Its not idiot proof with something like borticus mentioned, its worthless. 8 secs after activation is not worth it. at all. 15-20 secs after activation is useful but not overpowered. Thats being said, reduce the percentage, not the duration (at least not completely).
Whats wrong with it being considered a must have? If your concerned about haveing to overcome the ability, use intereupts, photonic shackwave, or anything else with a disable effect, once the power is off so is the resist. I wish folks would learn to adapt more than cry for a nerf so often.
I for one think people should just start carrying more shockwaves. I mean really ES is kind of something you should always keep in mind on the field anyway, and you need a way to knock it off, or kick enemies so far out that they can't get it's benefit (by the way the host ship also loses benefit of the doff if ES is no longer applying via tbr kicks).
The doff, also makes the non oddy cruisers more useful to field as well since they can run 2 higher level engineering slots and have 2 extends. Cryptic loves "balancing" their game through stupid add ons. And really this inadvertantly boosts things like the starcruiser, and Old AC.
Personally I think if any change were to be done, keep it at 20 percent resist, but have it apply for half the duration of ES. That's not terribly OP and the doff will still be useful then. Don't make it some silly proc.
Bort, 10% damage reduction for 8 seconds on ES? Are you serious? Dude NO ONE repeat NO ONE will use this Duty Officer.
This is what it should be.
10% all damage reduction to shields on self while ES on a target for the entire duration unless the player moves out of the range of ES.
There it's balanced. What's so hard about that? Do you guys actually test this stuff or just roll it off the assembly line as fast as possible to make that dollar?
Extremely disappointed in you as a developer and Cryptic staff.
Bort, 10% damage reduction for 8 seconds on ES? Are you serious? Dude NO ONE repeat NO ONE will use this Duty Officer.
This is what it should be.
10% all damage reduction to shields on self while ES on a target for the entire duration unless the player moves out of the range of ES.
There it's balanced. What's so hard about that? Do you guys actually test this stuff or just roll it off the assembly line as fast as possible to make that dollar?
Extremely disappointed in you as a developer and Cryptic staff.
extend shields is already an awesome power as it is now, why should it get that much better with absolutly no downsides?
this is the problem with this game, too many ++'s not enough -'s
The downside is you move out of range you lose the buff. Please read more carefully.
that is not that big of a downside considering what you get.
i dont specificly mean your "change" to the extend shields doff, i mean the extend shields power itself is fairly powerful without a doff added to it and no downside.
i always thought it would make sense if youre extending your shields to someone else your own shields would suffer either in strength (resistances) or in regen power (to represet the power needed to push your shields somewhere else) or a straight up shield power cost to use the power.
right now, the power has no downsides, thats why a lot of premades run with it, this doff in any shape or form only make it that much more "why take anything else" kind of power.
and lets face it, its ownly shared cooldown is rsp, and that is a big "hit me with your snb because i got nothing left" target in games where people know what they are doing. this further makes extend shields a more practical power to take. sure its not good for everyone, escorts for example may need rsp more then extend shields but then this doff wouldnt really change that anyways.
cryptic, stop makeing powers too good, and i mean too good in that there is absolutly no downsides to takeing 99% of the powers in this game. this means theres no thinking required.
that is not that big of a downside considering what you get.
i dont specificly mean your "change" to the extend shields doff, i mean the extend shields power itself is fairly powerful without a doff added to it and no downside.
i always thought it would make sense if youre extending your shields to someone else your own shields would suffer either in strength (resistances) or in regen power (to represet the power needed to push your shields somewhere else) or a straight up shield power cost to use the power.
right now, the power has no downsides, thats why a lot of premades run with it, this doff in any shape or form only make it that much more "why take anything else" kind of power.
and lets face it, its ownly shared cooldown is rsp, and that is a big "hit me with your snb because i got nothing left" target in games where people know what they are doing. this further makes extend shields a more practical power to take. sure its not good for everyone, escorts for example may need rsp more then extend shields but then this doff wouldnt really change that anyways.
cryptic, stop makeing powers too good, and i mean too good in that there is absolutly no downsides to takeing 99% of the powers in this game. this means theres no thinking required.
ya, ES should have a down side, and this doff should just eliminate the downside to like it is now
If you are extending your shield, it makes sense that you are deverting some of your power to the extended shields. This will benefit the receiver, but should cost you some power. So in my opinion when using extend your own shield power could be lowered by, for example, 20.
