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Fleet Defiant Suggestion
captainf00k
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I am a big fan of the Tactical Escort Retrofit (Defiant) and am looking forward to the Fleet Defiant. That being said, I have seen some griping about the Fleet Defiant and the Defiant in general on the forums. The 2 main problems I see are that at end game, with the proper BOff/DOff setup the third ensign tactical boff power is useless. The second issue I see being discussed is that the Fleet version does not get the shield upgrade that most Fleet ships received. Why not make the ensign slot universal? This would allow those that feel shorted a shield upgrade the ability to slot EPtS or TSS. It would also be in line with other new ships that have universal stations.
Thanks
Thanks
RHINO | SAD PANDAS
Post edited by captainf00k on
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Comments
In the interest of balance (and variety), they aren't going to give the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit a universal BOFF slot when it already has a 5th tactical console, more hull, highest turn rate for a Fed ship, and can cloak.
As much as I love my Tactical Escort Retrofit, even I think that would be too much.
Then the Shipyard ship statistics need changing, when I picked up my Fleet Defiant it stated it had a 0.99 shield modifier rather than the basic 0.9 it actually has. It wouldn't be so bad but the Fleet Sabre I have on my Engineer has the 0.99 shield modifier but states it should be a 0.77 shield modifier.
I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this
I personally am still running a heavy raptor on my KDF side, but I am starting to need that ensign tac slot less and less as I perfect and smooth out my build and gameplay. However until you are able to do that, that extra slot is great.
Also like previously stated, that sucker can cloak, has 5 tac consoles, can equip a quad cannon, turns and moves like a boss, and is the freakin defiant. Even if you have a useless slot, you'll still kill pretty much everything.
Hit the nail on the head. Although it's useless, that third Tac Ensign is also a balancing factor among Escorts; who all fill their own niche:
1. Defiant-F:
Pros:
- The added Console is a Tac Console for the best DD potential.
- Highest Escort Turn Rate (short of JHAS), 17.
- Cloak.
Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.
- Lower Hull and Shields than other Fleet Escorts.
Niche: only one with C and LC Tac and 5 Tac Consoles (so it has the highest damage potential, even before the Turn and Cloak are considered) at the cost of being a bit squishier.
2. Hermes-F:
Pros:
- 3.3% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- Universal Ensign.
- Average Turn Rate, 16.
Cons:
- The added Console is an Eng Console, which offers very poor offensive options (lolPlasma Distribution Manifold) and mediocre defensive options (one more Field Gen>one more Neutronium).
- No special tricks.
Niche: no wasted Ensign, at the cost of having a bad 10th Console and being average (by Fleet FED Escort standards) in every other respect.
3. Prometheus-F:
Pros:
- 3.3% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- The added Console is a Tac Console for the best DD potential.
- Already had 3 Sci Consoles (+1 Field Gen).
- LC Sci BOFF opens some nice options.
- MVAM compatible.
- Average Turn Rate, 16.
Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.
Niche: tbh, a lot of them: second in tankiness to the Akira-F, second in damage potential to the Defiant-F, can do things other Escorts can't (Gravity Well...),...
4. Akira-F:
Pros:
- 6.7% more Hull than Defiant-F.
- 10% more Shields than Defiant-F.
- The added Console is a Sci Console, so you can add 18% to those Shields.
- Eng LC opens up some options.
- Hangar.
Cons:
- Third Tac Ensign.
- Lowest Turn Rate, 15.
Niche: tankiest (3 Sci Consoles, best Hull), pets. I'm not a fan of the Eng LC, but some people are.
5. Aquarius-F: lulz. No, seriously, what is this thing for?
Niche: none.
It's not perfectly balanced: the Aquarius is completely pointless and the Prometheus-F frankly gets a sweeter deal than the others, but overall 4 out of 5 have a niche; if they change the Third Tac Ensign to anything else, that'll drop to 3 out of 5.
Note that, at least Escort-wise, the KDF really got the short end of the stick with the Fleet upgrades: the Qin-F has a Third Tac Ensign, 15 Turn Rate and the Hermes-F's console setup: it's like the took the worst bits of the FED Ships and put them together. Though it does have the Cloak, that's not negligible.
And its Cloak doesn't take a Console slot, unlike the Defiant's.
I am not bashing the FMVE, but take this for example: borg cube drops your shields and tractors you and launches a heavy plasma torpedo. If you are a FMVE and you already blew your anti tractor whatever, you're probably going to either A) Get nova'd, or
FPE however, same situation, you are only likely to lose 30-60% of your hull, and have a somewhat better chance of survival, at the cost of some utility and a small amount of offensive power.
