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Eng Cruiser STF build help
zubo100
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
Hello everyone
Soon i want to start doing some STFs again with my Cruiser, but i am not sure if my build is good enough. It should be good enough to also tackle elite STFs in the future.
Here it is: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=stftanktry1_0
Now i would like to fill the role of a tank in space and some kind of fabrication supporter on ground if that makes any sense.
I have chosen the assault cruiser, but if there is any cruiser that is better because of BO or console-layout please let me know.
Now you can see all the skills in the link but now another question...the equipment.
Obviously i do not yet have any borg parts apart from the console. I currently use 6beam/2torp and the aegis set. Consoles are 3x energy specific damage in tactical, resistance plates and the borg console in eng and these shield consoles in sci.
On the ground i currently use a bunker fabrication kit, the JemHadar Rifle and an energy dampening armor.
Any advice on how i could improve this and also what kind of duty officers would work well with this setup is very much appreciated.
Soon i want to start doing some STFs again with my Cruiser, but i am not sure if my build is good enough. It should be good enough to also tackle elite STFs in the future.
Here it is: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=stftanktry1_0
Now i would like to fill the role of a tank in space and some kind of fabrication supporter on ground if that makes any sense.
I have chosen the assault cruiser, but if there is any cruiser that is better because of BO or console-layout please let me know.
Now you can see all the skills in the link but now another question...the equipment.
Obviously i do not yet have any borg parts apart from the console. I currently use 6beam/2torp and the aegis set. Consoles are 3x energy specific damage in tactical, resistance plates and the borg console in eng and these shield consoles in sci.
On the ground i currently use a bunker fabrication kit, the JemHadar Rifle and an energy dampening armor.
Any advice on how i could improve this and also what kind of duty officers would work well with this setup is very much appreciated.
Post edited by zubo100 on
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b) wait for cryptic to balance classes and ships (hope you have a pensions fund)
c) fly and escort use DHC
d) just get used to being outdamged and healed by everything around you and enjoy flying your favorite ship. nothing wrong with it in PvE. Should you ever venture into PvP....see a)
e) I would drop the aft torp, use a quant up front for PvE is ok, full on beamboat is still viable. I prefer the enemy neutralisation kit on ground for my eng.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I dont get why people tell others to re-roll to the FotM. So what if currently your spec isnt all that great atm. Anyway I dont think hes talking about PvP
Tac is pure DPS so he will not outclass a tac captain as a tank-build engineer.
To OP, just wondering, is there a reason you have on your Lt. Commander Boff both the Engineering team 1 & 3? Maybe replace one of them with something else if available perhaps?
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
I agree. TRIBBLE all you tac ONLY thinkers. As for his double engi team, I think he was goin for uber hull healage and support. I would post what I think is an ideal build, but atm my brain is fried and I am too tired... come tomorrow however I will put my real thoughts, I just wanted to get that first second and third sentence out on the table.
I am also not so sure about what else might be good...perhaps emergency power to weapons together with beam fire at will as a kind of opener to "grab" aggro? These emergency powers also share a cooldown, dont they?
On a side note i also have a tac officer in an escort, but its just not my favorite playstyle.
In STFs warp plasma is a great tool. You can kill heavy torps with it, CC cubes/shperes to keep them out of the way while you deal with another problem(infected optional godsend), and generally lay waste and troll npcs with it.
Normally I would say get RSP but your a Engi so if you keep your heals rolling Miracle worker will be enough to get you through your rotations against the gate or tac cubes.
As for science if you keep A2S running you can just sit through whatever the borg throw at you if you get tractored, so a really powerful shield heal may be of more use overall.
Also this build is a bit more to the tank than it is dps. The nice beam cruiser dps builds are mostly based off the dragon one, but as a engi you might as well just go the route of giving the borg the finger and then stay with them till they die. Not the largest DPS ever seen in the game but you can basically know that what your shooting at will die. So pick your targets accordingly. No blocking probes for you but you can tank gates and let smart escorts get closer than 9.9999km to it.