Of course, a powerfull cruiser can compensate with emergency powers to shields.
Also it would make sense that a smart purple engineer has some tricks in his sleeve to buff your own shields so it would have the +20 resist during the extend.
So summarized. Extending shields should cost you something, but the loss can be minimized with emergency powers and the purple doff.
extend shields is already an awesome power as it is now, why should it get that much better with absolutly no downsides?
this is the problem with this game, too many ++'s not enough -'s
^^^^ very true! At least make extend have a penalty for the caster, like -20 shield power at least (as rudefix suggested). Even though 10% dmg reduction is better than -20 power reduction...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
^^^^ very true! At least make extend have a penalty for the caster, like -20 shield power at least (as rudefix suggested). Even though 10% dmg reduction is better than -20 power reduction...
maybe even start at -10 for extend 1, -15 for extend 2 and -20 for extend 3. that way if you have a choice between any of them you have to think- "now how much power can i afford?"
i always thought it would make sense if youre extending your shields to someone else your own shields would suffer either in strength (resistances) or in regen power (to represet the power needed to push your shields somewhere else) or a straight up shield power cost to use the power.
right now, the power has no downsides, thats why a lot of premades run with it, this doff in any shape or form only make it that much more "why take anything else" kind of power.
Here's the issue: ES is a skill that PvErs, RPers, and most puggers don't take a second look at, because they are are selfish and don't want to take a skill that can only benefit team mates (and puts their RSP on cooldown to boot) -- yet any half way successful PvP team requires several copies of extend.
If you make extend shields "have a downside", then one of three things will happen:
PvErs, RPers, and practically all puggers won't bother taking a skill that provides themselves with no benefit and actually hurts them.
Assuming the pros outweigh the cons, premades and the very best puggers will still take extends. With less copies of ES on pug teams the skill gap will subsequently grow wider.
If the cons outweigh the pros, then nobody will ever take ES, and we'll be left with one less viable skill.
Every single one of these eventualities is a bad one. While it's a nice thing to say that ES should have a downside, when you actually think about it you'd just end up making the game worse.
Also if you think about it, ES already has a couple downsides:
Puts RSP on cooldown.
And more significantly, costs a medium-to-high level engineering boff slot that can't be used on yourself.
Now, in terms of this particular Doff, there are three possibilities:
The doff is so good that everyone will have to use it, and by extension (heh) everyone will take extend. The skill gap will shrink, but at great cost to balance and gameplay. This is where we currently are.
It is so weak that nobody uses it and things stay exactly the same. This is what will happen if the proposed changes go through.
Ideally, we want something in the middle. You want to give PvErs, RPers, and puggers a reason to take extend without breaking balance in the process. "But extend is already too good. We don't need to make it any better!" you say? Well, premades will take ES regardless, and as long as the ES doffs aren't more powerful than other doffs you aren't helping out premades. You are helping puggers to make a necessary build change by making it seem less painful though.
Now, if it were up to me I'd make extend shields an innate, toggleable skill that would debuff your shields by the same amount it buffs the target, with a one minute cool-down whenever you deactivate it. That way everyone would be able to use ES, and people wouldn't need to gimp their solo builds to take it.
Something to note is the current Doff also benefits Non Oddys more. Which is a good thing. I mean seriously the less we see of that fat obese festering pile the better. On a more serious note, it brings punch back to ships that have the Lt Cmdr Eng slot. Something that before this doff, was considered Undesirable, compared to having a Lt Cmdr Sci in terms of sheer healing value. Sure the oddy can put a lt cmdr eng back in, but the ship is slower, it's Defense is lower, and frankly doing so mitigates it's biggest advantage over the other fed cruisers (this is one of the many reasons why the Bortas Sucks Balls KDF side). Also due to the size of the ship model, it takes longer to turn than another ship with the same turn rate score, which can easily be the difference between your Extends reapplying, or staying applied or not.
Mind you that right there is probably all the reason Jman will ever need to kill this doff, because it hurts their beloved RP Ship, and makes non p2w cruisers seem more appealing. But in a -well- designed game this would be considered an asset.
Also if you think about it, ES already has a couple downsides:
Puts RSP on cooldown.
And more significantly, costs a medium-to-high level engineering boff slot that can't be used on yourself.
On top of this, it's high risk for puggers who do try to run it because, despite the increased range, you are still depending on the recipient to not be a moron. Can't even tell the team to follow the thin blue line anymore.
