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STO's end does not concern me-Nerf to Dilth grinding does

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  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    The intentions of the daily are to play 3 foundry missions, not click 3 consoles for a quick exploit. Granted, the time gate isn't implemented well, since it's nearly impossible to play 3 actually foundry missions in one hour.

    Yes, this is going away IF the NW's new foundry rewards system is implemented. How it works: You get a reward based on the average playtime of the mission.

    Goodbye console clickers and good riddance. I'm sorry if this angers the dilithium grinders who exploit the Foundry while clogging up the "hot" list.

    But, it's great for the Foundry community. You guys might actually play our missions and discover that there are some great stories in this game.

    Well i do know a guy in my KDF fleet - he runs a FED fleet as well - he has 2 accounts 1 with 39 characters the other with 15 - he does the daily and lore for each every day - plus some other stuff. so 54 charaters x 1920 dilth = 103680 dilth per day + the other contraband he turns over I think he gets 150,000+ dilth per day.

    Don't ask what he does with all of it - i don't know and I don't want to ask him - I don't see him putting colloasal amounts into the KDF starbase so maybe his Fed base? I don't have a clue what you could do with 1000 zen per day every day.

    it take him avg of 4 min per toon - so 4 min x 54 = basically 4 hrs + the other stuff I would say 5 hrs per day for 1000 zen - still cheap labour as 1000 zen is $10 so that's only $2 an hour
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    OK, well rereading this stuff further, it may not be that NW's system is coming to STO. Instead they are developing something specifically for STO as a temporary fix, unless these quotes are just too old to be reliable.



    Other statements from Dan:

    June Ask Cryptic
    We have always wanted to find the right way to offer rewards for Foundry missions without leading to abuse of the reward system. Our temporary solution is to start featuring Foundry content similar to what you?ve been seeing in the in-game bulletins as the Foundry Spotlight. Based on the success we?ve had with this low budget form of promoting Foundry missions, we plan to make it a full blown feature in the Mission Journal. By doing so, Foundry Spotlight missions will be setup similar to how Feature Episodes are promoted within the Journal. This will allow us to attach premium rewards to specific player made content that is being featured. This also allows us to prevent abuse of the reward system, while rewarding high quality player-built missions with excellent rewards so that players have even more incentives to play them. There are some technical features required in order to make this happen, but we have already started the ball rolling to get this in shortly after Season 6 releases.

    July Ask Cryptic:
    The rewards that will be offered will be done via a secondary mission, which Cryptic controls, rewarding players upon successful completion of a specific Foundry mission. The reward will be similar to the types of rewards that you receive from Episodes in that they will potentially grant numerics as well as items appropriately scaled to the Foundry mission.

    August Ask Cryptic:
    In addition to being able to flag specific missions for rewards, we also will be looking into the ability to ?copy and freeze? specific Foundry missions so we can do exactly what you are describing. We will maintain the credits/tips for the author, while giving us a safe copy that isn?t subject to the author revising it further.

    Sept Ask Cryptic
    The Foundry development team is currently working on the Spotlight feature and they are expected to hand it over to the STO team for implementation in our UI later this month, so my estimate is that you?ll see it in game either end of September or into October. Discussions are still ongoing as to which features STO will be able to port over after NW launches, so there is no ETA at this time as they are still developing the Foundry features for NW.

    I didn't see anything when scanning the latest Ask Cryptic.

    Also, there is now a new button on a published Foundry mission that says something like "Submit this mission."
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    The intentions of the daily are to play 3 foundry missions, not click 3 consoles for a quick exploit. Granted, the time gate isn't implemented well, since it's nearly impossible to play 3 actual foundry missions in one hour.

    Yes, this is going away IF the NW's new foundry rewards system is implemented. How it works: You get a reward based on the average playtime of the mission.

    Goodbye console clickers and good riddance. I'm sorry if this angers the dilithium grinders who exploit the Foundry while clogging up the "hot" list.