There's a linked cooldown, but the System Cooldown on EPTX is sufficient to run two copies of two different powers full-time. In other words, you can run EPTS3(Copy1)-->EPTW1(Copy1)-->EPTS3(Copy2)-->EPTW1(Copy2) and have the full benefits of both permanently.
Concerning loadout etc, try here.
This has nothing to do with FoTM. Eng being TRIBBLE has been going on for months, starting with Doffs and skill tree revamp, with death by a thousand cuts added later.
In case you haven't notice: There is no point in tanking in friggin PvE, you want to get the optional you gotta blow up stuff fast. Doesn't matter if FA, NWS, save the transports, ..... healing and tanking only prevent your team from getting optional or points faster. So keep you eng healers in storage.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Engs are fine. They raise the survivability of whatever they're flying.
The problem is that most of the time you don't need more survivability than what a Tac in that same ship can provide. There are exceptions... for example, a "good" tank can hold the attention of Two Cubes or a Gateway and a Tactical Cube at the same time, but cases where that is useful are quite rare.
When you're learning the ropes on STFs, it can be helpful to be able to take an extra few hits, but after the 100th Elite run you tend to have the tactics down to a fine art... and extreme survivability becomes superfluous.
So Engineers are relegated to Piloting Escorts in STFs, where the extra survivability tends not to be wasted. Or they can be pushed towards Healing/Buffing duty in Fleet Missions (which can work: the protect-the-transports mission for example... the transports don't care if you save them via Constantly Healing them or via Killing the ships that are attacking them)
In another topic there was a long discussion if all cannons are better than a mix of torps and cannons. Also What type of cannons are best...all DHC, or 2DHC+2DC or even 4DC. But at least i got from this discussion that there is no real consensus here so i have played around a bit and created a energy-only eng-escort build. This of course is assuming an advanced escort is the right tool.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=engescortstf1_0
Once again any pointers as to how to improve it would be welcome.
Yes, for PvE that is the safest bet, DHC all the way, forget anything else. I would suggest Patrol Escort/Advanced escort/Heavy Escort Carrier for an eng, just pick the one you like best. If you have a jem bug, or have a a hard time staying within the billion EC limit go bug.
http://denkbassin.de/sto/
has everything you need to know about escorts, (also about cruisers) I'd stay with the escort though.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
This thread? Or this one? Or this one?
Yeah.
Advanced Escort is OK, but the Fleet (now renamed "Patrol") Escort, or an Armitage if you have one, is probably going to be a better option for you. Mainly due to the extra Engineering slot for a second copy of EPTS (Or Aux2Bat1). The Armitage technically has the highest potential for damage out of all Federation Escorts in PVE (even moreso than the Bug) due to the fighter bay.
Forget the Hilbert Guide, it's debatably OK advice for PVP but those setups are underoptimised for PVE in general and STFs in particular.
If you're thinking of going Escort in PVE, a good start would be to lean towards spike AoE damage, e.g.:
Tac Com: TT1, CSV1, TS3, APB3
Tac LtCom: TT1, CRF1, APO1
Eng LT: EPTS1, Aux2SIF1
Eng Ens: EPTS1
Sci LT: HE1, TSS2
And bring a Vent Theta Radiation Console with you for a "free" Eject Warp Plasma.
Weapon type should be: Antiprotons (best for you) or Disruptors (best for your team) or Phasers (only if using the Quad Cannon). You'll want at least one Fore Quantum launcher for TS3, though ideally I'll take 2 [Borg] Quantum Launchers with a few Projectile DOFFs along for STFs and 1 Launcher for Fleet missions.
There are other setups - the 4xDHC one lacks a bit of hull damage (notably spike damage) but makes up for it somewhat in shield stripping ability. Or you can run a few Tricobalt Mines in the rear for maximum Hull Spike damage, but they're far more situational and are best used when combined with Tactical Captain Buffs.
Havam is correct that you don't "need" a cruiser to tank in PVE. It might make it easier, but it's perfectly workable to stick an Engineer in a Fleet Escort and tank Elite STF Tac Cubes or Gateways, whilst retaining the ability to to severe amounts of damage against other weaker targets. I do it regularly.