I would like a doff that, upon application of ES, forces a PSA to pop up the explaining how it works if the recipient leaves the effective range.
How about Extend Shields Awareness Week? Replace every load screen with fun facts like how it functions and how it compares to other shield heals.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
It would be nice if extend applied half of your current shield resistance level and the different tiers of the ability only affected how long it applies for. If the different tiers were 10sec, 20sec, 30sec, with a 30 sec cd, even if you had extend 2 and 3, you'd still have a a 10 sec gap out of every minute, with a high BOFF slot cost. I think instead of regen being determined by ability, give the healed target half of whatever the healers shield power is set to so that it adds regen through shield power, and a slight additional resistance boost through power.
If it were more like this where a healer had to REALLY commit his build to healing, I'd have less of an issue with the doff having a 100% uptime with a lower resistance like say 10%. It would help the healer AND the person he's healing then.
I still think there has to be some bigger downsides to using this ability. It's still just to powerful at its opportunity cost. I understand what your saying Hurley, but increasing the potential of the best team heal in the game so that pugs will start using it more scales in the fact that pigs will have an even harder time dealing with better pvp'ers using the same buffed extends. As it is now, ppl that know no better accuse others of cheating because theyre alpha can't crack a shield facing that has an extend hardening it. Hell even premades are beating on over hardened shields, sometimes for hours at a time, due to how effective theahility already is.
And I'd also like to see rsp on cd the entire time extend is activated. Give us the ability to cut extend in order to rsp. This gives us another way to work around extend by putting sw pressure on the healer. It makes quite a bit of sense too. Seems weird that while overtaxing the hell out your shields by extending another ship, with the flick of switch you can reverse your shield polarity and magically recharge your shields at the same time
I understand what your saying Hurley, but increasing the potential of the best team heal in the game so that pugs will start using it more scales in the fact that pigs will have an even harder time dealing with better pvp'ers using the same buffed extends.
No, you don't quite get what I'm saying. The point here is that there is a balance point somewhere that gives you the best of both worlds. If a premade team takes a few extend doffs, they need to give up other valuable doff slots to do so. If the doff is properly balanced, then there shouldn't be too much of a difference besides slightly better min/max. On the other hand, if you're able to encourage more puggers to take extend it could make an enormous difference and vastly shrink the skill gap.
On the other hand, if you're able to encourage more puggers to take extend it could make an enormous difference and vastly shrink the skill gap.
I just wanna step in and confirm that this was the primary design motivation behind the new doff power. Glad somebody picked up on it, and is making suggestions that may help toward that goal.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I just wanna step in and confirm that this was the primary design motivation behind the new doff power. Glad somebody picked up on it, and is making suggestions that may help toward that goal.
In my opinion the way the doff originally released is the perfect incentive. Mayb elower the resist to 10 percent if you keep the Full Duration on extend. or make it a +20 for 8 seconds. I don't see anything else really working towards that end goal.
This also helps newbies that have ships like the Assault Cruiser, or Starcruiser as well. (and later the fleet starcruiser) since they have higher level eng slots than the Optimal Oddy setup does, and they sacrifice nothing for doing so (where as an oddy sacrifices more potent healing)
I just wanna step in and confirm that this was the primary design motivation behind the new doff power. Glad somebody picked up on it, and is making suggestions that may help toward that goal.
I think about three people picked up on it, but thanks for the callout!
But yeah, it's a double issue. You both want to encourage puggers to use ES, but you also want to encourage them to use it right; not hoard it for themselves. I think that a resist for the entire (or at least half of) the duration encourages better behavior but is more powerful. In terms of balance, 5% is probably a good value for a full duration resist, but 10% might do a better job in getting puggers pick it up. That's just me though, I'm sure others have different values in their heads, and to be honest I've gone back and forth a bit myself on what I think is good.
Some random thoughts:
-Ricky's idea about adding in a new loading screen going over specific skills like ES is brilliant!
-A lot of people in this thread seem less concerned about making the doff balanced, and more concerned about not making shield tanking more powerful than it already is. Perhaps a compromise is in order to balance out the effect these new doffs will have. I hear that the brace for impact doffs are quite powerful and might need to be toned down a little
-The old ES animations wasn't very good, and the new one is worse. If you want ES to be more accessible to pugs you need to give it a proper animation.
-Perhaps higher levels of ES could offer a larger damage reduction, or the damage reduction to yourself could be some fraction of the strength of the extend on the target.