But overall, back on the topic if this thread, yeeeah, that final ensign slot on the fleet defiant is kinda... less useful? XD
Making the other ships a bit more flexible in however you want to build it.
With a 5th Tactical slot, you could put in a universal console, but at the cost of doing additional damage.
I both understand and appreciate the need for balance. I dont know that it would be a huge upgrade, it would however bring options. In terms of balance, the bug ship should be considered ( http://www.stowiki.org/Jem'Hadar_Attack_Ship). It has 5 tac slots as does the Fleet Defiant but also has more hull, shields, and 2 Lt. Universal BOff. It does not cloak though (which is of little to no use in PVE). I don't think a cross faction ship should outshine our own.
True enough, but it still exists. And for 400 million EC you could own one as well (assuming you wanted to fly an enemy ship)!
What's the incentive to play with the other escorts when the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit would clearly be the best ship in the game?
Also, I use cloak in everything but Fleet missions. The +15% damage boost is great for alpha strikes in STFs. And, there's usually enough time for you to get out of red alert and recloak.
It's not completely unheard of to use an enemy ship. They did it in Star Trek III and IV.
Yeah, sorry, not a gold member, I max out at 10 mil =P
But as far as I can tell, if it ever rolls around again, I am definitely grabbing one, because from what I have heard, seen, and looked at, that sucker is OP as balls. Compared to those little trash ones you fight as mobs, it's like a freakin Godzilla among lizards. Only this godzilla looks kind of like a beatle... o.O
If you didn't have room for that one extra P2W console that you wanted to have without compromising your defense or your other abilities, then the extra console slot will allow you to do so.
It's a bit different if it's a tactical console slot, as not having that 5th weapon boost will make your DPS weaker compared to other ships with the 5th weapon boosting console. There are no universal consoles that can boost your damage as high.
It's a lockbox ship, they break the normal rules.
The Defiant does not need a universal BOFF station so it can basically become a Fleet Escort with a better turn rate, 5 tac consoles and a cloaking device.
What the Fleet Defiant "needs" is the same thing the MVAE & HEC "need" - and that's more options for Tactical Ensign BOFF powers.
That better not be correct, because I am sitting here reading the description for the fleet defiant and it says that it DOES get a shield mod.
"The Fleet Tactical Escrot Retrofit has been specifically designed to support your Fleet. Fleet Starships are built to the highest standard and have increased Hull Hit Points, Shield Strength and an additional Console slot. It can be equipped with a Cloaking Device if you have one."
It should be a 10% increase like all the other Fleet ships.
The shield modifier should be 10% like all other fleet ships.. it says so right in the description. (i.e. .9 to .99 is 10%)
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Awhile back, I read that the ship was supposed to have 3 device slots. The wiki page still says it has 2. If it does come with 3, you can put in a shield battery and boost your shield resistances.
The Fleet Refits are all over the place. So far only my RSV seems to be correct, the Sabre has the wrong shield modifier (too high), as does the Nova on my Science character (also too high).
However I just checked and the Shipyard does state the Defiant has a 0.9 Shield Modifier, the text states it gets an increase but the actual ship details state 0.9 so it doesn't.
EPtS can be chained for 100% up time by running two copies. The cool down on one copy is 45 seconds with a 30 second shared cool down and a 15 second system cool down so you can actually run 4 EPtS with 100% uptime with no problems as long as there's no more than two copies of each version (so no more than 2x EPtS or 2x EPtW but 2 of each is fine).
Evidently I can't read. MWGacy above is correct, the shipyard actually states a 0.9 modifier; despite the text saying there's a shield increase there doesn't appear to be an increase to the shield mod but there is to the hull.
I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this
UPDATE: PWE ticket #120831-000260
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Alpha Strike: Cannon Rapid Fire III, Beam Overload III, Torpedo High Yield III
Crowd Control: Cannon Scatter Volley II, Beam Fire at Will I, Torpedo Spread II
And then I can maybe cook off Torpedo Spread I from my aft launcher if I time it right. But I can have all of that, plus Tactical Team I.
Then again, I'll probably use the fifth tactical console slot in the Fleet Defiant for a universal console. :P
I fly one in endgame constantly and pull (what I consider to be) very solid DPS. Also, pretty sure all of REDdit Alert would disagree w/this statement, the Defiant is 110% viable for endgame.