Don't see this as a push to get you in an Escort though - Cruisers can work too, it's just that "more DPS" is generally seen as more desirable than "more survivability".
Additional Details: If you want to play this build properly, you will need three Very Rare Technician Duty Officers and two very rare projectile Duty Officers in your Active Space roster.
Technician: Linked Here!
Projectile Officer: Lined Here!
I would also very highly recommend that you create a key bind that will first Re-distribute your shields, second, activate EPTSII, third activate EPTW and fourth activate Auxiliary battery. I also recommend the below weapon load out as I found that it is Trekish.
Note: Once Aux-Bat is activeated. Your EPTSII might laps in coverage. Just use Rotate Shield Frequency if you start to take too much damage.
Fore Weapon Slots:
Phaser Beam Array MKXII [ACCx2] [CrtD]
Phaser Beam Array MKXII [ACCx2] [CrtD]
Photon Torpedo Launcher [ACCx2] {CrtD]
Photon Torpedo Launcher [ACCx2] {CrtD]
Aft Weapon Slots:
4x Phaser Turret MKXII [ACCx2] [CrtD]
So how to play this build? Well, basically you want to place BO-I, CRF-I, DEM-III and TT-I all on active as EPTW-I activates. Then let loose your weapons on your target. If you setup the key-bind in the order that I recommended, your weapon power should only dip for a second. You can use EPS whenever you feel you need more power or Nadeon Inversion during your Alpha Attack as well. Just make sure you place as much of your attack active abilities on cool-down as you can before your Aux-battery activates because once it activates, all of your cool-down timers will be reduced by 30%. In a pinch, use photonic officer to increase this even further! Some will say that Photonic Officer is a wasted Bridge Officer slot, but that 30% cool down next time around will help recharge Phonotic Officer as well as Photonic Officer will help with all of your cool-down abilities, even Aux-battery. So it is a cycle in that regard.
So if you play this build correctly, it will play as if you really had two copies of all of your abilities. Thus, BO, CRF, TT, EPTS and EPTW will all have great uptime. Even your limited heals will have good uptime!!!
BTW, if you need key binding help, I can write a key bind for you and all you will have to do is put the abilities into the trey as instructed.
So just have fun! Remember to keep your bow on target because those torpedos will be on semi-automatic mode lol! I just have them autofire! That is all.
EDIT: Oh I almost forgot about Consoles:
Science you put field generators
Tactical you put Phaser Emitter relays, I think that is what they are… anyway, something to beef up phaser damage.
Engineering, at least two armor consoles, a Borg Console and whatever you want. RCS might be nice in PVE.
I had run this build with 3 piece borg and MACO shield. But, you can do 4 piece borg and get a free tractor beam if you wish.
Now this cruiser setup sounds really nice...and a bit more complicated as well.
Its also the first time i have seen something similar and one question remains: would it not be better to use beam banks instead of arrays here?
I have to check how many respecs i have left and may be visiting the testserver should i still have access to it (last time was 2 years ago...heh).
If possible i will be testing both options and see which one i like more. Since you used this setup i guess it works just fine...
Edit: One problem i can clearly see is that both, choosing an escort or preparing this kind of setup will take some time until i have all the equipment etc. ready. Maybe in the end it will just come down to cost...
There are four problems with Aux2Bat builds:
(i) They use up at least two DOFF slots (often three) for Technicians.
(ii) The cooldown reduction is applied once as a "spike", not constantly for N seconds. This means that if you activate an ability with a shorter cooldown (TT1, for example) then use Aux2Bat, there will be a lag time until you can use Aux2Bat again to reduce its cooldown a second time. Basically, stuff like Tac Team will be up for 30 seconds (TT1>Aux2Bat>TT1), then down for ~15 seconds.
(iii) Aux Power is reduced drastically whlist Aux2Bat is in effect. Your levels drop to 5, or sometimes to 0. Whilst this is handy for certain powers (damage from TBR, etc) it will cripple the effect of many healing powers such as Aux2SIF, HE1 or TSS2 for approx 10 seconds out of every 30 (a third of the time!).