I just wanna step in and confirm that this was the primary design motivation behind the new doff power. Glad somebody picked up on it, and is making suggestions that may help toward that goal.
my first though was that with this maybe more pugers would see this as valuable and actualy use ES, you can have full up time with the skill, so this doff would be extreamly beneficial to your own defense.
my second thought was 20% is a lot, then when you mentioned it was the same kind of defense you get with maco, so it would make an extra 20% of damage disappear, ya that definitely needed a nerf. really though, this resist as almost 0 value if its not up for longer then then 8 seconds. full up time with 5% resist would be great though, or 15 seconds for half up time at 10%
and i have to agree about the animation, i can barley see who im extending to half the time. try changing the hue to the same color as RSP's green, any noob will know that green around their shields is a good thing, even if they arent sure whats going on.
-Ricky's idea about adding in a new loading screen going over specific skills like ES is brilliant!
This. It might be a bit of work, but I think that having some strategic tips for under-used skills (or skill combinations) in the loading screens might make quite a difference. That could encourage experimentation among casual players.
-Ricky's idea about adding in a new loading screen going over specific skills like ES is brilliant!
Thanks man. I'm really happy for Data that he got to be captain of the Enterprise and all, but every time I see that load screen I think about how it could tell people how to distribute shields.
-The old ES animations wasn't very good, and the new one is worse. If you want ES to be more accessible to pugs you need to give it a proper animation.
This, a thousand times, this. With a bzzzt sound when they move out of range so they know it's shorting out.
I just wanna step in and confirm that this was the primary design motivation behind the new doff power. Glad somebody picked up on it, and is making suggestions that may help toward that goal.
Alright I'm going to just throw these out there, keeping in mind I only pug these days so the implications for pre-mades don't jump out at me.
What about a doff providing resistance to either slows or roots when ES is up? Cause you know the two ships are linked, sorta. PvErs might even like it for borg tractors.
Alright, one more idea, probably too hard to code. What if the ships being sorta linked provided immunity to some AoE effects, provided either one is outside of the AoE? This would encourage actual piloting because if you just facehug your buddy you get caught in the AoE together, but if you get too far out you break the Extend.
I'm just looking for something other than adding more shield resists. And I fully support anything that gets new players to throw ES around.
Also, not a real suggestion, but give both parties immunity to drain effects and noobs will learn to use ES.
And can we please get a doff which will allow Aceton Beam to gain some measure of self respect? It doesn't even get off the couch anymore.
and i have to agree about the animation, i can barley see who im extending to half the time. try changing the hue to fireworks, any noob will know that a party around their shields is a good thing, even if they arent sure whats going on.
fixed.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Ehm, how about designing some PvE content where ES is a must bring skill, might be a nice change of pace for all the Escorts only PvE we have right now.
As was pointed out about a million times over already.
Also how many puggers are you expecting to actually know about / acquire this new Doff?
I just wanna step in and confirm that this was the primary design motivation behind the new doff power. Glad somebody picked up on it, and is making suggestions that may help toward that goal.
I think the concept has merit, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I was under the impression these new DOFFs and their powers came from the new lockbox, are these powers "out in the wild"?
Having more people adopt ES is a good thing, but it's going to be pretty hard to see mass adoption if these DOFFs go the way of the Attack Pattern and Subnuc DOFFs - high end ultra-rares.
Ehm, how about designing some PvE content where ES is a must bring skill, might be a nice change of pace for all the Escorts only PvE we have right now.
I have to agree.
ES is an amazing skill, but it's pretty bad in PvE content.
There is no place for a dedicated healer, as there is no place for a dedicated tank. On top of this the ships best suited for PvE tanking, Cruisers, with some threat control will be the focus of fire - it doesn't make sense at that point to then give up one of your self heals when you are most likely the one that will be shot at.
This is completely flipped around in PvP, and is where ES as a skill truly shines. IMO anyway.
Ehm, how about designing some PvE content where ES is a must bring skill, might be a nice change of pace for all the Escorts only PvE we have right now.
Great idea. You could have a section of a high level, team focused mission where you are fighting an enemy that is invulnerable, either for a set amount of time or until you you accomplish an objective. This enemy would do massive damage (but not one-shot burst type of damage) and to complete the mission you would either need to cross heal each other or control the enemy somehow throughout the invulnerability period.
