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Someone explain the logic behind this to me PLEASE.
hereticknight085
Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
I was reading up on the Patch notes (since I just got kicked from the server anyways by said patch), and I came upon this.
"Emergency Power to Shields has been added to the cooldown category shared by Extend Shields and Reverse Shield Polarity."
What.
The.
#$%&.
So shield tanking is not allowed anymore? That used to be a viable anti-burst survival method. EPtS + RSP/ES + TT1. Um. HELLO???
Soooo... yeeeah. WTF????
"Emergency Power to Shields has been added to the cooldown category shared by Extend Shields and Reverse Shield Polarity."
What.
The.
#$%&.
So shield tanking is not allowed anymore? That used to be a viable anti-burst survival method. EPtS + RSP/ES + TT1. Um. HELLO???
Soooo... yeeeah. WTF????
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. 
Post edited by hereticknight085 on
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Ridiculous hyperbole aside, it brings the shield powers more in line to their intended purposes.
Anti-Burst survival method: RSP. It's a panic button. That's what you hit when you're getting hit with massive spike damage.
EPtS is more along the lines of sustained shield tanking.
You can still shield tank, you just can't stack the deck in your favor anymore by firing every possible shield power at once.
You also can't focus on helping other people out who are in a tight spot in PvE/PvP with ES as it puts EPtS on a 15 sec cooldown, and EPtS does the same to it and RSP.
Oh, and firing every shield power at once is generally suicidal anyways, as blowing many cooldowns will usually lead to a guaranteed death on your part. Cryptic has kicked the cruisers hard in the genitals this time around.
this affects all ships that use RSP and EPtS...so also escorts will be easier targets. It also diminishes crossheal power, which was the cause for 1 hour PVP matches.
as i see it, those changes do not really affect PVE gameplay as much as PVP. And for PVP it means less durable ships and less crossheal, which is good imho...shortens the matches.
it affects pve gameplay significantly. getting massive amounts of incoming damage it doesn't matter whether it's pve or pvp, shield heals save you...or they did. always stuck EPtS in the ensign slot on every ship because it was the only thing really worthwhile to put there.
now worthless...no...less than worthless because it starts a cd on RSP which is a far better heal that EPtS 1. shield tanking = toast, shield healing an ally = toast.
so you're not seeing things very clearly at all are you? only looking at one aspect, PvP.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
It won't affect pve much, since a good cruiser captain will heal you no matter what.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
BS. hmm, let me count how many heals that have been thrown at me in pugs...while i'm tanking. less than 20. kept my ships alive by shield tanking since torp vs hull torp wins especially in estf's.
don't know what brand of logic you and baudl are smoking...must be the same brand the devs use though. rose colored glasses, everything's fine since the games all about PvP isn't it? pugs always make the perfect team eh? 4 randoms you can rely on...
it's a farce of a nerf and engineers especially gain nothing from it and only lose out.
devs want this game simple, everyone in escorts, everyone a tac.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
I dont believe they do, unfortunatly the game they have created favors escorts and tactical captains.
We all know this game is 95% about the damage you can deal. Until the devs come up with a way to change that tac captains in escorts are going to be the most effective class and ship to play with.
The optional objective in Cure Space was designed to try to make something other than dps useful. Unfortunatly you can simply nuke everything and still complete it. If it were changed so that the Kang started at 50% hull and had to end at over 75% to complete the optional it would be better. However I'm not convinced the programming is available with this game engine to even do something that simple.
you can still run 2 copies of EPtS1 with high efficency...i hardly use rsp during an elite stf anyway and since i tank in my cruiser i do not need ES.
it is true that this game favours DPS, especially the elite stf optionals, but to have a cruiser that can tank the gate and tac cube while escorts hit on it is a huge benefit. That was not affected by the last patch...actually increased since PH and HE are now seperated.
i think the thing we "smoke" is knowledge and experiance of this game. there was a time when nobody used RSP...more than 1 year ago.
the focus clearly shifted now towards hull tanking and i salute that, clearly favours cruisers...even if you disagree on that aswell.