(iv) Aux2Bat shares a cooldown with EPTX. You can run 2xEPTW and 2xEPTS normally and maintain full uptime on them all, but you can't achieve the equivalent of that with Aux2Bat. Its effectiveness on a Cruiser is therefore somewhat limited.
That said, there are certainly places to use Aux2Bat. Reducing Tactical Power Recharge is a good one, it's very handy on an Escort (I've an Armitage build that makes great use of it to increase APB3 uptime!) but Aux2Bat1 will work just as well as Aux2Bat2, etc.
I'm not going to argue with that, but the build I shared does work rather well for PVE. In PVP people can easily take advantage of low points in EPTS uptime as you said. However, this is just a PVE build that will allow the player more up-time with his very limited offensive skills while maintaining a reasonable uptime on heals and things like that. One will of course have to pay attention to Aux power level before using HE in this build... but meh, it is PVE and really, with an Engineer at the helm healing isn't really going to be an issue.
Yes, you can use DBB rather than Beam Arrays. The Spike damage with BO is more. I just like Beam Arrays better.
I'd agree for a DPS build.
However the OP stated they wanted to "tank".
The problem is that at endgame PVE for tanking stuff like Donatra, Gateways and Elite Tac Cubes: against these foes, even a large-hulled Cruiser with lots of Armor Consoles will be dead fairly quickly without shields (unless you're exploiting weapon arc blindspots) and Tac Team is the best means of keeping your shield facing up under fire.
Aux2Bat negatively affects survivability: reduced healing potential, and reduced Tac Team Coverage (unless you still take two copies of TT1, like I do on my Engineer's Armitage, and even then sometimes the reduced healing potential is too much of a hindrance) might be too much for a tank (either Cruiser or Escort) to handle.
Basically, in my experience there's not a huge amount of survivability difference in a Cruiser and an Escort, properly flown by an Engineer in STFs. You can "tank" on either, though the Escort will have a greater potential to inflict damage. But if you dispense with Tac Team and make your heals half as effective as usual, then you will likely start to struggle on either ship.
If the OP wants to stay in a Cruiser, I'd suggest a more conventional build in either an Assault Refit, a Tac Ody or an Excelsior.
Don't sweat the costs. Just get the highest Mk whites you can get off the exchange. They'll do fine until you can get better gear. There are story missions you can replay to get cannons, but they're only Duals, not Dual Heavies (except for the Plasma-Disruptor hybrids from Past Imperfect). No missions give turrets.
This.
A List of rewards can be found at http://www.stowiki.org/Episode_replay
Once you start doing Elite STFs, you'll soon build up more Borg Techs than you know what to do with, and can convert them to Weapons at the DS9 vendor...
I have now created two skill-builds (disregarding actual BO abilities)
Here is the Escort one:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=zubo11_0
And here the one for a Cruiser:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=zubo12_0
Basically the same only threat control and attack patterns are different(and because of that some minor changes).
Edit:
One thing i have just thought of: Would it not be possible to have a skill build that would work with cruisers AND escorts? In that case i could just try out everything and see what is is best. Or is it totally impossible to play an escort with threat control?
This would be my suggestion in that case:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=zubo13_0
any thoughts on that?
Now if i would choose one of these are they going to be ok?
It's not impossible (for PVE), you just need to plan your build out so that you are capable of surviving the damage output of whatever you shoot at in the Escort.
Example build with same skillpoint choices:
(i) Tac Ody BOFF Layout
(ii) Fleet Escort BOFF Layout
Space skills should be self-explanatory. Ground skill choices for an Engineer on STFs are quite important - tends to be Demolitions for Mine spike damage (KAGE) and Turrets and Drones for normal gameplay (with proper DOFFs you can drop 3x Turrets, 3x Mortars and 3x Drones simultaneously) and Modification Specialist for Weapons Malfunction on Bosses.
Now this skillset looks nice. A lot of people use 3 points in power insulators and inertial dampeners, but i guess this is more important for PvP? Anyway i found out i still have 5 respecs left so i will try this out with an escort as soon as i have redone enough old episodes to have some basic equipment. The Ody will have to wait until next month, with the stipend then i will have 5000points and can get me the whole package.