Ehm, how about designing some PvE content where ES is a must bring skill, might be a nice change of pace for all the Escorts only PvE we have right now.
As was pointed out about a million times over already.
Also how many puggers are you expecting to actually know about / acquire this new Doff?
well theres no win, freighter defense and cure, they are sorta must have there. though a good cure team deals with all spawns LONG before they can get a shot off at kang.
well theres no win, freighter defense and cure, they are sorta must have there. though a good cure team deals with all spawns LONG before they can get a shot off at kang.
I'm sorry but in each of these putting a healer on the kang, freighter and expecting to make the optional /next wave means your doing it wrong.
Simple test, as you said already, 5 escorst blow everything up long before it reaches the heal sponge no ES on the team. Now repeat same missions with a bunch of perfectly synced ES3 cycling cruises and see which one earns you the price.
There are many options for designing mission that require tanks or healers...none in game sofar.
Yup ultra-rare lockbox DOffs to enlighten the masses.....great plan
I think about three people picked up on it, but thanks for the callout!
But yeah, it's a double issue. You both want to encourage puggers to use ES, but you also want to encourage them to use it right; not hoard it for themselves. I think that a resist for the entire (or at least half of) the duration encourages better behavior but is more powerful. In terms of balance, 5% is probably a good value for a full duration resist, but 10% might do a better job in getting puggers pick it up. That's just me though, I'm sure others have different values in their heads, and to be honest I've gone back and forth a bit myself on what I think is good.
Some random thoughts:
-Ricky's idea about adding in a new loading screen going over specific skills like ES is brilliant!
-A lot of people in this thread seem less concerned about making the doff balanced, and more concerned about not making shield tanking more powerful than it already is. Perhaps a compromise is in order to balance out the effect these new doffs will have. I hear that the brace for impact doffs are quite powerful and might need to be toned down a little
-The old ES animations wasn't very good, and the new one is worse. If you want ES to be more accessible to pugs you need to give it a proper animation.
-Perhaps higher levels of ES could offer a larger damage reduction, or the damage reduction to yourself could be some fraction of the strength of the extend on the target.
i picked up on what was intended, but this just seems like the "easy" way to get it done. and if anything, i've learned that just because its easy doesnt mean its best. i've always thought extend shields was stupidly powerful for what its designed to do and since day one have mentioned from time to time it needs a downside.
Comments
I for one think people should just start carrying more shockwaves. I mean really ES is kind of something you should always keep in mind on the field anyway, and you need a way to knock it off, or kick enemies so far out that they can't get it's benefit (by the way the host ship also loses benefit of the doff if ES is no longer applying via tbr kicks).
The doff, also makes the non oddy cruisers more useful to field as well since they can run 2 higher level engineering slots and have 2 extends. Cryptic loves "balancing" their game through stupid add ons. And really this inadvertantly boosts things like the starcruiser, and Old AC.
Personally I think if any change were to be done, keep it at 20 percent resist, but have it apply for half the duration of ES. That's not terribly OP and the doff will still be useful then. Don't make it some silly proc.
The day the lockboxes came out, I saw someone in the opvp channel say they were going to test it when I had asked about it.
I'm curious to know if it reduces perception for both friendly and enemies.
This is what it should be.
10% all damage reduction to shields on self while ES on a target for the entire duration unless the player moves out of the range of ES.
There it's balanced. What's so hard about that? Do you guys actually test this stuff or just roll it off the assembly line as fast as possible to make that dollar?
Extremely disappointed in you as a developer and Cryptic staff.
extend shields is already an awesome power as it is now, why should it get that much better with absolutly no downsides?
this is the problem with this game, too many ++'s not enough -'s
that is not that big of a downside considering what you get.
i dont specificly mean your "change" to the extend shields doff, i mean the extend shields power itself is fairly powerful without a doff added to it and no downside.
i always thought it would make sense if youre extending your shields to someone else your own shields would suffer either in strength (resistances) or in regen power (to represet the power needed to push your shields somewhere else) or a straight up shield power cost to use the power.
right now, the power has no downsides, thats why a lot of premades run with it, this doff in any shape or form only make it that much more "why take anything else" kind of power.
and lets face it, its ownly shared cooldown is rsp, and that is a big "hit me with your snb because i got nothing left" target in games where people know what they are doing. this further makes extend shields a more practical power to take. sure its not good for everyone, escorts for example may need rsp more then extend shields but then this doff wouldnt really change that anyways.
cryptic, stop makeing powers too good, and i mean too good in that there is absolutly no downsides to takeing 99% of the powers in this game. this means theres no thinking required.
ya, ES should have a down side, and this doff should just eliminate the downside to like it is now
The mantra has changed, get on board, and ready your wallets
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
yeah but the new mantra's downside is "real money"
extend shields doesnt have a real money cost since its free!
lol
... but seriously....