Cruisers with 6+ engi slots were useless before...this patch made it only more obvious.
PS: if you go ahead and balance the endgame PVE content of a game to fit a grp of total ****** players mixed together and expect to finish all objectives than you should be playing hello kitty online or something...because there that is possible.
yes this game wnats you to think about how you equip your ship and what abilities you use. If any build and ability mix would work what kind of motivation do you have to even waste one thought on your ship?
The combo of RSP, EPtS and ES was too strong in team PVP and made PVE laughable easy...atleast for me, and i'm not the only one thinking that.
Bad pugs doesn't mean the game has to be build on low level standards. It's named ELITE for a good reason: the best players will be able to complete the mission. Currently this word is a joke. Anything increasing the challenge is welcome.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
No RSP on escorts is going to hurt escorts, my escort is as tanky as it comes but even sustained fire from a gate on elite requires RSP to stay alive for any length of time. Escorts with no panic button will make a huge difference, the tactical retrofit is a lot more appealing now.
The combined cooldowns for shield skills is a hit to cruiser healing as well, no cruiser needs that much tanking ability in PvE, this is aimed at PvP healing which is over the top.
Science ships will be unaffected mostly, the relaxation of the timers for science skills will make them more viable but their offensive skills still need help.
And yes, most captains in general have no clue how to fly their ship, but cruisers seem to be the worst of them all, doesn't matter if its tactical or engineering.
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No, it doesn't really.
I have a variety of ships, Threat Spec'd Cruisers, Escorts, Sci ship and a Carrier - none of them currently carry RSP for any PvE content in this game.
So your cries of shield tanking being dead for PvE are way, way overblown.
Again, you're completely wrong.
When healing gets a nerf, the class that has the most heals makes out the best.
Engineers have the least to fear from this, and if you felt you needed RSP as an Engineer in a Cruiser - you really need to completely re-evaluate your build and your playstyle.
Will it still trigger recasts on other Emergency powers or just RSP/ET?
Regardless of the answer, I don't think I like this change: the former because there's already too many shared recasts on too few abilities (really kills build diversity); the latter because it's not consistent. Nobody cares about consistency, I know, but I do.
Ultimatum: I used RSP on my Cruisers.
Not because I "needed" it, but by default. The competition in Lieutenant slots is rather weak.
Problem is: this change doesn't merely weaken those abilities, it basically deletes them as everyone uses EPtSx2 (once again, if only by default) or EPtS+damage control engineers. They'll just never be up.
tl;dr: the change probably won't be detrimental to balance, but it will be detrimental to variety.
Edit: Wow, I hadn't read the notes, but this is a big SV buff:
The shared cooldown between Polarize Hull and Hazard Emitters has been removed.
Removed Tachyon Beam and Energy Siphon from shared cooldown formerly shared with Tyken's Rift and Gravity Well.
The latter two will remain on a shared cooldown.
I've advocated just that in the past, so nice to see it happen. Well, personally I would've put GW on its own, left Energy Siphon&TR in the same recast and Tachyon Beam either alone or with Siphon/TR, but close enough.
We'll see if simultaneous Siphon&TR causes issues or not.
That's a fair assessment for the most part.
That being said, Aux to Damps just became much more attractive, as do ships that have hybrid slotting arrangements.
I'm sure in a week or so some build alternatives will start showing up, and a lot of people will realize they don't need RSP as much as they thought they did.
Also, as I said earlier this makes Engineers even better at being tanks.
Yep, will still trigger cooldown on other Emergency powers. A lot of Engineer powers have had their cooldown triggers revamped. I think it makes sense, what they've done.
In regards to gameplay, I think this move has nerfed escorts more than anything else. Yes, cruisers can't tank as well as they used to (yesterday I tanked two borg cubes at the same time no sweat, today one was giving me grief as I wasn't used to seeing those new pesky cooldowns) but escorts, who have limited engineering slots, will be pushed to the limits.
how has this nerfed escorts? , ive never used RSP on one ever and i do perfectly fine, don't think ive ever fought anyone with it on either.