One more thing about the ground skills: This means i have to take 3 kits with me to switch around, correct? Are there any weapons that are particularly useful in ground stfs? My last try on one of those was before they got split up into ground only and space only and back then aoe-knockback or split beam weapons worked well...maybe the breen freezegun is useful? And what kind of shields? Currently i use the jem-hadar set for the extra healing, although i have the feeling the weapon is not the most powerful one...
You also said to use ground doffs to boost the beamed down equipment. What kind of doffs are generally needed to make this work?
And thank you once again for all the useful advice here.
Stick with the hilbert pve skill set and escort and you have a pretty universal build right there. Don't really agree with maelwy, but will leave it at that.
Yest three kits for STFs,
weapons: you need: Split beam rifle (infected) sniper (all), high density rifle (infected boss room) shot gun (all) not sure what its called
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Yeah, Insulators increase your resistance to power drains - there's very little at endgame PVE that will be draining you, and as an engineer you have access to boosting abilities like EPS or Nadeon anyway in an emergency.
Inertial Dampeners used to be a bit more useful than they currently are, but since the skillchanges there's not much in PVE that bothers you for longer than a few seconds (besides Tractor beams, which it doesn't really help with, and there are better counters for like APO and PH)
In a Cruiser you probably won't be bothered by Tractor beams much, but Escorts are another matter - it's hard to keep things in your anrrow weapon arcs when you can't turn. I'll usually bring a copy of APO1 or PH on anything running narrow-arc weapons for that reason.
For PVP, it'd be another ball game entirely and you'd probably be better off with a specialised build. I'd ramp up Insulators to 6 or 9 - but there's an argument against taking Dampeners if you're fighting anyone with TBR.
Yeah: Most of the Engineering kits are situationally useful -
+ Enemy Neutralization (Mines/Bombs vs normal mobs, Weapons Malfunction vs Bosses)
+ Breach Engineer (The "Self sufficient"/Soloing Kit)
+ Equipment Technician (Weapons Malfunction and Shield Recharge - "Tanking")
+ Bunker Fabrication (Defensive Fabrication Kit)
+ Fabrication Specialist (Offensive Fabrication Kit)
Generally speaking for Ground STFs you'll want a Pulsewave for normal encounters (high DPS and an AoE standard shot) and a Rifle for long-range shots.
The STF equipment sets (MACO and Omega for Feds) have an inherent "instant remodulator" power for a full set (3/3 pieces: armor, shields, weapon). The MACO equipment set comes with a decent rifle.
Concerning Ground DOFFs:
+ Borg Warfare Specialist ("Ledrene" - Obviously gives +Damage on STFs)
+ Armory Officer (Purple gives a decent chance to spawn 3 Turrets)
+ Explosives Expert (Purple gives a decent chance to spawn 3 Mortars)
+ Fabrication Engineer (Purple gives a decent chance to spawn 3 Support Drones)
+ Medic (Combined with Combat Supply, you'll summon NPC medics quite frequently)
+ Diagnostic Engineer (Odd choice perhaps, but you have kits with the Equipment Diagnostics ability - "Breach Engineer" being generally more useful than "Support Technician" - meaning you'll get the damage output buff quite regularly)
There're a lot more tactics for Ground play, but much of it comes down to being aware of your surroundings and learning to always use both Aim and Crouch (to increase damage output and reduce damage taken) and rolling or sprinting everywhere to avoid some damage whilst moving.
One Engineer-specific thing is Combat Supply. This sometimes still gets a bad reputation due to its previous annoyingly-unpredictable behaviour from many patches ago, but currently it's quite useful. Using the power drops a container, which hangs around for a long time. You and your teammates can then gather items from this container. It's basically "Infinite Items": as long as you keep three free Device slots, you can gather 3 sets of five free large Health/Shield/Energy buffs whenever you want, and they'll appear as normal items in your power trays. The three stacks are gathered seperately, but you can't re-gather them until you use up the complete stack... so if you use a few health hypos and want to top up again before a big encounter, just drop the remaining hypos and re-gather at the container for a fresh set. The "free items" disappear after a while - but it's a VERY LONG time, chances are that your tribble buffs will expire before the items do.