    But, it's great for the Foundry community. You guys might actually play our missions and discover that there are some great stories in this game.

    I agree that the console clicking does take way from the foundry, since it doesn't encourage people to play it.

    But at the same time, I feel bad too. Because Cryptic has ruined everything with the Dilithium system in that some people are being forced to console click, because they don't want to spend all their casual time doing nothing but Dilithium grind to buy new equipment from the in-game stores. (Not talking C-store).

    And its this grinding that is also causing people to leave because it's not fun and they are playing games to have fun.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I agree that the console clicking does take way from the foundry, since it doesn't encourage people to play it.

    But at the same time, I feel bad too. Because Cryptic has ruined everything with the Dilithium system in that some people are being forced to console click, because they don't want to spend all their casual time doing nothing but Dilithium grind to buy new equipment from the in-game stores. (Not talking C-store).

    And its this grinding that is also causing people to leave because it's not fun and they are playing games to have fun.

    There are pros and cons to the coming dilth nerf. There are people like my friend/fleet mate who are definitely taking the tern to new exploit highs - but I don't know how wide spread this is and if it is really hurting sales. It is clear that Cryptic/PWE want to milk the game for as much money as possible, which is understandable as it is a business. I just don't know if the amount of people stop playing because of this will be compensated for by more people buying zen to covert to dilth.

    Like I said those people who are now converting to LTS will kind of be locked in so if Cryptic does make these changes they came up with a pretty good way to insure that a lot of pissed off players will not quit but just rant instead. And they really don't care about players ranting on the forums - they have gotten use to that.

    Again I post the video of what you can expect when contacting customer service:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UDnTJcjPhY&feature=related
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    There are pros and cons to the coming dilth nerf. There are people like my friend/fleet mate who are definitely taking the tern to new exploit highs - but I don't know how wide spread this is and if it is really hurting sales. It is clear that Cryptic/PWE want to milk the game for as much money as possible, which is understandable as it is a business. I just don't know if the amount of people stop playing because of this will be compensated for by more people buying zen to covert to dilth.

    Like I said those people who are now converting to LTS will kind of be locked in so if Cryptic does make these changes they came up with a pretty good way to insure that a lot of pissed off players will not quit but just rant instead. And they really don't care about players ranting on the forums - they have gotten use to that.

    Again I post the video of what you can expect when contacting customer service:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UDnTJcjPhY&feature=related

    Gawd, don't I know how useless their Customer Support is. It honestly is the worst CSR that I ever experienced in all the MMOs I played in the last 12 years. I had better dealings with Sony of all people.

    Anyhow with Cryptic / PW Milking people, the thing that ires people the most is we aren't seeing a return on that money. Season 6, was being expected to be something major with some returns from that investment, and what we get? A ton of bugs (which most are still yet to be resolved), more grinding, and more money sinks.

    If Season 7 doesn't show a major return, then people will start walking away from STO.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012

    If Season 7 doesn't show a major return, then people will start walking away from STO.

    Hence the Juicey LTS sale/offer currently under way - it will lock a heck of a lot of players in no matter what intentions/changes are planned.
  • game5pockgame5pock Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If Cryptic takes away a mission that awards 1440 Dilithium and is on a 20 hr cooldown, they won't find me playing "Labor Camp Online" anymore.
  • commanderkassycommanderkassy Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    I think 90% of the players probably do the daily officer reports as a "quckie" - So a lot of players will be affected by this change.

    And Like I said do they have any other dilth nerfs in mind as well?