If you are extending your shield, it makes sense that you are deverting some of your power to the extended shields. This will benefit the receiver, but should cost you some power. So in my opinion when using extend your own shield power could be lowered by, for example, 20.
Of course, a powerfull cruiser can compensate with emergency powers to shields.
Also it would make sense that a smart purple engineer has some tricks in his sleeve to buff your own shields so it would have the +20 resist during the extend.
So summarized. Extending shields should cost you something, but the loss can be minimized with emergency powers and the purple doff.
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
^^^^ very true! At least make extend have a penalty for the caster, like -20 shield power at least (as rudefix suggested). Even though 10% dmg reduction is better than -20 power reduction...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
maybe even start at -10 for extend 1, -15 for extend 2 and -20 for extend 3. that way if you have a choice between any of them you have to think- "now how much power can i afford?"
Here's the issue: ES is a skill that PvErs, RPers, and most puggers don't take a second look at, because they are are selfish and don't want to take a skill that can only benefit team mates (and puts their RSP on cooldown to boot) -- yet any half way successful PvP team requires several copies of extend.
If you make extend shields "have a downside", then one of three things will happen:
Every single one of these eventualities is a bad one. While it's a nice thing to say that ES should have a downside, when you actually think about it you'd just end up making the game worse.
Also if you think about it, ES already has a couple downsides:
Now, in terms of this particular Doff, there are three possibilities:
Now, if it were up to me I'd make extend shields an innate, toggleable skill that would debuff your shields by the same amount it buffs the target, with a one minute cool-down whenever you deactivate it. That way everyone would be able to use ES, and people wouldn't need to gimp their solo builds to take it.
Mind you that right there is probably all the reason Jman will ever need to kill this doff, because it hurts their beloved RP Ship, and makes non p2w cruisers seem more appealing. But in a -well- designed game this would be considered an asset.
I would like a doff that, upon application of ES, forces a PSA to pop up the explaining how it works if the recipient leaves the effective range.
How about Extend Shields Awareness Week? Replace every load screen with fun facts like how it functions and how it compares to other shield heals.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
If it were more like this where a healer had to REALLY commit his build to healing, I'd have less of an issue with the doff having a 100% uptime with a lower resistance like say 10%. It would help the healer AND the person he's healing then.
I still think there has to be some bigger downsides to using this ability. It's still just to powerful at its opportunity cost. I understand what your saying Hurley, but increasing the potential of the best team heal in the game so that pugs will start using it more scales in the fact that pigs will have an even harder time dealing with better pvp'ers using the same buffed extends. As it is now, ppl that know no better accuse others of cheating because theyre alpha can't crack a shield facing that has an extend hardening it. Hell even premades are beating on over hardened shields, sometimes for hours at a time, due to how effective theahility already is.
No, you don't quite get what I'm saying. The point here is that there is a balance point somewhere that gives you the best of both worlds. If a premade team takes a few extend doffs, they need to give up other valuable doff slots to do so. If the doff is properly balanced, then there shouldn't be too much of a difference besides slightly better min/max. On the other hand, if you're able to encourage more puggers to take extend it could make an enormous difference and vastly shrink the skill gap.
I just wanna step in and confirm that this was the primary design motivation behind the new doff power. Glad somebody picked up on it, and is making suggestions that may help toward that goal.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
In my opinion the way the doff originally released is the perfect incentive. Mayb elower the resist to 10 percent if you keep the Full Duration on extend. or make it a +20 for 8 seconds. I don't see anything else really working towards that end goal.
This also helps newbies that have ships like the Assault Cruiser, or Starcruiser as well. (and later the fleet starcruiser) since they have higher level eng slots than the Optimal Oddy setup does, and they sacrifice nothing for doing so (where as an oddy sacrifices more potent healing)
I think about three people picked up on it, but thanks for the callout!
