simply regulating the effectiveness of heals so that it has the same effectiveness on any ship.
P.S. I thought it was a bad idea reopening this one...
Already happening.
The Borg set is being changed so the Borg heal procs are no longer a factor.
Tactical team is due for a change so the shield distribution ability is going to change.
Shield Distribution DOffs/ BFI DOffs are being changed so that shield heal is less of a issue.
Those three changes will have a big effect on the Escorts ability to heal themselves.
I do find it funny though how many seem to think the Escort has some special heal ability that puts them above the Cruiser.
The Escort players have merely figured out how to best defend themselves using abilities that any player can employ. Only ApO is a partially escort only defense.
Any Cruiser can run TT, cycle EPTx or used the Borg set and BFI DOffs to help thier defense.
I do agree that it sucks if reward drops are meant to drop to the highest damage dealer. Rewards should be random for everyone.
R.I.P
I wasn't claiming you did. I asked a question, only.
R.I.P
Well I appologise for taking your post the wrong way however with nothing more to give it context I'm sure you can understand how it could be misinterpreted.
(Also I believe your quote is irrelevant to the point made)
Personally, I am happy about these changes... and await the other changes as well. I do believe there is room in the game to allow multiple styles... and multiple roles in a mission. I am all for breaking the tanking ability of the escort... I mothballed a Sci toon a while back, because quite frankly (as others have pointed out) he was irrelevant. Actually thought of renaming him Captain Dunsel.
Truth be told, I prefered playing the Sci toon over the Tac. Playing a tac, is really a point and shoot (no offense meant to anyone who enjoys that). When I played the Sci/Healer... I did what damage I could, but watchmed my team... were they under the effect of anything I could lessen, do they need a shield/hull heal... we're all converging on the Tac Cube... fire off a scattering field... Roach is firing up APA, CRF, and THY... target his target and sensor scan. That Tac Cube/Gateway is firing up FAW.. sub nuc
To me it took more thought... and action to play a sci well.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
I still hope they bring the ideas of Heavy Beam, the new beam BOff abilities discussed and a turn buff to C/BC in game though.
R.I.P
How do we make the cruisers job fun I'n a
Unfun role
Instead of doing away with cross healing I propose
This
All non cruiser ships get reduced amounts of repair
For healing say 50% less
Long range healing rates for everyone uses dimished
Returns range 9-10 ,10% of normal heal rate
Range 8-9 20%
range. 7-8 30%
range. 6-7 40%
range. 5-6 50%
range. 4-5 60%
range. 3-4. 70%
range. 2-3. 80%
range. 1-2. 100%
Healing rate for cruisers are the full amount all ranges
Change extend shields to make a circle around the
Cruiser like sensor scan about 4km I'n diameter
Any ship I'n the circle gets protection from the shield
Plus increased shield recharge and hull repair aboard
Their ship
I'n pve this would make cruisers a flagship where
All other ships come for repairs
Something like this would increase the fun factor
I'n cruisers a great deal and make cruisers a valuable
Part of the pve team
The extended shields should be a solid object stopping
Fighters, warp plasma , plasma leach boarding partys and any other ranged
Effect that is attached to your ship when you enter
The extended shields ........
Also a Engineer I'n a cruiser should get a more effective
Extend shields as part of his passive traits but that has to be
Linked to cruiser ships only
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
For the love of gods, Cryptic. Please put the PVP crowd into their own sandbox so they don't pee in ours. The constantly fluctuating performance and behavior of abilities and equipment, the constant complaining about this or that being "OP", is not something that I see PVE players involved in and yet we are paying the price. PVP and PVE are fundamentally different animals, and will remain so as long as the AI behaves nothing like a player does, so please do not approach balance as though the same rules apply to both. They don't.
But they CAN if they change the balancing procedure from balancing PvE and hoping PvP will work to balancing PvP and then building PvE on top of that balance thereby allowing both play aspects play by the same rules, but naturally nobody takes a step back to look at this from that angle...
Not without completely redesigning the game from the bottom up.
You see guys here is the root of all balance issues within this game from pvp to pve to everything else. Cryptic makes so many various changes and additions to the game for typically a good reason but without giving any thought to the possible unintended consequences to things that they did not wish to change.
From the fleet system completely changing the doff economy to the change of Sci abilities from exotic damage types to kinetic. It has happened so many times I have lost count.
They lack a single go-to big picture guy who is actually in touch with the various details of the game and it really shows.