    It's not necessarily an exploit (they would have swatted it already if they thought so), but it's definitely not working as intended. Everyone who does it knows this. Any change would effectively be a fix. That said, the Foundry is completely useless and utterly bereft of entertainment beyond dilithium, so *shrug*
    ♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
    It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    the Foundry is completely useless and utterly bereft of entertainment beyond dilithium, so *shrug*

    Thank you for that tidbit of encouragement. These types of comments totally inspire me to keep making content for all the lovely and friendly players like you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    Thank you for that tidbit of encouragement. These types of comments totally inspire me to keep making content for all the lovely and friendly players like you.



    who cares about people like him, if you like it do it.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • thetruthurtsthetruthurts Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    Thank you for that tidbit of encouragement. These types of comments totally inspire me to keep making content for all the lovely and friendly players like you.

    The only reason that comment would dampen your enthusiasm is if you actually believed that commanderkassy speaks for everyone.
  • targpetz101targpetz101 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    Thank you for that tidbit of encouragement. These types of comments totally inspire me to keep making content for all the lovely and friendly players like you.

    Aw, kirkplat, she was talking about your missions. She was talking about that knucklehead Kirkfat. :D
    [SIGPIC]This is not as good as it used to be...[/SIGPIC]
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    Hence the Juicey LTS sale/offer currently under way - it will lock a heck of a lot of players in no matter what intentions/changes are planned.

    Oh well the game may close down in 2 or 3 years from today now. Pay to win games aren't popular and tend to get bad advertisement on the internet. As soon as you see those words repetedly on the forums you know for sure the game is doomed if nothing changes quickly. That's a hard fact, it happened to many other games. Once people start to get fed up with that way to monetize the game (OP ships, 'I win' ground equipment, special consoles), they'll leave.

    Many of my fleetmates started to leave for the reasons I mentionned, they're back from time to time, but their STO time is... over. There's no passion anymore and they probably won't come back. One of them was a huge pvp fan, he got sick of pay to win ships, the other one is a LTS, and there are many others. So, yes, LTS and long-term players can and do leave if the game gets bad. The IP can't save a game if people consider it's taking the wrong way.

    No one is trapped, a LTS means nothing, why should we play a game where the biggest wallet wins without any sense of fair play and competition? Bad monetization design make people quit, nothing can prevent that.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    diogene0 wrote: »
    Oh well the game may close down in 2 or 3 years from today now. Pay to win games aren't popular and tend to get bad advertisement on the internet. As soon as you see those words repetedly on the forums you know for sure the game is doomed if nothing changes quickly. That's a hard fact, it happened to many other games. Once people start to get fed up with that way to monetize the game (OP ships, 'I win' ground equipment, special consoles), they'll leave.

    Many of my fleetmates started to leave for the reasons I mentionned, they're back from time to time, but their STO time is... over. There's no passion anymore and they probably won't come back. One of them was a huge pvp fan, he got sick of pay to win ships, the other one is a LTS, and there are many others. So, yes, LTS and long-term players can and do leave if the game gets bad. The IP can't save a game if people consider it's taking the wrong way.

    No one is trapped, a LTS means nothing, why should we play a game where the biggest wallet wins without any sense of fair play and competition? Bad monetization design make people quit, nothing can prevent that.

    I was not suggesting that LTS would not quit, I was just putting forth the idea that many of the people who buy the sale won't leave for awhile if Cryptic brings down the Dilth nerf hammer next month. Hence the sale generates a big 1 time boon to keep things going a little longer and makes many more players "feel" locked in for the time being once the changes take place.

    Besides don't you think that a player who has multiple alts and runs them all would not be jumping at the LTS which makes creating and maintaining there alt hord easier. So they think they got away with murder and can continue to farm dilth away on all their alts - with their new LTS - then Cryptic pulls the rug out on quick dilth grinding - bam!! - gotcha!

    Or is this just my crazy thoughts and Cryptic would not have this in mind?
  • red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    Thank you for that tidbit of encouragement. These types of comments totally inspire me to keep making content for all the lovely and friendly players like you.

    Don't listen to him. Some people (e.g. me) are very glad the Foundry is there and have played some great missions on it. Unfortunately a lot of people come to MMOs to essentially get "carrots," as the predominant metaphor goes. Unless they get a "goodie" they don't see it as a worthwhile activity - the "get stuff" part of their brain is, apparently, what is tickled with an MMO. On the other hand, others find the game enjoyable in and of itself.