But yeah, it's a double issue. You both want to encourage puggers to use ES, but you also want to encourage them to use it right; not hoard it for themselves. I think that a resist for the entire (or at least half of) the duration encourages better behavior but is more powerful. In terms of balance, 5% is probably a good value for a full duration resist, but 10% might do a better job in getting puggers pick it up. That's just me though, I'm sure others have different values in their heads, and to be honest I've gone back and forth a bit myself on what I think is good.
Some random thoughts:
-Ricky's idea about adding in a new loading screen going over specific skills like ES is brilliant!
-A lot of people in this thread seem less concerned about making the doff balanced, and more concerned about not making shield tanking more powerful than it already is. Perhaps a compromise is in order to balance out the effect these new doffs will have. I hear that the brace for impact doffs are quite powerful and might need to be toned down a little
-The old ES animations wasn't very good, and the new one is worse. If you want ES to be more accessible to pugs you need to give it a proper animation.
-Perhaps higher levels of ES could offer a larger damage reduction, or the damage reduction to yourself could be some fraction of the strength of the extend on the target.
my first though was that with this maybe more pugers would see this as valuable and actualy use ES, you can have full up time with the skill, so this doff would be extreamly beneficial to your own defense.
my second thought was 20% is a lot, then when you mentioned it was the same kind of defense you get with maco, so it would make an extra 20% of damage disappear, ya that definitely needed a nerf. really though, this resist as almost 0 value if its not up for longer then then 8 seconds. full up time with 5% resist would be great though, or 15 seconds for half up time at 10%
and i have to agree about the animation, i can barley see who im extending to half the time. try changing the hue to the same color as RSP's green, any noob will know that green around their shields is a good thing, even if they arent sure whats going on.
This. It might be a bit of work, but I think that having some strategic tips for under-used skills (or skill combinations) in the loading screens might make quite a difference. That could encourage experimentation among casual players.
What about a doff providing resistance to either slows or roots when ES is up? Cause you know the two ships are linked, sorta. PvErs might even like it for borg tractors.
Alright, one more idea, probably too hard to code. What if the ships being sorta linked provided immunity to some AoE effects, provided either one is outside of the AoE? This would encourage actual piloting because if you just facehug your buddy you get caught in the AoE together, but if you get too far out you break the Extend.
I'm just looking for something other than adding more shield resists. And I fully support anything that gets new players to throw ES around.
Also, not a real suggestion, but give both parties immunity to drain effects and noobs will learn to use ES.
And can we please get a doff which will allow Aceton Beam to gain some measure of self respect? It doesn't even get off the couch anymore. fixed.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
As was pointed out about a million times over already.
Also how many puggers are you expecting to actually know about / acquire this new Doff?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I think the concept has merit, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I was under the impression these new DOFFs and their powers came from the new lockbox, are these powers "out in the wild"?
Having more people adopt ES is a good thing, but it's going to be pretty hard to see mass adoption if these DOFFs go the way of the Attack Pattern and Subnuc DOFFs - high end ultra-rares.
I have to agree.
ES is an amazing skill, but it's pretty bad in PvE content.
There is no place for a dedicated healer, as there is no place for a dedicated tank. On top of this the ships best suited for PvE tanking, Cruisers, with some threat control will be the focus of fire - it doesn't make sense at that point to then give up one of your self heals when you are most likely the one that will be shot at.
This is completely flipped around in PvP, and is where ES as a skill truly shines. IMO anyway.
Great idea. You could have a section of a high level, team focused mission where you are fighting an enemy that is invulnerable, either for a set amount of time or until you you accomplish an objective. This enemy would do massive damage (but not one-shot burst type of damage) and to complete the mission you would either need to cross heal each other or control the enemy somehow throughout the invulnerability period.
well theres no win, freighter defense and cure, they are sorta must have there. though a good cure team deals with all spawns LONG before they can get a shot off at kang.
I'm sorry but in each of these putting a healer on the kang, freighter and expecting to make the optional /next wave means your doing it wrong.
Simple test, as you said already, 5 escorst blow everything up long before it reaches the heal sponge no ES on the team. Now repeat same missions with a bunch of perfectly synced ES3 cycling cruises and see which one earns you the price.
There are many options for designing mission that require tanks or healers...none in game sofar.
Yup ultra-rare lockbox DOffs to enlighten the masses.....great plan
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
i picked up on what was intended, but this just seems like the "easy" way to get it done. and if anything, i've learned that just because its easy doesnt mean its best. i've always thought extend shields was stupidly powerful for what its designed to do and since day one have mentioned from time to time it needs a downside.
ah well....