Speaking of Tribbles, the "Gambling Device" (whilst not strictly a tribble, it works the same way) is generally considered the best option here, as it buffs your damage output considerably.
After some time and some thinking and testing i am now at a point where i no longer want to be a tank as a role but still want to be a Crusier-Pilot. I got myself the Oddy-bunde and like this ship very much.
As i see it most of that has already been discussed here so i only have three questions left:
1.)
Is there any way to distribute skillpoints(space) more efficiently/effectively if i want to use only an Oddy than in the above example? Or are the differences so minimal that i can choose the build above without regrets and the added bonus to be able to use an escort should the need arise? What would you do?
2.)
Since i have all 3 Oddy-Consoles: Should i use them all? The working bees are nice to have, the escort seem to be of minor help, but i like the separation very much. Still there is the set bonus which seems to give some additional bonuses, but is it really worth it to use them? Right now i have all 3 of them in the eng-console slots and the borg console in one of the sci-slots. So i only have one plate and one shield console left...enough?
3.)
6 Beams, 2 Launchers or more beams?
Thank you
1) I pretty much run the above build. You could do small things like buff Engine power a bit, and tease a little more out of your EPTX skills by increasing "Starship Electro-Plasma Systems" and "Starship Shield Emitters" - but the return will be minimal, and in all honesty an Engineer makes a pretty solid Escort Pilot.
2) Depends entirely on your playstyle. The 3-set bonus is actually quite nice due to its effect on Worker Bees and Chevron Seperation's recharges, but there are better ways to get a higher turn rate or more armor. Personally I quite like the additional abilities.
3) Again, playstyle. If you go 6/2 then I'd put the Launchers on the same end, either Fore or Aft. I've even seen some decent 2xDBB/2xTorp/4xTurret setups that rely on Chevron Seperation for maneuverability.
When people tell you the best thing to bring is a Tac/Escort for PvE/STFs - they are generally correct due to how STFs are constructed.
I don't agree that you should only play that, as while its the most efficient its also far from necessary.
(I've personally organized cruiser-only Elite STFs where we finished with 7 or 8 minutes to spare on the optional - it's not brain surgery).
I play a variety of captains in a variety of ships and I like my cruisers for a change of pace.
Now, that out of the way...
If you really are going to bring an Engineer and you really are going to put him in a Cruiser then you really should be Tanking and/or Healing.
If you are not doing at least one of those things, then you really are wasting a spot on a team.
Your DPS will be low to middling at best, and the Escorts pumping out tons of damage will be the ones to take all of the borg's attention.
In other words, they will be doing all of the work and you will be along for the ride to basically collect loot that other people got for you.
So by all means, bring an eng and play a cruiser if that's what looks fun to you - but if you do so then set yourself up with 6 to 9 ranks of threat control and/or a lot of team healing.
I am an engi pilot. And as much as it disgusts me to say this, he's right. Due to the way STFs are set up, engis in space are only good for tanking/healing. I even have an escort with full mk XII gear, and my tac on my klingon side with not full mk XII easily, and I say again EASILY out-damages my escort on my fed side. It's not fair, it's not right, but that's how it is. Engis are only good as tanks or healers, as ussultimatum said.
You have a problem with that, go bother the devs lol...
Urmm.... I read that post as "Engis are only good as tanks or healers whenever they're flying a cruiser"
Engineers in Escorts are hardly underpowered.
Ditto for Science Officers.
And whilst there are a few 'DPS Cruiser' builds that approach Escort Territory, it doesn't take much extra investment to turn an Engineer in a DPS Cruiser into a proper tank... so it really comes down to a question of if you're not going to tank, how do you propose to make yourself useful in a team?
(And Science Vessels? Arguably underpowered no matter what you stick into them, though I'd still go Tac if at all possible. Still waiting on that Sci Skill revamp that keeps being promised...)