    For various reasons I have not been able to do much Foundry stuff lately, but I look forward to being able to engage the missions more frequently in the near future.
  • syberghostsyberghost Member Posts: 1,711 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Because Cryptic has ruined everything with the Dilithium system in that some people are being forced to console click, because they don't want to spend all their casual time doing nothing but Dilithium grind to buy new equipment from the in-game stores.

    "They don't want" and "are being forced" are mutually exclusive. If you make a choice, you own the consequences.

    You can CHOOSE not to console click. There are a number of avenues available to you to avoid it. It would be in your best interest to familiarize yourself with them, because the console clicks will be going away at some point.
    Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    syberghost wrote: »
    the console clicks will be going away at some point.

    I'm not sure we've had an official dev statement on that. Have we?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thetruthurtsthetruthurts Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    syberghost wrote: »
    ...because the console clicks will be going away at some point.

    I hope so, but there has been absolutely no official statement even suggesting that.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    Besides don't you think that a player who has multiple alts and runs them all would not be jumping at the LTS which makes creating and maintaining there alt hord easier. So they think they got away with murder and can continue to farm dilth away on all their alts - with their new LTS - then Cryptic pulls the rug out on quick dilth grinding - bam!! - gotcha!

    Or is this just my crazy thoughts and Cryptic would not have this in mind?

    But why would you need dilithium since credits will get you the best pay to win items? It's far easier to make 5-6M a day without much work. And you can do that without maintaining dozens of alts. One char is enough.

    Of course a dil nerf will affect most players since it will be harder to get the most basic pay to win stuff from the c-store but as an advanced player with some knowledge about the game you shouldn't be affected by such a change. Unless of course the omega fleet eats all our dil in season 7. :rolleyes:
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • skhcskhc Member Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    The primary way they intend to do this is to remove the quickie "investgate officer daily reports" - you will still be able to do them just they will remove the capacity to go to a panel and do all 3 in just a minute or 2.

    So they're just closing off an exploit then?

    The HORROR!
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I hope so, but there has been absolutely no official statement even suggesting that.

    I'd like to see the bear market movements from any announcement like that! :D


    "Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.

    Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!

    Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If they're taking out an exploit, the folks who use it can't cry foul without being... well, er,

    It's like screaming at the convenience store clerk for installing anti-theft devices so that you can't continue to steal candy bars.

    Are you console clickers really going to scream at the cashier?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • hravikhravik Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If you dont care how long it takes, then you wont mind it taking you longer after they fix this exploit ;)

    Considering I don't use the foundry at all, let alone for farming...yeah. Reading comprehension, get some.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    syberghost wrote: »
    "They don't want" and "are being forced" are mutually exclusive. If you make a choice, you own the consequences.

    You can CHOOSE not to console click. There are a number of avenues available to you to avoid it. It would be in your best interest to familiarize yourself with them, because the console clicks will be going away at some point.

    Eveeryone who has their ear to the ground so to speak knows it's coming. And it may not be the only one. But you have at least until the LTS sale is done and most likely until Season 7 launches - which could be the same week - to click away.

    Bottom line is that over the next little while Cryptic is going to throw down the soap and if you want to keep playing your just going to have to bend over and pick it up.
  • born2bwild1born2bwild1 Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    Eveeryone who has their ear to the ground so to speak knows it's coming. And it may not be the only one. But you have at least until the LTS sale is done and most likely until Season 7 launches - which could be the same week - to click away.

    Bottom line is that over the next little while Cryptic is going to throw down the soap and if you want to keep playing your just going to have to bend over and pick it up.

    Well what ever they do - I for one won't be playing their game if they continue to toss the soap on the floor of the prison shower and ask me to pick it up.
  • captainmerzancaptainmerzan Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    tobar26th wrote: »
    In fairness, if they nerf what is essentially to I suspect 95-99% of the playerbase, an exploit of the system I don't mind.