Shield tanking is too strong. They *slightly* nerfed shield tanking as a team while at the same time buffing hull tanking. Do you have an idea of just how easy it will be now to bang against the 75% (or 4x the EHP) hull resist hardcap with these changes and a touch of AUX power?
Bottom line:
Cruisers: less emphasis on shield tank and a giant +1 to hull tanking (sci should be concerned with shield tanking since it has the lowest hull, not a cruiser, that usually has double the hull)
funny how all u whiners omitted the HE and PH part
escorts: same, less shield tank, i do run RSP combo on mine (so OP) and i can clearly see how this will affect the build.
science: if u were running PH u can now stack it (spike dmg defense solution) or just use it as be4, if u weren't using it ... nothing changed.
As for the new sci skills cooldowns... $%^& please! after 8 months of nerfing sci into oblivion what did u expect? there should be a couple more like this for sci by the time the new ships and consoles come (with season7) to even discuss it being competitive again.
this is a start to remedy the imbalance. Stop crying cuz u lost an defensive op build
I love how ignorance can make anyone sound authoritative on a subject. It takes multiple escorts to take down a cruiser. Check the death lists at the end of matches, if the most killed players were not in escorts you're doing it wrong.
If anything the change in CDs are more of an issue for healboat cruisers.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Thankfully. The EPTS/ES shared cooldown looked like it'd be crippling on a support cruiser. If they'd kept this I'd have an infinitely small window at the 15s/45s marks to activate ES without TRIBBLE up my EPTS cooldown synch, or else create gaps in my shield reinforcement and defeat the whole point of being a cruiser. Don't need to PVP to see the problem there. My normal ESTF tactic in my support cruiser was to run dual EPTS2, then toss ES3 on whatever escort caught the big ships' attention. My damage was meh, my speed a joke, but I didn't die, and neither did anyone staying with 7.5km of me. If this idea were to be implemented, I'd have to choose between protecting myself or my teammates, which makes for a pretty lame support tank. Heck if they want to shift to that style, just drop ES altogether and make EPTS targetable, since otherwise ES would be a power that not only doesn't help the caster but actually weakens them besides. Thankfully this is being nipped, but yikes that it even came up.
This was clearly a PvP-related change.
They DO care.
Noted.
Unfortunately, it was a change that broke PvE.
My tank cruisers now have to spent a week in drydock/on shoreleave, as they can't tank for TRIBBLE ('was using RSP a minimum of three times per ESTF to stay alive), while my PvE'scorts were totally unaffected (running EPtS+TSS anyway, which my cruisers can't since they lack sci-slots).
Well, at least they saw reason and are going to undo this mess.
Also noted.
The Aux2Damp change is nice though, as is the Aux2Bat one, these changes buff a couple builds that were formerly a bit sub-par.
Also duely noted.
Let's see what's getting broken next week, shall we? :P
And yes, I read that quote about them taking it back, but still, the fact that THIS is where they started with trying to fix balance shows that they have no flipping idea what they're doing.
Couldn't agree more. This change really hurt ships that had multiple Engi slots - aka cruisers. The average escort has only a Lt. Engineer officer so they lost little-to-nothing from this, but a cruiser with 6 engineering slots to use is suddenly stumped. Trying to rotate EptSs and throw in an RSP or ES is severely hurt. Cruisers and Science ships already suffer enough, this was not a reasonable idea.
I'm glad to see some thinking about balance though, and removing the shared CD on many other lesser-used skills is welcome. Hopefully we'll see better ideas in the future.
The fact its a nightmare to kill is a balance ont he fact that its dps isnt usually something to sing about, just enough to hold aggro, my cruisers tank is rock solid, but the powerdrain of 6 beams plus low dps means all its good for is tanking, whereas escorts should be relativley trivial to nuke down, they have speed and damage, but thats my opinion, the only ship of mine that RSP sees use is my escorts, its the only thing that keeps them alive in stf's.
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