    Well I do, I mean I use the quickies to grab dilithium, and it'd be a shame to lose that - but I can totally understand it.

    Now if they nerf the amount of Dilithium from STFs, Mirror Events, PVP etc etc, then I'd encourage people to be upset.

    all ya'll doing is mtalking about this exploit but think on it its only what 1,400 that far from an exploit and if they do this it will only push people away from the foundry at all, and in all honesty if they take away this small help which benifits a small amount for star bases and small fleet i beleave its very small minded of them, so think on it befor you act and before you in the comunity complain.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    If they're taking out an exploit, the folks who use it can't cry foul without being... well, er,

    It's like screaming at the convenience store clerk for installing anti-theft devices so that you can't continue to steal candy bars.

    Are you console clickers really going to scream at the cashier?

    Well, I think they ought to add a 1440 Dilithium "Thanks for logging in!" mission or maybe reassign that to the Fleet officer of the Watch daily. The reward there feels a bit anemic and if they closed the exploit of "Investigate Officer Reports", I think it would be great to reassign that dilithium reward to the Fleet daily. Which is almost a clicker but does involve going somewhere and doing some variety of task.
  • markarichmarkarich Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    No it won't - from watching it for 9 months and watching the stock market for 20 years - I can say will strong confidence that i believe they are already in there keeping the price consant and stable by addind dilth when need be. Over the last few weeks the dilth market has not budged 1 or 2 points a day and there have been hundreds of thousand of dilth on both the buy and the ask. The last lock box only moved it out of it's fixed range for a very short time.

    It is clear that it is being manipulate - my bet is on Cryptic and not some players because the movement up or down is almost non existant. And just like the Federal reserve printing money - Crptic is the only ones that can just "print" dilth out of nothing.

    As an aside, you are absolutely right about this. They also manipulate prices on the exchange. I've seen them do it clearly in the rare data sample market. If the price on a particular rare data sample gets too high they will inject several samples at a much lower price. If prices in the rare data sample market, in general, are too high, they will mass drop multiple different samples at ridiculously low prices. These get almost instantly bought up and re-sold at much lower prices than current market.
    If you want to make a ton of EC very quickly, hang around the exchange and keep close watch on the rare data samples everyday around crafting hour. That is when a good portion of the deus ex machina sample drops occur. All of a sudden you'll see a lot of 7 Methogenic particle traces(normally selling at around 90,000-100,000 EC) appear for sale for 3 EC. When u see this wait around, there'll be even more deals dropping soon.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    markarich wrote: »
    As an aside, you are absolutely right about this. They also manipulate prices on the exchange. I've seen them do it clearly in the rare data sample market. If the price on a particular rare data sample gets too high they will inject several samples at a much lower price. If prices in the rare data sample market, in general, are too high, they will mass drop multiple different samples at ridiculously low prices. These get almost instantly bought up and re-sold at much lower prices than current market.
    If you want to make a ton of EC very quickly, hang around the exchange and keep close watch on the rare data samples everyday around crafting hour. That is when a good portion of the deus ex machina sample drops occur. All of a sudden you'll see a lot of 7 Methogenic particle traces(normally selling at around 90,000-100,000 EC) appear for sale for 3 EC. When u see this wait around, there'll be even more deals dropping soon.

    You could check the hypothetical item exchange fixing. When you buy those, you get a mail telling you what you purchased and who it's from.

    Although my suspicion is that it's goldfarmers who bot posting this stuff automatically at optimal times for a quick sale.
  • sekritagentsekritagent Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    game5pock wrote: »
    If Cryptic takes away a mission that awards 1440 Dilithium and is on a 20 hr cooldown, they won't find me playing "Labor Camp Online" anymore.

    Yep, same here. Lifetime or not.
    Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard? :(
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